I'm not saying Madoka made her wish on the 28th, I'm saying that Madoka's wish rolling back time has no need to go back as far as Homura's arrival to the timeline. Madoka's wish having actual time-travel to it, rather than the rip-off version that Homura got stuck with.
 
I'm not saying Madoka made her wish on the 28th, I'm saying that Madoka's wish rolling back time has no need to go back as far as Homura's arrival to the timeline. Madoka's wish having actual time-travel to it, rather than the rip-off version that Homura got stuck with.

Alright, but why did she roll time back to the 28th instead of all the way to the 16th?

I'm not cliticizing your theory, it's acrually pretty interesting, but it still doesn't explain the question I'm most interested in: why did the quest start when it did?
 
Well, the 28th is likely the earliest the necessary elements were all there.

You needed a Madoka and Sayaka with Kyubey to find Sabrina. They needed to have already been introduced to Mami (Mami's initial positive impression of them relies on them being utterly new potentials, after all), and in a location remote enough that Sabrina could pop in just before their arrival, but also at a time when Homura wasn't poised to immediately intervene (considering Madoka wished to save a cat, a dying human in front of Madoka is a big emergency), so she needs to be busy somewhere else.
 
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Alright, but why did she roll time back to the 28th instead of all the way to the 16th?

I'm not cliticizing your theory, it's acrually pretty interesting, but it still doesn't explain the question I'm most interested in: why did the quest start when it did?
Rather, why would those two dates need to coincide? Homura's and hypothetical Madokami's time shenanigans are largely unrelated. The latter could easily be whatever date is easiest to write the quest from.
Edit: Actually, no: from what she's told us, Homura seems to think she did loop normally and arrived at the 16th.
The question that remains is indeed "why did the quest start when it did?"; if Madokami looped all the way to the 16th, why didn't we materialize at the same time?
 
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Rather, why would those two dates need to coincide? Homura's and hypothetical Madokami's time shenanigans are largely unrelated. The latter could easily be whatever date is easiest to write the quest from.

Because, with apologies to Homura, she needed the help the earliest she could get it.

Well, the 28th is likely the earliest the necessary elements were all there.

You needed a Madoka and Sayaka with Kyubey to find Sabrina. They needed to have already been introduced to Mami (Mami's initial positive impression of them relies on them being utterly new potentials, after all), and in a location remote enough that Sabrina could pop in just before their arrival, but also at a time when Homura wasn't poised to immediately intervene (considering Madoka wished to save a cat, a dying human in front of Madoka is a big emergency), so she needs to be busy somewhere else.

Just by the anime, there were those times on the school roof when Homura wouldn't have interfered.
... I guess a dying girl is a bit unappetizing, so Madoka just didn't want to ruin her past self's lunch.
 
Well, yeah?

Didn't the whole thing where she casually one-handedly blocks stuff Sayaka's putting her full strength into show that? :V

Okay look that was only normal holding back this is a couple OOMs more dangit


Anyway


Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Okay my only contribution to this round of voting, I -think-, is

[] Make sure to compliment Kyouko and Yuma. They pulled out some really impressive stuff here.

Because KoYu deserve encourage :D
 
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Because, with apologies to Homura, she needed the help the earliest she could get it.



Just by the anime, there were those times on the school roof when Homura wouldn't have interfered.
... I guess a dying girl is a bit unappetizing, so Madoka just didn't want to ruin her past self's lunch.
I think that's a reason for us not to have shown up at the start. It's about the people, right? And if we'd shown up before Madoka and Sayaka met Mami there's a nonzero chance that we would've joined Homura in her efforts to keep them away from everything.

Being found in an alley is a very different situation from openly appearing out of thin air on a roof.
 
So I've been thinking of the planning for the next few days, and I've got a proposal.

We've intentionally kept our schedule as free as possible on the coming Monday, since that's when Oriko predicted the Soujus would show up.

We've also gotten some hints that we should be doing more hunting to deal with Mitakihara's witches.

So here's my proposal: This Monday, Sabrina, Sayaka, and Kyouko will spend the entire day scouring Mitakihara from top to bottom. Sayaka's got clones so she won't need to skip class, and the whole day can basically count as an extended lesson from Kyouko to Sayaka.

If we spot the Soujos, we can react appropriately. But in the meantime, we'll annihilate every single witch we find. Between Sabrina's grief sense, Sayaka making clones with enhanced senses, and the combat power that team has, we'll probably be able to mulch a sizeable chunk of the entire witch population.

