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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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We have used Adamant in the armor we gave to the king correct? If so that may have put Bara onto the hint of rune metal which if she does well in discovering I would like to recruit her into the brotherhood, having a 2nd runelord in the north that is part of the brotherhood would be great.

3 turns left before the campaign, last turn before sounds like we want to max out a weapon so 2 turns for other production and research.
 
If we make him a weapon it is just paying him in advance and inadvertently putting him further into our debt. Of course with the new weapon he would be in a better position to pay us back.
Doesn't Dwarf culture look down on that? The armor and weapons were commissioned by/for Otrek and Gloin. Snorri just made a weapon that exceeded their expectations rather ridiculously.
 
We could, but I don't see the point? The moment Gloin's rolls stop being ass, it will work out fine, and if they keep being ass it won't help. So I'm just like kinda eh on the whole prospect.
This. Right now the hard part is finding the bastard. Once they find it it's as good as dead with both Otrek and Gloin there. There's simply nothing to really contribute to on our part.
 
I understand why some people want to get more apprentices but for me I really want these two to be our last two because of both character bloat at this point and I just feel that the apprentice action is getting tedious in my opinion.
 
[] Plan anti dragon spear well still rearming the hold.
-[] [Simple] Arm them, Literally: [Cost: (6 +3 -2) =7 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. You've been intermittently making prosthetic arms and legs for the Karak's veterans in the decades since the siege. Yet more remain. Your work has been sporadic and otherwise unorganized fashion. For many this is entirely within the remit and expectations of most Runesmiths. However you are not most dwarfs, by Grungni's beard you are a Runelord and you should be able to do more than that. Most of the work will be in designing a system that lets you find the dwarfs who need replacement limbs, work to find the best possible product for them, then go about making the limbs in question. 2 Actions + 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[] Clerical Aid: [Cost: 30 Favour] Gain 3 progress. None are as experienced, and therefore respected, in the art of healing dwarfs than the Clergy and adherents of Valaya. See if they'd be interested in coming to an arrangement with you. In essence you'd be leveraging both the Cult's status and reach to find those who may be looking for a replacement limb, and use their trusted position and administrative experience to speed up the entire process of organizing the entire ordeal. Giving you more time to actually work with the clients and make the limbs in question, and giving them another way to fulfill one of Valaya's oldest strictures.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 2: [Cost: (8 -7) =1 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. You can now see the rough path that Master Yorri took to get to the Rune of Prosthesis, you think at least. A bit more retracing of his steps perhaps, but figuring out what method he used to create a Rune so much more sophisticated than the regular Rune of Waking should provide a great deal of information, and a few more Runes, to work with. More than that, you wonder if there was even a possibility that you could induce actual sensation in the limbs, or even something as difficult or sight or hearing. 1 Action.
-[ ] [Difficult] Write In anti dragon spear/Javelin for the prince Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional Rune Ingredients here. You've had an idea! This is the template for write in item request! Please put down the name, description and type of equipment/item you want made. Pt 2 of the item will cost differently depending on the number of items and potentially the size of it as well. A base guideline for Pt. 2 costs will be at the bottom of the post.
- [ ] Choose: choose three runes you want on the weapon.
--[] grudge (dragons), dragon Slayer and Flight master rune.
- [ ] Function: Give a function or effect for the item in question and the type of equipment. (I will do my best to fulfill the desired effect, if impossible or requiring materials I will alert you. I will roll to see if you find a new combo)
--[] killing dragons preferably from a distance.
--[]one action plus grudge

This dragon is making us look bad and a prince can have different weapons for different situations.
 
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[ ] Plan Healing for the Dawi
-[] [Simple] Arm them, Literally: [Cost: (6 +3 -2) =7 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. You've been intermittently making prosthetic arms and legs for the Karak's veterans in the decades since the siege. Yet more remain. Your work has been sporadic and otherwise unorganized fashion. For many this is entirely within the remit and expectations of most Runesmiths. However you are not most dwarfs, by Grungni's beard you are a Runelord and you should be able to do more than that. Most of the work will be in designing a system that lets you find the dwarfs who need replacement limbs, work to find the best possible product for them, then go about making the limbs in question. 2 Apprentice Actions.
-[] Spring Water: [Cost: (4 -2) =2 actions] Student of the Odd will proc and Soul of the Earth will proc. The Springs of Valaya, which is certainly less offensive than calling them her "vents", is a source of rejuvenating water useful for the recuperation of injured dwarfs. They're fine with you taking samples to study to see if they're good for a potential Rune. Easier to just grab a barrel and bring it to the temple there instead of digging through muck and filtering it you suppose. 3 actions
--[] Church Commission: [Cost: +3 actions to cost] Student of the Odd will proc. The Clergy of Valaya is very interested in understanding how useful the water is on its own. They've confirmed the basics, that it's safe for dwarfs to use, it works etc, but they're far too busy with other tasks and duties in the wake of reconstruction and managing the wounded from the campaign to devote time towards it. They're willing to reimburse you for the time to figure it out yourself.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 2: [Cost: (8 -7) =1 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. You can now see the rough path that Master Yorri took to get to the Rune of Prosthesis, you think at least. A bit more retracing of his steps perhaps, but figuring out what method he used to create a Rune so much more sophisticated than the regular Rune of Waking should provide a great deal of information, and a few more Runes, to work with. More than that, you wonder if there was even a possibility that you could induce actual sensation in the limbs, or even something as difficult or sight or hearing. 1 Action.

