Scaling Up

[vladspellbinder]

And yet Blasto will receive one if anyone ever confirms that he makes self-replicating. Critters...

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Because by being able to reproduce they could lead to ecological destruction which kills thousands if not millions or more of people.
Depending on what they eat and what sort of waste they produce and how hard they are to control or kill.

It's also not so much a matter of scale, making something small that can split in two and regrow to its starting size and all it does is absorb air and absorb carbon and emit cleaner air is a precedent that he CAN and WILL make things that can continue on without him.

Another factor to keep in mind is there is a Zone for what is called "The Machine Army". We don';t get much info about it in canon but that really sounds like someone made some sort of machine that could build either copies of itself or another machine and it got out of control and that's why they now have a very hard "nothing Tinker made that can reproduce" rule in place.

One person can only do so much damage at any one time, sure that can be A LOT of damage but if someone makes something that can then make twice as many of itself which repeats you get into some serious problems really fast.

 

[Leechblade]

Admittedly what Blasto is capable of is way different than just the dragons repopulating (which will take centuries at minimum).

But are guys like the bastard behind the Canary 'trial' going to think that?

 

[Segev]

Admittedly what Blasto is capable of is way different than just the dragons repopulating (which will take centuries at minimum).

But are guys like the bastard behind the Canary 'trial' going to think that?

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Dragons repopulating are no more or less "self-replicating" than humans, birds, or cows. The fear with Blasto is more akin to a grey goo or turbovirus scenario. Where he makes one thing that can endlessly and QUICKLY reporduce. Like, makes tribbles look slow about it. It's just easier to draw the line at ANY self-replication, because that way they don't have to judge whether THIS PARTICULAR creature is doing it "too much."

Something from the ancient editions : A god (demi-, lesser or greater) must be on its home plane in order to be destroyed permanently.

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This rule always bothered me. I get what it's going for: hunt them down to their home plane or you're out of luck. But it sets up a situation where the god in question should never be found on their home plane. Not willingly. You should be seeking Bahamut in Bitopia or Mechanus, not the Seven Heavens, because actually being in the Seven Heavens renders him vulnerable to death.

Doing it more like Wreck-It Ralph does and adding godly avatars would be more likely to result in what is wanted. Gods ONLY respawn if killed on their home plane. There, they're invincible (or close to it). If you meet them off their home plane, it's all but certainly an Avatar, because they aren't exposing themselves to danger when they don't need to.

 

[Just A Dude]

Admittedly what Blasto is capable of is way different than just the dragons repopulating (which will take centuries at minimum).

But are guys like the bastard behind the Canary 'trial' going to think that?

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They had a blatant anti-Master agenda and went after Paige because she was dumb enough to trust in the courts to give her a fair trial. Any actually dangerous Master wouldn't have let themselves get caught.

Likewise, Dragons are fully capable of wrecking shit on a grand scale. Trying to "make an example of them" is going to end in explosions and lightning.

 

[Leechblade]

They had a blatant anti-Master agenda and went after Paige because she was dumb enough to trust in the courts to give her a fair trial. Any actually dangerous Master wouldn't have let themselves get caught.

Likewise, Dragons are fully capable of wrecking shit on a grand scale. Trying to "make an example of them" is going to end in explosions and lightning.

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I realize that any attempt to paint Taylor and the Dragons as a threat to humanity will end badly for the idiots who came up with it.

However Blue on Blue incidents are damned unpleasant.

 

[Jacen1]

This rule always bothered me. I get what it's going for: hunt them down to their home plane or you're out of luck. But it sets up a situation where the god in question should never be found on their home plane. Not willingly. You should be seeking Bahamut in Bitopia or Mechanus, not the Seven Heavens, because actually being in the Seven Heavens renders him vulnerable to death.

