we only have people imprisoned bevause we dont yet a a community to release them into thats strong enough to resist thier force,
Well, communities like Miracle Village kinda fit that description, I guess? if only because I don't know of any other examples that might fit.

Anyway, back on subject. Personal thoughts on Anarchy aside (don't see it as bad as it's made to be, also don't see how it could be implemented on a larger scale), I agree with @SaltyWaffles position that we aren't really in a position yet to try and change anything about that, or try and spread those ideals out yet. Get the counsil on good terms with us first, then we can do it.
 
Well, communities like Miracle Village kinda fit that description, I guess? if only because I don't know of any other examples that might fit.

Anyway, back on subject. Personal thoughts on Anarchy aside (don't see it as bad as it's made to be, also don't see how it could be implemented on a larger scale), I agree with @SaltyWaffles position that we aren't really in a position yet to try and change anything about that, or try and spread those ideals out yet. Get the counsil on good terms with us first, then we can do it.
i meant more that mitakihara can only really handle one orikou at a time
 
Well, communities like Miracle Village kinda fit that description, I guess? if only because I don't know of any other examples that might fit.
I understand how anime might have given you that impression, but being a sex offender does not in itself make someone powerful enough to fight a battleship. If we want somewhere we can exile Iowa to and trust that they won't just go back to doing their thing, we're probably going to have to put them on some other celestial body.
 
I understand how anime might have given you that impression, but being a sex offender does not in itself make someone powerful enough to fight a battleship. If we want somewhere we can exile Iowa to and trust that they won't just go back to doing their thing, we're probably going to have to put them on some other celestial body.
NOT WHAT I MEANT. I thought he was talking about real life, as in what to do with people in prison in real life. I didn't realize the context of that post.

You don't really think I'd actually advocate for sending teenagers to that place, do you? I'm nuts, but not that nuts. I'm sorry if that was the impression I gave off.
 
I'm aware. I had no idea what you did mean, but I did figure you had misunderstood something.
Ok, thank you. That set me off harder than it probably should have , tbh.

As for the prisoner situation... Yeah, i got nothing. I mean, putting them on another celestial body sounds fine, until you look at the logistics and figure out quickly there is no way in hell we can do that with the current resources on hand and the shit we have to do. Unless we wanna have a go at barrier making again (fat fucking chance), the current method of confinement seems to be all we've got.

Speaking of which, do we have any set schedule to speak with them at all? I assume they won't just be forgotten about.
 
Ok, thank you. That set me off harder than it probably should have , tbh.

As for the prisoner situation... Yeah, i got nothing. I mean, putting them on another celestial body sounds fine, until you look at the logistics and figure out quickly there is no way in hell we can do that with the current resources on hand and the shit we have to do. Unless we wanna have a go at barrier making again (fat fucking chance), the current method of confinement seems to be all we've got.

Speaking of which, do we have any set schedule to speak with them at all? I assume they won't just be forgotten about.
Yeah, we've got plans for a moon base, but until we get around to that all we've got is confinement in Fukushima.

I don't think we do. I guess the next time we're in Fukushima for more than just picking someone up?
 
Iowa isn't that hard to deal with (considering the situation). Claim a building in the middle of nowhere, make sure it has power (a gas generator should suffice but we can also probably charge some battery's using one by simply turning the motor ourselves), put their gems in contact with a clear seed, hold them together with a antimagic enchanted steel enclosure, place this in a 5m sphere of steel (with heavy steelroots to lock it into the ground) bury the enclosure 6m underground, draw a perimeter about ~90m wide to designate how far they can go before gemming, make sure they've got books, snacks and maybe some video games, perhaps a tv with antenna, and just check up on them periodically.

Can probably create a simple water tower to make sure they can shower and have drinking water.

It isn't the best, but it's simpler than having to watch them all the time.
 
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Iowa isn't that hard to deal with (considering the situation). Claim a building in the middle of nowhere, make sure it has power (a gas generator should suffice but we can also probably charge some battery's using one by simply turning the motor ourselves), put their gems in contact with a clear seed, hold them together with a antimagic enchanted steel enclosure, place this in a 5m sphere of steel (with heavy steelroots to lock it into the ground) bury the enclosure 6m underground, draw a perimeter about ~90m wide to designate how far they can go before gemming, make sure they've got books, snacks and maybe some video games, perhaps a tv with antenna, and just check up on them periodically.

Can probably create a simple water tower to make sure they can shower and have drinking water.

It isn't the best, but it's simpler than having to watch them all the time.
Antimagic won't stop the Iowa. It's her weapon, not her magic.
 
Yes?

Anarchism is a perfectly valid basis to build a society on - especially a society that is already primarily composed of small groups who stick together through voluntary association.