Once school ends Mami can join in and we can do a soul-snuggle ribbon search over the entire city to pick off any stragglers, while Homura stays on overwatch over Madoka.

Thoughts?
 
Well, anyway, it seems like Homura believes she has looped, which only works out if she did things differently starting from the hospital.

The problem is, she remembers the previous loop, more or less, while nobody else does. If she didn't loop herself, that means someone preserved her memories, a month worth of them at that. Madokami could have done it, I guess, but why didn't she do it for anyone else? Sayaka and Kyouko would have benefitted immensely from the future knowledge, not even talking about Mami, even if they were just vague visions of the Stuff You Shouldn't Do.
 
I mean I'd even argue that the universe is going to push back against madowish cuz that's canon and things would have been comparatively really easy for us I'd we'd shown up before Homu got herself fire extinguisher'ed &c

So I've been thinking of the planning for the next few days, and I've got a proposal.

We've intentionally kept our schedule as free as possible on the coming Monday, since that's when Oriko predicted the Soujus would show up.

We've also gotten some hints that we should be doing more hunting to deal with Mitakihara's witches.

So here's my proposal: This Monday, Sabrina, Sayaka, and Kyouko will spend the entire day scouring Mitakihara from top to bottom. Sayaka's got clones so she won't need to skip class, and the whole day can basically count as an extended lesson from Kyouko to Sayaka.

If we spot the Soujos, we can react appropriately. But in the meantime, we'll annihilate every single witch we find. Between Sabrina's grief sense, Sayaka making clones with enhanced senses, and the combat power that team has, we'll probably be able to mulch a sizeable chunk of the entire witch population.

Once school ends Mami can join in and we can do a soul-snuggle ribbon search over the entire city to pick off any stragglers, while Homura stays on overwatch over Madoka.

Thoughts?

The specifics of the implementation might vary but I definitely agree with this notion. We need to kill a bunch of witches, Sayaka could really stand to kill a few witches by herself it'd be good for her, and yeah fuck the soujus.

Dunno if it'd take all day or nah but definitely we need to do this.
 
Huh, last time we sparred with Homu she used airsoft rifles. Guess Yuma is dangerous enough for live ammo?

Lol, Yuma and Kyouko warrant more effort than Sabrina, even if it's "Switch to live ammo".

Okay, Homura, I see how it is. :V

Tbh, we didn't really spar spar with Homura. It would have started with grief nanofog in ten meter radius ready to become ablative armor at a moment's notice and then gone downhill from there.

Really rather like a fight with Walpurgisnacht, actually.

Homura doesn't have any magic to immobilize or overpower us, and she can't timestop and come near us without tripping on Grief, so it'd be just a waste of time and ammo, if she didn't want to seriously injure us with explosives.
 
So, if Homura's shield is facing that way, either she didn't loop or there was another loop between, or she had some different arrangement of loops before the 'canon' one.

The second option would be weird for Homura to lie about, so if it was the reason for the difference, it'd have to be something that removed Homura's memory of it... and something that is still relevant to this timeline. If that's the case, then a good case could be made for this being Feathers.

The third option is... weird. We know there are other 'lines' of Homura out there, from MagiReco (though that isn't necessarily true in PMAS), which could just make this a curiosity.

The first option, though? Homura's shield is facing the same way because she didn't loop. Because this is the same universe as the one where Madoka made her wish that "Everything could be fixed". This would solve one of the oldest minor mysteries in the quest -- "Why did Sabrina show up on March 28th instead of March 16th, when the loop begins?" -- because Sabrina's arrival was immediately after Madoka's wish, which is why she glimpsed Madokami. Why would we see Madokami in a world where witches exist? Because she wished that everything could be fixed, and all those little changes in the background, and in how well things are going is because this Madokami is the Goddess of Things Going Well, rather than the Goddess of Saving Magical Girls From Becoming Witches.

And really, when you stop to think about it, why on earth would Madoka's wish settle for fixing things in some other universe Homura is going to, when she can fix everything in that universe instead?

I would minorly nitpick that it could just be the Goddess of Saving Magical Girls from Becoming Witches just poking in to do all the minor timeline-altering things we're accrediting to her, because even outside of Magireco we have implications of Madokami atleast observing in shit where she really shouldn't be. Hell, Firn wrote an omake to that effect. ^_^

Especially since in Optimal Golden End, Sabrina creates a witch-free universe and will probably de-witch every Grief Seed.

