Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Yes. Same issue with anything we recommend - any concrete options we suggest will be tainted by "Someone is telling me what to do". To a significantly smaller extent than with her family and the other things that Niko did, but it's still there.
Is there a way that we could explain that analysis to her without putting her on the defensive or being patronizing? I feel like trying to explicitly figure out what her goals are could help significantly, but it'd be tricky to get there.
Fine, take the goddamn vote. I suck at this anyway.
[x] Redshirt Army
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The problem is that isn't a problem we can avoid.
That's just what teens do.
What I think is very, very likely right now, is that Hijiri really wants a straight answer.
Sabrina: "I think you should do X/In your place, I would do Y/Maybe doing Z would help."
And as teens are wont to do, since they're human beings in times of identity crisis that swing back and forth between wanting to be independent (noboy can tell me what to do) and wanting to be dependent (just tell me what to do already), Hijiri will probably resent and discard whatever we propose, no matter what it is.
And that's fine. It's not poisoning the well; the idea will stick in her head and she might consider it next time she feels like listening again. That's normal.
I'm not saying this will happen 100% of the time, but it's common.
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
Well, AFAIC. Also eyes.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
[X] The Phoenixian
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Oh boy... Welp.
Here's my updated vote:
[x] Mami:
-[x] Hijiiri might be diverting attention. You'll act distracted, but won't widen searching yet.
[x] Pleiades:
-[x] Weak hypothesis: Airi nearby?
[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Continue therapy. Avoid coming across as "knowing better". Provide actionable ways she can move forward. Act like you're not scanning. Potentially:
--[x] You might be wrong, but... she's conflicted, since she's concerned that going back is "playing along" with Niko, and she wants her life to be her own?
--[x] You think it's possible to stay with her family, while choosing her own future. There's many interests that Niko wouldn't ever think to pick, yet Hijiri might enjoy.
--[x] There's meguca IRCs she can vent on...
--[x] You'll be addressing Niko's own multilayered issues, so even if she'll be under some scrutiny until she re-earns trust, it shouldn't be too onerous.
[x] Simultaneously, search:
-[x] Don't let Airi or Hijiri escape or ambush you.
] Be lonely.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
This looks good.
Disagree. Two reasons:
- Mumi wants soul-snuggles, mumi gets soul-snuggles.
- Not searching efficiently counts as "being distracted".
I'd prefer a directive to Brinapilot to make herself a harder target somehow, even if the specifics are left by the wayside.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
[x] Redshirt Army
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[x] Mami:
-[x] Agree, but be cautious. Hijiiri might be diverting attention.
[x] Pleiades:
-[x] Weak hypothesis: Airi nearby?
[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Continue therapy. Avoid condescension. Provide actionable suggestions. Appear to give full attention.
--[x] She's conflicted, since she's concerned that going back is "playing along" with Niko, and she wants her life to be her own. Right?
--[x] It's possible to stay with her family, while still choosing her own future. You'll provide cleansing. Just tell her parents she wants to try something new, different. There's lots of options.
--[x] You'll address Niko's issues with creepy vicarious stalking. Hijiri might be under scrutiny until she re-earns trust, but it won't be the same.
--[x] Short Term... you can rig sweepstakes, give her family a vacation away from Niko for a bit. And there're meguca IRCs she can vent on...
[x] Simultaneously, search for Airi:
-[x] Mitigate ambushes against you.
150 words.
-[x] Agree, but be cautious. Hijiiri might be diverting attention.
[x] Pleiades:
-[x] Weak hypothesis: Airi nearby?
[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Continue therapy. Avoid condescension. Provide actionable suggestions. Appear to give full attention.
--[x] She's conflicted, since she's concerned that going back is "playing along" with Niko, and she wants her life to be her own. Right?
--[x] It's possible to stay with her family, while still choosing her own future. You'll provide cleansing. Just tell her parents she wants to try something new, different. There's lots of options.
--[x] You'll address Niko's issues with creepy vicarious stalking. Hijiri might be under scrutiny until she re-earns trust, but it won't be the same.
--[x] Short Term... you can rig sweepstakes, give her family a vacation away from Niko for a bit. And there're meguca IRCs she can vent on...
[x] Simultaneously, search for Airi:
-[x] Mitigate ambushes against you.
150 words.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[X] Searching:
-[X] Agree with Mami's suggestion but ask her to be careful; You suspect Anri might try something.
-[X] Other Goals:
--[X] Be ready for either ambush or escape.
---[X] Remember Anri likes attacks from above.
--[X] Make yourself a harder target without giving away your intentions.
--[X] Lay a trap.
[x] Hijiri:
-[X] Goals:
--[x] Pretend she distracted you
--[X] Continue therapy
--[X] Provide actionable suggestions.
--[X] Avoid coming across as "knowing better"
-[X]Potential specifics:
--[X] Suggest just trying new things until knows what she can call her own. Define herself for herself.
--[X] Ask if Hijiri would rather get out from under Niko's shadow for a while, a vacation for instance, or stay, which would mean more scrutiny, being around Niko, and likely you providing aid.
