Stupidity of the opening sequence, any given reaction, the main plot and why the villains do what they do, character motivations in general seeming more like actual brain damage than things actual human beings would do in that situation...

It's no accident that Kazumi attracts more accusations of flat characters and WTF motivation than the other spinoffs put together.

Nothing bugs me more than series where characters don't act like people. Kazumi failed that test for me early on, as well as mediocre art and a general feel of incoherence. It reads like fanfic. Bad fanfic.

I mean I couldn't get through Kazumi- I did try- but it basically comes over as a story full of Sasas where we're supposed to care. And Sasa may have worked for a short story based on fluff...But combined with Kazumi's various other flaws, it meant that the series was kind of wasted potential.

Uh...characters acting poorly isn't "Shit happens for no reason causality is a lie", Ugo. I also don't really care about characterization-based complaints because Firn is a good writer.
 
Uh...characters acting poorly isn't "Shit happens for no reason causality is a lie", Ugo. I also
don't really care about characterization-based complaints because Firn is a good writer.
That...doesn't make it better?

Well, yes. My point is that Kazumi's writers aren't so that my suspicions is that Asunaro is basically going to be a population of OCs with similar backstories?
 
I...don't see how "These characters have stupid personalities" means "This entire manga isn't canon, probably", which was kind of your original argument.
 
I...don't see how "These characters have stupid personalities" means "This entire manga isn't canon, probably", which was kind of your original argument.
I'm saying that Kazumi's the odd one out. It doesn't mesh well with the other series. That its "people" don't act like such at all is just icing on the cake.

Sadly, it is technically canon for lack of a canon policy and with the mercifully minor shoutout in TDS.

But it shouldn't be.
 
Honestly, Tart and Suzune have pretty large characterization problems.

Just accept that the Pleiades are stupid and move on.
 
Honestly, Tart and Suzune have pretty large characterization problems.

Just accept that the Pleiades are stupid and move on.
Ehhh. Suzune was fine from what I've read of it- admittedly not all- and Tart seems promising from what I know of it.

I mean I'd disagree emphatically with the idea that there are storybreaking characterization issues and plausibility in the first parts of Suzune the same way there were in Kazumi. The characters aren't masterpieces, but they're fun, distinct, and make decent sense in their own way. It leaves me wanting more, as opposed to Kazumi which left me wanting access to a trash compactor.
 
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Well that's why Kirika told us to be there for her.

Also, I suspect that's the last time we'll say Mami isn't our oujo. :p

Which was pretty unnecessary, IMO. Most of everyone here agrees that Sabrina does love her and should be there for her.

It's just a matter whether it should be or is platonic or romantic. And whether a romantic relationship is what Mami even needs or is healthy for her.
 
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Which was pretty unnecessary, IMO. Most of everyone here agrees that Sabrina does love her and should be there for her.

It's just a matter whether it should be or is plutonic or romantic. And whether a romantic relationship is what Mami even needs or is healthy for her.
Ehhh, Kirika saying it is good as a guideline. I mean saying stuff we know but need reminding of, that's fine by me.
 
Asunaro has been confirmed as not going the way it did in the manga, guys. The idea that we need to handle it now-now-now based on the manga's timeline is complete nonsense.
Can you give a cite for that, other than the Sajyous not dying?

The twins are slated to arrive in just over a week, breaking with the events as shown in the manga. (ie: the manga can no longer be considered an accurate depiction of the events in Asunaro.)
Bolded is false. The only thing that it invalidates it everything after the Sajyous show up in Asunaro.
 
Can you give a cite for that, other than the Sajyous not dying?

Bolded is false. The only thing that it invalidates it everything after the Sajyous show up in Asunaro.
"Things don't follow the events we know of from a fairly dubious story, therefore the story cannot be treated as an accurate authority on the chain of events" is false now?

Yeah, no, timeline divergences on larger scales are a thing that happens and has happened.

Point is, the manga's useless for predicting anything with certainty right now unless actively demonstrated to be accurate. For all we know, the Saints all signed up for the Girl Scouts and are seeking to recruit girls for love and justice from all over Japan. :V
 
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"Things don't follow the events we know of from a fairly dubious story, therefore the story cannot be treated as an accurate authority on the chain of events" is false now?

Yeah, no, timeline divergences on larger scales are a thing that happens and has happened.

Point is, the manga's useless for predicting anything with certainty right now unless actively demonstrated to be accurate. For all we know, the Saints all signed up for the Girl Scouts and are seeking to recruit girls for love and justice from all over Japan. :V
Pleiades Saints cookies.
How horrifying.
 
"Things don't follow the events we know of from a fairly dubious story, therefore the story cannot be treated as an accurate authority on the chain of events" is false now?

Yeah, no, timeline divergences on larger scales are a thing that happens and has happened.

Point is, the manga's useless for predicting anything with certainty right now unless actively demonstrated to be accurate. For all we know, the Saints all signed up for the Girl Scouts and are seeking to recruit girls for love and justice from all over Japan. :V
Everything exploding is confirmed to be going to occur, we know how to stop it from happening so lets stop it, it doesn't matter if it happens the same way or not, everything selfdestructing is bad even if it happens realistically rather than as in the manga.

