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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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BungieONI said:
Nah. During the Anoqeyan section Menlinwen specifies that his Stilling Field didn't react to speaking Anoqeyan until now, after he has changed what he can do with the Eye.

Also, go back to the sections talking about his forgings - the chant helps him get into the right state of mind. But his soul and the trance state are what his Field actually reacts to. Otherwise you'd expect the Chants to be necessary when they fundamentally aren't.
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I mean Anoqeyan also has a mind-set element which one could cast in without the words. Teclis doesn't go shouting words every time he makes a a magical light. Fundamentally it an the language of rune-smithing are sister tongues.
 
Hmm, a possible idea for a development from Stilling Field research is Snorri learning how to manipulate his own field. Effectively allowing him to make streams for the winds to flow in a path of least resistance way and be able to manipulate them through that and casting pseudo-spells.
 
BungieONI said:
That's not relevant to my point. What are you even trying to argue?
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That the reason the field reacted now to Anoqeyan as opposed to before is simply that Snori has a better grasp of Anoqeyan and that he is doing the mindset part properly. By the same token the field has since he was an apprentive striking his first Rune reacted to Antique Khazalid, that is literally the process of runesmithing.
 
DragonParadox said:
That the reason the field reacted now to Anoqeyan as opposed to before is simply that Snori has a better grasp of Anoqeyan and that he is doing the mindset part properly. By the same token the field has since he was an apprentive striking his first Rune reacted to Antique Khazalid, that is literally the process of runesmithing.
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...No? Snorri has done the Anoqeyån exercises before, and Menlinwen mentioned that it didn't have the effect then, she suspected it was because of gaining windsight. And the chants don't actually do anything for runesmithing, they're just there to get you in the right state of mind (which is what actually matters). That's why you can stop saying the chants once you get good enough, because you have the discipline to just put yourself in that state of mind whenever you want, without assistance.
 
theretrodragon said:
...No? Snorri has done the Anoqeyån exercises before, and Menlinwen mentioned that it didn't have the effect then, she suspected it was because of gaining windsight. And the chants don't actually do anything for runesmithing, they're just there to get you in the right state of mind (which is what actually matters). That's why you can stop saying the chants once you get good enough, because you have the discipline to just put yourself in that state of mind whenever you want, without assistance.
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Once again, the same is true of spells, elves can also stop saying the words and just fall into the rhythm of magic and they learn the process precisely the same with novices needing to use the words and experts simply using the state of mind.
 
DragonParadox said:
That the reason the field reacted now to Anoqeyan as opposed to before is simply that Snori has a better grasp of Anoqeyan and that he is doing the mindset part properly. By the same token the field has since he was an apprentive striking his first Rune reacted to Antique Khazalid, that is literally the process of runesmithing.
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The Field does not react to Antique Khazalid. Snorri has straight up said so.

soulcake said:
There was an honest possibility in your mind that the moment you began forging the Rune the Winds would flood towards the Rune, or that some flash of aethyric power would erupt and render you blind and force you to put that claim about forging the Rune with half your senses gone to the test. But that, thankfully, does not come to pass. The Winds of Magic in your workshop do not react to the forging initially, or at least no more than they would to any other mundane smithing. Chamon twitches and moves towards you yes, bouncing off the repelling aura of the Stilling Field as expected.

But though you can only glimpse it for moments, you see that your soul and the magic within is alight with activity.

The veins of gold glow, multifaceted and multihued light rushing through them rhythmically like the energy that pulses from Barak Azamar.

Chamon gold, Ghyran emerald and Hyshian Diamond light pulsed to the beat of some unknown rhythm.

It is wondrous to behold.
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soulcake said:
The energy crawls into you through your feet and you lose sight of the Winds at that point. But while you can't see the path they take, you know where it all ends up as the trails of energy that connect you to the Rune swell and grow in size.

The final and most drastic change happens near the end of the rite, at the point when the Rune comes to completion.

The Stilling Field that you project outwards, the barrier that held back the Winds that now swirl around you in an increasingly stronger and faster vortex begins to shrink and weaken. Milimeter by milimeter, until its barely thirty centimeters out and so weak that roughly half of the volume of magic gets through.

Then as you swing the hammer down the final time and the Rune glow as it activates for the first time you see the Rune draw in and absorb all of the Winds around you; leaving a volume of space utterly devoid of magic before nature takes its course and the vacuum is filled.
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soulcake said:
Between hammer blows, a tenth of the way through the striking, you see it happen out of the corner of your eye; the Winds in the room flicker, as if something has drawn their attention. The moment is different from the Runes you forged. Stone was perhaps a third of the way through the chant, while the Runes on Aethyrbinder ranged from the very beginning to just before halfway through.