ALSO UH YEAH the possibility that Homura witched out last 'loop' just became VERY close to 100% certain in my mind. We should.... um.

We MIGHT. Want to STRONGLY consider pointing out the shield to Homura and seeing how she reacts, but my worry is that might trigger similar flags to the Potentialbomb.

Well, anyway, it seems like Homura believes she has looped, which only works out if she did things differently starting from the hospital.

The problem is, she remembers the previous loop, more or less, while nobody else does. If she didn't loop herself, that means someone preserved her memories, a month worth of them at that. Madokami could have done it, I guess, but why didn't she do it for anyone else? Sayaka and Kyouko would have benefitted immensely from the future knowledge, not even talking about Mami, even if they were just vague visions of the Stuff You Shouldn't Do.

I mean to be fair, there's canon instances where Homura's memory remembers previous universes just because she has time magic, even if she's not the one looping.

...If we asked her to lob a grenade at us in order to check whether we can block the shrapnel and the concussion, would she?

Absolutely, she would.
 
So, if Homura's shield is facing that way, either she didn't loop or there was another loop between, or she had some different arrangement of loops before the 'canon' one.

The second option would be weird for Homura to lie about, so if it was the reason for the difference, it'd have to be something that removed Homura's memory of it... and something that is still relevant to this timeline. If that's the case, then a good case could be made for this being Feathers.

The third option is... weird. We know there are other 'lines' of Homura out there, from MagiReco (though that isn't necessarily true in PMAS), which could just make this a curiosity.

The first option, though? Homura's shield is facing the same way because she didn't loop. Because this is the same universe as the one where Madoka made her wish that "Everything could be fixed". This would solve one of the oldest minor mysteries in the quest -- "Why did Sabrina show up on March 28th instead of March 16th, when the loop begins?" -- because Sabrina's arrival was immediately after Madoka's wish, which is why she glimpsed Madokami. Why would we see Madokami in a world where witches exist? Because she wished that everything could be fixed, and all those little changes in the background, and in how well things are going is because this Madokami is the Goddess of Things Going Well, rather than the Goddess of Saving Magical Girls From Becoming Witches.

And really, when you stop to think about it, why on earth would Madoka's wish settle for fixing things in some other universe Homura is going to, when she can fix everything in that universe instead?
Yeah, this has been my go-to assumption for some time. That reality was spliced to return to the appropriate moment (with appropriate changes to history) and truncated to narrow down possibilities, instead of simply reset in a better world.

On which note, It occurs to me that one way for an edit of reality to show up, like I often find because of my writing style, is to get, well, errors as a result of the edit. Points where grammar and structure is broken (or moments in time are inappropriate) because they're holdovers from a previous pass. Thus, it may be worthwhile to look for such errors.

Such as a relevant question that's been on my mind for some time: Would a Homura two weeks out of the hospital be so visibly unhealthy? as opposed to one who had neglected herself for a month and a half?

Beyond that, that feels like something we could ask Oriko for help with. The moment is long gone, but evidence may still linger.

RE: talking to homura

The track I'm first inclined to use here is that Asunaro showed us that our knowledge isn't always correct, aren't always and we've seen some indication that our knowledge of the last timeline is wrong. For one thing...

A couple possibilities here. First, that rather than fixing everything, Madoka made it impossible for witches to exist.
Second, point out that something's up with Homura's shield

In conclusion, however, we need to look into what might be different than we know.

Questions:
Did Sayaka witch out, or die some other way?
What happened to Kyouko as a result?
etc.
 
...If we asked her to lob a grenade at us in order to check whether we can block the shrapnel and the concussion, would she?
With the sense of humour she's been showing bit by bit, I could see us asking her if she would be willing to throw grenades at us for practice and her immediately and wordlessly tossing one at us and letting us figure out that she didn't pull the pin on our own time.
 
On a side thought, are we the only meguca who isn't naturally waterproof? Because it seems like no one else cares, while we were making an umbrella.
 
So, I feel compelled to respond to the speculation as regards talking with Homura about her shield.

Generally? I think we shouldn't be doing it at the moment.

The thing is, since roughly one point five days ago IC we have access to options IMMEASURABLY superior to blindly poking at things that might be triggers for Homura. We should be exploring those options *before* we do anything else with Homura's issues.

