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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Guys, I think you're all forgetting something. The reason Homura couldn't timestop then is because they were already timestopped. Homura faked a suicide attempt so she could sever the ribbon connecting her to (fake ribbon) Mami so that Mami would be timestopped. The when she tries to shoot that timestopped Mami, she discovers that it's a fake made of ribbons and that the real Mami had another ribbon on her. Time is stopped for that entire scene. Mami's immune because she's in contact with Homura.
 
Yes, well, we have canon precedent and the testimony of the author while you're trying to make up an entirely new mechanic which is utter bullshit and contradicts what we see.

Also, why would any such limitation exist inside Homura's own fucking mind?

And no, Narrator, Homura had to un-Timestop so the bullet could go through Mami's knee.
 
The Narrator said:
Guys, I think you're all forgetting something. The reason Homura couldn't timestop then is because they were already timestopped. Homura faked a suicide attempt so she could sever the ribbon connecting her to (fake ribbon) Mami so that Mami would be timestopped. The when she tries to shoot that timestopped Mami, she discovers that it's a fake made of ribbons and that the real Mami had another ribbon on her. Time is stopped for that entire scene. Mami's immune because she's in contact with Homura.
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wow. light wow
Homura managed to seperate herself from Mami then shot at 'her' leg she then released the timestop so that Mami would get hit, she then found out it was a clone and got caught due to either
A. she utterly panicked
B. she couldn't use timestop again cause she overused it over a rather large amount of time
I am arguing B, they are arguing A.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Yes, well, we have canon precedent and the testimony of the author while you're trying to make up an entirely new mechanic which is utter bullshit and contradicts what we see.

Also, why would any such limitation exist inside Homura's own fucking mind?

And no, Narrator, Homura had to un-Timestop so the bullet could go through Mami's knee.
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Yes double post, if Homura had a limitation with the magic in the real world why would she think she lost it while inside her own brain having no realization that she is inside her own brain. -_-
After all feelings effect magic thus if she had such a limitation her own subconscious would enforce it.

Also this is the Same Author who stated that he put little forethought on how Homura's Magic did what it did so I will be fully willingly not listen to closely to it unless if its stated in universe by someone who knows what they are talking about.
 
Look, I'm sorry, but if it was a problem of overheating, there'd atleast be some visual indication like the shield glowing, smoking, heating up, or canceling a Time Stop mid-use.

Also, it flies in the face of the Soul Gem/Corruption mechanic. There's ALREADY something measuring Homura's ability to use Time Stop, along with the falling of the sands which measure out her month's worth perfectly.

You're proposing a third that isn't even vaguely hinted at when there's three other solutions that actually ARE discussed or brought up.

Show evidence of the shield overheating or acting up, and explain why it can't be chalked up to human error, corruption costs, or the fucking hourglass mechanic we have production note artwork of, meaning Urobuchi planned it out before the anime even aired.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Look, I'm sorry, but if it was a problem of overheating, there'd atleast be some visual indication like the shield glowing, smoking, heating up, or canceling a Time Stop mid-use.
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Note that there kind of is, actually:

Note the sound of Homura's shield slowly winding down until it stops and dumps her out of time stop before she was really ready. You actually see it happening a lot in that particular episode/section of the movie, times when Homura was relatively new to her powers and didn't have such good control; the fact that you don't hear it in "modern day" Homura means that she probably learned to overcome that limitation, much how Mami learned to turn ribbons into muskets and imbue them with conceptual properties, but it doesn't mean that Homura doesn't still have some areas where she is still limited, like a recharge time or something.
 
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AuraTwilight said:
Look, I'm sorry, but if it was a problem of overheating, there'd atleast be some visual indication like the shield glowing, smoking, heating up, or canceling a Time Stop mid-use.

Also, it flies in the face of the Soul Gem/Corruption mechanic. There's ALREADY something measuring Homura's ability to use Time Stop, along with the falling of the sands which measure out her month's worth perfectly.

You're proposing a third that isn't even vaguely hinted at when there's three other solutions that actually ARE discussed or brought up.

Show evidence of the shield overheating or acting up, and explain why it can't be chalked up to human error, corruption costs, or the fucking hourglass mechanic we have production note artwork of, meaning Urobuchi planned it out before the anime even aired.
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The whole Sand falling is obtusely the shield getting closer to perform the magical ability to go back in time, after all Homura's soul gem at the start of a loop is perfectly clean, despite having done a magical wonder greater then everything short of Madoka's rise to godhood after all, Homura's perfectly clean soul gem after that magical act must be some complex shield magic thingy.