Finish off 2 pieces of research then turn 29 spend 4 actions on arm them literally to really overflow (2 apprentince actions gets us to the max the apprentinces can do), turn 30 spend 4 actions on weapon (pt1 and pt2 can be combined) or we can put 1 action on design turn 29.

I understand why some people want to get more apprentices but for me I really want these two to be our last two because of both character bloat at this point and I just feel that the apprentice action is getting tedious in my opinion.
My own view is that unless someone like Snerra comes along I do not favor adding apprentinces during the middle of the current ones. Plus that would require us to burn an action while we need them to get other work done. Instead when the current apprentices finish, wait a few turns then see if we cant find 3.
 
I have two suggestions for a grudge weapon, should we decide to make one:

Axe Of The Grudgening: Master Grimnir, Gazul, Grudges

The Dragonkilling Javelin: Master Flight, Cleaving, Dragonslaying

We could, but I don't see the point? The moment Gloin's rolls stop being ass, it will work out fine, and if they keep being ass it won't help. So I'm just like kinda eh on the whole prospect.

I just kinda want to leave it to him, its' not a problem that actually needs our help to resolve? It's just absolutely shite dice and what we can give is like at max a bonus of +15.
I'm a little leery of Snorri doing absolutely nothing to avenge the grudge. It just feels like a mistake.
 
Alternate plan thoughts I figured might interest people a bit if they don't want to go full hog on Arm Them.

[] Plan A Re-armed Hold Once More, With Exploring!
[ ] Odd Places 7/10: [Cost: 1 action] Can be taken multiple times., roll for usefulness. Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. 1 Action
-[] [Simple] Arm them, Literally: [Cost: (6 +3 -2) =7 actions] Productivity Like No Other will proc. You've been intermittently making prosthetic arms and legs for the Karak's veterans in the decades since the siege. Yet more remain. Your work has been sporadic and otherwise unorganized fashion. For many this is entirely within the remit and expectations of most Runesmiths. However you are not most dwarfs, by Grungni's beard you are a Runelord and you should be able to do more than that. Most of the work will be in designing a system that lets you find the dwarfs who need replacement limbs, work to find the best possible product for them, then go about making the limbs in question. 2 Actions + 2 Apprentice Actions.
--[] Clerical Aid: [Cost: 30 Favour] Gain 3 progress. None are as experienced, and therefore respected, in the art of healing dwarfs than the Clergy and adherents of Valaya. See if they'd be interested in coming to an arrangement with you. In essence you'd be leveraging both the Cult's status and reach to find those who may be looking for a replacement limb, and use their trusted position and administrative experience to speed up the entire process of organizing the entire ordeal. Giving you more time to actually work with the clients and make the limbs in question, and giving them another way to fulfill one of Valaya's oldest strictures.
-[] The Mind of Things Pt. 2: [Cost: (8 -7) =1 actions] Student of the Odd will proc. You can now see the rough path that Master Yorri took to get to the Rune of Prosthesis, you think at least. A bit more retracing of his steps perhaps, but figuring out what method he used to create a Rune so much more sophisticated than the regular Rune of Waking should provide a great deal of information, and a few more Runes, to work with. More than that, you wonder if there was even a possibility that you could induce actual sensation in the limbs, or even something as difficult or sight or hearing. 1 Action.

Finishes Arm Them with one overflow, and Mind of Things, and makes progress on Odd Places which we haven't done in a good century or so. I remember some folks being interested in it still and it is pretty close to done. And its not like anything out there can really harm Snorri in Barak Azamar, and besides he goes out on these in some secrecy so it means that the only folks who get to see it are Karstah and Nain.

What about starting the Princely Panoply?
I'd be interested, gets in the way of weapon prep and or Spring Water research for Karag Dum though. Me personally I don't want to be kicking around in that campaign with T2 weapons its just kinda eh.


I have two suggestions for a grudge weapon, should we decide to make one:

Axe Of The Grudgening: Master Grimnir, Gazul, Grudges

The Dragonkilling Javelin: Master Flight, Cleaving, Dragonslaying


I'm a little leery of Snorri doing absolutely nothing to avenge the grudge. It just feels like a mistake.
Arm Them?

Like, its going to put people who share the Grudge, back onto the field. That's enough in my view. It's a Hold Wide Grudge, but its Gloin's specifically and not Snorri's.
 