It seems to follow no rhyme or reason, until you realize the Winds seem to react to Karstah's chanting—or the state of her mind than the ringing blow of her hammer.

But why? You think it unlikely to be the chant itself, history has proven you do not need it, and Karstah is only doing so because you had asked her to.

You watch for a moment longer, before it hits you like a fist in the face.

Karstah's hammer swings down just as she speaks, her body lagging behind her soul, the golden lines on her soul pulse and the Winds of Magic flicker and draw together a little more than before.
Will guides it​
The chant is not the cause, but it is correlation.

The soul, of course it would be. How could you be so stupid to not realize earlier?

What other way could one control a metaphysical substance than with metaphysical tools?

With each pulse of the golden lines, coinciding with key moments in the chant you note pointedly, the Winds move more and more, coalescing and spinning like you saw with the Rune of Stone and Aethyrbinder.

The Aethyr pushes against her Stilling Field and yours, bouncing against the invisible barriers insistently. Lines of orderly magic trickle through, crawling along the ground in a strange pattern before entering Karstah's soul through her feet.

Your eye sees how the energy travels from Karstah to the Rune, bowing and twisting like a string caught in the breeze, before it enters the Rune.
​
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This is saying that the Chant correlates to the pulses of her soul and the veins within, but the actual cause is the pulse of the veins. The primary reaction of the Stilling Field happens near the end of the rite.

soulcake said:
1. Making a Rune only requires a striker with the Gift, and the correct striking, anything else is only to compensate for their inadequacies.
2. A Rune was inert until the moment of completion.
3. A Rune absorbs the ambient magic around it upon completion as an initial stockpile to power itself.
4. A Rune does not exceed nor deviate from its intended function without outside impetus.
5. A Rune can have unique interactions when inscribed with other specific Runes.
6. A Rune can only be successfully inscribed on a surface which meets a specific set of criteria.
7. Any alteration, intended or not, made when creating a Rune results in an entirely new Rune.
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Principle 1 there is about striking, and the chant is not a part of the pattern of strikes. It has been multiple times called out as a crutch - like a reagent.

Okay. Now that we've established that the chant is a teaching aid and mnemonic and the actual functional cause of what happens in runesmithing is the Soul and the trance state/mindset that tells us that the trance state is the primary influence on the Stilling Field. And it has since been time immemorial.

In the post you made where you pointed out a supposed flaw in my argument you said that I was assuming it was unusual how the Stilling Field reacted to Anoqeyan? I wasn't assuming anything, I was speaking from a statement of Menlinwen.

soulcake said:
Grumbling, you go through the laborious process of changing your frame of mind to the right headspace for the metaphysical component of the word, and then speak the verbal half of the Anoqeyån concept for "sunset."

Again, you and Menlinwen see a portion of your Stilling Field vibrating slightly westward, the space moving like the heat haze on a sweltering summer's day.

"Fascinating," she murmurs, "the phenomena alone is a curiosity, but as to why it behaves this way I can only begin to guess."

"I'd hear those guesses regardless, Ebonsea," you respond, silently disquieted.

"Given what little I am aware of," she begins, tone not judging despite the obvious secrets on your part, "I believe the cause is whatever you've done to yourself Lord Klausson, rather than the Anoqeyån itself. We've done these exercises in the past to no effect after all. I doubt it's mere coincidence that this phenomenon only started occurring after you started lessons again. That said, it's clear from our admittedly few experiments that the full Anoqeyån expression is required, rather than it being one aspect in particular. Thus I'm led to believe that it is awareness of the phenomenon itself that is key to this. If you would be interested, Lord Klausson, I can prepare some exercises for you to help determine if my theory is true."

"If you'd be so inclined. As an aside, there aren't any concerns about possible dangers from me doing independent attempts, are there?" You ask, glancing at Menlinwen curiously.
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We also have an entirely separate reason to believe his field's behavior has changed somehow - because he's literally done the exact kind of observation that went wrong with Karstah, before he got the Eye and nothing happened. Like I've said.

DragonParadox said:
Once again, the same is true of spells, elves can also stop saying the words and just fall into the rhythm of magic and they learn the process precisely the same with novices needing to use the words and experts simply using the state of mind.
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Why does that matter dude? Neither me nor retro care much about the chant or what's possible with spells. The fact its true of spells doesn't address the Meat of the point - which is that based on her statement "We've done these exercises in the past to no effect after all", they've done these mindset altering exercises before and nothing happened to his Stilling Field.

Now something does.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Once again, the same is true of spells, elves can also stop saying the words and just fall into the rhythm of magic and they learn the process precisely the same with novices needing to use the words and experts simply using the state of mind.
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And? novices using mnenomic techniques and masters not needing to is true of basically every profession in the world, that doesn't mean they're magical or linked somehow.
 
BungieONI said:
The Field does not react to Antique Khazalid. Snorri has straight up said so.





