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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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defenestrator said:
Won't disagree with your analysis on the other groups. Except this one:

Us drawing first blood will *not* make us consistent.

Read our encounter with Ishinomaki again. The fight started with us waving a huge white truce flag, and with them throwing a goddamn lightning bolt at us.

IMO Ishinomaki's opinion of us is "Whew, thank Kami that girl's nice. Or we'd be dead in six different ways otherwise... Think we should revise our 'attack on sight' protocol?"
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Will reread later, but here we are not exactly drawing first blood but laying it down after Sendai refuses to consider our message of peace (Though other votes for that plan don't include announcing that, Sendai/Fukushima will still know), and meets up with allies. In any case, I believe their outlook of us wouldn't change to negative one.
defenestrator said:
Our five MG groups are *not* the only groups living within the 4 cities. It's not outright stated, but I doubt the UG is the only group that Akiko' s charging 'rent'. The Ishinomaki girls are the most prominent group in their city, but *not* the only group.

Not to mention the countless independents and pairs trying to remain in the background.
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Cannongerbil's neat link. No more known groups in the city, but Onegawa/Tokyo are slated to join on Sendai, with Tome/Osaki on Ishinomaki side.

They'd arrive after we had shut down combat, particularly on Sendai side. If they still want to war after hearing about anti-redress/life-saving Meguca....Then they would war.

Aranfan said:
How exactly is Salty's plan supervillianous? The speech is basically, "Fine, let's do this your way then." followed by *application of overwhelming force in a non-leathal manner*.

I'm not seeing the supervillainy.
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I have not watched those cartoons, so can't say. The speech is not like Pokemon's Team Rocket.
 
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Ugolino said:
Would that be the cackling, the trying to take on everyone at once, or the bit where he rips off Harbinger for a remarkably unoriginal speech?
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1. There wasn't any cackling when last I read it.
2. There's nothing wrong with taking on everybody on at once if we win, and Salty's plan actually is pretty viable, even if I'd prefer timestop headshots.
3. Where is he ripping off Harbinger?
 
'Lement said:
@defenestrator:
Who and how will spread the rep?
UG? Thankful to forever.
Sendai? Paint us as intervenionist supporting their group's slayer.
Ishinomaki? We already took them down like this. It only makes us consistent.
Fukushima? They're mercenaries. We'd still have the moral high ground.
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If you think a twenty meguca pileup isn't going to draw significant attention from every meguca in the area, then....ugh

Look, Sendai is fairly well connected for a meguca group due to their healing circuit, and from the sounds of it they are a fairly major player in the local meguca scene. Whatever happens here will get out just by the sheer virtue of their renown. Meguca networks are tenuous, but the Miyagi area at least is going to be abuzz with the news of what went down-

'Lement said:
Cannongerbil's neat link. No more known groups in the city
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Firnagzen said:
Yuuki cocks her head to the side. "That so? Hold up a minute..."

"Hey, Nakano," Yuuki's voice sounds in your head. "Did you need healing?"

"No, why?" an unfamiliar voice replies.

"Just checking," Yuuki replies, breaking off the call. She shrugs at you. "There you go, then."

"And she's the only independent in the city?" you ask.

"Yep," she says. "Unless someone popped up in the last day or so."
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Would you kindly go re-read the last chapter? Or even re read that list? It's not a comprehensive list of every meguca living in the general area, it's a list of groups that will end up getting involved in the war, based upon information from Oriko.
 
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Aranfan said:
2. There's nothing wrong with taking on everybody on at once if we win, and Salty's plan actually is pretty viable, even if I'd prefer timestop headshots.
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Except for the fact that separating Rin, a semi-neutral party, from her Soul Gem is not the mark of the most upstanding person.

3. Where is he ripping off Harbinger?
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Well, more like Sovereign than Harbinger, but here:
you were able to negotiate terms before because I allowed it. And now, you will surrender because I demand it."
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@Aranfan
That's what the speech comes over as. Unwarranted cackling.

