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If we make the ships more expensive, Starfleet will have fewer of them. Each individual weapon fit will be the same, but there will be fewer of them.
The job this is designed to do is kill D7 cruisers, something we know the canonical Constitution was definitely able to do, and this ship already exceeds it in both manoeuvrability and firepower. A significant cost increase which is not necessary for doing that job does not provide good value for money. Simply extolling the virtues of making a ship shinier does not change this.
- Location
- west
That extra ship is one more sector being patrolled on the border.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm thinking standard covariant is the way to go. Heavy covariant is less efficient in cost, power, and space, and I don't think the 21% boost to shield strength is worth it.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Pretty sure the argument is that past a point higher cost per ship = less total ships = less total weapons, and thus less (whatever) per ship = lower cost per ship = more total ships = more total weapons.
Adding (better) shields also increases the cost and thus reduces the total number f ships, and thus total number of weapons, even though it doesn't effect the number of weapons per ship.
Though that is not at all a straight line graph, it tends to wobble around based on the cost and effectiveness of different parts. And the actual number of ships difference is likely to be mid single digits or less unless far more of them are built than is usually the case for our designs.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Standard covariant kinda hurts next to just taking a large type 1, even the second tranche is slightly more expensive, but we do need to push shield technology somehow. I can't justify the price of the large covariant though.
[ ] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
edit: Changed vote because apparently the standard covariant is worse for future-proofing the ship than the heavy type 1, I genuinely hate this.
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
edit: Changed vote because apparently the standard covariant is worse for future-proofing the ship than the heavy type 1, I genuinely hate this.
[X] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
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It's a shame we don't know how much richer the Federation is compared to canon at this point, it'd make assessing batch numbers far easier.
Assuming 12 batch 1 Connie's OTL (and they're ~83.6 cost per ship) that Federation was spending 1,003.2 for the first batch
If we assume it's about 30% richer (could be more given Pharos') and the percentage of the shipbuilding budget is proportionally the same (is probably more given hostilities) then we'd have 1,304.16 to play with. That equates to 12.45 Constitutions with standard covariant in the first batch, compared to 13.41 Constitutions with heavy type one shields.
The usual disclaimers regarding my maths abilities and assumptions apply.
- Location
- west
We can just wait until the covariant shields become standard.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Honestly Starfleet is just Jackie Chan holding an unstable superweapon in one hand and a shipload of civilians in the other and yelling "I WANT NO TROUBLE!" at the top of its lungs.
... except that the D7 was always presented as a peer combatant and deadly threat to the Enterprise. I don't want a peer combatant. I want to overmatch the D7, So that when it comes to smash our stuff, it will be outgunned, outmaneuvered, and incapable of inflicting critical damage or even running away. I don't want to fight fair, I want to flat out murder every Klingon Battlecruiser that dares set a toe over the border, with the only way they can win being getting lucky.
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Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
While I can see the case for the Standard Covariant, upon further review, the Light Covariant seems difficult to justify. It doesn't over any performance advantage over the Type-1 Standard, and the latter is noticeably cheaper.
We either optimize for cost, in which case we should definitely go with the Type-1 Standard, or we commit to quality over quantity, in which case the price difference between standard and covariant will have less of an effect proportionally to the total cost.
We either optimize for cost, in which case we should definitely go with the Type-1 Standard, or we commit to quality over quantity, in which case the price difference between standard and covariant will have less of an effect proportionally to the total cost.
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[ ] Light Covariant [27 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 96) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 86.75]
I'd be going with the standard variant if not for aft weapons. With strong weapons and high speed there has to be serious cost-cutting somewhere. But at the same time I'm not comfortable delaying shield advancement even longer.
I'd be going with the standard variant if not for aft weapons. With strong weapons and high speed there has to be serious cost-cutting somewhere. But at the same time I'm not comfortable delaying shield advancement even longer.
- Location
- Australia
@Sayle
Sorry for pinging yet again, but I have questions about shields and refits.
Which would be possible/easier in the future, going from large standard to large covariant because of the redundancies already having space allocated, or going from standard covariant to large because of similar technology?
Sorry for pinging yet again, but I have questions about shields and refits.
Which would be possible/easier in the future, going from large standard to large covariant because of the redundancies already having space allocated, or going from standard covariant to large because of similar technology?
On the other hand, roughly 33% more Shield protection for ~10% more overall Cost/Hull is something of a bargain imo for the Standard CoV over the Light strength version.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We want Covarient if we can get it to improve shield tech. Two maxed defensive techs mean we can make our shields lighter while still getting medium sheielding. If we really are worried about budget we should go with the canon proven heavy
No, shields don't have any internal volume.
Yes, but only affecting the first build order in this case.
I'd assume shields would only be replaced like-for-like. So light-light, standard-standard, heavy-heavy.
Also I can confirm the Canon Constitution had a Build Cost of 84.
Duzzit
CSC 1st Multiversal Fleet Commander
- Location
- London, UK
[ ] Standard Covariant [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 104.75) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 93.75]
I think we really want to push shield tech forward even if this hurts a bit in terms of cost, its not -that- bad, given TTL Fed economy.
I think we really want to push shield tech forward even if this hurts a bit in terms of cost, its not -that- bad, given TTL Fed economy.
I think that the Newton/Archer build was called to be about 1200? And we can add in a good 2-300 for the Radiant build. I think 14-15 ships in first tranche.
- Location
- Somewhere and somewhen in time and space
I would say we go with either the standard covariant or the heavy covariant shields with this one.
We have the money and space for either one of them.
We have the money and space for either one of them.
ONE
Even in canon, there were 2x Federation-Klingon wars within 10 years of each other.
One started in 2257, the other in 2267.
And the timeline has changed.
Assuming that things are going to be all smooth sailing is asking to get got.
TWO
The numbers do not make sense for not going Covariant.
Quick math
TRANCHE 1
The cost delta between a ship with Type-1 Heavy Standards(97.25) and Type-1 Standard Covariant(104.75) is 7.5 points
Thats 7.7% increase.
Same shield strength.
The cost delta between a ship with Type-1 Heavy Standard(97.25) and Type-1 Heavy Covariant(116.75) is 19.5
Thats roughly 20% cost increase.
And +8 Shields
TRANCHE 2
The cost delta between a ship with Type-1 Heavy Standards(91.25) and Type-1 Standard Covariant(93.75) is 2.5 points
Thats a 2.7% cost increase.
The cost delta between a ship with Type-1 Heavy Standard(91.25) and Type-1 Heavy Covariant(103.25) is 19.5
Thats roughly 13% cost increase
And +8 Shields
=======
I can see an argument for going with Standard Covariant over Heavy Covariant.
I cannot see a financial case for taking the Type-1 Heavy.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Hmm, so we're 10% more expensive starting in the second Tranche compared to the canon Connie in the case of Standard Covariant, but significantly scarier in a fight, and we're dealing with a wealthier Federation, so we can probably eat that cost.
I think we've succeeded? As long as we don't break the budget with Large Covariant anyway, or the Klingons didn't get a future care package to make them rubberband to us.
I think we've succeeded? As long as we don't break the budget with Large Covariant anyway, or the Klingons didn't get a future care package to make them rubberband to us.
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- Location
- Australia
Thank you so much.
I'm absolutely voting heavy standard then. I want to be able to refit to heavy covariant in the future.
I'm not permanently gimping our best combatants shield potential for a minor advantage at great cost now, when the first refit can give a stronger ship for less cost later.
[ ] Type-1 Heavy [36 Shields] --- (Cost 79.25 -> 97.25) --- [Second Tranche: 73.25 -> 91.25]
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