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That's the thing; for The Powers, they can ONLY be found in their Home Planes; anywhere else, there will be an Avatar instead. The only time a Power can leave their Home Plane (as opposed to sending an Avatar) is when the two planes are joined; this occurs when two planes are merged together. This includes attempts at conquest or when Pantheons join together. This is rare, mostly because most Powers have treaties in place to prevent the consequences of an all out war between them, and anyone that breaks the treaties will be dogpiled by everyone else. The exception is the Blood War, and even there the Powers generally do not engage in battle with each other; instead, it's their minions that battle it out, keeping said minions from trying to ascend to the status of Powers in their own right and challenging the existing Powers.

As to the whole "if it has a character sheet, a player can kill it" thing, just remember it's the Avatars that have Character Sheets; the Powers get a brief description of what they do for their worshipers and their philosophy, and thus do not count as being vulnerable to Player Actions. If a Power attempts to make the Prime Material their Home Plane, then the Players would be better served trying to disrupt the merger, not attacking the Power.

 

[Ravenwood240]

As to the whole "if it has a character sheet, a player can kill it" thing, just remember it's the Avatars that have Character Sheets; the Powers get a brief description of what they do for their worshipers and their philosophy, and thus do not count as being vulnerable to Player Actions. If a Power attempts to make the Prime Material their Home Plane, then the Players would be better served trying to disrupt the merger, not attacking the Power.

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There are at least two books I can name off the top of my head that have character sheets for Deities, that being Deities and demigods and the Faerun version, Deities of Faerun, I believe.

There's even a step by step process for creating your own deity, as well as the two or three ways to ascend to deityhood.

 

[Wyvern]

Yeah, the Deities and Demigods book for 3rd edition has some serious flaws; the gods it provides stats for are simultaneously overpowered (with abilities like "knows of any event related to their portfolio years before it happens") and underpowered (with hit points and other statistics that a mortal "epic" character could match or exceed). Then again, the entirety of third edition epic rules are just a mess - I refuse to use them in games I run.

 

[Ravenwood240]

3.0 was screwy in many ways, but the epic seeds for custom spells are awesome, and properly used by GM and players, the Epic stuff can be a great deal of fun.

Of course, our GM doesn't use any premade characters; he takes the base character and builds a sheet for them.

We once spent a week building an epic level character for an intergalactic arena fighter. Any book, any creature base, anything you wanted to make. 50 levels of fun.

Winner got three wishes from the GM with no limits or gm foolery.

My brother won with a half silver dragon half Eldritch Giant monk of the long death.
Bastard.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Something from the ancient editions : A god (demi-, lesser or greater) must be on its home plane in order to be destroyed permanently.
(I might be mistaken about Demi-gods.)

Scion would have to find a way to get to the Seven Heavens of Mt. Celestia, lure Bahamut there and kill him, then repeat the process in The Nine Hells with Tiamat.

Otherwise, they'd just be going around popping those avatars until someone gets bored.

It's not likely to happen. While entities have a lot of knowledge, they're not particularly creative, and B&T are likely to see the attempt coming from a long way off. After all, they've been dealing with things like that for literally eons.

As it stands, The End®™ of the story is already outlined. I'm hoping it'll be a surprise, but I've been informed that I have all the subtlety of a nuclear weapon...

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I could just see Sion showing up in Mt. Celestia only to discover nobody there and everything stripped down to the bare dirt, with only a crude wooden sign left behind that read Gone fishin', back next eon in Hlal's distinctive handwriting.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Admittedly what Blasto is capable of is way different than just the dragons repopulating (which will take centuries at minimum).

But are guys like the bastard behind the Canary 'trial' going to think that?

Click to shrink...

On the niche topic of repopulating dragons I have a relevant funny story from a World of Darkness MUSH.

It was a fairly permissive game that allowed many fan splats, one of which were dragons that spent most of their time masquerading in human shape to hide from paradox. The character I played at the time, a rather nerdy mage, had the following conversation upon discovering his second dragon in a week, a male:

Mage: "Wait, seriously? I thought you guys were extinct!"

Dragon: "Only almost."

Mage: "You're the second one I've met! I need to introduce you to the other one."

Dragon, suspicious: "Why?"

Mage: "She's a she!"

Dragon: "...and?"

