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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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If we're talking about Lizardmen stuff, the 7th edition also says some stuff. Page 7.

"Even as the gateways collapsed, the Old Ones departed from the world. Whether they were destroyed or they simply abandoned the world to its fate, none will ever know. The Old Ones were beings of order and life, and Chaos was anathema to them. The raw stuff of Chaos coalesced into solid form, to rain down upon the world, poisoning life and bringing into being all manner of twisted and unnatural creatures. At the poles, great chunks of the stuff fell to earth, the remnants perhaps of the gateways themselves. Further afield smaller rocks plummeted through the sky upon wierdling contrails, setting the air afire with pulsating, eerie lights. No region escaped, as a fine layer of warps tone dust settled across the entire world, bringing mutation to all. Where the gateway had once been, now there throbbed a second moon, a malevolent, green satellite made from the very stuff of Chaos."

*raw stuff of Chaos in solid form, rained down upon the world
*big chunks of Chaos-stuff fell down at the poles, maybe the gateways themselves?
*lots of meteors flew through the air

No real hint-hint-wink-wink type stuff about star-metal and gromril in there.

Another few interesting things I found in 7th edition was this bit. Page 6.

"Upon the plains of the world the Old Ones encountered the primitive creatures that would one day be taken up and transformed into the very first Elves, Dwarfs and Men."

So Elves, Dwarfs and Men existed before the coming of the Old Ones and weren't just a purely Old One creation. That's actually interesting because the common refrain nowadays in every thread is that it's Dragons, Dragon Ogres (and sometimes Sky Titans IIRC) that were the original leftover inhabitants that still persist to this day, and that Elves, Humans and Dwarfs were Old One creations. And apparently the Elves were taught their magic at the lap of the Old Ones/Lizardmen, whereas the Dwarfs had innate and intrinsic magic...

"The first created were the Elves, who learned the lore of magic in the lap of the gods, followed by the Dwarfs, whose magic was not learned, but intrinsic and instinctual."

So the Dwarfs had runic magic all along? Maybe it was something to do with their origin myth, or with the Ancestors themselves, or maybe the Ancestors were just the ones that figured out how to use it... Still, this implies interesting stuff about the creation myths of the Dwarfs. Did they have magic even before the Old Ones came? If so, their Ancestors might be even older than thought of before... Eh. Who knows.

Also, apparently the world used to be a mega-continent. It used to only have a thin band in the middle that could sustain life though, so it wasn't all frozen planet, interestingly enough...

"Many aeons ago, the world was a cold, dark and windswept place. Ice sheets covered much of the surface, a thin equatorial band the only region capable of sustaining much in the way of life. Savages roamed the land, battling the elements and other, more ancient and evil things, for survival. Who knows what inhuman civilisations rose and fell in that forgotten age, their remains now buried by the passage of time."

"The next stage of the Old Ones' plan was the realignment of the tectonic plates. From the single mega-continent revealed by the retreat of the ice sheets, the Old Ones set into motion a plan that would see the formation of entirely new lands and seas, making the world conform to an established pattern compatible with their ends. This realignment would take many millennia, none other than the Old Ones knowing its final form or purpose."
 
While agreeing that it does not concern this quest it's still a pretty cool origin story
I mean supermetal from giant space warp gates corrupted by warpstone when they were destroyed > supermetal from random space rock.
 
"Upon the plains of the world the Old Ones encountered the primitive creatures that would one day be taken up and transformed into the very first Elves, Dwarfs and Men."

So Elves, Dwarfs and Men existed before the coming of the Old Ones and weren't just a purely Old One creation. That's actually interesting because the common refrain nowadays in every thread is that it's Dragons, Dragon Ogres (and sometimes Sky Titans IIRC) that were the original leftover inhabitants that still persist to this day, and that Elves, Humans and Dwarfs were Old One creations. And apparently the Elves were taught their magic at the lap of the Old Ones/Lizardmen, whereas the Dwarfs had innate and intrinsic magic...

Well, not neccessarily elves, dwarves, and men. It could well be a single species that's the common ancestor of all of them, and I think that's more likely, rather than there being three separate proto-races. The Sky Titans, given that they're humanoid, could be that source, potentially. Or the Fimir, another humanoid pre-Old One race. Or whatever Drakenfels was or wasn't, as he claimed to have been born as one of the pre-Old One precursors.

Elves, dwarves and men explicitly didn't exist before the Old Ones, as the Old Ones transformed the precursor species(es) into the very first of them.

Old Ones got the metal SOMEWHERE to make the Gates after all

Or they magiced it into existence.
 
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While this discussion about the creation of the world is neat, can we please try to reign it back into the confines of this quest before it gets too out of topic? Thank you for your cooperation. :^)
 
So to another topic, when the great Throng comes, we're joining it presumably? It would be great from a narrative standpoint and mechanically It would probably give us inspiration with Student of the Odd.
 
So to another topic, when the great Throng comes, we're joining it presumably? It would be great from a narrative standpoint and mechanically It would probably give us inspiration with Student of the Odd.
I wouldn't mind joining the Throng, but less for the inspiration with Student of the Odd and more to get some more exploration of the North and establishing some more connections with the Southern Holds. We're pretty famous up here in the North, but it could be really cool to further expand our reputation and get lines of means to get rare and interesting ingredients for our runes.
 