In a lot of ways well-meaning anarchy with mutual agreements would be a simpler system to implement in the magical girl world (which is currently in a lawless and self-devouring state of predation) than trying to impose a strict hierarchy.

Note also that Constellations response to the Iowa Group (isolating them from the community, with the intent to provide assistance to help them rehabilitate, with the goal of peace, not vengeance) is entirely in line with anarchist writings on the topic of violent crime.
Oh it certainly has the possibility to work for meguca because of extremely low population density, I was referring to Godwins point of all authority being something that humanity should be getting rid of in general.

Not that I should have responded to that, because derail, but still.

Antimagic won't stop the Iowa. It's her weapon, not her magic.

That is actually a very interesting question, because while the physical ship wont disappear, will it keep flying?
 
Oh it certainly has the possibility to work for meguca because of extremely low population density, I was referring to Godwins point of all authority being something that humanity should be getting rid of in general.
The answer isn't going to stop being yes.
That is actually a very interesting question, because while the physical ship wont disappear, will it keep flying?
Also yes, since I'm pretty sure Kirika used her antimagic during the fight.
 
What was the range on that again? Does it cover the entire ship? I don't remember.

I don't recall if a precise range was ever given, but I'm fairly sure that it didn't encompass the whole battleship. Otherwise, the fight would have been even less of a challenge than it was. I don't think we have enough information currently on whether an anti-magic field encompassing the whole of the Iowa would be sufficient to stop it from flying, but even if it was, we'd need an anti-magic field encompassing about 95000 cubic meters, which would be quite the challenge. This consideration would also raise the question of how the ship may interact with a steel enclosure encompassing decidedly less volume than the ship itself.

Personally, I think it would be difficult to contain the Iowa group with anything less than the current measures, unless they have been rehabilitated. They almost certainly cannot be left unguarded, lest they devise some means of escape with their diverse assortment of powers. There is also the concern of whether we should try to rehabilitate them rather than confine them indefinitely in an underground facility with no one other than their fellow raiders for company. Such confinement strikes me as at least a little inhumane, although perhaps proportionate to their crimes.
 
Well honestly the best idea would be for them to be kept separate, and made to form new bonds with people who aren't raiders, to help dissociate them from their past lives.
 
There is also the concern of whether we should try to rehabilitate them rather than confine them indefinitely in an underground facility with no one other than their fellow raiders for company. Such confinement strikes me as at least a little inhumane, although perhaps proportionate to their crimes.
It is only our lack of resources and time that is preventing us from getting the rehabilitation programs started. The current imprisonment was always intended to be a temporary measure done in order to avoid the Freezer like we went with for Rionnnna. Personally, I think the Freezer would have been a more humane temporary option, but the thread concensus was against me on that one. Presumably because it would be a lot easier to just forget about someone in the Freezer and let the temporary measure become defacto permanent without us meaning it to than it would when said girls are still conscious and able to complain about their conditions.
 
Well honestly the best idea would be for them to be kept separate, and made to form new bonds with people who aren't raiders, to help dissociate them from their past lives.

That does sound like a pretty good idea, provided that we can find people they'd be willing to form genuine bonds with, and who are willing to form genuine bonds with serial murderers in turn. These people certainly exist, particularly if we include the non-magical population into the pool of potential bonds, but it's probably going to take a while to find them and cause the formation of bonds with them. This solution may have a longer time horizon than the Fukushima group is willing to accept, given their reluctance to be indefinite jailors.

It is only our lack of resources and time that is preventing us from getting the rehabilitation programs started. The current imprisonment was always intended to be a temporary measure done in order to avoid the Freezer like we went with for Rionnnna. Personally, I think the Freezer would have been a more humane temporary option, but the thread concensus was against me on that one. Presumably because it would be a lot easier to just forget about someone in the Freezer and let the temporary measure become defacto permanent without us meaning it to than it would when said girls are still conscious and able to complain about their conditions.

That helps assuage my concerns quite a bit, although it does raise the question of why underground containment was brought up in the first place.

Also, to add my thoughts to the ongoing conversation concerning magical anarchy, I think one thing that is being omitted from the debate is the external forces that may act upon the magical community and the impact that they may have on the viability of anarchy. I think we've been acting under the assumption that magic will eventually be exposed to the non-magical community as a necessary consequence of our objective to end magical scarcity, so I won't dwell over that logic. Under that assumption, I think we'd need to consider what non-magical states may choose to do in response to this revelation. I think the notion that they would seek to exploit magic for both internal and external security, among other things, is uncontroversial. Therefore, the magical community needs a way to counter misuse of magic by states aiming to attack other states, conduct espionage on other states and/or their own citizens, or to ensure the internal security of the state by suppressing dissent. This need is accentuated by the real possibility that states with insufficient respect for liberty--which, for our purposes, is most of them--may seek to pressure individual meguca or small groups of the same to aid them, whether through social pressures, coercive force aimed at their loved ones/community, or direct coercive force. We also can't discount the fact that meguca who are attached to their countries or who want the compensation that states can give may join states willingly and abuse their powers under the state's authority. I think it's clear that localized mutual aid, or even ad hoc reactions from the magical community as an uncoordinated whole, would not necessarily be able to respond to this threat adequately.

