Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Loops
...
[X] Muramasa
Hooray, time for temporal PTSD! If the last loop was almost!canon, then Homura's prolly still feeling guilty about being the reason Madoka has so much potential. And trying to get them together is going to be tricky, with that in the way. Sure you don't want SabrinaxHomura? It's like an inverted Oriko/Kirika relationship, with the black haired one being serious and the white haired one with the brain damage.
Hooray, time for temporal PTSD! If the last loop was almost!canon, then Homura's prolly still feeling guilty about being the reason Madoka has so much potential. And trying to get them together is going to be tricky, with that in the way. Sure you don't want SabrinaxHomura? It's like an inverted Oriko/Kirika relationship, with the black haired one being serious and the white haired one with the brain damage.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
[X] Stay with Mami and Madoka
One of the reasons I hate shipping is that it distorts the narrative to focus around one particular type of relationship, to the point of doing stuff that is objectively really kind of stupid if looked at in a light outside of "omg squee OTP."
Leave aside that it is fairly ambiguous about whether or not Madoka has any romantic attraction to Homura at all, and very much deliberately on the part of Gen Urobuchi who has no problem writing open homosexual relationships when he wants to. Leave aside that they both have serious mental issues that need to be addressed before they can pursue a health relationships. (Even though really it's like looking at Evangelion and deciding Shinji just needed to hook up with Asuka to solve all his problems.) Leave aside that they are fourteen years old, and probably just getting into romance at all, and how many first relationships weren't total trainwrecks, and that it's kind of creepy for Sabrina as the avatar of a hive-mind of grown men to be pushing them together.
No. We collectively are not the smoothest bunch of smooth operators around, to put it mildly. Persisting on trying to push Madoka and Homura together is at the very least going to wear on the patience and tightly-contained mental stability of Homura. She's been through hundreds of loops, all of which have ended in tragedy. Her distancing is a powerful form of mental self-protection, a shell against all of that pain. But for the time being it works. She is inhumanly focused and that shell can break in certain circumstances (like Kyubey telling her exactly why Kriemhild Gretchen is so powerful) but we can work with her on a very professional manner. She is utterly dependable as she is now. And of course there's no indication at all that Madoka needs to be hooked up to be happy given her web of valued friendships and her supportive family.
So bluntly there is no reason to pursue this further. Especially not now, when it risks poisoning a working relationship with our most important Meguca ally before Walpurgisnacht. If Homura and Madoka are meant to be together they can work things out themselves, probably after we actually have secured the future of the human race. That would frankly be a far healthier way for their relationship to develop, on their own terms, without a looming Apocalypse on the horizon. What right do we have to meddle in something between those two, that has no pressing threat to anything, and which may very well risk pissing off Homura to the point she becomes a lot harder to deal with?
All of this reasoning probably pointless if the QM wants the players to ship Homura/Madoka, granted.
One of the reasons I hate shipping is that it distorts the narrative to focus around one particular type of relationship, to the point of doing stuff that is objectively really kind of stupid if looked at in a light outside of "omg squee OTP."
Leave aside that it is fairly ambiguous about whether or not Madoka has any romantic attraction to Homura at all, and very much deliberately on the part of Gen Urobuchi who has no problem writing open homosexual relationships when he wants to. Leave aside that they both have serious mental issues that need to be addressed before they can pursue a health relationships. (Even though really it's like looking at Evangelion and deciding Shinji just needed to hook up with Asuka to solve all his problems.) Leave aside that they are fourteen years old, and probably just getting into romance at all, and how many first relationships weren't total trainwrecks, and that it's kind of creepy for Sabrina as the avatar of a hive-mind of grown men to be pushing them together.
No. We collectively are not the smoothest bunch of smooth operators around, to put it mildly. Persisting on trying to push Madoka and Homura together is at the very least going to wear on the patience and tightly-contained mental stability of Homura. She's been through hundreds of loops, all of which have ended in tragedy. Her distancing is a powerful form of mental self-protection, a shell against all of that pain. But for the time being it works. She is inhumanly focused and that shell can break in certain circumstances (like Kyubey telling her exactly why Kriemhild Gretchen is so powerful) but we can work with her on a very professional manner. She is utterly dependable as she is now. And of course there's no indication at all that Madoka needs to be hooked up to be happy given her web of valued friendships and her supportive family.
