Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Vebyast · Jun 28, 2018

Onmur said:
People have calculated that we can be anywhere in the world in two hours.

Yep. The detectors that we have to worry about are infrared and radar, since those are what drive missile-warning systems and air traffic control. So grief up a radar-absorbent layer (possibly with Kyubey's help) so we don't show up on radar, grief can be entirely frictionless, then we're entirely limited by compression heating from speed. Get high enough and even that doesn't matter, so we just need to get out of the atmosphere without looking like a ballistic missile in boost phase and then we go as fast as we want. Bonus points for keeping it subsonic. Thankfully, the atmosphere is really thin, so it's only 10-15 minutes for ascent and descent each. Then we figure out how long it takes to go halfway around the earth, from standing start to standing stop, assuming we maintain tolerable constant acceleration and then constant deceleration, say, 2g. That turns out to be about 30 minutes [1]. So 15 minutes up, 30 minutes over, 15 minutes down, or about an hour for movement, add in 15 minutes to put together the vessel, total is under an hour and a half.

s = (v_0 + v_max)/2 * t
v_max = a * (t/2)
s = 1/2 * s_Orbit
s_Orbit = 2 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles)
v_0 = 0
v_max = s * 2 / t
t = 2 * v_max / a
t = 2 * s * 2 / (t * a)
t^2 = 4 * s / a
t = sqrt(4 * s / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / (2 * (acceleration due to gravity)))

AlphaDelta · Jun 28, 2018

Guilop said:
We could always send them a package with a clear seed

FallenPears said:
Hmm how soon can we set up a clear seed mailing service now? Internationally that is.

Now that we've made contact I can't help but feel we should really consider it.

Say, we send a clear seed, they agree to send 3 normal seeds back over time, so exponential growth of clear seed numbers. I can't imagine it's super difficult, and even if we can't do it via normal channels for some reason could we recruit girls from the chat groups?

They get first clear seeds, then act as mailmen.

Hell, if we explain I can see girls fighting to volunteer, and at least a few should be in a position to start.

It just doesn't seem so hard immediately, once we get going it will accelerate quickly, and it will do so much good.

Just feels like now we're out there, after the chat. Light a fire under us to get moving.

BlackoutSampler said:
We could send it via Snail Mail and once they verify they have it and it works they send a Grief Seed back through the return address

PlanckConstant said:
If we are going to send seeds oversees, we should consider how to store it given customs may open the package, so we need to encase the seed in something solid so it looks like a fancy decorative cube, but a meguca can smash open for the seed.

abyssmal_kismet said:
Okay, so.

Step 1: Trade a clear seed to all willing IRC members in exchange for three grief seeds each and, hopefully, contact with an international range teleporter, even more hopefully willing to let Sayaka copy her powers.

Step 2: SCIENCE internationally teleporting Sayaka, both clone and original.

Step 3: IF INTERNATIONAL SAYACLONE WORKS AND SHE IS WILLING, identify particularly seed deficient areas and send a Sayaclone with backup to investigate and distribute Clear Seeds to each. Ask IRC for problem areas they know about, and request they spread word as far as they can about your Clear Seed trades.

Step 4: Have Sayaklones set up Clear Seed trading posts in bastions created against seed shortages.

Step 5: ??? (in other words, time and effort)

Step 6: Profit.

There are few roadblocks to a worldwide MG Utopia. Unfortunately, those roadblocks are time, trust, and human stupidity. Solving the first will solve the second to a degree, but the last is an unfortunately major roadblock that will probably lead to much tragedy and death.

HeroCycle said:
Brick and mortar infrastructure. Storage, employees, mundane shipping, and security. Yuki might help somehow. We also know a few girls who

Onmur said:
Just mailing Clear Seeds does sound like it could cause trouble...

I'd rather not send a WMD over the mail. Especially international mail.

There's so much that can go wrong with this.

Actually, scratch that. I'd rather not send out a WMD to anyone we haven't physically met with Mami, and possibly Sayaka.

We need Trust first: trust in our ability to ensure no evil. We need to start building a trust web.

... Yes, I'm currently trying to set up GPG. Why do you ask?