Other external forces, such as terrorist groups, criminal organizations, and the Incubators, may also act upon the magical community in ways that threaten the viability of anarchy, but if I keep going on about them, this post will turn into a full-blown essay, so I'll leave it at this for now.
 
Does anyone have any ideas what we could say to out group, now that we have a moment for last minute discussions?
 
Yes?

Anarchism is a perfectly valid basis to build a society on - especially a society that is already primarily composed of small groups who stick together through voluntary association.

In a lot of ways well-meaning anarchy with mutual agreements would be a simpler system to implement in the magical girl world (which is currently in a lawless and self-devouring state of predation) than trying to impose a strict hierarchy.
This may be contrarian, but I'm personally somewhat skeptical of the viability of pure anarchy at large scale (greater than 10,000 people) in the long term (longer than a century). I expect that if groups can stay around for long enough, I would expect agreements will accumulate into factions. And factionalism ruins so many things. Additionally, I expect that there will need to be some concept of legitimate violence as long as bad actors exist, and I think it's neither plausible nor desirable to preemptively eliminate all bad actors (although solving resource scarcity would go a long way toward effectively eliminating most bad actors under the current system and we should 100% do that).

Great, now I'm wondering about the legal and ethical framework for if some magical girl wanted to offer the memory implants of Total Recall as a service. And now I'm thinking about magical society shifting from a resource economy to a service economy.
 
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I second the skepticism, saying that anarchy is the best form of governance is similar to speaking well of a benevolent dictatorship. It works in theory perhaps, but in practice, people are people. We are simply too flawed for such things to work on pure theory
 
The one thing that's consistent about anarchy is that it doesn't last. The power hungry always rush to fill the vacuum, and the default government setting coming out of anarchy is Feudalism, or warlords, which are the worst government types when it comes to providing a nice place to live and protecting human rights. Constructing a society where atrocities aren't beneficial to the ruling class, let alone everyone, is a careful balancing act of freedom against order, justice against mercy, one that can't be achieved by tearing everything down and hoping for the best.
 
I should note that I'm somewhat inspired by Jo Freeman's essay The Tyranny of Structurelessness, wherein she advocates against anarchy within the second wave feminist movement. The problem of informal hierarchies would be solved by making those informal hierarchies into formal hierarchies, which can then be regulated by democratic procedure.

I'm not sure we need to worry about feudalism as a problem in the short term because feudalism is based on the security of having a feudal lord as a social safety net (albeit, one with no de jure obligation to provide social services or direct consequence for failing to do so, beyond the possibility of a peasant's rebellion), which isn't a problem if we can get resource production significantly above subsistence. Additionally, for non-grief seed resources, there's a fallback to the existing system of nation-states, which is imperfect, but better than feudalism in many places.

Though not all. I'm not saying we can't overthrow tyrannical governments. I'm just saying that we need a plan to feed, house, treat, and police an entire country before doing so. And I think we would need a bureaucracy on the order of a nation-state to manage that without causing a huge humanitarian crisis. And it's better for organizations to be governed by laws not people.

This kind of got away from me.
 
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This may be contrarian, but I'm personally somewhat skeptical of the viability of pure anarchy at large scale (greater than 10,000 people) in the long term (longer than a century). I expect that if groups can stay around for long enough, I would expect agreements will accumulate into factions. And factionalism ruins so many things. Additionally, I expect that there will need to be some concept of legitimate violence as long as bad actors exist, and I think it's neither plausible nor desirable to preemptively eliminate all bad actors (although solving resource scarcity would go a long way toward effectively eliminating most bad actors under the current system and we should 100% do that).

Great, now I'm wondering about the legal and ethical framework for if some magical girl wanted to offer the memory implants of Total Recall as a service. And now I'm thinking about magical society shifting from a resource economy to a service economy.

this is more a critique of democracy in general rather than anarchist democracy specifically... also, as an anarchist i obviously dont agree with the premis but i dont want to argue at length about it

we need to find some well adjusted adults to adopt our murderous problem children. iowa orphanage 😹

given the powers at thier disposal, the magical community wont have any issues protecting itsself or thier entangled relations so long as they are organised and not starving. oh, how did this constellation pamphlet get here? ;)
 
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