By the way: As far as I can tell Hitomi only ever got the lichbomb and NOT the griefbomb a.k.a. meguca need to hunt or they inevitably "die" due to accumulating grief, where her (Hitomis) comparison of meguca to firefighters comes from, instead of with - oh I dunno - child soldiers or whatever that is not a job whose first purpose is saving lives and instead is a "rules of the jungle" type thing.
Sorry for possible incoherence, can hardly believe I am actually posting in my, like, first thread that has ever been my favourite and still gives me great amounts of joy and positive thought-provokers.
Madoka: There, right there
Look at that pale yet well-groomed skin
Look at the pants she fits great in
Look at that pleasing giddy grin
Oh please, she's gay, totally gay
Mami: I'm not about to celebrate
Every trait could indicate
A totally straight expatriate
This gal's not gay, I say, not gay
All: That is the elephant in the room
Well, is it best to just assume
That the girl who feels like doom
Is automatically genically fay?
Madoka: But look at the pants she wears instead
During the day and not to bed Sayaka: Mami my friend, don't lose your head.
Look, what we're seeing, All: What are we seeing? Sayaka: Is she gay? Madoka: Of course she's gay. Sayaka: Or European?
All: Ooooohhhh.
Gay or European?
It's hard to guarantee
Is she gay or European? Homura: Well hey, don't look at me
All: You see, they raise girls up
Quite differently with few judgmental looks
They play in shallow brooks
They're proud and strong and that's the hook
All: Gay or foreign lady?
The answer could take weeks
They will say "Come on, Mami,"
And then kiss you on both cheeks Sayaka: You see?
All: Gay or European?
We'll never know today Madoka: Depending on the time of day, she's here or on her way. All: Is she gay or European or
Kyouko: There, right there!
Look at that smarmy knowing smirk
Seen in on store and hotel clerks
She is a twisted scheming jerk
That gal's not gay, I say no way
All: That is the Yuma: tsundere All: in the room
Well is she correct to assume
That the girl in that costume Madoka: Is automatically, radically, Sayaka: Ironically, chronically, Mami: Certainly, hopefully, Homura: Genetically, medically gay? All: Officially gay, officially gay, gay, gay, gay
Sabrina is seen staring intently at Kwysibuu and Hitmoi in the distance
All: Dammit, gay or European? Mami: So stylish and relaxed All: Is she gay or European? Homura: Her magic stat is maxed
Sayaka: But they bring their girls up different
There it's culturally diverse
There's no need to alert
If she wears those pants and not a skirt
All: Gay or just exotic?
I still can't crack the code Mami: Yes, her eyes are just hypnotic Sayaka: But her hair looks like it's mowed
All: Gay or European?
So many shades of gray Madoka: But if she turns out straight
I'll do Sayaka's next essay
All: Is she gay or European?
Gay or European?
Gay or Euro?
Nagisa: Wait a minute
Give me a chance to crack this gal
I have an idea I'd like to try All: Have at it then
Nagisa waves down Sabrina
Nagisa: So, big sis Brina
You've been in Mitakihara city
For how long now? Sabrina: A few weeks Nagisa: And your last name is? Sabrina: Haven't decided. Nagisa: And your girlfriend's name is? Sabrina: Mami All: Gasp
Sabrina: I mean, um, she's just a friend
Mami is my best friend, but um, we're not dating….
Well, I mean…
Yet All: What?
Sabrina: That's it, I can't take this anymore.
Everyone, I have a big announcement
I am both gay and European Everyone: Whoa
Sabrina: But I've been rather slow
My brain's been undecided on how a great first date should go
It's me that's gay for Mami
In denial, I am not
Sabrina grabs Mami's hands
Sabrina: I swear I've never thought about another girl this way
I am so gay, I just can't say
Just where oh where to make her day
Mami: You're gay! Sabrina: As is my mothers' way
So if I may, I'd love to say
Sabrina: I'm gay All: and European Mami: She's gay All: and European
She's gay and European and gay Sabrina: Shall we go to Nice? Mami: Ok!