In the OpenPGP model, there are three levels of trust: None, Marginal, and Trusted. We need to decide who is trusted enough to not misuse and actively prevent misuse of a Clear Seed. The idea of a trust web – We trust Mami, Sayaka, Kyouko, and Nadia, Nadia trusts a lot of people – can be used as a basis for our Network of Mass Destruction.

This is no decentralized system. There is only one know producer of Clear Seeds: us.

We ultimately have final say. This may be cold, but I think there may be merit in keeping it this way, at least until we have a true Union of Mahou Shoujo. To decide who gets a clear seed, I would like to propose the following criteria:

1. The trust of at least three people we Trust.
2. Our trust.

Here, "trust" means that we trust them to not drop a WMD in the middle of a swamp, and to not lose them to those who would do Evil. And if lost, they will be responsible enough to summon Trusted help to retrieve it before irreparable damage can be done.

When dealing with this crystalized potential to do work, good or evil, we must take special responsibility to ensure its power is used for good, or at least not for evil. We must remain vigilant perpetually. We can afford zero mistakes.

This, I believe, is the hardest problem we face.

E: I just realized that I didn't really give anything specific to solve the short-term transport problem. I'm in favor of Sayaclone Convoy, Mobile Fortress ~~Knox~~, or griefhax teleportation if possible. The key is enough protection to deter Veteran teams.

PlanckConstant · Jun 28, 2018

FallenPears said:
Heh, funnily enough this could end up similar to the MSY in To The Stars, except whilst they used a delivery service as a front, for us we'll need fronts for the delivery service.

We already have the seed sharing and defense parts of that being worked on, add on monetary cooperation and proper enforcement of rules and we are the MSY.

Though we do need to start considering proper organisation now since we are doing outreach, at some point we should sit down and start actively considering this. Ultimately, while megucas are secret we will need to govern our self's so we need a way to do that. How are rules decided? What punishments are there? Who will enforce them? We have a few prisoners right now, but how would a large scale meguca prison work? How are seeds shared among the population?

HeroCycle · Jun 28, 2018

Vebyast said:
Yep. The detectors that we have to worry about are infrared and radar, since those are what drive missile-warning systems and air traffic control. So grief up a radar-absorbent layer (possibly with Kyubey's help) so we don't show up on radar, grief can be entirely frictionless, then we're entirely limited by compression heating from speed. Get high enough and even that doesn't matter, so we just need to get out of the atmosphere without looking like a ballistic missile in boost phase and then we go as fast as we want. Probably 10-15 minutes for ascent and descent each. Then we figure out how long it takes to go halfway around the earth, from standing start to standing stop, assuming we maintain tolerable constant acceleration and then constant deceleration, say, 2g, which turns out to be 30 minutes [1]. So 15 minutes up, 30 minutes over, 15 minutes down, or about an hour for movement, add in 15 minutes to put together the vessel, total is under an hour and a half.

s = (v_0 + v_max)/2 * t
v_max = a * (t/2)
s = 1/2 * s_Orbit
s_Orbit = 2 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles)
v_0 = 0
v_max = s * 2 / t
t = 2 * v_max / a
t = 2 * s * 2 / (t * a)
t^2 = 4 * s / a
t = sqrt(4 * s / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / (2 * (acceleration due to gravity)))

Sayaka can get us high in the troposphere in one move, perhaps? Very fast ascent via teleport, then we gain orbital altitude for the transit phase. As long as her lightning powers could reach, that means our boost phase is "weather" not "weapons." Further, if we could "launch" much much faster than a missile, the sensors might see our infrared plume, but filter it out as being too short?

Vebyast · Jun 28, 2018

Also amusing: When Brina says she's going "all in", she really does. Look at the timestamps here:

Firnagzen said:
[14:51:11] <GriefBeGone> she gave me your IP
[14:51:14] <GriefBeGone> you can ask Nadia to confirm this: my powers let me cleanse Soul Gems
[14:51:15] <GriefBeGone> genuinely cleanse them, as opposed to moving the grief elsewhere

Total of three seconds to type one full sentence, then under a second for the next. So she's definitely a normal human typing with her human hands, and I'm sure that nobody on the other side of the conversation will suspect otherwise, because they're definitely not analyzing what we're saying just as deeply as we're analyzing what they're saying.