To be more specific...

Recall that Homura sees the people around her as being contiguous across loops. Initially this was a roadblock for us: now it's an asset, because it means that she sees our Mami and past Mamis as being one and the same.

This means that it is within Mami's purview, as one of the people who "suffered the consequences of Homura's actions", to *judge Homura's actions and their results.* Remember that scene in Rebellion at the park? Where Homura asks Madoka what she'd want? The scene that pushes Homura to go out and fucking tear down Madokami?

*Pauses for collective "oh, fuck"*

Yeah, so, like that, way lessened by it being Mami instead of Madoka, but positive, informed, and centered on some message like "Homura, you did the right thing by looping, even if it didn't work, even if it hurt us, I'd rather be fighting this than not."

If we can pull that off with Mami and then encore it with as much of the rest of the cast as possible... I mean, replicating that with Sayaka is starting to look like it will be possible inside a week IC. And Sayaka... Sayaka can speak to Madoka's opinion.

*Spreads hands*

I can have this pulled off with Mami by Monday morning IC no problem. If you go reread the loopbomb, this is nothing more than a very careful extension of what happened there, building off of us encouraging Mami to believe she can help people and off of our much earlier conversation with Homura about how she feels about the loops. And despite how simple it is to pull off, it's a huge game changer. I need, like, one-two posts of us grabbing Mami to go over some stuff on Homura and that's basically it for prereqs.

So, yeah, basically, let's put off poking Homura about her shield until we get that done? I promise you, it will be a *lot* safer that way.





...

On a different note, I had another idea after rereading loopbomb...

"Mm." Mami nods, the curls of her hair brushing over your shirt with a soft rustle. "Actually... one question?"

"Mm?" you echo.

"There's... there's more secrets, right? And one of them is the one that... you were worried about telling me?" Mami asks, slow and careful.

"Yeah," you say. Unease prickles down your spine. "Why do you ask?"

"I just wanted to be sure," Mami says. "Morbid fascination of a sort?" She reaches up, curling her fingers gently through your hair.

"Oh," you say. You'd promised, but the thought still sits ill with you. It doesn't feel like this is the right time, and you're terrified of... breaking Mami again. "I... I did promise I'd tell you, if you wanted to know."

"I know," Mami murmurs. You twitch a little when her finger slides gently against the shell of your ear, exploring curiously. "I... maybe another time."

"Are you sure?" you ask.

"Are you?" Mami counters. She disengages a little, far enough to inspect your face. "It's... really eating you up, isn't it?"

"It's... complicated," you say after a moment. "I want to tell you. I don't like keeping secrets, least of all from you. But I'm scared."

Mami nods, solemn and serious. "And you're trying to figure out how and when to tell me?"

"Yeah," you say, biting your lip. "It's just... it's hard."

"Then alright," Mami says. She settles back against your side. "Tell me, when you figure it out."

"That simple?" You can't stop yourself from asking, poking at it like an itching scab. "What if I never figure it out?"

"It is, and you will," Mami says. "I trust you, Sabrina."

"Oh." What else can you say to that? "I... I won't let you down."

What if we take the witchbomb, and we *bust it up*?

Like, I can't believe I hadn't conceived of this before it's so fucking simple. We can just take out the nastier parts of the witchbomb, and we can just say "Yeah so after we contract QB wants us dead for energy. But he's an enlightened evil scumbag and figures he's better off making it all seem pretty and whatnot so he doesn't just outright try to get people killed very often." And we just leave that as "yeah this is part of that damn thing."

I don't really want to drop that *right now*. But, uh, it seems to me that at this point Mami will believe us that this is part of the secret and trust that we'll make it to the rest of it at some point -- she about said as much. And, well, this hurts a whole lot less than the witchbomb while knocking out a sizeable chunk of that bomb and giving Mami a way, way better picture of the worldview.

It's not something I'd suggest for anyone else, but... Mami *got* us on the whole thing in that post. She's... She would be okay with the half truth until we could figure out the other half to her, she basically said as much.

So, yeah, that's an idea.



On a side thought, are we the only meguca who isn't naturally waterproof? Because it seems like no one else cares, while we were making an umbrella.

...

[X] Stop using an umbrella
-[X] Use magic to stay dry

This is actually a bad habit of ours, solving the simpler problems with grief instead of growing more familiar with magic.
 
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