I can move to the further discrimination - is Causality a unary measure unto itself, or is it always bound to the events of history it will result in specifically? This is very important!

The way Kyubey seems to make it sound, what with his reference to those who would become world leaders and or saviors, it sounds like the greater butterfly effect your actions would have caused in life generates in equal measure the causality/ karma attached to you. For an example: Cleopatra VII's reign resulted in tumult for her people while having a dispute with her brother Ptolemy XIII, followed by her relationships with Julius Caesar and Marc Antony, her war with Octavian, ending with her death and the soon-to-be Roman Empire annexing the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt as one of its Provinces. Good-or-ill, one cannot deny that her actions had lasting consequences, cause, and effect... causality... karma. We even have a side story where we actually see what happens when a "savior" level girl becomes a Magical Girl: Puella Magi Tart Magica, the one about Joan of Arc... and Joan has been shown to be ludicrously powerful in her own right, right down to even having her own Magical Seal when firing off her most powerful spell:


So I imagine, succinctly, it basically can be summed up thus:
"The greater and or longer your actions touch on other peoples lives, the greater your potential becomes."
 
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Huh. I wonder what Sabrina's magical seal is, and what level of power we'd need to be outputting for it to manifest.

Madoka: Circular themed (her name, her eventual ascension as the Law of Cycles, makes sense really.)
Homura: Diamond themed (Most likely Causality, as mentioned earlier. The Clara Dolls being born from her Causality/ Karma probably confirm this)
Joan of Arc: Fleur-de-lis themed (Vive la France! Eats a croissant with soda pop like a double-plus ungood heathen.)
Iroha: Heart themed (given her wish for Ui, again, makes sense)

Suzune apparently inherited a smaller magical seal for fire magic from her Mentor, Tsubaki (odd, but since it is smaller, could infer that while powerful it's not on the same level as say Madoka or Homura. Also circular themed as well... huh, odd one out there too.):

For Sabrina... hum... actually, her full power seal could help infer some things about her. Would it be an amalgam of Homura and Madoka's seals? Would it be gear like? Would it be... wait.... duh.

Sabrina: Star themed.
 
I wonder what Sabrina's magical seal is,

For Sabrina... hum... actually, her full power seal could help infer some things about her. Would it be an amalgam of Homura and Madoka's seals? Would it be gear like? Would it be... wait.... duh.

Sabrina: Star themed.

Other variants:

A giant picture of Mami in the sky.

A Whack-A-Mole mallet.

An SV logo.

Actually, yes, I think it would be something like a shooting star... triggering a mass extinction event with its impact, probably.
 
Actually, yes, I think it would be something like a shooting star... triggering a mass extinction event with its impact, probably.

Sabrina: Well on the bright side we can now conclusively answer whether there is life on Europa. Unfortunately the question of whether there was life on Europa 5 minutes ago will go forever unanswered.
 
For Sabrina... hum... actually, her full power seal could help infer some things about her. Would it be an amalgam of Homura and Madoka's seals? Would it be gear like? Would it be... wait.... duh.

Sabrina: Star themed.
Actually, I think it would be slightly different than that:

The symbol on our soul gem is an impactor striking the wold. Thus, any seal would probably be meteor themed, or something similar the represents the celestial being brought crashing to Earth.

Which you could argue also matches one of our ambitions: To bring the end of witches that was once the domain of the Law of Cycles alone, or something in the same vein, to the world of the living.
 
Let me get to the punchline.

Is Causality / Potential commutative.

As in, if one has the possibility to affect the Universe more, one has a higher Causality variable. If one's amount of Causality was increased, would the Universe have to allow that person a control over it, as a response?

This is interestingfor practical reasons? I'm interested...

Madoka: Circular themed (her name, her eventual ascension as the Law of Cycles, makes sense really.)
Homura: Diamond themed (Most likely Causality, as mentioned earlier. The Clara Dolls being born from her Causality/ Karma probably confirm this)
Joan of Arc: Fleur-de-lis themed (Vive la France! Eats a croissant with soda pop like a double-plus ungood heathen.)
Iroha: Heart themed (given her wish for Ui, again, makes sense)

Suzune apparently inherited a smaller magical seal for fire magic from her Mentor, Tsubaki (odd, but since it is smaller, could infer that while powerful it's not on the same level as say Madoka or Homura. Also circular themed as well... huh, odd one out there too.):

For Sabrina... hum... actually, her full power seal could help infer some things about her. Would it be an amalgam of Homura and Madoka's seals? Would it be gear like? Would it be... wait.... duh.

Sabrina: Star themed.

Given our base abilities, and the way those manifest for Sabrina, our spell seal has three major aspects:
One, there should be and IDE screen in the sky. Burning green phosphor, ASCII glyphs, syntax, whatnot.
Two, we would choose the Triangle, for it's better properties in design and engineering.
Three, a productive / coercive Hammer is always welcome?
 
As in, if one has the possibility to affect the Universe more, one has a higher Causality variable. If one's amount of Causality was increased, would the Universe have to allow that person a control over it, as a response?

As Rebellion seems to indicate, given the right circumstances, the answer would be: Yes.

