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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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AuraTwilight said:
The Buddhist Noble Truth of "All Desire leads to Suffering."
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That's not some elevated and untouchable position, y'know. There are schools of thought that disagree with it. Or, in other words, why must all desire lead to suffering? It's entirely possible to have a coherent set of metaphysics where that's not the case, and I don't appreciate your implication otherwise.
 
Redshirt Army said:
That's not some elevated and untouchable position, y'know. There are schools of thought that disagree with it. Or, in other words, why must all desire lead to suffering? It's entirely possible to have a coherent set of metaphysics where that's not the case, and I don't appreciate your implication otherwise.
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It's literally called a "Noble Truth" in the texts of Buddhism, I wasn't personally elevating it.

However, Urobuchi is strongly influenced by Buddhist thought and references and thematic allusions to it are utterly rife throughout PMMM and a bunch of other shit he's written so it seems like it's atleast allegorically canon to his world.
 
AuraTwilight said:
A Universe was destroyed, but a universe was born. Witches don't exist, but Wraiths do. Madoka doesn't exist, but a God does.

Sayaka healing Kyousuke and then not confessing her feelings to him opens him up to be stolen by Hitomi. Kyouko wishing for her father to be successful without respecting his values caused him to lose his mind. Mami wishing to save herself but regretting not saving her parents causes her to crave something she can't have. Homura wishing to protect Madoka leads to Homura having to deny Madoka her agency and self-actualization.
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This is exactly what I was referring to when I said the Madoka's PMAS wish was superior to her canonical one - that these pitfalls are an inevitable and unchangable outcome is a tragedy that should be fought against in and of itself.

I have a vauge inkling that the PMAS version of Madoka's wish was generated due to additional foreknowledge of the fate it would lead to in Rebellion, and in an attempt to avert it.

AuraTwilight said:
It's literally called a "Noble Truth" in the texts of Buddhism, I wasn't personally elevating it.

However, Urobuchi is strongly influenced by Buddhist thought and references and thematic allusions to it are utterly rife throughout PMMM and a bunch of other shit he's written so it seems like it's atleast allegorically canon to his world.
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I absolutely agree - Urobuchi's vision of PMMM is trapped within that set of outcomes, and a cruel fate befalls Madoka even after her wish because of it. But this is a seperate narrative, written by a different author, and Firnagzen is entirely within his rights to deconstruct and reconstruct the assumptions that Urobuchi applied to his own work. Death of the author is in full swing, here.
 
Redshirt Army said:
This is exactly what I was referring to when I said the Madoka's PMAS wish was superior to her canonical one - that these pitfalls are an inevitable and unchangable outcome is a tragedy that should be fought against in and of itself.

I have a vauge inkling that the PMAS version of Madoka's wish was generated due to additional foreknowledge of the fate it would lead to in Rebellion, and in an attempt to avert it.
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Possible.

I absolutely agree - Urobuchi's vision of PMMM is trapped within that set of outcomes, and a cruel fate befalls Madoka even after her wish because of it. But this is a seperate narrative, written by a different author, and Firnagzen is entirely within his rights to deconstruct and reconstruct the assumptions that Urobuchi applied to his own work. Death of the author is in full swing, here.
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Yes, 100% agreed, and there's some hints he's already done so. But for the sake of understanding the differences it's kind of critical to keep in mind what Karmic Destiny is supposed to mean, which is something Firn does actually understand and seems to be utilizing.
 
Yea, no, I thought your fundamental point was solid, I just wanted to prune misconceptions and fat so that people didn't get the wrong idea, as demonstrably happened when people brought up Buddhism at all (it honestly wasn't relevant, especially since Firn's vaguely implied that last-timeline!Madoka is working on a more Christian/Western worldview [Which might be why Sabrina's caucasian]).
 
Redshirt Army said:
I have a vauge inkling that the PMAS version of Madoka's wish was generated due to additional foreknowledge of the fate it would lead to in Rebellion, and in an attempt to avert it.
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Then let's inform Madoka further about everything in Rebellion and The Wraith Arc and Tart and ALL the PMMM stuff so she can make a better Wish, and-

We've entered an endless recursion of time Madowish.

*Twitches*
 
I'm personally of the theory that in the previous timeline, the divergence point was that Kyubey potentialbombed MADOKA, not Homura.
 
UbeOne said:
Can you elaborate?
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It's just kind of an impression rather than anything I can directly pinpoint, but the entire tagline of the quest is him rejecting conventional morality for his own, and the advocacy of a proactive hero. He praises the concept of Saving others wherein PMMM totally rejects it.

That is to say, Sabrina is Superman, a foreigner who saves everyone with All-Loving Hero Messianic overtones and encourages and inspires people to help themselves (or atleast plans to), with the ultimate goal of helping every Meguca getting to a healthy place where they take after her Paragon nature to be their own champions.

Superman was pretty much very unsubtle allegory for a perfect Jewish Saint (and reappropriated into Jesus).
 
I figured this old thing deserved a slight edit:

Power Replication: Can copy the Magical Skills of other Magical Girls.