As for examples to signs that my idea of how Homura's time stop work well, when Homura is scaring Kyoko Homura's timestops are instance their is no warning no lag no 'hearing the clocks on the shield make noise' Vs the time in Rebellion were Homura's Timestop is so slow to start that Sayaka can interrupt it and stop it from happening. My reasoning thus points out that Homura's shield is slow due to the fact that is was used a lot recently in big ways. Another example of when the Shield is working slower then Homura's scaring of Kyoko is in the anime after Kyoko got the jump on her, the activation of timestop was slow enough that she hear the click of the shield before the flash bomb went off.

As for a amusing point to this whole thing, Word of god means little when it is canon that a Magical girl's feelings can effect her own magic, if for instant Homura believes the same theory I do, then her Magic could very well work how I think it works, and considering Homura is aware that her shield can stop working but hasn't noticed a time limit on her timestop (aka she knows it can stop working but seems to not know it when it will happen) now unless you think Homura hasn't come to the conclusion that she cant stop time when her shield has fully spun the hourglass in it, and considering the fact that she wasn't prepared for it to stop during her battle with Wally, is it possible that she is able to stop time when her hourglass if full cause if she can then I am right and if not then I am wrong.

Now if you want this to keep this going we should move it over to Mami's house.
 
The Narrator said:
Guys, I think you're all forgetting something. The reason Homura couldn't timestop then is because they were already timestopped. Homura faked a suicide attempt so she could sever the ribbon connecting her to (fake ribbon) Mami so that Mami would be timestopped. The when she tries to shoot that timestopped Mami, she discovers that it's a fake made of ribbons and that the real Mami had another ribbon on her. Time is stopped for that entire scene. Mami's immune because she's in contact with Homura.
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No it's not. Rewatch the scene: Mami is thoroughly frozen in the timestop, and the bullet freezes before making contact. Homura then releases timestop so the bullet can conclude its flight path, and is blindsided by omgwtftoomanyribbons.
 
TheEyes said:
Note that there kind of is, actually:

Note the sound of Homura's shield slowly winding down until it stops and dumps her out of time stop before she was really ready. You actually see it happening a lot in that particular episode/section of the movie, times when Homura was relatively new to her powers and didn't have such good control; the fact that you don't hear it in "modern day" Homura means that she probably learned to overcome that limitation, much how Mami learned to turn ribbons into muskets and imbue them with conceptual properties, but it doesn't mean that Homura doesn't still have some areas where she is still limited, like a recharge time or something.
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Um...not really? There's no indication that Homura didn't release it intentionally, and she has to conserve corruption, aaaaand she really needs Mami to catch her in free-fall so she'd of had to release it then anyway...

The sound/winding down also does play in the present in a few places, namely the scene where Homura rescues Kyouko from a newly hatched Octavia.

The sound/wind-down is ALSO absent from Homura's training session BEFORE the Patricia fight. The more likelier explanation is that she can set her shield to do a time-release so she doesn't have to manually release it while her hands are occupied, or if she knows exactly how long she needs.

Since something like that is a function of actual clocks.

SpeckofStardust said:
The whole Sand falling is obtusely the shield getting closer to perform the magical ability to go back in time, after all Homura's soul gem at the start of a loop is perfectly clean, despite having done a magical wonder greater then everything short of Madoka's rise to godhood after all, Homura's perfectly clean soul gem after that magical act must be some complex shield magic thingy.

As for examples to signs that my idea of how Homura's time stop work well, when Homura is scaring Kyoko Homura's timestops are instance their is no warning no lag no 'hearing the clocks on the shield make noise' Vs the time in Rebellion were Homura's Timestop is so slow to start that Sayaka can interrupt it and stop it from happening. My reasoning thus points out that Homura's shield is slow due to the fact that is was used a lot recently in big ways. Another example of when the Shield is working slower then Homura's scaring of Kyoko is in the anime after Kyoko got the jump on her, the activation of timestop was slow enough that she hear the click of the shield before the flash bomb went off.

As for a amusing point to this whole thing, Word of god means little when it is canon that a Magical girl's feelings can effect her own magic, if for instant Homura believes the same theory I do, then her Magic could very well work how I think it works, and considering Homura is aware that her shield can stop working but hasn't noticed a time limit on her timestop (aka she knows it can stop working but seems to not know it when it will happen) now unless you think Homura hasn't come to the conclusion that she cant stop time when her shield has fully spun the hourglass in it, and considering the fact that she wasn't prepared for it to stop during her battle with Wally, is it possible that she is able to stop time when her hourglass if full cause if she can then I am right and if not then I am wrong.