You know... looking at Sabrinas canon Questdesign... I wonder how there was AFAIR not a "bigger" reaction to her having the same "gemshape" in comparison to Homura, or how the Soul Gem color itself is less silver, but more "surface of the moon", which compared to the literal halfmoon in Homucifers Barrierworld could have interesting implications.
Is Sabrina somehow connected to that "missing" half of the moon? Is she a bit of Homura that she lost when she "ascended" to devilhood?
I don't know, but there is something there I feel, especially with the amount of preparation that went into this Quest and how things like Kirikas Antimagic went overlooked for so long.
On another note: I like how Mami and Sabrina are pretty much a nice alchemic combination of "a heart of gold" and "a soul of silver", if Soul Gems are both heart and soul at once.
Gives a nice mythological (if that is the right word) flavor to their relationship: the decisive girl of talent and action and the tactical girl of a thousand (more or less) well-thought plans.
Homucifer is not yet a thing that has happened in this universe, much like Madokami is not yet a thing. As such, any speculation regarding those two is entirely premature.
Madoka: There, right there
Look at that pale yet well-groomed skin
Look at the pants she fits great in
Look at that pleasing giddy grin
Oh please, she's gay, totally gay
Mami: I'm not about to celebrate
Every trait could indicate
A totally straight expatriate
This gal's not gay, I say, not gay
All: That is the elephant in the room
Well, is it best to just assume
That the girl who feels like doom
Is automatically genically fay?
Madoka: But look at the pants she wears instead
During the day and not to bed Sayaka: Mami my friend, don't lose your head.
Look, what we're seeing, All: What are we seeing? Sayaka: Is she gay? Madoka: Of course she's gay. Sayaka: Or European?
All: Ooooohhhh.
Gay or European?
It's hard to guarantee
Is she gay or European? Homura: Well hey, don't look at me
All: You see, they raise girls up
Quite differently with few judgmental looks
They play in shallow brooks
They're proud and strong and that's the hook
All: Gay or foreign lady?
The answer could take weeks
They will say "Come on, Mami,"
And then kiss you on both cheeks Sayaka: You see?
All: Gay or European?
We'll never know today Madoka: Depending on the time of day, she's here or on her way. All: Is she gay or European or
Kyouko: There, right there!
Look at that smarmy knowing smirk
Seen in on store and hotel clerks
She is a twisted scheming jerk
That gal's not gay, I say no way
All: That is the Yuma: tsundere All: in the room
Well is she correct to assume
That the girl in that costume Madoka: Is automatically, radically, Sayaka: Ironically, chronically, Mami: Certainly, hopefully, Homura: Genetically, medically gay? All: Officially gay, officially gay, gay, gay, gay
Sabrina is seen staring intently at Kwysibuu and Hitmoi in the distance
All: Dammit, gay or European? Mami: So stylish and relaxed All: Is she gay or European? Homura: Her magic stat is maxed
Sayaka: But they bring their girls up different
There it's culturally diverse
There's no need to alert
If she wears those pants and not a skirt
All: Gay or just exotic?
I still can't crack the code Mami: Yes, her eyes are just hypnotic Sayaka: But her hair looks like it's mowed
All: Gay or European?
So many shades of gray Madoka: But if she turns out straight
I'll do Sayaka's next essay
All: Is she gay or European?
Gay or European?
Gay or Euro?
Nagisa: Wait a minute
Give me a chance to crack this gal
I have an idea I'd like to try All: Have at it then
Nagisa waves down Sabrina
Nagisa: So, big sis Brina
You've been in Mitakihara city
For how long now? Sabrina: A few weeks Nagisa: And your last name is? Sabrina: Haven't decided. Nagisa: And your girlfriend's name is? Sabrina: Mami All: Gasp
Sabrina: I mean, um, she's just a friend
Mami is my best friend, but um, we're not dating….
Well, I mean…
Yet All: What?
Sabrina: That's it, I can't take this anymore.
Everyone, I have a big announcement
I am both gay and European Everyone: Whoa
Sabrina: But I've been rather slow
My brain's been undecided on how a great first date should go
It's me that's gay for Mami
In denial, I am not
Sabrina grabs Mami's hands
Sabrina: I swear I've never thought about another girl this way
I am so gay, I just can't say
Just where oh where to make her day
Mami: You're gay! Sabrina: As is my mothers' way
So if I may, I'd love to say
Sabrina: I'm gay All: and European Mami: She's gay All: and European
She's gay and European and gay Sabrina: Shall we go to Nice? Mami: Ok!