Oh, I have hopes for this one.
Pretty cool, eh?
Understatement of the century.
It's an interesting power to have in this... enviroment.
More interesting would be if you shut up.
Hey! Don't be mean!
You've got some nerve.
We're being nice!
Perhaps you could see what I see.
Not interested.
... Aaand being immune sucks.
You're actually pretty weird.
... Thanks.​

Air Skating: Sayaka can summon a magical platform, which allows her to skate on thin air, flying anywhere in style. Complimenting this, her platforms are decorated by ephemeral images that trail behind her as she moves.

Pretty cool, eh?
Yeah, actually.
It's a very pretty effect.
It is! Yuma saw knights and swords and princesses in the pretty lights.
Uh.
Well, thanks!
Mermaids, though.
Ugh...
What about mermaids?
It's just,
Ughhh...
Ughhhhh...
Ughhhhblaghhnnnnnngnoooo...
Mermaids.
You can stop now.​
 
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Kaizuki said:
If people feel like we should go ham on this issue now, I have a full-on Keikaku on standby for it.
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*Keikaku means plan.

You're probably right that we don't need to push this right now. We can wait and see how often it becomes a thing over the next couples days, first. I wouldn't mind hearing this plan of yours, however.

If talking to her doesn't work, we may need to bite the bullet and start actually looking for a psychiatrist.


On a side note: somebody upthread wondered why Mami bothers to keep going to school. (Homura presumably only goes because Madoka is there.) I think it's because Mami doesn't ascribe to the cynicism or fatalism that Kyouko or Homura might espouse. She doesn't consider magical girls to be doomed to die young, and expects to live to adulthood. Whatever income she's living on currently (inheritance, life insurance, etc.) isn't going to last forever. Eventually she's going to need a job, which means she needs to finish school.
 
I believe a Hero can save people without causing other people suffering, mainly because the first example I think of whenever I hear 'Hero' is 'Firefighter'.

So I disagree with Urobutchi, All Emiya's, and all their fans who opine that to be a 'hero' requires sacrificing some to save others.

Due to their risky jobs, yes occasionally a Firefighter or other Hero may get killed; however that is not a necessary payment to balance the scales for the lives they saved, merely a tragedy that may or may not have been prevented from occurring.
 
Redshirt Army said:
[x] Of course, and I'd be happy to help if I can. School matters, and there should always be room for the things that matter to you.
-[x] And your plan, from before I panicked about Sayaka, seems great. I don't see any issues with it.
--[x] Contemplativly: Sayaka sounded upset I woke her up early... I'll have to make it up, somehow.

[x] Hmm. Homura missed Sayaka's last training session. Should we invite her again? It's another power Sayaka can try and copy.

[x] Work on the cooking and baking.
-[x] Light and fluffy conversation.

[x] As the cooking draws to a close, move the conversation towards your GNOSIS (magic SCIENCE) plans.
-[x] So, one of my biggest limitations is my range. I wanted to test a few things to see if how various effects behave near the edge of my range, to see if I can kinda cheat - if I can make constructs that have useful effects further away. But since I need a spotter for that, I put it off until I could do it with you.
--[x] If she asks for examples: Light, or sound. If a glowing construct can still be seen beyond your range, then you should be able to make a laser beam. Or, if grief "photons" dissipate, maybe sound waves will work, since the effect is just air bumping into air? That's what the laser pointer is for - you wanted to see what would happen if the laser is real, but the batteries are grief.

[x] Also... Tiro Finale, and other highly destructive attacks- how did she practice them? Did she use witch barriers, or...? Because you had an idea or two involving railguns, but the collateral damage...
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@Redshirt Army
 
Arguing that change changes us is obvious.

Arguing that desiring change is useless is worthless.

Arguing that changing oneself is bad in the same measure said change did good is calling a fool of every person who ever stepped out of bed.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
I feel like I may have lost you there, in the third sentence.
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Eh, just ranting a little.

I don't like symmetries. Symmetric, unchanging things are nothing to me, and I find more value in assymetrical things. I don't care about the 999,999,999 protons that got annihilated, I care about the one that didn't.

And so, stating that any change to the natural state is detrimental goes against the entirely of my understanding of the universe in general and the human being in particular.

If any change harms, then civilization is nonsensical, harmful even.

In short, I think it is possible to do more good than evil by acting, and that inaction on itself can be evil.
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
I believe a Hero can save people without causing other people suffering, mainly because the first example I think of whenever I hear 'Hero' is 'Firefighter'.

So I disagree with Urobutchi, All Emiya's, and all their fans who opine that to be a 'hero' requires sacrificing some to save others.

Due to their risky jobs, yes occasionally a Firefighter or other Hero may get killed; however that is not a necessary payment to balance the scales for the lives they saved, merely a tragedy that may or may not have been prevented from occurring.
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Risk.We call people a Hero if they are willing to RISK their lifes to save others.
If they lose it in the line of duty, that makes them Martyrs.... unless they lose it in a stupid or unecessary way.
Then they are fools.
Allways remember:while a true hero should be ready to give his life if needs be, its always better to live on, if its only for the sake of continuing ones work.
Every life is precious.
Including yours.
 
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