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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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[] Maybe later.

[] Shift seating arrangements as to include Hijiri.
-[] Try and talk to her.
-[] Potential things to bring up (go for less sensitive issues first):
--[] How is she holding up; is anything troubling her?
--[] Worried about Airi?
--[] About Niko?
--[] We'll all solve this. We just need to talk, be honest, and understand each other.
--[] What Hijiri wants to do once this is over. Offer transport services?
-[] Ask her to give us a chance. Ask for her cooperation. Shake on it?
--[] Could her powers help with the search?
--[] Bring up her telepathying.

Firnagzen said:
Mami, on the other hand, has a thoughtful look on her face. She crouches down to tap Kazumi on the shoulder. "Kazumi?"

"Yes, Mami-sempai?" Kazumi says, almost on reflex.
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Firnagzen said:
Mami has a proud smile on her face, and you grin at her.
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The Return Of Mami Senpai. :D

Kkutlord said:
If Sabrina confronts Hijiri about the telepathy, I think Sabrina should go like "You've been awfully quiet, talking with Niko back there?" So that way Sabrina gets two birds with one stone whilst avoiding a confrontation after all this work reasoning with her. However Sabrina also shouldn't get pushy about the Niko topic, and generally use this as an opportunity to further befriend her.

Though regarding Yuuri, did Sabrina clear her and the update just didn't go into details? Don't see any particular reason she wouldn't have. Hmm... Maybe it should become standard practice for Sabrina to clear every Seed she can? The process isn't too difficult and time consuming, plus making this standard operating procedure avoids similar or worse scenarios like just then. That, and having a surplus of Clear Seeds means Sabrina can hand them out should a Magical Girl she's helping be in too much of a rush for a new one.
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Haven't taken the time to Clear it, yet.
 
Redshirt Army said:
So, uh, did Sabrina just completely avoid mentioning the infobomb in that update?

Fixed by based Firn. Getting Oriko to support it is probably a good idea.
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For a moment there, I was gonna ask what was left out in the previous votes too, thinking 'oh shit, is this the mind control in action?'.

I was wondering if we could ask about Hijiri's previous meetings with Anri (where, when, and what about), which could lead to hints on where she's hiding. Maybe what their plans were if they did manage to get away from the Saints?

Edit: Maybe we could include Mami on the not!interrogation, turn this into a good cop-Best cop kind of talk?
 
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What're the chances that Hijiri is talking to Kyubey instead of Airi?
Firnagzen said:
Sayaka stands off to the side, gripping the edge of her cloak and frowning. A sharp jerk, and a twirl to the side, and there's a second Sayaka there, who grins at the original and holds up a hand for a high-five.
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Stylish.
Firnagzen said:
"I wouldn't mind trying your idea, with the ribbons to boost your range?" Mami suggests, and blushes. "It would, um. Probably take most of my attention, though."
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We can't not do it, not after Mami says this. I figure that this is about as close as she gets to saying that she wants to do it. And if Mumi wants soul-snuggles, Mumi gets soul-snuggles.
 
Vebyast said:
What're the chances that Hijiri is talking to Kyubey instead of Airi?
Stylish.
We can't not do it, not after Mami says this. I figure that this is about as close as she gets to saying that she wants to do it. And if Mumi wants soul-snuggles, Mumi gets soul-snuggles.
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Yeah, but talk to Hijiri first. Try to build some more trust.

Once we're Ribbon-Range-Extending, both Mami and us will be at our less capable of dealing with a sudden threat.

We should lower Hijiri's urges to try to escape before giving her that much of an opportunity.
 
Vebyast said:
What're the chances that Hijiri is talking to Kyubey instead of Airi?
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It's possible. I don't see a reason why though.

It's also possible that Niko is doing the same thing Mami and we do when she's at school and Hijiri is talking to her. Kinda contrary to Niko's statement about clearing her head though.

Hmmm... On the thought of what she could be talking about if she's talking to Anri... It's not really supported by any odd looks or anything but it also occurs to me that if Anri was searching for Aʀᴢᴛ Kᴏᴄʜᴇɴ and got the clear seed instead, even if she didn't tell Hijiri about what she was looking for, Hijiri might have known enough to have a good guess.

If Anri was looking for that seed and Hijiri knew, or guessed, that then she might have cottoned onto the fact that we singled out and took a specific seed from the Saints, saying that it was outright because of that particular seed. Us picking up something that certainly looks like a bargaining chip/hostage might be considered reason to tell Anri.
Vebyast said:
We can't not do it, not after Mami says this. I figure that this is about as close as she gets to saying that she wants to do it. And if Mumi wants soul-snuggles, Mumi gets soul-snuggles.
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I'll caution that we are talking about incapacitating ourselves while guarding a prisoner here.
 
