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Eh, I find it harder to read, much like ALLCAPS TEXT.Bolding votes is a thing.
(See the vote tally above.)
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
(See the vote tally above.)
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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Why would Rin "just shrug"? It's not just being kept out of the loop. It's ostensibly the whole reason they were in Ishinomaki. Rin was explicitly lied to unless she's in on it too. The entire trip makes no sense as presented. There wouldn't even be a reason to try and negotiate a cease fire with Ishinomaki if there's no reason to go there in the first place. Which, if Akiko didn't bring Rin to heal Kato, there isn't.
Rin being lied to means she can't give us information...
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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Right. That is true. I know that. I don't care if she can confirm what Akiko said or knows anything at all about specifically about Kato. That's not the purpose of the question.
Asking the question has two possible results:
1. Rin doesn't know. She realizes that Akiko lied about the purpose of the entire trip. Akiko seems that much more untrustworthy and possibly unstable to Rin. Doubts seeded.
2. Rin knew Kato was dead. We now know that Rin lied to us about their trip and can't be trusted to be straight with us.
Both are useful.
Gadjo
Doka
[x] Reassure Rin. "I know this isn't your fault."
[x] To Rin and Sakura: Is she okay?
[x] To Akiko: Point out that she knows a teleporter and we're fine with her dropping by whenever for cleanses or to refresh Seeds. All we're asking in return is that everyone stop fighting for a reason we've essentially made obsolete.
- [x] Please, Akiko, work with me. This doesn't have to end in tears. I just need you to stop hounding the University group. You don't have to do that anymore.
- [x] Safety, security, commodity doesn't explain why you told us you were in Ishinomkai to heal Kato Setsuko. There's clearly more to this, and I can't help you if you won't let me. If you want, we can go somewhere to discuss the issue in private.
[x] If she reacts negatively or refuses our offer:
- [x] To Rin: Akiko has informed me that Kato Setsuko is dead. Did you know about this? Why would she take you to Ishinomaki to heal a dead girl?
- [x] Relay to Mami, via telepathy what Akiko just told us. Thoughts?
- [x] To Akiko: One way or another your extortion of the University girls is going to stop. If we can't come to a peaceful agreement, then for any further "payments" you'll have to go through us. Please reconsider, I don't want to start that fight, but I will end it if you force my hand.
-[x] Start talking to her teammates. Rin and Sakura, mainly, and ask if them can relay the message to the other girls. Tell her what we've just heard. Do they really want to go with a plan to try and demand 30 seeds from a group that they know can't afford it and force us to side with the University group if they refuse, or would they be willing to work for peace with us?
Here's hoping we don't have to undermine her. That's gonna be messy, but I suppose if we need to use it "messy" is the best we're gonna get.
[x] To Rin and Sakura: Is she okay?
[x] To Akiko: Point out that she knows a teleporter and we're fine with her dropping by whenever for cleanses or to refresh Seeds. All we're asking in return is that everyone stop fighting for a reason we've essentially made obsolete.
- [x] Please, Akiko, work with me. This doesn't have to end in tears. I just need you to stop hounding the University group. You don't have to do that anymore.
- [x] Safety, security, commodity doesn't explain why you told us you were in Ishinomkai to heal Kato Setsuko. There's clearly more to this, and I can't help you if you won't let me. If you want, we can go somewhere to discuss the issue in private.
[x] If she reacts negatively or refuses our offer:
- [x] To Rin: Akiko has informed me that Kato Setsuko is dead. Did you know about this? Why would she take you to Ishinomaki to heal a dead girl?
- [x] Relay to Mami, via telepathy what Akiko just told us. Thoughts?
- [x] To Akiko: One way or another your extortion of the University girls is going to stop. If we can't come to a peaceful agreement, then for any further "payments" you'll have to go through us. Please reconsider, I don't want to start that fight, but I will end it if you force my hand.
-[x] Start talking to her teammates. Rin and Sakura, mainly, and ask if them can relay the message to the other girls. Tell her what we've just heard. Do they really want to go with a plan to try and demand 30 seeds from a group that they know can't afford it and force us to side with the University group if they refuse, or would they be willing to work for peace with us?
Here's hoping we don't have to undermine her. That's gonna be messy, but I suppose if we need to use it "messy" is the best we're gonna get.
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1's pretty much guaranteed to be the case, going by everything else so far.
Do you guys remember the Oriko interrogation? The only time Firn showed us a single crack in Oriko's attitude was when we mentioned Kirika's fate. In the end, we were forced to sledgehammer that crack open to get her to capitulate.
With that said, I don't think we're trying hard enough to hit all the possible angles. We need to break Akiko's facade completely, because we CAN do an emotional appeal now. The way forward is to show her that her way of thinking won't accomplish her own goals.
Undermining her and dealing with her later is fine as a backup plan. Good that our votes right now have it and are using it as such.