The votes aren't all that different. The majority is for "go hunt and tell Homura we have to talk to her later" with variations, with a minority for not setting up the talk with Homura.
Homucifer is not yet a thing that has happened in this universe, much like Madokami is not yet a thing. As such, any speculation regarding those two is entirely premature.
I got quoted... *Squeeeee~*
But on your point: I can see your point but wish to point out that both Madokami and Homucifer are not part of a linear progression of time, as Madokami managed to OHK her own Witch in front of Homuras eyes *at the end of time, for earlier then that there could have been more witches forthcoming to become part of Ubergretchen*, without her having to wait a few million years (or less as the earth was decidedly not ded AFAIR), after which she got returned to the, or rather "a" present time.
Not to mention how Homura must have broken the time stream somewhat to remove a "concept of meguca salvation" before her job was actually done.
And as I may have not addressed your point, here is another thing to consider: Sabrina saw an "image" of Madokami when looking at Madoka for the first time in Unforeseen Consequences pt. 1, which shows that the information of "Concept Madoka Savior Of All, Vanquisher Of Despair" must already exist in some form at least.
But I may also be wrong *shrug*, just consider it fun to speculate. For without erring a hundred million times, there are still a hundred million failures left to make, if one lacks the needed information.
Frankenvote time!
[X] Agree, a quick hunt should be fine
-[X] Show off some. You have a valid excuse this time; why not make the most of it?
-[X] Watch the time; you don't want to be late for the Sendai / Ishinomaki trip
[X] Give Madoka reassurances and promise to talk later.
[X] Setup the serioustalk for later with Homura in timestop.
[X] After we go, ask if Homura's going to hang out with Madoka. If she isn't, nudge her to.
Frankenvote time!
[X] Agree, a quick hunt should be fine
-[X] Show off some. You have a valid excuse this time; why not make the most of it?
-[X] Watch the time; you don't want to be late for the Sendai / Ishinomaki trip
[X] Give Madoka reassurances and promise to talk later.
[X] Setup the serioustalk for later with Homura in timestop.
[X] After we go, ask if Homura's going to hang out with Madoka. If she isn't, nudge her to.
[X] Agree, a quick hunt should be fine
-[X] Show off some. You have a valid excuse this time; why not make the most of it?
-[X] Watch the time; you don't want to be late for the Sendai / Ishinomaki trip
[X] Give Madoka reassurances and promise to talk later.
[X] Setup the serioustalk for later with Homura in timestop.
[X] After we go, ask if Homura's going to hang out with Madoka. If she isn't, nudge her to.
True; mostly this is because I like @Godwinson's vote, but we really do need to watch the time because the Ishinomaki + Sendai trips are probably going to take a combined 4-5 hours, so we can't start it too late or else we won't be able to get to the Homura + Madoka talk again, and we really need to get that over with ASAP. School starts up again tomorrow, and we plan for Sabrina to be at Asunano most of the day I think; that's a perfect time for Kyubey to try to pull something.
You know, I wonder if we could properly demonstrate the sheer scope of our knowledge by recreating a game of the present and giving it to them to play? Like Breath of the Wild and such.
I mean... random facts is one thing, but the ability to throw out the largest Nintendo project half a decade into the future, may illustrate that so much more, seeing as how such a feat would be A: a good teambonding experience and B: would show how Sabrina herself may be, even without magical girl powers, literal magic.
Smash 4 may also be a good alternative, or Pokemon SuMo, especially seeing how Brawl is relatively unchanged AFAIR, leading me to theorize that gaming may be pretty "on schedule" even taking Magic and Incubators into account.
Do you think anyone may ever have made a wish to see a certain ship set sail? Like would those girls get magical shipping powers? Literal Shipping googles? OTP-Lasers? What (glorious) madness could spawn of such a heartfelt desire?
Am just curious
[X] Agree, a quick hunt should be fine
-[X] Show off some. You have a valid excuse this time; why not make the most of it?