Mage: "How else do you save an endangered species? We need to organize a breeding program!"

Dragon, at a loss for words: "..."

Mage: "Say, do dragons take a really long time to grow up? I'd better get you two started right away. Why don't I take you over there now and introduce you? I'll get my coat."

Dragon: "...please do not. And I suggest you do not mention the words 'breeding program' to another of our kind. Ever. I will be leaving now."

Mage, dejected: "Awww. Are you sure?"

Dragon: "YES."

 

[DestinyPlayer]

On the niche topic of repopulating dragons I have a relevant funny story from a World of Darkness MUSH.

It was a fairly permissive game that allowed many fan splats, one of which were dragons that spent most of their time masquerading in human shape to hide from paradox. The character I played at the time, a rather nerdy mage, had the following conversation upon discovering his second dragon in a week, a male:

Mage: "Wait, seriously? I thought you guys were extinct!"

Dragon: "Only almost."

Mage: "You're the second one I've met! I need to introduce you to the other one."

Dragon, suspiciously: "Why?"

Mage: "She's a she!"

Dragon: "...and?"

Mage: "How else do you save an endangered species? We need to organize a breeding program!"

Dragon, at a loss for words: "..."

Mage: "Say, do dragons take a really long time to grow up? I'd better get you two started right away. Why don't I take you over there now and introduce you? I'll get my coat."

Dragon: "...please do not. And I suggest you do not mention the words 'breeding program' to another of our kind. Ever. I will be leaving now."

Mage: "Awww. Are you sure?"

Dragon: "YES."

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Is it the one where Dragons couldn't breed true, the only way to become one was to either consume one's heart or get the power bestowed upon you, and Dragons were more "Dreams of Rulers manifest" than actual dragons?

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Is it the one where Dragons couldn't breed true, the only way to become one was to either consume one's heart or get the power bestowed upon you, and Dragons were more "Dreams of Rulers manifest" than actual dragons?

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Not sure, never played a dragon. I was under the impression they were an actual species of Bygone, some of whom adapted by learning to shapeshift and hide among humans to avoid paradox/reduce quintessence needs. I remember they could transform into actual giant fire breathing lizards when they wanted to, and they had very long inhuman names that sounded appropriately dragon-ey.

 

[PossiblyEnos]

On the niche topic of repopulating dragons I have a relevant funny story from a World of Darkness MUSH.

It was a fairly permissive game that allowed many fan splats, one of which were dragons that spent most of their time masquerading in human shape to hide from paradox. The character I played at the time, a rather nerdy mage, had the following conversation upon discovering his second dragon in a week, a male:

Mage: "Wait, seriously? I thought you guys were extinct!"

Dragon: "Only almost."

Mage: "You're the second one I've met! I need to introduce you to the other one."

Dragon, suspiciously: "Why?"

Mage: "She's a she!"

Dragon: "...and?"

Mage: "How else do you save an endangered species? We need to organize a breeding program!"

Dragon, at a loss for words: "..."

Mage: "Say, do dragons take a really long time to grow up? I'd better get you two started right away. Why don't I take you over there now and introduce you? I'll get my coat."

Dragon: "...please do not. And I suggest you do not mention the words 'breeding program' to another of our kind. Ever. I will be leaving now."

Mage, dejected: "Awww. Are you sure?"

Dragon: "YES."

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"Okay then, project in-vitro fertilisation is a-go."

 

[Sheylenna]

They had a blatant anti-Master agenda and went after Paige because she was dumb enough to trust in the courts to give her a fair trial. Any actually dangerous Master wouldn't have let themselves get caught.

Likewise, Dragons are fully capable of wrecking shit on a grand scale. Trying to "make an example of them" is going to end in explosions and lightning.

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There is also the fact that if someone tries to make an example out of Taylor she may just equate it to bullying on a larger scale and now that she has the power to make a difference she is not going to go meekly into the night. And I'm not sure the Birdcage is strong enough to hold a Dragon, and since Dragons can cross dimensions if it comes to that the Birdcage probably can't hold her anyway.