If. And yes there is plenty wrong with it. It doesn't even try talking down or making an offer to Fukushima in favor of incoherent, nonsensical, egotistical rambling that rips off Harbinger-badly- in the last two lines. And that's not even getting into the combat "plan" that boils down to "gem yank and hope for the best against multiple megucas with broad powersets". You couldn't have picked a less well thought out plan to vote for if you'd tried.
 
Cannongerbil said:
If you think a twenty meguca pileup isn't going to draw significant attention from every meguca in the area, then....ugh

Look, Sendai is fairly well connected for a meguca group due to their healing circuit, and from the sounds of it they are a fairly major player in the local meguca scene. Whatever happens here will get out just by the sheer virtue of their renown. Meguca networks are tenuous, but the Miyagi area at least is going to be abuzz with the news of what went down-
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Sendai is still going to whitewash their role here and paint us as "interventionist preventing revenge for Kato" either way, compared to which acting better than other groups is not as big deal.
Cannongerbil said:
Would you kindly go re-read the last chapter?
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Point granted, link reread.
 
"Gem yank while protected by mobile grief fortress" is not "Gem yank and hope for the best". And saying that the speech is cackling is highly disingenuous when no actual cackling is involved.
 
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Ugolino said:
And that's not even getting into the combat "plan" that boils down to "gem yank and hope for the best against multiple megucas with broad powersets". You couldn't have picked a less well thought out plan to vote for if you'd tried.
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How about "sit there and wait for those megucas to hit you while you're unarmored, immobile and in public location?". Because that is what I read the other idea as.

Gem yank is...You know, pretty darn good nonharming takedown move. Our grief TK is strong enough to cut through cars.
 
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Aranfan said:
"Gem yank while protected by mobile grief fortress" is not "Gem yank and hope for the best". And saying that the speech is cackling is highly disingenuous when no actual cackling is involved.
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....If I were to call you an idiot, it won't actually be an insult because I didn't actually use the word insult in that line, is that what you are saying?
 
landcollector said:
Except for the fact that separating Rin, a semi-neutral party, from her Soul Gem is not the mark of the most upstanding person.
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True that it is not nice. Well, I wish we could just get along and hug Akiko...

Neutral....There is no way Rin wouldn't heal her party, nor is there anything semi about it when we're being attacked or attack her friends..
 
'Lement said:
Will reread later, but here we are not exactly drawing first blood but laying it down after Sendai refuses to consider our message of peace
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Just kidding :p
'Lement said:
(Though other votes for that plan don't include announcing that, Sendai/Fukushima will still know), and meets up with allies.
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*Rereads salty vote* But we're going in to their meeting encased in a grief fortress. That still kind of shouts "hostilities" even if we're not outright attacking.
'Lement said:
Cannongerbil's neat link. No more known groups in the city, but Onegawa/Tokyo are slated to join on Sendai, with Tome/Osaki on Ishinomaki side.
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Which reinforces my point about other MGs and PR, yes.
'Lement said:
They'd arrive after we had shut down combat, particularly on Sendai side. If they still want to war after hearing about anti-redress/life-saving Meguca....Then they would war.
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...Why? The IG's reinforcements are already a non-issue, as we've gotten their agreement for a ceasefire so long as Akiko doesn't attack them again (which we are already working on). They have no reason to call in reinforcements. As for Onegawa/Tokyo...Unless they have an overwhelming reason to kill like Akiko, why would they engage? Are they already on their way? Unless they're coming for personal reasoins, I doubt Akiko already called them in. Merc's are pretty expensive, both in favors and seeds.
 
'Lement said:
How about "sit there and wait for those megucas to hit you while you're unarmored, immobile and in public location?". Because that is what I read the other idea as.
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It's not pointlessly starting a brawl with the entire possible opposition at once instead of trying to convert/keep busy said opposition and focusing on the elements which we can deal with. Which is the actual plan.
 