Expanding on this:
I said:
Yeah, but talk to Hijiri first. Try to build some more trust.

Once we're Ribbon-Range-Extending, both Mami and us will be at our less capable of dealing with a sudden threat.

We should lower Hijiri's urges to try to escape before giving her that much of an opportunity.
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TL;DR at the bottom.

I know we've thrown around the terms 'good Hijiri', 'evil Hijiri', 'Hijiri ally/hostile', but we know that's a not-very-good oversimplification of things. The only Hijiri we need to analyze is 'complex character Hijiri'.

And 'complex character Hijiri' (just 'Hijiri', for short) has both urges to do things we would consider 'evil/hostile' and urges we'd consider 'good/allied'.

For example, consider sunk-cost fallacy, which many of you know better than me: Hijiri's already done so much for this 'screw the Pleiades' cause; she's just admitted to having met Airi repeatedly (and also said that neither of them were in charge).

Think of how much she just feels she should continues the 'screw Pleiades' plan, simply because she's come this far (and Airi's yelled her telepathic ear off, too).

Consider the simple aversion to change, and the fact Hijiri saw us as enemies first, people afterwards.

Pulling Hijiri over to 'our' side, making her accept that her plan needs to be abandoned, and put her faith is un (all of us), is not easy. Airi showing her crazy probably helps, and our handling of Hijiri has been done with pretty much just that in mind (and I want to reinforce this by talking with Hijiri about a better future, where she's not our captive, and not Niko's doll, and is free).

Before doing the Ribbon thing with Mami, we really should talk with Hijiri; she's not Evil, but she's got many reasons to want to escape, even if simply due to sheer momentum, and even if she herself is likely doubting that.



So, treat our captive right, try to help ease her mind, and try and get some compromise out of her, then show some trust by lowering our guard (enough to do the Ribbon thing)?
 
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I'll note that Mami would be incapped; Sabrina is unaffected. For example:
Firnagzen said:
"Right," you say. You can't help blushing yourself. You also can't help but notice that all noise from the kitchen has ceased. "That means... unless I can mitigate that somehow, then it means this isn't something we can use in combat or anything. I mean, a cuddly Mami isn't something I'm ever going to complain about, but distracting you in combat..."

Mami nods, blush deepening.

"Maybe... hmm. Maybe if you tried pushing your magic into the ribbon alongside mine?" you suggest. "Maybe it could... dilute the sensation?"

"Um," Mami says, raising her hand. The one with ribbon wound around her finger. She frowns, gathering magic, and you can feel it flooding down the ribbon.

"It... doesn't feel any different," Mami reports.

"Yeah," you agree, feeling faintly disappointed.

"Maybe, um," Mami says. "The ribbon is mine, and my magic is mine so it's mine and mine and it makes no difference but, um, yours and mine..." Mami trails off into incoherency, shaking her head.
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Mami's pretty solidly out of it here, but Sabrina isn't having any noticeable trouble.

Onmur said:
The only Hijiri we need to analyze is 'complex character Hijiri'.
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Sure. Or, rather, we're now dealing with "hostile Hijiri" - she is working to hurt the Pleiades - but she's not the cardboard cutout she was in canon. We do have to deal with her collaborating with Yuuri and trying to backstab us, we do have to deal with the fact that she is not in the mindset of trying to help us and that she'll be actively resisting therapy. But she's a complex antagonistic Hijiri with complex motivations and desires, so she's not a totally irredeemable monster. We can talk to her, we can help her heal. So yes, I think that we've nailed her down enough to start treating her as Just Hijiri.
 
dredloki said:
that doesnt sounds scary at all!!!
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Marcus.D.Basterd said:
...Well damn, but that's a good one.
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Not only that, but Firn has confirmed Sabrina's witch is Ontological Threat on the same level as Homucifer and Madokami. It's been theorized that letting her off the leash would reduce the universe to a soup of elementary particles and raw Grief, where Sabrina/Dedolere would spend the rest of eternity simulating her days with her friends.

And that's just one of the many ways we can render reality uninhabitable! Yaaay!
 
Vebyast said:
I'll note that Mami would be incapped; Sabrina is unaffected. For example:

Mami's pretty solidly out of it here, but Sabrina isn't having any noticeable trouble.