So bluntly there is no reason to pursue this further. Especially not now, when it risks poisoning a working relationship with our most important Meguca ally before Walpurgisnacht. If Homura and Madoka are meant to be together they can work things out themselves, probably after we actually have secured the future of the human race. That would frankly be a far healthier way for their relationship to develop, on their own terms, without a looming Apocalypse on the horizon. What right do we have to meddle in something between those two, that has no pressing threat to anything, and which may very well risk pissing off Homura to the point she becomes a lot harder to deal with?
All of this reasoning probably pointless if the QM wants the players to ship Homura/Madoka, granted.
[X] Stay with Mami and Madoka
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
While I see your point, do you feel that it would be better or worse for Homura to leave? While yes, it is ultimately her choice to leave and we ought to respect that, would it be better for her to stay regardless of shipping? Arguably, not running off would allow Homura to improve social skills, etc. Or do you think that the potential issues that may arise outweigh the potential benefits (again, ignoring shipping)? If so, why do you feel they outweigh?
Cannongerbil
I came here to nep at you
- Location
- Soviet Lunar Base
I agree that we really shouldn't push this pairing any more than we already have, but I don't think we should just leave her be. For one thing, her leaving is partially our fault, and two, leaving her alone while we hang around with Madoka and Mami is not an ideal course of action. Homura needs many things, but time alone to stew in her thoughts is not one of them.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Yeah, perhaps we did push the shipping button too hard and too fast. Still, Homura needs to connect with people once again, if not necessarily Madoka. No magical girl should feel or be isolated. That and misunderstandings are the number one cause of witchouts in the entire setting.
[x] Muramasa
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
It sounds good, but it's best if we see exactly what's bothering her first. If she's just feeling unworthy of love or something, then we need to encourage her. If she doesn't feel that way, then we need to apologize. If she knows that Madoka is not interested in her that way, then we need to give tons of support and stay with her to let her talk it out (we can telepathy an apology back to Mami).
Loops
...
It's also prolly made worse by the fact that Homura could view Sabrina as the embodiment of Madoka's wish from the previous timeline, come to think of it. Sabrina becomes a walking reminder of that Madoka. Oops.
Still, staying with Homura is the way to go here, girl needs social badly.
Still, staying with Homura is the way to go here, girl needs social badly.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
How about this?:
[x] Go after Homura
- [x] "I"m not that good at this, but, um, I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable back there."
- [x] "Unless there's something else that's bothering you?"
- [x] "We all want to spend more time with you, you know. Please come back."
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Homura was clearly embarrassed and frustrated by Sabrina and Mami egging her on. Her leaving is a reaction to those feelings. She's trying to escape a situation that was uncomfortable for her. Made so by our actions, no less. It is not uncommon at all for introverted people to slip away when faced with awkwardness. That doesn't mean she's never going to speak to Sabrina or Mami ever again. She's just collecting herself away from other people.
I think we should let her go, get herself together, and interact later without bringing this up again. You want to help Homura out on the social front? Then be her friend. And I don't mean "push her to confess to Madoka" which is something that for all kinds of reasons she doesn't want to do. I especially mean not to treat Homu/Madoka shipping like we'll get some kind of Steam Achievement for hooking them up. Be her friend. Don't reinforce the way everything seems to revolve around Madoka. If anything is going to happen on that front let it happen in its own time, offering support and encouragement if Homura wants it but otherwise remaining out of it.
I think we should let her go, get herself together, and interact later without bringing this up again. You want to help Homura out on the social front? Then be her friend. And I don't mean "push her to confess to Madoka" which is something that for all kinds of reasons she doesn't want to do. I especially mean not to treat Homu/Madoka shipping like we'll get some kind of Steam Achievement for hooking them up. Be her friend. Don't reinforce the way everything seems to revolve around Madoka. If anything is going to happen on that front let it happen in its own time, offering support and encouragement if Homura wants it but otherwise remaining out of it.
But that's only because it got dragged out for so many updates on trivial-- @Firnagzen, you are an evil genius.