(yes, I know that this is probably just Firn throwing out timestamps, I'm still amused by all the subtle little things that Sabrina can do when she wants to throw someone for a loop.)

angelofwhim · Jun 28, 2018

So

I cant wait for us to spread clear seeds across the globe and then find out dewitching involves replacing clear seeds. Save megucas or leave them as clear seeds forever?

.....lets leave a clause in our promises that we want the clear seeds back at some point for "updates".

NavySeel · Jun 28, 2018

...We've found our people.

HeroCycle · Jun 28, 2018

AlphaDelta said:
I'd rather not send a WMD over the mail. Especially international mail.

There's so much that can go wrong with this.

Actually, scratch that. I'd rather not send out a WMD to anyone we haven't physically met with Mami, and possibly Sayaka.

Unfortunately, Risk is far more "real" than Trust. We do need to use trust, and we trust our friends. But it doesn't mean that bad things won't happen inside the system.

But I wish to re-direct your thinking just a bit -
Magical Girls need infinite cleansing to be a full-on WMD threat.
Witches need .... only opportunity.
Clear Seeds supply risk, but they mitigate another risk at the same time.

When we undertake expansion, we will have a small number of occasions to undertake high-risk behavior. That's why we should hold off on expansion for the present.

NavySeel said:
...We've found our people.

OTOH, one of these girls in America just purchased a ticket to Japan, didn't she?

Vebyast · Jun 28, 2018

Vebyast said:
Yep. The detectors that we have to worry about are infrared and radar, since those are what drive missile-warning systems and air traffic control. So grief up a radar-absorbent layer (possibly with Kyubey's help) so we don't show up on radar, grief can be entirely frictionless, then we're entirely limited by compression heating from speed. Get high enough and even that doesn't matter, so we just need to get out of the atmosphere without looking like a ballistic missile in boost phase and then we go as fast as we want. Bonus points for keeping it subsonic. Thankfully, the atmosphere is really thin, so it's only 10-15 minutes for ascent and descent each. Then we figure out how long it takes to go halfway around the earth, from standing start to standing stop, assuming we maintain tolerable constant acceleration and then constant deceleration, say, 2g. That turns out to be about 30 minutes [1]. So 15 minutes up, 30 minutes over, 15 minutes down, or about an hour for movement, add in 15 minutes to put together the vessel, total is under an hour and a half.

s = (v_0 + v_max)/2 * t
v_max = a * (t/2)
s = 1/2 * s_Orbit
s_Orbit = 2 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles)
v_0 = 0
v_max = s * 2 / t
t = 2 * v_max / a
t = 2 * s * 2 / (t * a)
t^2 = 4 * s / a
t = sqrt(4 * s / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / a)
t = sqrt(4 * pi * ((radius of earth) + 200 miles) / (2 * (acceleration due to gravity)))

It's been pointed out that you actually only need to keep it subsonic on the way down, since the sonic boom goes up if you're going up. Also that you don't need to do the full 100km subsonic, since pressure drops off above about 30 km fast enough that we're probably limited by compression heating more than not wanting to blow out everyone's windows. So more like 3 minutes to altitude, then

Actually, scratch all of that, someone on discord (who's not on SV) just realized that we could hop a bit ana or kata and then go as fast as we want in a straight line from point A to point B. So, nevermind the space stuff, it's literally just "distance from point A to point B going through the earth at whatever acceleration you want to maintain", which is going to be like 10 minutes. Nice.

HeroCycle · Jun 28, 2018

Vebyast said:
It's been pointed out that you actually only need to keep it subsonic on the way down, since the sonic boom goes up if you're going up. Also that you don't need to do the full 100km subsonic, since pressure drops off above about 30 km fast enough that we're probably limited by compression heating more than not wanting to blow out everyone's windows. So more like 3 minutes to altitude, then

Actually, scratch all of that, someone on discord (who's not on SV) just realized that we could hop a bit ana or kata and then go as fast as we want in a straight line from point A to point B. So, nevermind the space stuff, it's literally just "distance from point A to point B going through the earth at whatever acceleration you want to maintain", which is going to be like 10 minutes. Nice.

How well does Firn remember Buckaroo Banzai, I wonder?