-[X] Watch the time; you don't want to be late for the Sendai / Ishinomaki trip
[X] Give Madoka reassurances and promise to talk later.
[X] Setup the serioustalk for later with Homura in timestop.
[X] After we go, ask if Homura's going to hang out with Madoka. If she isn't, nudge her to.
That's true! Madokami and Akuma Homura are both able to use time travel, and thus appear to be able to change the past. However, time travel in PMMM is limited by it's nature; it is an operation across parallel timelines.
Consider Homura, for example. In Timeline 1, she wished to be able to do everything over again, and protect Madoka. So she - from her perspective - traveled back in time, entering Timeline 2, and was able to change her own past.
However, she did not really change her past. She changed the course of events in Timeline 2, but the events of Timeline 1 still happened, and cannot be undone. Likewise, when Homura failed to save Madoka in Timeline 2, she entered Timeline 3, and changed the course of events in Timeline 3. But the events of Timeline 2 also happened. And so on and so forth. Information (e.g. Homura's memories, and some of Madoka's memories), physical matter and energy (e.g. anything Homura takes with her in her shield, like her Witch cheat sheet), and magic (e.g. Homura's Soul Gem and Madoka's 'karmic potential') from an arbitrary Timeline N are able to interact with (and propagate forward into) Timeline N+1, but they cannot interact with Timeline N-1.
(Whether the multiple timelines exist independent of time travelers and time travelers merely travel between preexisting timelines, or if time travel creates new timelines and destroys old timelines, is something I don't know the answer to; I lean towards the latter interpetation for helping to explain Madoka's increasing karmic destiny and potential)
At the end of canon PMMM (let's call it Timeline M), Madoka made a time-bending wish to "erase Witches before they are born". Like Homura's time travel created new timelines, Madoka's time travel also created a new timeline, Timeline M+1, this time more explicitly called out in the narrative as the creation of a new "universe". Akuma Homura and Madokami only exist in Timeline M+1, and going forward into subsequent timelines.
Sabrina (and the world of PMAS by extention), on the other hand, do not exist in Timeline M+1 or in any subsequent timeline. Akuma Homura and Madokami cannot interact with Sabrina or PMAS in any meaningful way, because timelines can only have causal interaction with subsequent timelines. In fact, I would argue that Sabrina and PMAS do not even exist anywhere in the canon progression from Timeline 1 to Timeline M+1; PMAS exists in an alternate sequence of timelines, with a divergence point in one of Madoka's wishes or in the fiat intervention of the quest master.
TL;DR: PMAS exists beyond the reach of Akuma Homura for both Watsonian and Doylist reasons. I think.
Madokami managed to OHK her own Witch in front of Homuras eyes *at the end of time, for earlier then that there could have been more witches forthcoming to become part of Ubergretchen*, without her having to wait a few million years (or less as the earth was decidedly not ded AFAIR), after which she got returned to the, or rather "a" present time.
I don't think Homura removed any concepts. Madoka made a wish to erase Witches, which would have been an instantaneous effect enacted upon the world independent of her person (e.g. Sayaka made a wish and Kyousuke's hand was healed, but Sayaka didn't need to heal him personally). However, Madoka wished that Witches would be erased by her "own hands", and thus she was entangled with her own wish, becoming Madokami as we know her. In Rebellion, Homura merely divorced Madoka (the person) from her wish (the universal conceptual force of salvation which acts across time to erase Witches).
(Whether Homura did nothing wrong, or did everything wrong, is a point of contention)
And as I may have not addressed your point, here is another thing to consider: Sabrina saw an "image" of Madokami when looking at Madoka for the first time in Unforeseen Consequences pt. 1, which shows that the information of "Concept Madoka Savior Of All, Vanquisher Of Despair" must already exist in some form at least.
The idea of Madokami exists, but I believe it only exists in Sabrina's mind. We (that is to say, the voters) exist outside of the canon PMMM sequence of timelines, and we have knowledge of some of the canon timelines. Our knowledge exists in Sabrina, but (critically) Sabrina exists in a divergent timeline sequence from canon.
But I may also be wrong *shrug*, just consider it fun to speculate. For without erring a hundred million times, there are still a hundred million failures left to make, if one lacks the needed information.