This is saying that the Chant correlates to the pulses of her soul and the veins within, but the actual cause is the pulse of the veins. The primary reaction of the Stilling Field happens near the end of the rite.


Principle 1 there is about striking, and the chant is not a part of the pattern of strikes. It has been multiple times called out as a crutch - like a reagent.

Okay. Now that we've established that the chant is a teaching aid and mnemonic and the actual functional cause of what happens in runesmithing is the Soul and the trance state/mindset that tells us that the trance state is the primary influence on the Stilling Field. And it has since been time immemorial.

In the post you made where you pointed out a supposed flaw in my argument you said that I was assuming it was unusual how the Stilling Field reacted to Anoqeyan? I wasn't assuming anything, I was speaking from a statement of Menlinwen.



We also have an entirely separate reason to believe his field's behavior has changed somehow - because he's literally done the exact kind of observation that went wrong with Karstah, before he got the Eye and nothing happened. Like I've said.


Why does that matter dude? Neither me nor retro care much about the chant or what's possible with spells. The fact its true of spells doesn't address the Meat of the point - which is that based on her statement "We've done these exercises in the past to no effect after all", they've done these mindset altering exercises before and nothing happened to his Stilling Field.

Now something does.
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Hmm... fair point, I can think of counter arguments to each of these in isolation but all of them together do prove this is an observation thing.
 
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Mar 24, 2025 at 8:17 PM, finished with 323 posts and 141 votes.
[anniversary] [number] [apprentice]
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Votes are slowing down a lot and the current lead is 3 apprentices with Svina, Alma, and Yorri being taken. Little sad we're not going to be able to use Karstah as much for what we have been (materials analysis, design of items, or help with Khazagar etc) for the next year but this trifecta of oddballs will be interesting. And its a chance for Snorri to stretch his design muscles again.

Gonna need to update my Apprentices of the Odd Lineage Sheet when this vote is done.
 
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Blackstarbor said:
When will the dragons have offspring? I'm waiting for the fort to live up to its name.
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BungieONI said:
We have no idea. They're mature enough for them at this point but who knows when they'll actually be interested in doing so.
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NGL, I have been hoping for us, or the Hold in general rather, to start rearing dragons in emulation of us. We need to live up to the name after all. That and the trio have also shown their worth as they mature. And having more dragons is always better than having less.
 
ThePkrmgc said:
An excerpt from the collected stories of Runelord Dwalin "Thunderlung" Hurgarsson of Kraka Drakk: as recorded in the archives of Brynkhaz a Langskaudi.
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This is adorable.
ThePkrmgc said:
Nor was it in durability, for they would pass through the talons of a mere three generations of teething featherlings before these first examples were visibly careworn.
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This however is a bit jarring. Unless I've missed something (it's a big quest, it's possible), the Brana have beaks, and thus will never be teething because they have no teeth. Unless you count the single "egg tooth" many species' hatchlings have on the top of their beak, used for breaking the shell during hatching, but those generally fall off within 24 hours of hatching.
 
[X] [Anniversary:] Now I'm not discounting the work of Morgrim's folk, but I can't share a toast with whatever that new gadget is. [Progress development of Far Northern Dawi preferring allies over tech.]
 
[X] [Anniversary:] The Gates below open at His order. By Rune be called, by Rune be strengthened. Spectres, Spirits, Ancestors. [The Mouth of the Underearth is just a bit more literal.]
[X] [Anniversary:] Tor Vernath's dockyards welcome visitors from across the mountains and sea. Champion, Brother, Cursed, Morelion. [Morelion and co. visits Tor Vernath on behalf of his sister the Everqueen]
[X] [Anniversary:] Zhufbar seeks to harness torrents of a different sort. Harness the sky, gas that lifts and madness of youth. [Experiments with lighter than air ships start earlier.]
 
Remembering how Lorna suffered when she started teaching with a pair of apprentices, Karstah beginning with three is probably going to be a disaster of the most entertaining to watch variety.
Blackstarbor said:
When will the dragons have offspring? I'm waiting for the fort to live up to its name.
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At least not before they show interest in meeting other shard wyrms that are not family?
Like are you asking when we get incest babies or when we get shard wyrm jesus via immaculate conception?
 
Dark as Silver said:
Remembering how Lorna suffered when she started teaching with a pair of apprentices, Karstah beginning with three is probably going to be a disaster of the most entertaining to watch variety.

At least not before they show interest in meeting other shard wyrms that are not family?
Like are you asking when we get incest babies or when we get shard wyrm jesus via immaculate conception?
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Technically they could reproduce by parthenogenesis. It is not like dragons of all things need to worry about having the same genome in the face of a changing world for evolutionary purposes, they will mutate if the winds look at them funny.
 
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