--[X] Ask if she'd want to find other wishborn girls or check out meguca IRCs
[X] Keep the Saints filled in, avoid spreading paranoia.
My own guess for the sake of direction that that as, Meguca IRCs are largely outgrowths of split up friends, their cultures probably reflect that more than the IRCs of larger internet communities do. A sudden random stranger showing up specifically to venting may not be kosher.
EDIT: Since commentary was requested on Redshirt's vote, I think I have concerns with how it plays staying in Asunaro vs going on a sabbatical/vacation. It strikes me that that dichotomy, and how each side would go, should probably be presented as a choice towards front of things, whereas in that vote it feels more like staying is assumed by default and leaving for a time is presented as an afterthought.
-[X] Agree with Mami's suggestion but ask her to be careful; You suspect Anri might try something.
-[X] Other Goals:
--[X] Be ready for either ambush or escape.
---[X] Remember Anri likes attacks from above.
--[X] Make yourself a harder target without giving away your intentions.
--[X] Lay a trap.
[x] Hijiri:
-[X] Goals:
--[x] Pretend she distracted you
--[X] Continue therapy
--[X] Provide actionable suggestions.
--[X] Avoid coming across as "knowing better"
-[X]Potential specifics:
--[X] Suggest just trying new things until knows what she can call her own. Define herself for herself.
--[X] Ask if Hijiri would rather get out from under Niko's shadow for a while, a vacation for instance, or stay, which would mean more scrutiny, being around Niko, and likely you providing aid.
--[X] Ask if she'd want to find other wishborn girls or check out meguca IRCs
[X] Keep the Saints filled in, avoid spreading paranoia.
My own guess for the sake of direction that that as, Meguca IRCs are largely outgrowths of split up friends, their cultures probably reflect that more than the IRCs of larger internet communities do. A sudden random stranger showing up specifically to venting may not be kosher.
EDIT: Since commentary was requested on Redshirt's vote, I think I have concerns with how it plays staying in Asunaro vs going on a sabbatical/vacation. It strikes me that that dichotomy, and how each side would go, should probably be presented as a choice towards front of things, whereas in that vote it feels more like staying is assumed by default and leaving for a time is presented as an afterthought.
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Hmm. I'm not sure we'd be able to get this past the Pleiades. This'd be a necessarily short-term bonus, on even a slightly longer term we'll be addressing Niko's issues and the vacation would be superfluous, and in that timeframe there's simply no way the Pleiades will let Hijiri head to Hawaii.
Maybe move that word-count over to expand on this part? It's a bit sparse. Also, why would her parents have to get involved? Meguca IRC and clubs at school should be actionable without parental input. I suppose if we're intending to suggest bigger changes, like a new school?
Keep this bit, though.
I like this phrasing.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[x] Mami:
-[x] Agree, but be cautious. Hijiiri might be diverting attention.
[x] Pleiades:
-[x] Weak hypothesis: Airi nearby?
[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Continue therapy. Avoid condescension. Provide actionable suggestions. Appear to give full attention.
--[x] She's conflicted, since she's concerned that going back is "playing along" with Niko, and she wants her life to be her own. Right?
--[x] It's possible to stay close to her family, while still choosing her own future. You'll provide cleansing. Immediately, she can try new interests or clubs. There's meguca IRCs... Longer term, talk to her parents about changes. She doesn't need to stay in the same city forever, either. Lots of people study abroad... Vacations, even. There are options.
--[x] You'll address Niko's issues with creepy vicarious stalking. Hijiri might be under scrutiny until she re-earns trust, but it won't be the same.
[x] Simultaneously, search for Airi:
-[x] Mitigate ambushes against you.
-[x] Agree, but be cautious. Hijiiri might be diverting attention.
[x] Pleiades:
-[x] Weak hypothesis: Airi nearby?
[x] Hijiri:
-[x] Continue therapy. Avoid condescension. Provide actionable suggestions. Appear to give full attention.
--[x] She's conflicted, since she's concerned that going back is "playing along" with Niko, and she wants her life to be her own. Right?
--[x] It's possible to stay close to her family, while still choosing her own future. You'll provide cleansing. Immediately, she can try new interests or clubs. There's meguca IRCs... Longer term, talk to her parents about changes. She doesn't need to stay in the same city forever, either. Lots of people study abroad... Vacations, even. There are options.
--[x] You'll address Niko's issues with creepy vicarious stalking. Hijiri might be under scrutiny until she re-earns trust, but it won't be the same.
[x] Simultaneously, search for Airi:
-[x] Mitigate ambushes against you.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I don't think we can actually offer the Kanna family a vacation in the short term. They have jobs, school, etc..
Offering Hijiri a vacation would be easier, though it'd still need to fly with her parents, and she'd have to do something about school.
[Q] Niko will take Hijiri's place for a while. This won't have any bad repercussions whatsoever.
Offering Hijiri a vacation would be easier, though it'd still need to fly with her parents, and she'd have to do something about school.