Cannongerbil said:
....If I were to call you an idiot, it won't actually be an insult because I didn't actually use the word insult in that line, is that what you are saying?
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When Ugo said that Salty's vote involved supervillianous cackling, I expected actual evil laughter, rather than a vehement "Fine, let's do this your way and we'll see how you like being on the receiving end." Presentation is rather important, and Ugo was misrepresenting Salty's vote.
 
I wasn't being literal. If I was being literal, I'd say "it's a badly written, badly planned, and badly thought-out vote that will sink things if it wins out by some cosmic joke". But I wasn't.
 
defenestrator said:
*Rereads salty vote* But we're going in to their meeting encased in a grief fortress. That still kind of shouts "hostilities" even if we're not outright attacking.
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...Yanking gems didn't shout hostilities? :p

For Ishinomaki, lets put a white flag on fortress, they'll surely not attack again. Or maybe ask for help from UG with that message.
defenestrator said:
Which reinforces my point about other MGs and PR, yes.
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Indeed reinforces, but atm I still think it'd let us remain on moral high ground compared to others excl. deliberate misportrayal by Sendai; atm I think it is simply less positive PR, not negative one.
defenestrator said:
...Why? The IG's reinforcements are already a non-issue, as we've gotten their agreement for a ceasefire so long as Akiko doesn't attack them again (which we are already working on). They have no reason to call in reinforcements. As for Onegawa/Tokyo...Unless they have an overwhelming reason to kill like Akiko, why would they engage? Are they already on their way? Unless they're coming for personal reasoins, I doubt Akiko already called them in. Merc's are pretty expensive, both in favors and seeds.
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I think you misread that: I am hoping that they won't engage, but if they would engage after hearing about Sabrina, then engage they will. It is not like we'd be painted so much better to Onegawa/Tokyo groups here that their reasons for attacking would go poof.
 
I would also like to point out the 'Mura vote ends with looking for Akiko. The Salty vote... kind of assumes we already know where they are. Which we don't. So it might end up with us looking for Sendai group for an hour... while encased in grief fortress... the entire time we're looking for them.

*in other news, a UFO has been sighted by thousands of witnesses over Sendai city. The cabinet ministers are already convening how to best handle this 'first contact' scenario. Meanwhile, the JDSF are mobilising and the nearby US carrier Theodore Roosevelt is scrambling fighter jets in preparation for any hostilities from the aliens*
 
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Ugolino said:
It's not pointlessly starting a brawl with the entire possible opposition at once instead of trying to convert/keep busy said opposition and focusing on the elements which we can deal with. Which is the actual plan.
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Wait, you think the "hand Rin back" plan would get her to ally with us over her Sendai friends|make the mercenaries stop being mercenaries|result in fighting not happening?

I really doubt each of those. In a non-combat situation, I can see Rin leaving her friends - but not when they're about to enter a fight. And the other seem even more unlikely, given that Fukushima likely has previous deals with Sendai and how Sendai already is determined to fight with Ishinomaki.

@defenestrator: It is not like Mura vote would find her faster if they want to hide; rather the opposite: Akiko is on feet, and grief jet has higher vantage point plus faster speed.

A hour...I think (though am not sure if) the jet was supersonic. Sound crosses at least 1200 km per hour. I doubt Akiko left the city, since the other group arrived, not wasn't brought in by Sakura. Due that, I find that unlikely.

defenestrator said:
Are they already on their way?
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Oh yeah, they may be; Oriko predicted them joining in 7 hours.
 
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...Last I checked, Salty's vote was pretty outnumbered by the FrankenMuraVot. I don't agree with the vote, but I don't see any further point in arguing with it unless it gets additional support. No need to flame war, we kind of outnumber the people we disagree with. If they want their vote to succeed, they have to convince us, not the other way around.
 
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