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Doesn't Dwarf culture look down on that? The armor and weapons were commissioned by/for Otrek and Gloin. Snorri just made a weapon that exceeded their expectations rather ridiculously.
Maybe if he wasn't working on our request. We are just helping him get it done. If he really doesn't like it he can give the anti dragon spear back after.
 
My own view is that unless someone like Snerra comes along I do not favor adding apprentinces during the middle of the current ones. Plus that would require us to burn an action while we need them to get other work done. Instead when the current apprentices finish, wait a few turns then see if we cant find 3.
Eh if we find someone like Snerra again sure such talent shouldn't go to waste. But at this point I firmly believe we have done more then enough apprentice wise and I don't want to take any for the next several centuries or longer.
 
Maybe if he wasn't working on our request. We are just helping him get it done. If he really doesn't like it he can give the anti dragon spear back after.
Give it back, say he doesn't like it, to literally the person who put his entire family on the throne and who is the most exalted dwarf in the north? I don't think he'd even attempt it.
 
Eh if we find someone like Snerra again sure such talent shouldn't go to waste. But at this point I firmly believe we have done more then enough apprentice wise and I don't want to take any for the next several centuries or longer.
I do like the additional view point they add, they come from a much younger stand point. But I do get the worry that we may lose their character if we just pump them out to the point that we may as well call them apprentice #20. I do favor taking breaks (maybe 5 turns or so) between groups.
 
That sounds like very poor form, basically forcing a weapon on the Prince that he may not actually want.

And on a similar note, why a spear? If we're going to make a proper Grudge-avenging weapon (TBH, I'd rather just do a Campaign action), why not have it be an axe like he's used to wielding? I don't think there's ever been a mention of WHF Dwarfs using spears.
 
I do like the additional view point they add, they come from a much younger stand point. But I do get the worry that we may lose their character if we just pump them out to the point that we may as well call them apprentice #20. I do favor taking breaks (maybe 5 turns or so) between groups.
I do enjoy there additional view as well heck Dolgi's my favorite! I just feel we're entering the point where it's more and more character bloat at this point and thus detracts from the quest and doesn't add on. That's why I want a long term hold on anymore apprentices, I at least personally won't vote for anymore students till at least all of our current students have passed on. The only exception to this is if we find a student on Snerra level cause I would consider it a crime to let that much potential go too waste!
 
Well then he will just have to put it to good use. We can always use more elder dragon blood.
Okay. So to explain this as clearly as I can. If we want to make a Grudge Weapon, with one action, its not very likely to be a T4 unless its a really good combo. T4's give +15 to mechanical stuff like the hunt.

If he keeps rolling bad it doesn't matter, the spear will have effectively availed him nothing. If he rolls even close to average then with his bonuses he's kicking around a total result of 70 (Cavernlord and Request of the Gift Giver totals up to +30, and I'm considering close to average in the 30-40 range). And the problem will likely solve itself.
 
Well then he will just have to put it to good use. We can always use more elder dragon blood.
You think he requires a specifically made weapon to deal with a juvenile Shardwyrm but also want to send him after an Elder Dragon? Elder Dragons are explicitly T4. They're not even an option to hunt.

As has been pointed out the problem isn't killing it, it's finding and cornering it. Once they do that killing it will be simple. Or in other words, once we get a half decent roll it's dead.
 
Okay. So to explain this as clearly as I can. If we want to make a Grudge Weapon, with one action, its not very likely to be a T4 unless its a really good combo. T4's give +15 to mechanical stuff like the hunt.

If he keeps rolling bad it doesn't matter, the spear will have effectively availed him nothing. If he rolls even close to average then with his bonuses he's kicking around a total result of 70 (Cavernlord and Request of the Gift Giver totals up to +30, and I'm considering close to average in the 30-40 range).
It is not going to be a T4, but it is going to be very optimized for killing dragons. Grudge rune plus dragonslayer rune is hell of a combo. I expect that he could beat the Drake on a natural one. Or get a reroll.
You think he requires a specifically made weapon to deal with a juvenile Shardwyrm but also want to send him after an Elder Dragon? Elder Dragons are explicitly T4. They're not even an option to hunt.

As has been pointed out the problem isn't killing it, it's finding and cornering it. Once they do that killing it will be simple. Or in other words, once we get a half decent roll it's dead.
With a super anti-dragon spear he doesn't need to corner it. Just get eyes on it and throw. Much easier.
 
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You think he requires a specifically made weapon to deal with a juvenile Shardwyrm but also want to send him after an Elder Dragon? Elder Dragons are explicitly T4. They're not even an option to hunt.

As has been pointed out the problem isn't killing it, it's finding and cornering it. Once they do that killing it will be simple. Or in other words, once we get a half decent roll it's dead.
With a super anti-dragon spear he doesn't need to corner it. Just get eyes on it and throw. Much easier.
 
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