Anyway, here's what I'd suggest. I have a frankenvote ready including all the other stuff too, but I want to put this up for peer review first:
-[]You're just saying words, Akiko. Words you don't actually believe. Kato Setsuko is dead. Yet you're trying to heal her. Grief seeds bring safety and security. Yet they've brought you a war. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. There are other ways. Allies you don't have to pay. Soul gems and grief seeds emptied of corruption, without sacrificing your reserves. Freedom to pursue your real goals, without being attacked or needing to sneak around.
-[]The enemy of the magical girl isn't each other. It isn't the witch. Our enemy is the system. I want to change that, but I need you to work with me. Please.
I think that hits 90% of the speculated issues without revealing too much. Thoughts?
With that said, I don't think we're trying hard enough to hit all the possible angles. We need to break Akiko's facade completely, because we CAN do an emotional appeal now. The way forward is to show her that her way of thinking won't accomplish her own goals.
Undermining her and dealing with her later is fine as a backup plan. Good that our votes right now have it and are using it as such.
Anyway, here's what I'd suggest. I have a frankenvote ready including all the other stuff too, but I want to put this up for peer review first:
-[]You're just saying words, Akiko. Words you don't actually believe. Kato Setsuko is dead. Yet you're trying to heal her. Grief seeds bring safety and security. Yet they've brought you a war. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. There are other ways. Allies you don't have to pay. Soul gems and grief seeds emptied of corruption, without sacrificing your reserves. Freedom to pursue your real goals, without being attacked or needing to sneak around.
-[]The enemy of the magical girl isn't each other. It isn't the witch. Our enemy is the system. I want to change that, but I need you to work with me. Please.
I think that hits 90% of the speculated issues without revealing too much. Thoughts?
Gadjo
Doka
I don't have much opinion either way on the second line, but telling her she doesn't believe what she says will make her stonewall some more, I think. I wouldn't mind bringing up the fact that she's brought a war in pursuit of security, except that many wars are waged for that express purpose. I think the current frankenvote has everything we need to cover for this update.
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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I'm worried that "Tell them what we heard." is just going to state "Kato Setsuko is dead." without providing the context of the trip to Ishinomaki ostensibly being to heal a deceased girl. The other two Sendai girls weren't going to Ishinomaki with them and there's no reason for Akiko to have said anything more than it was part of the healing circuit.
A simple "Akiko said they were in Ishinomaki to heal Kato Setsuko. Kato is dead. This makes no sense." would make sure they get the message.
#1 being correct is meaningless if we don't ask*. Rin realizing she's been lied to -the direct consequence of #1- only happens as a result of asking her the question. What words Rin says to us are way less inportant than getting her to consider why Akiko would lie to her about Kato/Ishinomaki.
*I know it's in the vote, but I'm trying to get my point across.
A simple "Akiko said they were in Ishinomaki to heal Kato Setsuko. Kato is dead. This makes no sense." would make sure they get the message.
Again you are correct while kind of missing the point. One can accomplish more by asking a question than just obtaining the specific answer to that question.
#1 being correct is meaningless if we don't ask*. Rin realizing she's been lied to -the direct consequence of #1- only happens as a result of asking her the question. What words Rin says to us are way less inportant than getting her to consider why Akiko would lie to her about Kato/Ishinomaki.
*I know it's in the vote, but I'm trying to get my point across.
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Good point. Ask her instead of telling her?
-[]Do you actually believe that, Akiko? Kato Setsuko is dead. Yet you're trying to heal her. Grief seeds bring safety and security. Yet they've brought you a war. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. There are other ways. Allies you don't have to pay. Soul gems and grief seeds emptied of corruption, without sacrificing your reserves. Freedom to pursue your real goals, without being attacked or needing to sneak around.
My issue with the current frankenvote centers around these two lines:
This one does no convincing. All it does is beg. No reasons, not even emotional ones. 'end in tears' won't mean anything to her. And we don't answer why she doesn't have to do that anymore, especially if she needs grief seeds for something specific other than her group's use.
This one is quite a bit better, and I'm considering using components of it, but it can't be our only angle of attack. If Kato is a touchy issue, and she clams up instead of opening up (refer to literally last update), then we can't get anywhere. We need to imply the things we can offer her, so she actually knows we can help her here.
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I'm pretty sure I can't convince you otherwise, but I obviously disagree. Even if it is, getting her team to see reason will be easier if Akiko's contradictions are made clearer or we manage to destabilize her comportment further. The more we push her emotionally, the better. We aren't doing nearly enough on that front.
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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- They/Them
@SynchronizedWritersBlock I see no issues with your proposals thus far.
You know, because that's the optimal outcome. Akiko not acting crazy and agreeing to stop being such a dick, more or less.