Now if you want this to keep this going we should move it over to Mami's house.
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Homura's Soul Gem cleansing is because she rewound her personal time. Not a big deal.

The rest I don't need to respond to because Homura's Revenge says you're wrong. The failure of Time Stop during Walpy-fight is something she knows about and takes into account, but the failure is pretty much coinciding with Madoka's arrival to sacrifice herself so it probably has a margin of error that catches her by surprise a few times.

Again, meaningfully demonstrate Homura's Time Stop functions like you're saying. "Homura can be surprised and can be bested in a contest of reflexes" and "Sometimes her time shield is slower/faster on the uptake for the sake of screentime pacing" aren't sufficient.

Homura's beliefs about her magic are also irrelevant. That's not how PMMM's magic system works.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Uh...no, it's not. The fact that the witch-bomb EXISTS means that belief doesn't dictate magic.
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... You yourself stated that Homura didn't become a witch in a possible timeline due to being content with life.... Madoka's statement that if her wish was truly granted then she would never have a reason to fall to despair, Kyoko No longer being able to use her Illusion magic cause she was tramistised and rejected being a hero, Homura's emotions connecting her to Madoka after Madoka's wish even though she no longer existed, the fact that Emotions are a prequirement to use magic in the first place, what homura did at the end of rebellion, I could go on if I need to.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
B. she couldn't use timestop again cause she overused it over a rather large amount of time
I am arguing B, they are arguing A.
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The issue with B is that from in quest we had Homura maintain it for hours. The only problem that occurred was when Kirika antimagic'd it. The only limitation on time and use seems to be grief supply.

Honestly I'm kind of confused about what this argument is supposed to achieve in quest. If Homura has some hitherto unknown limitation on the power, we certainly don't seem to have much issue running into it. What would it change?
 
SpeckofStardust said:
... You yourself stated that Homura didn't become a witch in a possible timeline due to being content with life.... Madoka's statement that if her wish was truly granted then she would never have a reason to fall to despair, Kyoko No longer being able to use her Illusion magic cause she was tramistised and rejected being a hero, Homura's emotions connecting her to Madoka after Madoka's wish even though she no longer existed, the fact that Emotions are a prequirement to use magic in the first place, what homura did at the end of rebellion, I could go on if I need to.
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Those are emotional states of mind, not fucking beliefs or theorums of metaphyiscs, Speck. Do I have to explain the difference?
 
Gadjo said:
The issue with B is that from in quest we had Homura maintain it for hours. The only problem that occurred was when Kirika antimagic'd it. The only limitation on time and use seems to be grief supply.

Honestly I'm kind of confused about what this argument is supposed to achieve in quest. If Homura has some hitherto unknown limitation on the power, we certainly don't seem to have much issue running into it. What would it change?
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This is starting to cross into arguing fervently over slight possibilities, might be time to stop and relax.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
Bull. Utter complete bull.
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AuraTwilight said:
Those are emotional states of mind, not fucking beliefs or theorums of metaphyiscs, Speck. Do I have to explain the difference?
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Cool it, you two. You're becoming disruptive and uncivil.

It's an interesting enough topic, but definitely not relevant for PMAS: Homura's Time Stop works as long as she has Magic to power it. It's unclear what happens on Walpurgisnacht, but that's easily addressed by asking her.

Take it to PMs or the Maisonette if you want to continue.
 
Onmur said:
Read this as "I get political in a stupid way when I'm awake for too long."
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[Generic joke about voting for currently dominant American political party here]

It's a good thing we're Japanese!


So yeah, to unnecessarily add my two yen on the argument at hand, why not just ask Homura? Especially if it happens midway through the fight, she should know. And she might be able to give us ideas on how to prevent it if possible; her power would prove immensely useful for feathers and setting up the pseudo-MSY. Both of which would serve to dissuade Madoka further from contracting as well as helping other meguca and the muggles, even.

Besides, I feel like Homura might appreciate a bit of bluntness when we're concerned, since she's not great at social, and her self-esteem is such that she might not even realize we could be concerned about her too.
 
I just got reminded we still haven't asked Kirika to be Best Buddies.

We're literally the worst. The worst ever.

:p
 
I thought it was just assumed. When two people give each other advice about their ojous, that's a bond not easily broken.
 
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