Homura's entire issue is that she tends to choose never acknowledging that there's an issue or to keep shoving it down until she breaks. If we let her go she isn't going to collect herself, she's just going to go back to pushing everyone away. Isolating herself again, which throws all our work down the toilet. This isn't about shipping, it's trying to get Homura to open up, even an inch.
Going after her and most importantly talking to her and being a font for her to express her actual feelings on the matter will do far better for her in the long run than any perceived progress by Homura putting on her mask again.
Going after her and most importantly talking to her and being a font for her to express her actual feelings on the matter will do far better for her in the long run than any perceived progress by Homura putting on her mask again.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
There are better times to try to get someone to open up than right after you've made them leave abruptly in mortification at your pressing them to do something they are embarrassed or reluctant to do. Some people when they leave an awkward situation want someone else to rush after them and comfort them. Those people are generally extroverts, and in any case usually have someone a lot closer to them in mind. Let's remember that Sabrina is not, by any real standard, close to Homura. There's a false intimacy that comes from Sabrina knowing everything about her but they haven't really had the time to develop a natural relationship and Homura is prickly even in the best of circumstances.
Except we can generally assume Homura isn't running away because she's embarrassed. She's running away because she's a horribly traumatised girl who was nudged a little too fast for her liking into a situation she hasn't tried to get into in the countless months she's lived through this.
We can't leave her alone or she's going to try and shove herself back into the same routine she's tried for the last who knows how many loops. We aren't going to comfort her, we're going to actually listen to her.
We can't leave her alone or she's going to try and shove herself back into the same routine she's tried for the last who knows how many loops. We aren't going to comfort her, we're going to actually listen to her.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
...sadly, no one here is closer to her. She might have known the others longer, but they've known her for a few days and know nothing about her.
We at least understand her situation.
As for extroversion/introversion, you're right. That's not the issue here, however. A person who is psychologically tortured and isolated like Homura needs the support of other people in order to break cycles of self-damaging behavior. We can't let her keep running away from her feelings and isolating herself, because she's going to just get worse on her own. Isolating herself makes her feel safe, but it also makes it harder to reconnect later, so she continues isolating herself, which distances her more, ad infinitum. If we intervene, however, and keep her from withdrawing into herself, can help her immensely by breaking that cycle.
If it really is just awkwardness, then her leaving is fine. I somehow doubt that, however, and trauma isn't something you leave to fester when it shows up in someone's life.
We at least understand her situation.
As for extroversion/introversion, you're right. That's not the issue here, however. A person who is psychologically tortured and isolated like Homura needs the support of other people in order to break cycles of self-damaging behavior. We can't let her keep running away from her feelings and isolating herself, because she's going to just get worse on her own. Isolating herself makes her feel safe, but it also makes it harder to reconnect later, so she continues isolating herself, which distances her more, ad infinitum. If we intervene, however, and keep her from withdrawing into herself, can help her immensely by breaking that cycle.
If it really is just awkwardness, then her leaving is fine. I somehow doubt that, however, and trauma isn't something you leave to fester when it shows up in someone's life.
Cannongerbil
I came here to nep at you
- Location
- Soviet Lunar Base
And thus begins the customary multi-page debate between updates.
For my part, I mostly agree with IB. We really shouldn't be letting Homura be alone if we can help it, and, after the events within the timestop, we are pretty much her closest friend in this timeline, as sad as it may be. We are pretty much the only person who can help her get through her issues right now, and simply letting her be alone to stew in her own thoughts is not really something we should do given her levels of trauma.
Also, I think you might be making a few too many assumptions regarding Homura's internal thought processes. If Homura truly wanted to be alone, there is literally no way we could have stopped her, so the least we can do is at least attempt to offer her support.
Edit: Ninjas! Ninjas everywhere!
For my part, I mostly agree with IB. We really shouldn't be letting Homura be alone if we can help it, and, after the events within the timestop, we are pretty much her closest friend in this timeline, as sad as it may be. We are pretty much the only person who can help her get through her issues right now, and simply letting her be alone to stew in her own thoughts is not really something we should do given her levels of trauma.
Also, I think you might be making a few too many assumptions regarding Homura's internal thought processes. If Homura truly wanted to be alone, there is literally no way we could have stopped her, so the least we can do is at least attempt to offer her support.
Edit: Ninjas! Ninjas everywhere!
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