That's no reason not to make this attempt the best possible one we can manage. Actually, if this is the last straw, we're obligated to try our very best to get her to see reason.
You know, because that's the optimal outcome. Akiko not acting crazy and agreeing to stop being such a dick, more or less.
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Gadjo
Doka
I really want to believe we can at least break her stonewall and get to really talk to her, first. I know she's being unreasonable, but I want to believe she can be sympathetic. Call me naive.
Krecart
Not for throwing.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hey, is this bit-
-going to go off if she responds negatively, but we made actual progress breaking through to her? 'Cause that'd be a real shame.
Y'know, if Kato Setsuko did actually witch out and Akiko is stockpiling grief seeds because A) horror of witching out or B) she's using them for some strange voodoo to keep Kato's seed from hatching, then she actually can't explain this unless she knows she's talking to meguca who know certain things already. Telling a whole group of meguca--all of whom are stressed, some of whom are already actively hostile--is a great way for everything to blow up in the messiest way possible. Witchbomb is the danger, after all.
All right, then here's the frankenvote:
[x]Reassure Rin. This isn't her fault.
[x]To Rin and Sakura: Is she okay?
[x]Telepathy to Akiko:
-[x]Do you actually believe that, Akiko? Kato Setsuko is dead. Yet you're trying to heal her. Grief seeds bring safety and security. Yet they've brought you a war. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. There are other ways. Allies you don't have to pay. Soul gems and grief seeds emptied of corruption, without sacrificing your reserves. Freedom to pursue your real goals, without being attacked or sneaking around.
-[x]Point out that she knows a teleporter and we're willing to accommodate visits any time.
-[x]I'm certain I can even help you with what you were trying to do in Ishinomaki, if you'll let me.
-[x]All I'm asking right now is that you stop hounding the University Group.
-[x]The enemy of the magical girl isn't each other. It isn't the witch. Our enemy is the system. I want to change that, but I need you to work with me. Please.
[x]If we're met with stonewall or refusal:
-[x]To Akiko: One way or another your extortion of the University girls is going to stop. If we can't come to a peaceful agreement, then for any further "payments" you'll have to go through us. Please reconsider, I don't want to start that fight, but I will end it if you force my hand.
-[x]Start talking to her teammates, Rin and Sakura and relayed to the other girls if possible. Explain what we've just heard, with a focus on all the contradictions. Do they really want to try and demand 30 seeds from a group that they know can't afford it and force us to side with the University group if they refuse? Or would they be willing to work for peace with us?
[x]Reassure Rin. This isn't her fault.
[x]To Rin and Sakura: Is she okay?
[x]Telepathy to Akiko:
-[x]Do you actually believe that, Akiko? Kato Setsuko is dead. Yet you're trying to heal her. Grief seeds bring safety and security. Yet they've brought you a war. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. There are other ways. Allies you don't have to pay. Soul gems and grief seeds emptied of corruption, without sacrificing your reserves. Freedom to pursue your real goals, without being attacked or sneaking around.
-[x]Point out that she knows a teleporter and we're willing to accommodate visits any time.
-[x]I'm certain I can even help you with what you were trying to do in Ishinomaki, if you'll let me.
-[x]All I'm asking right now is that you stop hounding the University Group.
-[x]The enemy of the magical girl isn't each other. It isn't the witch. Our enemy is the system. I want to change that, but I need you to work with me. Please.
[x]If we're met with stonewall or refusal:
-[x]To Akiko: One way or another your extortion of the University girls is going to stop. If we can't come to a peaceful agreement, then for any further "payments" you'll have to go through us. Please reconsider, I don't want to start that fight, but I will end it if you force my hand.
-[x]Start talking to her teammates, Rin and Sakura and relayed to the other girls if possible. Explain what we've just heard, with a focus on all the contradictions. Do they really want to try and demand 30 seeds from a group that they know can't afford it and force us to side with the University group if they refuse? Or would they be willing to work for peace with us?
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I'll just steal the wording from the other vote. Edited.
Why this? We're going to look like an idiot if she is just ultra paranoid of witching and not trying to revive Kato Setsuko. Everything else seems fine.
[jk] Save the game. Time for risky dialogue choices!
`
The Ishinomaki group told us that Akiko showed up there a long time ago blaming them for Setsuko's "death" - whatever is going on is not new, in the sense that a simple explanation like "she died because Rin wasn't able to get to her to heal her today" would be. Setsuko has been "dead" (or whatever's really wrong with her) for a while.
She told Rin, and confirmed when Rin told us, that the reason Rin was in Ishinomaki was to heal someone called Kato Setsuko.
The Ishinomaki group told us that Akiko showed up there a long time ago blaming them for Setsuko's "death" - whatever is going on is not new, in the sense that a simple explanation like "she died because Rin wasn't able to get to her to heal her today" would be. Setsuko has been "dead" (or whatever's really wrong with her) for a while.
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