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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Starship Design Bureau Starfleet Design Bureau
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[X] 1: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)

I know Sci Labs won't win, but this is the Federation. If a ship can't science it's not getting built.

That being said, with the extra AM-Fuel it will let the ship go to wherever it needs to be and sit there building for however long it takes to get the job done. With lots of shuttles that could need a lot of AM-Fuel that without the expanded tanks would limit how long they can be ran for before Needing to go back to the core and refuel and pickup more stuff.

How I see this ship being used with the tanks winning, is having the ship carry most of the critical components to build up a colony or station alongside a fat stock of raw materials. Once it shows up on site it starts the core functionality and gets things like shields and weapons online while waiting for a cargo hauler to bring the rest of the advanced components and raw mats to finish the station/colony.

In fleet actions It would likely be carrying warp coils and mats for structural components needed to get ships moving back to the core, giving them enough AM-Fuel to get to the nearest base. As well as salvage work, using the Advanced Compute to break encryption to find enemy fleet information, like positions, counts, etc. Sure there not going to break the main computers encryption, but how much info is kept on padds for quick reference? or for briefing the captain? or just someone forgot to wipe it before combat started?
 
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
Seen a lot of chatter about colony work.
I cant imagine why Starfleet would want to use a not!military ship as a colony vessel on anything like a routine basis.

Colonies arent time sensitive nor does their construction involve classified tech.
Disaster response, building military starbases and essential infrastructure like subspace relays, moving time sensitive cargos and deploying sensor arrays, repairing military ships and general military support? Yes, sure.

Building civilian colonies?
You have civilian shipping for that, which can do it more cheaply and in bulk; and yes, while the Federation has moved beyond money, they still have some measure of value and expense.

You dont need an antimatter-fuelled Warp 7 starship for something a civilian starship burning hydrogen for fusion can do.
My two cents
 
[X] 1: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
uju32 said:
Seen a lot of chatter about colony work.
I cant imagine why Starfleet would want to use a not!military ship as a colony vessel on anything like a routine basis.

Colonies arent time sensitive nor does their construction involve classified tech.
Disaster response, building military starbases and essential infrastructure like subspace relays, moving time sensitive cargos and deploying sensor arrays, repairing military ships and general military support? Yes, sure.

Building civilian colonies?
You have civilian shipping for that, which can do it more cheaply and in bulk; and yes, while the Federation has moved beyond money, they still have some measure of value and expense.

You dont need an antimatter-fuelled Warp 7 starship for something a civilian starship burning hydrogen for fusion can do.
My two cents
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Wrong again, Uju.
Sayle said:
As it stands there are two major capability gaps that Starfleet is interested in closing in the near future. The first is for an Engineering Cruiser, one specifically designed to be able to go out and support colonies, other starships, and undertake construction work. This would necessarily involve a large shuttle complement and other support systems.
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uju32 said:
Seen a lot of chatter about colony work.
I cant imagine why Starfleet would want to use a not!military ship as a colony vessel on anything like a routine basis.

Colonies arent time sensitive nor does their construction involve classified tech.
Disaster response, building military starbases and essential infrastructure like subspace relays, moving time sensitive cargos and deploying sensor arrays, repairing military ships and general military support? Yes, sure.

Building civilian colonies?
You have civilian shipping for that, which can do it more cheaply and in bulk; and yes, while the Federation has moved beyond money, they still have some measure of value and expense.

You dont need an antimatter-fuelled Warp 7 starship for something a civilian starship burning hydrogen for fusion can do.
My two cents
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You don't NEED it no. But it sure would be nice. The Federation risks becoming overextended, not enough actual depth in place at our worlds that we've technically surveyed and established a presence on. Not only is this bad for our economy, those colonists may start quite reasonably asking themselves 'what has the Federation done for me lately?'

This ship answers both questions. It shows the flag and gives the real, tangible benefits of our utopian aspirations. It shows we aren't running society for the benefit of the core worlds, we're here for all life. It gets everyone self sufficient and productive, greatly strengthening the state as a whole. And it can, in the worst cases, help support the war effort directly even more than all of the above already does.
 
It's tempting to overreach, but I think we do have to focus down a little.

[X] 1: Science Labs (+4 Science)
The range buff is very attractive, but we should have refueling stations within range of all our colonies anyway. This cuts into efficiency, again I really want the extended range because it opens so many doors, but if a colony has a plague or solar trouble, this lab is absolutely critical, plus it gives the class minimal scientific ability dealing with space-based novel weirdness. There are many things a colony needs support with, basic science stuff is a critical one early one before they have their own labs and at least small ships and probes.