A car going over a cliff is bad, whether you are in real life or a Michael Bay movieverse.
It's happening soon, lets go metaphorically put the brake on even if we aren't going to drive the car away from the cliff.
 
This is what there is, I think:

"Yeah," you confirm. "And one... uh, two more girls. Soujo Ayase and Luca." You form another model, of the twin-souled girl. Or possible single-bodied duo.

"Them," Oriko says, an annoyed tone in her voice. "They may come through Mitakihara in... two weeks."

You raise an eyebrow. "Hmm?" you say, interested. "Can you backtrack her, uh, them to Asunaro?" And isn't she supposed to die there? And how the hell are you supposed to refer to them, anyway?

Oriko purses her lips, regarding the model carefully, her Soul Gem beginning to bubble with Grief again. Her eyes slide shut, brow furrowing as she spreads her powers.

Eventually, she shakes her head, eyes opening. They're slightly glazed over. "Too far, too many events." She jerks her head at the models still floating in the air and immediately winces. "The Pleaides Saints are still alive."

"Even Kazusa?" you ask, the model of the girl drifting forward. Kazusa Michiru, nicknamed Kazumi.

Oriko grimaces, thinking it over. "Yes, I think."
"There's a magical girl from Europe," Oriko says. "She can affect Soul Gems. And... Asunaro. I don't recommend going there, though." She shudders slightly.

To note, Oriko seems annoyed at the mention of the Soujus. Like she knew about them before we mentioned them.

Also, Oriko might confuse Kazumi for Kazusa?

She's basically just listening in to future conversations.
 
Everything exploding is confirmed to be going to occur, we know how to stop it from happening so lets stop it, it doesn't matter if it happens the same way or not, everything selfdestructing is bad even if it happens realistically rather than as in the manga.

A car going over a cliff is bad, whether you are in real life or a Michael Bay movieverse.
It's happening soon, lets go metaphorically put the brake on even if we aren't going to drive the car away from the cliff.
We know there's a car and that it's being driven around. We don't know if the cliff is real or just a distant billboard in this case...But we know the roads in general aren't well maintained.
 
This is what there is, I think:




To note, Oriko seems annoyed at the mention of the Soujus. Like she knew about them before we mentioned them.

Also, Oriko might confuse Kazumi for Kazusa?

She's basically just listening in to future conversations.
You left out the part where Sabrina realizes, IC, that events are proceeding differently from the manga, I think?
 
Found this:
Hmm... tomorrow. Not that many days to go until Walpurgisnight, though... really, what is it that Oriko's so worried about? And speaking of Oriko, there's the Soujos, due to come through in two weeks. That's unusual in and of itself, since they're supposed to die in Asunaro. Bah, Asunaro. You can hardly decide what to do with the place, though maybe...

You left out the part where Sabrina realizes, IC, that events are proceeding differently from the manga, I think?
Anything Sabrina 'realizes IC' is just thread chatter being repeated enough, though.
 
@Firnagzen Great news! The kickstarter reached its base funding goal! So that means... SABRINA BUTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONS! The kickstarter will still be going until the 15th of next month so it's entirely possible I'll be able to make different button sizes available. So thank you so much for letting me make a Sabrina button. When the kickstarter is over and I get the machine I will make absolutely certain you get a full set of PMMM BUTTONS! *hugs* Thanks again.
 
"Things don't follow the events we know of from a fairly dubious story, therefore the story cannot be treated as an accurate authority on the chain of events" is false now?

Yeah, no, timeline divergences on larger scales are a thing that happens and has happened.

Point is, the manga's useless for predicting anything with certainty right now unless actively demonstrated to be accurate. For all we know, the Saints all signed up for the Girl Scouts and are seeking to recruit girls for love and justice from all over Japan. :V
The point is that you cant take "metaknowledge is invalid after X point" and say it means "meta knowledge is invalid, full stop", which is a logical fallacy and what you've been doing.
Maybe you're right and the entire canon timeline is invalid, but there's just not enough evidence for such, especially when used as a argument for "eh, let's put it off 'till later."
 
The point is that you cant take "metaknowledge is invalid after X point" and say it means "meta knowledge is invalid, full stop", which is a logical fallacy and what you've been doing.
Maybe you're right and the entire canon timeline is invalid, but there's just not enough evidence for such, especially when used as a argument for "eh, let's put it off 'till later."
Metaknowledge is invalid when we have reason to believe that it isn't an accurate depiction of events and we KNOW major timeline differences are a thing in PMAS.

I'm saying that kazumi magica isn't a dependable source one way or the other.
 
Metaknowledge is invalid when we have reason to believe that it isn't an accurate depiction of events and we KNOW major timeline differences are a thing in PMAS.

I'm saying that kazumi magica isn't a dependable source one way or the other.
eh, fair enough. I take a "valid until indicated otherwise" stance regarding canon, and the only direct contradiction is the Sajyou's not dying.
It irks me when people say that that means the entire timeline is irrelevant and there's no need to hurry and take care of what's probably a ticking time bomb.
 
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