FeepingCreature · Jun 28, 2018

Vebyast said:
I think it's time to figure out how long it'd take us to actually swing by places like this, even if it's just to drop off a Clear Seed and run to the next group.

Is, does that mean that it is finally... suborbital spaceplane time??

Because if so: YESSSSS!!! :sparkles energetically:

Edit: ninjaed in the best way.

Jonen C · Jun 28, 2018

Vebyast said:
It's been pointed out that you actually only need to keep it subsonic on the way down, since the sonic boom goes up if you're going up. Also that you don't need to do the full 100km subsonic, since pressure drops off above about 30 km fast enough that we're probably limited by compression heating more than not wanting to blow out everyone's windows. So more like 3 minutes to altitude, then

Actually, scratch all of that, someone on discord (who's not on SV) just realized that we could hop a bit ana or kata and then go as fast as we want in a straight line from point A to point B. So, nevermind the space stuff, it's literally just "distance from point A to point B going through the earth at whatever acceleration you want to maintain", which is going to be like 10 minutes. Nice.

4D nav is going to be tricky, mind. Would rather shoot for low orbit than risk telefragging.

DB_Explorer · Jun 28, 2018

HeroCycle said:
OTOH, one of these girls in America just purchased a ticket to Japan, didn't she?

So in the coming weeks when we see an american girl lost, trying to ask for directions we will know who it is.

Ameriguca: Thanks for the help, I'm Stephanie by the way
Sabrina: No prob, Sabrina
Steph: OMGYOURWHOIMLOOKINGFOROMG
Sabrina: ....... ......

Skelm · Jun 28, 2018

Acceleration is only a binding constraint if you're applying forces to your body unevenly. If we use grief to apply equal force everywhere (either using grief fog, or just by fiat) there's no limit.

Jonen C said:
4D nav is going to be tricky, mind. Would rather shoot for low orbit than risk telefragging.

Just use grief fog to sense what's there before popping out.

Navigation is going to be a problem though, since we won't be able to use GPS easily. Actually finding the place we're trying to go is likely to be the biggest time consumer.

Lydia · Jun 28, 2018

Skelm said:
Acceleration is only a binding constraint if you're applying forces to your body unevenly. If we use grief to apply equal force everywhere (either using grief fog, or just by fiat) there's no limit.

Only as long as we are travelling with Newtonian velocities, if we get into time and space warping events caused by acceleration you will still notice it.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2018

DB_Explorer said:
So in the coming weeks when we see an american girl lost, trying to ask for directions we will know who it is.

Ameriguca: Thanks for the help, I'm Stephanie by the way
Sabrina: No prob, Sabrina
Steph: OMGYOURWHOIMLOOKINGFOROMG
Sabrina: *HUGS*

Fixed.

Skelm said:
Just use grief fog to sense what's there before popping out.

Navigation is going to be a problem though, since we won't be able to use GPS easily. Actually finding the place we're trying to go is likely to be the biggest time consumer.

Random meguca in random place in the world:

*FEELS WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH ZOOM BY AT STUPID SPEEDS*

"HOLY SHIT!"

Crowd: *Panics at sudden armed teenager girl*

...

By this I mean we probably could grief hax a lot of solutions.

Just remember to knead the Grief first!

Filraen · Jun 28, 2018

Firnagzen said:
"Honestly... look, don'tstabme, but I consider us friends," you say. "I'm not gonna hold this over your head. And I... I really didn't do anything. I just put you in touch with Miss Nakano."

"Bullshit," Kyouko says. "Fine, fuck, we're friends, what the hell. Meddlesome Westerners. So what? I owe you anyway."

"I... I can't stop you, if that's how you feel," you say, squishing the Grief in your hands together with a bit more force than necessary. "But I really don't and won't hold it against you."

"Fuck," Kyouko bites out. "Fine. You're gonna talk to Nakano, right? If you're paying her back, then let me help with that."

I like the understanding we got with Kyouko here.

Funny thing is, we still haven't intriduced Kyouko to the infoguca to make her Yuma's legal guardian... Idea! what If we ask Sayaka to introduce Kyouko to the infoguca? That way she doesn't see "helping Kyouko" as a payment so it's respectful to Kyouko's independence.

Firnagzen said:
Perhaps. Regardless, it's time to check out those IRCs Nadia mentioned.