[X] 2: Geology (+2 Science)
We really do need some basic geological sciences for when we're servicing colonies. I just don't see what concrete advantage a double power computer is going to bring to engineering. In some cases it'll make space-CAD go faster, but mostly seems a waste of space. Geology is something a colony absolutely must have support with, though.

[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
Again, I want the geophysics lab. I think we'll regret not going all science, but I think it's also wise that we look after our crews, especially when the QM drops words like "long and repetitive".
 
KlavoHunter said:
Wrong again, Uju.
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Support colonies. Not establish colonies.

As I understand it, thats Disaster response. (Interstellar) infrastructure construction. Urgent cargo shipping.
Maybe orbital construction of stuff like bases and relays.
Not the planetary survey and setting up colonies some have suggested.

I'd be very surprised if ships of this class ever saw much, if any, service doing stuff like establishing colonies.
 
uju32 said:
Support colonies. Not establish colonies.

As I understand it, thats Disaster response. (Interstellar) infrastructure construction. Urgent cargo shipping.
Maybe orbital construction of stuff like bases and relays.
Not the planetary survey and setting up colonies some have suggested.

I'd be very surprised if ships of this class ever saw much, if any, service doing stuff like establishing colonies.
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That's the thing, if it was clear-cut that they wouldn't do setup and any colony we service already has a basic set of science labs, shuttle docks, probes and a basic shell or orbital sensor satellites we could go for range, the upgraded computer and crew recreation and not look back. But, if it is required, it's gonna hurt not having it.

I guess that's the point of this Quest, reading between the lines and extrapolating, but you never quite 100% know for sure.
 
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[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
Do you know the Marvel Method of comic book writing? The writer describes a vague plot to the artist of what is supposed to happen in the issue, telling them what the key points that need to happen are. Then the artist actually draws the book, deciding what happens on each individual page, the actions characters take, and the details of the story described by the visuals. Then the writer comes back in and does what he can with the story the artist gave him, writing dialogue for the characters to show what they're actually thinking and saying.

I sort of think this is the Marvel Method of starship design. Starfleet gives us some vague requirements, a basic "this is the sort of thing the ship would probably do". Then we design the ship, and they figure out how they're actually going to use it. This may end up differing quite a lot from how they thought they might use the ship they initially ordered.
 
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Geology (+2 Science)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
I could imagine Halleys helping to transition from small colonies into something that can support really sizeable populations. Given enough time civilian growth could manage but if central planners really want to push growth they use these ships to speed things up.

If planners want to increase the number of locations and quantity of strategic resources extracted, greatly expand certain manufacturing in a region, or do some large infrastructure projects then waiting for civilian colony growth might be too slow. Especially when a lot of those goals might be quicker to do on more established colonies (if you weren't looking to help expand and solidify the federation's hold on territory). They could also be looking to develop a population base that'd be large enough to encourage trade, enable recruitment and research, or take advantage of unusual local conditions.

In larger colonies starfleet specific manufacturing capabilities or facilities could also be something these ships create. Use the ship to haul the state of the art stuff while using local production for the rest to enable really large projects. It wouldn't be unusual for Starfleet to establish labs and research centers to study odd phenomena that colonists uncovered or didn't have the resources to really dig into. When Starfleet sees potential they assign some scientists, encourage civilian researchers to move out there, and build a bunch of facilities with specialized equipment to support it.
 
VicSage said:
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)

Okay, but hear me out. What if Sikorsky Skycrane?
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That is basically a Mule, in terms of general aeaesthetic. The thing is basically a tugboat; Small shuttlebay with like, 2-3 shuttles, two impulse engines, the deflector and the warp core (a Stonking great fusion reactor, in this case; no antimatter in the civilian ships!) with some crew quarters and rec space crammed into the rest of it.
 
uju32 said:
Support colonies. Not establish colonies.

As I understand it, thats Disaster response. (Interstellar) infrastructure construction. Urgent cargo shipping.
Maybe orbital construction of stuff like bases and relays.
Not the planetary survey and setting up colonies some have suggested.

I'd be very surprised if ships of this class ever saw much, if any, service doing stuff like establishing colonies.
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It may not be starting the colony, but when you need to haul out that expensive new manufacturing line and get everything set up properly, would you rather have a generic bulk hauler drop it off and hope everything works right? Or would you rather have Starfleet send engineers out to set it up, show you some tips and tricks to use it well, and ensure everything will work, is up to code, and will last?

