- Location
- west
The biggest covariant I would want is the normal one and that's only because it's essentially a slightly more expensive standard large at a size smaller.
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
I think part of the thing here is the perception that not having a phaser will meaningfully impact the ship's cost; but it really is "do you want to add 6¢ or 3¢ to this 1.00$ purchase".
- Pronouns
- Fae/Faer
Damn, neck and neck the whole way; not mad about the extra coverage, definitely cautious about the cost and hope we don't skimp too hard on shields
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I really hope us having a "Wealthier Federation" isn't just words and we can afford to build enough of these to make a difference.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
ah a member of the "we can just dodge" team I see.
but yes, the Standard Covariant is likely to be the option with enough support to get picked. I'm still going to shill (and vote) for a Large Covariant and hang the cost, but the Standard Covariant is what I expect will have enough support to actually have a shot at winning.
In very distant third I suppose a Large size Type Two would be fine, even if I would be very dissatisfied.
Whohoo! Onto the shield debatte!
Whatever the canonical Constitution had in terms of shielding should be fine against the probable threats we're going to face. Again, if you think like an actual military doing procurement, you need the ability to think in terms of what the ship needs to do its job, not what is simply shiny or nice to have.
@Sayle, I believe someone said before that the original Connie used a normal Type-1 shield, but I don't think we know what size it was in the new system? Could you clarify that for us?
@Sayle, I believe someone said before that the original Connie used a normal Type-1 shield, but I don't think we know what size it was in the new system? Could you clarify that for us?
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
You say, like we haven't been arguing about it since the engine vote
Eh, I'm not worried about the cost of the rear weapons. ~6-7 extra Cost is small potatoes compared to what we already spent on this thing, between the engines and the rapid launcher prototype.
Or, and hear me out here, we can acknowledge that this ship is going to be fighting a very different kind of war, significantly sooner, and with far more riding on its success, than the canon Connie ever was, and give it better shields to go with its better speed and firepower, because that kind of capability is multiplaticive not additional.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Apparently, the big place where we're going to claw back Cost is on the shield section, because we went with the smallest hull size we possibly could have, and Shield Cost is based on the size of the hull you need to protect.
So even if we spend big, I don't think the expense is going to break the bank.
(I think the major mistake people are making is assuming we get to pick the Shield Size, when in fact, because we're a fairly small sized hull, we're going to be forced to pick the Small sized Shields)
So even if we spend big, I don't think the expense is going to break the bank.
(I think the major mistake people are making is assuming we get to pick the Shield Size, when in fact, because we're a fairly small sized hull, we're going to be forced to pick the Small sized Shields)
Then again, this isn't a relatively easy or quick piece of military equipment to refit/upgrade/replace, like a tank or fighter, where the timescale is days to weeks per unit. This is a borderline capital ship, and those take quite a while. See the canon Enterprise- her refit from TOS to TMP design and specs took 18 months. Having some forward thinking design elements to delay needed and time intensive refits as long as feasible is not a bad thing imo from a procurement perspective.
Kinda has to be.
The mistake I think a lot of people are making is that they forget that the D7 is a Klingon battlecruiser.
A capital ship, built by a civilization with a peer techbase.
You dont, and cant reasonably expect to build something that can kill a ship that size on the cheap.
We were always going to drop capital-ship money to build a capital-ship killer
EDIT
And for what its worth
[X] Aft Phaser, Aft Torpedo (Cost 73 -> 79.25) [Second Tranche: 67 -> 73.25]
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
At least our Connie should be able to shove D7s in the dumpster like they owed us money. If even the canonical Constitution was a solid match for one, and this is a significantly more impressive craft, if not to the same degree as the Kelvinverse Connie.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
According to the table given, shield size =/= hull size, but rather those are two different numbers/traits that interact (multiply?) to produce both cost and effective power. (Also, I'm uncertain of it's the size of the field, the size of the emitters, or something else that is represented by "shield size".)
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
I would think that that kind of thing would be more BoP/Skate size territory. This ship is pretty chunky for the era, if we are forced into a limited selection of shield sizes I would think that they would at least be standard size, if not large.
On the other hand, Sayle is known to base available options on thread discussion, so we might well find ourselves picking between large and standard sizes with smalls not even an option.
But that doesn't seem to be the way the mechanic was framed, so I'm not especially concerned about that.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I mean, Sayle has said "Your cost budget at the moment is deceptive, because your major savings are going to be when you get to Shields, because you went with the smallest hull size you could have out of the options you were given for the hullform."
I would assume a heavy type-1, passing on Covariant. Maybe getting a retrofit a couple decades in, since the Connie seems to have had little tweaks applied to it all the time.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
I think that's just a case of us having low overall mass? Shields cost per mass unit, and we're at the lowest possible mass from the options we were offered.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
This is likely in reference to shield cost scaling off of hull size in general, where being 20 ktons lighter than "par" is going to compound into significant savings vs what a 200 kton ship would be spending for the same thing.
Also this. the only things we've built of comparable scale are the Archer with its 100 meter sphere and the Kea which is practically a proto-connie itself, especially after it got the torpedoes added.
Based on the shield table, we save cost because the cost (and strength) of each emitter scales with tonnage. We're still looking at spending something around 20-30 cost on shields, though.