Let's break this question down, and from there the reason for the answer should be gleaned:

To suggest one has universal/ cosmic scale Karma/ Causality, then you are suggesting the fate of the Universe rests on their shoulders, or that their actions in some way would affect things on a Cosmic Level. For example, let's say 14-year-old AU Female Anakin Skywalker met Kyubey. Frustrated with the increased scrutiny over her training, her unorthodox ideas about the Force, and a myriad of personal emotional issues... Kyubey beats Palpatine to the punch by offering her his trademark deal, turning her into a Magical Jedi Girl. Her potential would be categorized by lightyears due to her destiny as The Chosen One, a Galactic Savior meant to restore balance to the transgalactic law of nature known as The Force. Suffice to say, Anakin would have a cosmic level Causality due to the number of lives she would affect by her actions, be they good or ill... especially ill if she fell to the Dark Side as per canon.

Now lets up the ante to answer the second half of your question, let's say this same universe coincides with one where Madokami still reigns supreme. Depending on how Anakin words her wish, or how powerful her Witch would be and if events play out similarly enough to Rebellion... then Anakin with her level of causality could theoretically upend Madoka's reign just as much as Homura did.

Put succinctly, it very much matters what kind of wish is made while possessing such ludicrous potential in order to nab said control. However, if the stars align, the girl wished right, had the karmic potential to affect lives across the universe... then yes, laws of reality suddenly become a mere suggestion and a tinker toy to the new Goddess who decides to play with it. After all, Kyubey said Magic defies logic by its nature due to being based on emotion... and if one's actions could ripple across and affect lives across the cosmos... then the result of such a powerful wish could indeed usurp control of the universe.

I must be exhausted beyond reason if I'm using Star Wars metaphors to explain Madoka Karma...

Actually brings up a good question... Anakin was meant for all intents and purposes to be a living God on Earth at his full power, as Mortis Arc implies. Would a theoretical Magical Girl Anakin with the causality of being the Chosen One of the Force equal Madoka, whose Causality is measured via time and space due to repeated time looping?

A shooting star, huh?


Considering who one of our moms are... would be fitting.

Hell, the way they stylize the shooting star looks like the impacter symbol of SV. Perhaps an Impacter encased in a diamond, merging Homura with Madoka's?
 
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Well put Cae, and may I say that is a fascinating crossover idea to boot~

Then consider this plot bunny up for adoption! However, as a resident Prequel-Trilogy Fan, I wouldn't mind giving ideas and input.

Edit: I wonder what Sabrina would make out of half of this... *Wills her to hum any of the Star Wars themes... preferably The Force Theme or Across the Stars!*
 
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*looks at Magical Seal discussion*

Well, isn't this interesting. The whole "celestial object brought down to earth" idea certainly makes sense. Although, isn't a celestial impactor kinda... detrimental to continued life on the earthly plane?
 
*looks at Magical Seal discussion*

Well, isn't this interesting. The whole "celestial object brought down to earth" idea certainly makes sense. Although, isn't a celestial impactor kinda... detrimental to continued life on the earthly plane?

A hammer to the face is generally detrimental to the peaceful solutions we generally strive for but we still have the hammer.
 
I forget, what were the sea creatures everyone mapped to? I know Madoka's a seal, Mami's a jellyfish, and we decided Brina is a Portuguese Man O War...

If I could actually draw, I'd draw sea-creature!Mami and Sabrina together. Everyone's favorite hydrozoan couple!
 
I forget, what were the sea creatures everyone mapped to? I know Madoka's a seal, Mami's a jellyfish, and we decided Brina is a Portuguese Man O War...

If I could actually draw, I'd draw sea-creature!Mami and Sabrina together. Everyone's favorite hydrozoan couple!

Homura is an otter. It's a pun in Japanese I believe. The same kanji that makes up the -ra in her name is the first kanji in rakko, otter. At least, that's what I recall. I don't actually speak Japanese.
 
God, I'll unironically go nuts if we get the charisma and infamy to be so cheesy and yet so respected as All Might.
Funnily enough, All Might's philosophy is closer to Madoka's, with some of Homura's self-isolating tendancies. Sabrina is more of an Izuku.

Toshinori's main flaw in that he will stop at nothing to keep others from getting hurt. However, that means that Toshinori is basically incapable of accepting help if he thinks it means people he cares about would risk getting hurt- after his fight with All for One, he was pretty much killing himself trying to keep up his old pace, and had isolated himself and driven away his support network because he didn't want anyone else getting hurt in his place or by his side- for all of All Might's smiles and reassurances, he actually had a massive martyr complex that wasn't at all helped by Nana's death before she could temper those aspects of his personality into something less self-destructive.

And because of this, by turning himself into the pillar of society out of a need to make sure nobody else has to endure the pain, he inadvertantly created a system that was only stable as long he was there. It doesn't matter how strong a pillar is when it's still the only thing holding up the roof. If anything happens to that one pillar, the whole thing starts to collapse.

Izuku, while he has a lot of the same self-sacrificing elements Toshinori does-- in some ways worse, because he's not a natural carrier of One for All like All Might was-- he also has been able to actually internalize the benefit and value of friendship and teamwork, and sharing the load, that he doesn't have to be Atlus--in the same way Sabrina, while absolutely the most important piece, isn't trying go go it alone.
 
So, guys... something just occurred to me. Weren't we going to ask Homura about the start of this loop? Or have we decided to not do that anymore?
 
So, guys... something just occurred to me. Weren't we going to ask Homura about the start of this loop? Or have we decided to not do that anymore?

I kinda filed that under the general umbrella of "work out exactly the clues Firn has left us regarding Homura that none of us apparently worked out yet". The knowledge of how this loop began, along with potentially anything that might fill in more blanks regarding the past loop should help uncover that answer. Didn't help that the last time-stop was meant to be a smaller one with fewer topics to cover.
 
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