And how many colonies CAN setup orbital infrastructure? That requires specialty knowledge and equipment that I highly doubt colonies are going to have for a long time. Even setting up a basic orbital trade hub makes raiding harder, and expanding the infrastructure much easier.

Its not about doing basic things like setting up prefabs or planting fields. Its about doing things that normal civilian workers don't have the knowledge or training to do well.
 
Want to host a diplomatic summit or setup a facility for an alien embassy on a federation planet closest to their borders? Send one of these ships since Starfleet has the most experience dealing with unusual sensibilities, materials, and requirements.
 
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)
 
[X] 1: Antimatter Storage (+70ly Operating Range)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+2 Science, Advanced Computing)
[X] 3: Recreational Spaces (Crew Comfort)

Something people don't seem to be mentioning is that the increased antimatter storage doesn't just increase our range at Efficient Cruise, it also allows us to travel further with Max Cruise, we could probably get something close to our original 70 ly range at Warp 6.2 instead of 5.2. Sure it burns way more antimatter but a refuel is a trip to a Pharos station away. That's an almost 70% increase in the Halley's effective speed as long as it's operating in an area with Pharos stations deployed which should be a considerable portion of the Federation interior.
 
DragoonPreston said:
It may not be starting the colony, but when you need to haul out that expensive new manufacturing line and get everything set up properly, would you rather have a generic bulk hauler drop it off and hope everything works right? Or would you rather have Starfleet send engineers out to set it up, show you some tips and tricks to use it well, and ensure everything will work, is up to code, and will last?

And how many colonies CAN setup orbital infrastructure? That requires specialty knowledge and equipment that I highly doubt colonies are going to have for a long time. Even setting up a basic orbital trade hub makes raiding harder, and expanding the infrastructure much easier.

Its not about doing basic things like setting up prefabs or planting fields. Its about doing things that normal civilian workers don't have the knowledge or training to do well.
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1) Yes. Thats what civilian shipping is supposed to be for: bulk shipping at sustainable rates.
If its something sensitive, or which needs to be there yesterday, then you send Starfleet. But a routine manufacturing line should not, rate that kind of service besides as a PR exercise.


2) If you have basic shuttles, basic orbital infrastructure like satellites is easy. Uni students build cube sats IRL.
Its not like you send randos out as first wave colonists; they kinda have to have relevant skills to help the colony get on its feet. Your HR manager is not all that useful in a new colony.


3)Thats why civilian colony ships are supposed to exist.
Memory Alpha appears to state that there are some in Starfleet as well for some reason.

If you're dropping off enough people to establish a sustainable colony, you're presumably bringing in an entire set of prefab equipment for the things they need onsite.

You're certainly not doing stuff like setting up manufacturing in a system thats got a smaller colonist population than a major RL city; you need either robust local extractive industry and all the support that requires, or regular imports of raw materials from outside the system as well as outbound shipping in order to sustain local manufacturing.
 
Sayle said:
Section 31 is a rogue division that operates in cells, agents are individually recruited by other agents, and the only reason they still exist is that so long as they aren't stunningly outrageous Starfleet Intelligence doesn't try to obliterate them as they Sovereign Citizen their way through the galaxy. This idea of them being an agency that has it's own minefielded headquarters, personal jet-black commbadges or a fleet of ships is just profoundly fucking dumb.

DS9 basically introduced them as amoral extremists with collaborators in high places, and then people who didn't understand Star Trek wrote Discovery and they've been written into canon as some sort of official black-ops division because lazy writers like Jack Bauer-style extremists who 'do what needs to be done'.
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Is it possible that the reason Starfleet Intelligence keeps Section 31 around is so they have a deniable way of getting things done without dirtying their hands? Say they need some facility destroyed or someone assassinated or they need to spy on someone who's nominally an ally to steal some piece of data, they call Section 31 through backchannels and tell them what they need done and provide what support they can which can't be in any way traced back to Starfleet Intelligence. If it succeeds, hurray, if it fails and there's blowback things blow up in Section 31's face, not Starfleet Intelligence's. If it's revealed Federation citizens did it disavow them, say they aren't part of Starfleet Intelligence, that they did this on their own, the Federation apologizes but it can't be held responsible for the actions of a few rogue citizens, hang them out to dry and say that the offended polity can punish them as they see fit. And Section 31 being composed of patriotic extremists see this risk as a cost of doing business, an acceptable price they pay for protecting the Federation they are loyal to by any means necessary. And for every cell that gets burned and dissolves after being discovered there's another out there recruiting new like-minded individuals into the conspiracy and ready to perform any mission Starfleet Intelligence can't do but needs done.
 
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