 

[Segev]

There is also the fact that if someone tries to make an example out of Taylor she may just equate it to bullying on a larger scale and now that she has the power to make a difference she is not going to go meekly into the night. And I'm not sure the Birdcage is strong enough to hold a Dragon, and since Dragons can cross dimensions if it comes to that the Birdcage probably can't hold her anyway.

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Certainly can't. The only reason Glastig Uaine is in there is because she is voluntarily waiting 100 years for a party that somebody promised her. She's got a teleportation power she could use to leave any time she chose. Dragons can absolutely learn teleport.

 

[Leechblade]

Certainly can't. The only reason Glastig Uaine is in there is because she is voluntarily waiting 100 years for a party that somebody promised her. She's got a teleportation power she could use to leave any time she chose. Dragons can absolutely learn teleport.

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Like I said. Messing with this version of Taylor is a Mythically Bad Idea but I am hoping it won't happen as it wastes time and word count better spent on actual plot and/or fluffy cuddle scenes.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Certainly can't. The only reason Glastig Uaine is in there is because she is voluntarily waiting 100 years for a party that somebody promised her. She's got a teleportation power she could use to leave any time she chose. Dragons can absolutely learn teleport.

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I thought teleport in and out of the birdcage didn't work because of spatial shenanigans?

 

[Leechblade]

I thought teleport in and out of the birdcage didn't work because of spatial shenanigans?

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That's fanon. Teleportation is how they get prisoners in there according to the wiki.

 

[Jacen1]

On the niche topic of repopulating dragons I have a relevant funny story from a World of Darkness MUSH.

It was a fairly permissive game that allowed many fan splats, one of which were dragons that spent most of their time masquerading in human shape to hide from paradox. The character I played at the time, a rather nerdy mage, had the following conversation upon discovering his second dragon in a week, a male:

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Funny thing, WoD had rules for playing Dragons, no strings attached and to issues with Paradox.

All you had to do was be creative when working up your Weregator....

 

[TaliesinSkye]

That's fanon. Teleportation is how they get prisoners in there according to the wiki.

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Really? Huh. Been too long since I've read the series way back when it was being written, hard to keep track of what's fanon and not now.

In any event you'd think there'd be a villain teleporter who'd get paid enough to rescue people at some point. The fanon might make more sense.

 

[Leechblade]

Really? Huh. Been too long since I've read the series way back when it was being written, hard to keep track of what's fanon and not now.

In any event you'd think there'd be a villain teleporter who'd get paid enough to rescue people at some point. The fanon might make more sense.

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It's possible that they shut down the interdiction field when moving supplies and inmates in there...

 

[Segev]

Really? Huh. Been too long since I've read the series way back when it was being written, hard to keep track of what's fanon and not now.

In any event you'd think there'd be a villain teleporter who'd get paid enough to rescue people at some point. The fanon might make more sense.

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There'd have to be a teleporter with range and capability to go somewhere he had never seen, didn't know the coordinates of, and wasn't familiar with.

I imagine that any teleporter who got captured wouldn't be sentenced to the Birdcage without being absolutely certain his teleportation could be shut down. I mean, if it oculdn't be, how'd you hold him in the first place?

 

[TaliesinSkye]

There'd have to be a teleporter with range and capability to go somewhere he had never seen, didn't know the coordinates of, and wasn't familiar with.

I imagine that any teleporter who got captured wouldn't be sentenced to the Birdcage without being absolutely certain his teleportation could be shut down. I mean, if it oculdn't be, how'd you hold him in the first place?

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Most likely power for getting people out would probably be someone who could teleport to someone else like Mouse Protector, or someone who could teleport someone else to them.

 

[Itsune]

After a certain point a Dragon's Size becomes irrelevant. Some young adult dragons are the size of mountain ranges, Some Ancient Wyrms are the size of a humming bird. It all becomes a Moot point when some young girl can stand before you, and say;
"Lord of Light and Darkness grant the boundless energy to defeat my foe in a single moment, EXPLOSION!"
And then every thing goes "Pink!"...