You hand over a thousand yen note for some time at the computers, and seat yourself at one of the more out-of-the-way ones. Your hands hover over the keyboard for a moment before typing in one of the URLs Nadia mentioned. Apparently one of the ones based mostly in America, but with a couple other international members.

Codewords, punt the kb, protect the ring and so much ripples.

I like Nadia as a character and how I love how she keeps being relevant.

On Clear seeds to American meguca: what if we just go thare for a day? Grab the party*, make a Mobile Operation Fortress (invisible/indetectable) and go supersonic high enough (almost in space) and through the north pole. We could ask them to meet at a single place to make Clear Seeds for a while.

* Mami and a Sayaka clone (if the clone can make copies of powers too)

For people who can make the numbers how long would it take to make the trip? Meguca are far more resillient than normal humans so I expect we don't have to take nearly as long.

EDIT: looks like they already had the ideas and calculations, the question now is if/when we should do it.

Muramasa · Jun 28, 2018

When are we meeting with Kyouko?

Raiseth · Jun 28, 2018

... No one cancelled anti-air defense grids, as far as I remember.
We need to visit at least Invisiguca before making such a trip.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2018

Muramasa said:
When are we meeting with Kyouko?

Just about now if we go with Sayaka; don't know if we don't.

I guess we've got incentives to go with her now. :/

Should talk with Mika first?

NavySeel · Jun 28, 2018

How are we going to explain the word Meguca when actual American Megucas show up?

Onmur · Jun 28, 2018

[Q] Telepathy Nadia. Listen to her cackle maniacally.

NavySeel said:
How are we going to explain the word Meguca when actual American Megucas show up?

Have you seen this crowd?

"Meguca."

"Meguca?"

"Meguca meguca."

"Ah... meguca."

"Meguca."

Filraen · Jun 28, 2018

BlackoutSampler said:
And I'm pretty sure at one point in time we had Madoka hold onto a Clear Seed, either to make a point or silly science shenanigans.

Homura would dissaprove. Ask Hitomi instead.

HeroCycle said:
OTOH, one of these girls in America just purchased a ticket to Japan, didn't she?

Probably we'd get a thelepatic call first, I expect one in.... maybe 5 minutes?

(I'm serious though. EDIT: I mean, the people in the chat know Nadia knows us so I expect they'll ask Nadia to connect to us for a telepathic call)

Muramasa said:
When are we meeting with Kyouko?

Later today, ~~for Sayaka's training~~ cleansing Kyouko's and Yuma's soul gems.

Onmur · Jun 28, 2018

So we should go with Sayaka, so we can talk with Kyouko.

Before that, telepathy and talk with Mika.

Before that, make sure someone will keep Mami company... Uh, actually, is this a problem? We could ask Madoka to do it, and that would keep Homura around, but otherwise, everyone's going back to school for club activities. That would leave... O&K? :thonk:

And I doubt Kyouko would not mind if we brough Mami along to Kasamino... even if just for a short chat. Sounds like a bad idea.

Anyway, after sorting out that and finishing preparations for dinner with Akemi and Noriko, we so totally need to do some testing and preparations.

One: We need to figure out 4D movement. If we could be anywhere in the world within 10 minutes or so? We need to be able to do it. It'll let us put out fires, reach out to meguca, and be ready to put out fires, which will serve as deterrent to any guca who might start up some shit.

Two: Speckled Enchantmens. We're gonna be meeting with an exponentially increasing amount of powerful gucas, and neither us nor Mami are invincible-

Sayaklone: *Smugs*

-so we need to make and carry around as many protective enchantments as we can make. Also, utility enchantments, whatever we can make, really. This would also be a test about just how non witchy the speckled enchants are, and how long we can keep them on.

GiftOfLove · Jun 28, 2018

The Phoenixian said:
Hunh, so apparently Mitakihara is A Thing as on a planet-wide level of recognition.

Mami is gorgeous and will fuck your shit up.

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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"I don't know what I'm doing."

Nascent Transhuman

F.M.D.G.

Purveyor of alternate realities.

Archangel of Nutella.

Best Girl

I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing

Archangel of Nutella.

"I don't know what I'm doing."

Archangel of Nutella.

Archangel of Nutella.

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