[Q] Niko will take Hijiri's place for a while. This won't have any bad repercussions whatsoever.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[X] Searching:
-[X] Agree with Mami's suggestion but ask her to be careful; You suspect Anri might try something.
-[X] Other Goals:
--[X] Be ready for either ambush or escape.
---[X] Remember Anri likes attacks from above.
--[X] Mitigate ambushes against you without giving away your intentions.
--[X] Lay a trap.
[X] Hijiri:
-[X] Goals:
--[X] Appear to give full attention, Continue therapy, Provide actionable suggestions, and avoid coming across as "knowing better"
-[X]Potential specifics:
--[X] Suggest just trying new things until knows what she can call her own. Define herself for herself.
--[X] Ask if Hijiri would rather get out from under Niko's shadow for a while or stay.
--[X] Talk about ways Hijiri could explore herself and be comfortable spending time abroad, with or without her family, or explore herself in Asunaro, as she seems receptive.
--[X] Ask if she'd want to get in contact with other meguca or wishborn.
[X] Keep the Saints filled in, avoid spreading paranoia.
And... I have to ask, can we honestly say we'll have the time and social aptitude to do that?
-[X] Agree with Mami's suggestion but ask her to be careful; You suspect Anri might try something.
-[X] Other Goals:
--[X] Be ready for either ambush or escape.
---[X] Remember Anri likes attacks from above.
--[X] Mitigate ambushes against you without giving away your intentions.
--[X] Lay a trap.
[X] Hijiri:
-[X] Goals:
--[X] Appear to give full attention, Continue therapy, Provide actionable suggestions, and avoid coming across as "knowing better"
-[X]Potential specifics:
--[X] Suggest just trying new things until knows what she can call her own. Define herself for herself.
--[X] Ask if Hijiri would rather get out from under Niko's shadow for a while or stay.
--[X] Talk about ways Hijiri could explore herself and be comfortable spending time abroad, with or without her family, or explore herself in Asunaro, as she seems receptive.
--[X] Ask if she'd want to get in contact with other meguca or wishborn.
[X] Keep the Saints filled in, avoid spreading paranoia.
Remember that we first saw (what was probably) Hijiri stalking Niko. Given that she's done the same thing a line like this to her could easily come off as quite backhanded.
And... I have to ask, can we honestly say we'll have the time and social aptitude to do that?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I was planning to give it an honest attempt, and between ourselves, Mami, and Kazuza, I think we have decent odds.
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Yes, because the alternative is that Hijiri tries again but with better info and prep. And because the Pleiades are, in fact, our friends and allies. And because we need Niko intact, psychologically speaking, for her to finish the memory device.
We haven't established that that was her, and Niko's offense is far more severe. Niko made a non-meguca clone and then spied on her using magic. Hijiri may have been stalking Niko - we still haven't confirmed that, recall - and would've been doing it in the pursuit of an immediate tactical advantage, where Niko's spying was creepy stalker behavior.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
We don't have to have established that that was Hijiri. There's only two people that could be and our knowledge is not the important matter here. (Though I'll point out it's reasonable to surmise given that two sides of a fork would have similar mindsets and thus proclivities. and even if not we're taking about a 50/50 coinflip.)
If that possibility is true it runs into the fact that Hijiri does not like us. She does not think well of us. She will not take our words as we intend or know, but in an unflattering light.
If Hijiri did it enough to acknowledged it to herself even a little, this is primed to be phrased as a backhanded slap in the face to her.
I'll also point out that that person followed Niko on short notice. She would likely not have had warning that the saints were calling Niko. and would almost certainly have already been following her. Unless Hijiri knew the half the Saints would be out of town, and was doing something because of that specifically it's quite possible to assume she was making a habit of it.
Remember, this is the girl who wished, canonically "I want the power to connect to others without drawing attention. I'll watch her and burn her death into my eyes."
And when asked about what she's been doing she says "no way [I didn't control you]. It's fun to watch you destroy yourselves. I just prepared events to make things fun."
There is every reason to believe Hijiri has stalker tendencies herself.
- Location
- Your Native Universe
Well I mean, I think it was less of her having stalker tendencies and more of making sure her revenge plot actually works. A revenge plot doesn't work well if the person doesn't keep tabs on the victims to make sure that the plan is actually going according to plan. The fact that she's able to do it without drawing attention makes the plan have a higher chance of success in the long run.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
You still have to tie that into her the how she chose to take revenge. She's not a logic bot, shes a human teenager and she's making her wish for deeply emotional reasons. She was just focused on Niko at that time that the saints broadly. If she'd wanted she could have wished for revenge in the form of attacking Niko, or confronting her directly, be it through beating her up with strength, acting stealthily, ruining her reputation with her friends, or whatnot.
Instead she chose a manner in which she set things up, and sat, and quietly took her satisfaction as she watched it play out. That speaks to her nature.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Well, wish isn't the important point here: It's what it says about her character and how all of that it ties into what we've seen of her in PMAS.
(And how that ties into how she'd take a vicious jab at someone else for being a stalker.)