So to another topic, when the great Throng comes, we're joining it presumably? It would be great from a narrative standpoint and mechanically It would probably give us inspiration with Student of the Odd.
I would rather not go into in depth battle turns again. However, if the battles are kept relatively short, I'd be fine with a change of scenery.
 
So to another topic, when the great Throng comes, we're joining it presumably? It would be great from a narrative standpoint and mechanically It would probably give us inspiration with Student of the Odd.
I'm not sure if the option will be presented to us. On the one hand its interesting and I'd enjoy it quite a bit, but on the other there's stuff I'd enjoy quite a bit in the Hold and joining the throng would probably preclude some of those things. Stuff like Yorri things would remain as stuff we could do with the throng, and teaching Snerra I think might be possible as well but on the other other hand: Well, Snerra is going to graduate in Turn 15 so I'd rather train her then head off to it if that's an option.

And Grimnir should be receiving a trickle of dwarves from the nearby holds to wherever his Great Throng is, so there'd be procedure for us joining later I figure. And tbh there's serious reason to, since its good for getting ingredients, or at least I think it would be.
 
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So to another topic, when the great Throng comes, we're joining it presumably? It would be great from a narrative standpoint and mechanically It would probably give us inspiration with Student of the Odd.
I'm up for the opportunity to maybe see the Ancestors in person and/or show off some adamant gear.
 
I say probably join when the Great Throng reaches the north. Right now while it's starting, we've got work, research, and Apprentice teaching to do.

Particularly since things are getting interesting with the Griffon, and more work might be needed to bulk up the part of Kraka Drakk's Throng that isn't joining.
 
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I'm interested for the reason of being the ancient who saw the face of at least one ancestor god.

Big moral boost for the dawi when it comes.
 
Ingredients, exploration, meeting new people... and old friends too! Maybe we'll find that Snorri's old master has come north? ... Well okay probably not but. Maybe we'll hear news of him.

We're currently the only big-name-big-deal Runelord of the north. We've got no true peers. Heck, we're apparently the one real Hero unit that Kraka Drakk has. (Or at least, so I remember from long ago. It could be the case that King Otrek, and Ranger Brokk, became Hero Units too.)

But the Great Throng? That'll definitely have people who'll be on our level! And above us too, but for now I'm focusing on the idea of finding possibly friends and rivals who're equals.

Also, at least one Ancestor God will be there. I want to see him. I want to at least see what they're like.

Maybe this will give us opportunities to rub elbows and make connections with both Radical and Conservative Runesmiths both.
 
Expecting Snorri to finish his adamant tux and still get to the big party in time seems overly optimistic to me. He still needs two turns of focused effort just to hash out a theoretical plan for adamant processing, plus who knows many more actions to actually put that plan in practice and refine the stuff in appreciable quantities.

I would definitely be interested in banging out an incremental upgrade or two before he's off to the races, tho. Like a new axe maybe, seeing as the old one doesn't even have a master rune on it (for shame!) and he's got a surfeit of materials for making a master rune of currents.
 
I say probably join when the Great Throng reaches the north. Right now while it's starting, we've got work, research, and Apprentice teaching to do.

Particularly since things are getting interesting with the Griffon, and more work might be needed to bulk up Kraka Drakk while a part of the Throng's away.
I doubt it personally in terms of defenses because of all the Runic stuff we gave the Kraka Drakk Throng, and the defense in depth chain and the Daemonward gate and the Miner. I'm comfortable with what we got at the moment, especially with the whole thing with the purpose of fortifications being to let you defend a greater area with fewer people. Especially in the dwarf mindset.

Like you said, I want to focus on work like the Griffon stuff, research and apprentice teaching.


Expecting Snorri to finish his adamant tux and still get to the big party in time seems overly optimistic to me. He still needs two turns of focused effort just to hash out a theoretical plan for adamant processing, plus who knows many more actions to actually put that plan in practice and refine the stuff in appreciable quantities.

I would definitely be interested in banging out an incremental upgrade or two before he's off to the races, tho. Like a new axe maybe, seeing as the old one doesn't even have a master rune on it (for shame!) and he's got a surfeit of materials for making a master rune of currents.
Ye, a Master Rune of Currents, Rune of Parrying, Rune of Striking axe would be *chefkiss.jpg* in my mind.
 
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Also: what would happen if we tried to use our rune of purification on warpstone?
Depends on if warpstone is solidified warp stuff, or if it's a real material that's been super corrupted by warp stuff, in the first case we'll destroy the warpstone, in the second I imagine we'd expose whatever material warpstone is (maybe it's gromnil that was made metaphysically non orderly enough to outright represent chaos?)
 
Depends on if warpstone is solidified warp stuff, or if it's a real material that's been super corrupted by warp stuff, in the first case we'll destroy the warpstone, in the second I imagine we'd expose whatever material warpstone is (maybe it's gromnil that was made metaphysically non orderly enough to outright represent chaos?)
Claims of godhood aside, being able to safely disposing of warpstone would be amazing.

Pity the research would probably be much too dangerous. Since it is still the time of the Ancestors, I don't think the conclusion of "Seal it away, there's no way to dispose of it" has become set in stone yet, so we might be able to research that ourselves. And given our Student of the Odd trait, we might come up with something good ;)

Based on the story of the Nemesis Crown, i think that warpstone is actually able to withstand runes that even Gromril isn't able to. Also, in case it ever comes up, we shouldn never, ever inscribe runes on warpstone.
 
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