Sure. Or, rather, we're now dealing with "hostile Hijiri" - she is working to hurt the Pleiades - but she's not the cardboard cutout she was in canon. We do have to deal with her collaborating with Yuuri and trying to backstab us, we do have to deal with the fact that she is not in the mindset of trying to help us and that she'll be actively resisting therapy. But she's a complex antagonistic Hijiri with complex motivations and desires, so she's not a totally irredeemable monster. We can talk to her, we can help her heal. So yes, I think that we've nailed her down enough to start treating her as Just Hijiri.
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We would be concentrating on using the expanded range to find Airi, though, and Sabrina's thinking speed is not that great at combat speeds. We usually let our guard down because Mami's got us covered; if Hijiri does try to attack us (literally from behind with a Limiti Esterni), we don't have the reaction time for it.

So I would do it... after securing some more trust from Hijiri.

Vebyast said:
start treating her as Just Hijiri.
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"Hello, Hijiri, Just Hijiri. I'm Sabrina, Just Sabrina."
 
Shadowhisker said:
Not only that, but Firn has confirmed Sabrina's witch is Ontological Threat on the same level as Homucifer and Madokami. It's been theorized that letting her off the leash would reduce the universe to a soup of elementary particles and raw Grief, where Sabrina/Dedolere would spend the rest of eternity simulating her days with her friends.

And that's just one of the many ways we can render reality uninhabitable! Yaaay!
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Well shit, now i'm wondering if that has already happened; we should really get some more realities in case something like that happens.
 
Firnagzen said:
"I think you made a good start," Mami says, taking a careful breath. "Suggesting that everyone group up before moving in. But it's not a guarantee..." She bites her lip. "Maybe you should ask Miss Mikuni to tell them explicitly that Anri is too dangerous to face without backup?"
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Ah, Mumi.
Bless her helpful, trusting heart.

[Q] Hijiri
-[Q] "Kneel and repent!"
--[Q] "Cast off your old beliefs and be saved!"
---[Q] Forcibly convert her to Madokamiism.
 
Vebyast said:
I'll note that Mami would be incapped; Sabrina is unaffected. For example:
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As Onmur said: The problem isn't us both being out, it's being at half-strength.

Beyond Hijiri herself taking action, any sufficient distraction could let her think she has the opportunity to escape. Which could work if Mami is the main one binding her. If we're the ones to find Anri for example and are too distracted by dealing with her before we've recalled all our grief.

Alternatively, if we're using grief magic sensors that probably involves griefhax, which involves a point where we're incapacitated while building it and Mami has to look after both us and Hijiri.
 
[Q] "Hey Hijiri, are you almost done with your call? I'd like to talk to you, but you've been at it for like... how long ago did we catch you? Let's say, an hour, or so."
 
Shadowhisker said:
Not only that, but Firn has confirmed Sabrina's witch is Ontological Threat on the same level as Homucifer and Madokami. It's been theorized that letting her off the leash would reduce the universe to a soup of elementary particles and raw Grief, where Sabrina/Dedolere would spend the rest of eternity simulating her days with her friends.
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How do we know that hasn't already happened?

I suppose this is one of those "regardless, there is no reason not to act as though it hasn't" situations.
 
veteranMortal said:
How do we know that hasn't already happened?

I suppose this is one of those "regardless, there is no reason not to act as though it hasn't" situations.
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This is one of those "Am I living in a dream?" questions that are quite popular in the recent years.
The answer for Sabrina should be "So what?"
So, basically, yeah.
 
Okay, so guys: we need to ask Hijiri about the telepathy. We shouldn't be hostile or accusatory about it--we just have to ask her about it. It's possible she's communicating with Niko, after all. But if she's communicating with Anri behind our backs, we need to know now, and we need to get on top of that.

[] Ask Hijiri about her using telepathy, but without any hostility.
-[] If she's communicating with Hijri, ask her what's she's saying and what's being said in return. If she's evasive or refuses to answer: tell her that things will go much better for her if Anri is caught, and the sooner she's caught, the sooner Hijiri can get on with her life.
-[] If she's communicating with Niko, ask her about how she's feeling with regards to that matter.
[] Begin the sensor-plus-ribbon search.
 
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My gut tells me that Hijiri is in telepathy with Airi...trying to de-escalate.

I mean, looking at things objectively, we're giving Hijiri basically everything she wants and as disgruntled as she is she has to know we're the best camp right now. Airi, meanwhile, is not only fucking insane and pissed at Hijiri for selling her out, but also likely to target her because she's a clone of one of Yuuri's killers.

There's a very strong possibility Hijiri is trying to pull out and extricate herself from sinking with the Airi team even if she's not exactly on our side yet.
 
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