PMAS: In which it turns out there's already a social networking site for magical girls, we're just not invited.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
PMAS: In which it turns out there's already a social networking site for magical girls, we're just not invited.
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
I love that you jumped immediately to girlfriend.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
yeah and maybe she's the Cave Johnson of magical girls!!!
also... can we just set aside the whole reassure Mami/starting with words but and just HUG her first? We keep trying to reassure Mami, keep Mami safe but friendship is a two way street - lets show Mami that we value her by just getting some non-verbal comforting. It's been a long day so... modding Omur's vote:
[X] Hug Mami - take a moment, its been a long day.
[X] Tired. Too many things happening at once. I don't think I can deal with everything.
[X] How are you doing? Ask Mami about her day before moving on to our own day. Even if its less weighty there's a sort of normality to asking each other how their day has been.
[X] Explain the situation with Oriko, the enchantment practice, all of it - our trials and tribulations.
[X] Also I need to talk with all of you. I might just have made our lives more complicated. I know Homura specially won't like it, but we could be getting... immigrants.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Sabrina's already hugging Mami, thought. Or... Mami is hugging Sabrina. Or something.
Gadjo
Doka
We zone out during construction sometimes and fucking with grief while we're talking to people is a bad idea.
What? No you're totally misreading that. He meant we wouldn't get a useless powerset, no matter what we wished for. It was not "your powers can never ever cause bad things to happen" that'd be stupid.
Sereg, again: we're not going to fly into outer space and punch the incubators. Please, just focus on feathers and smaller problems. We don't need the ridiculous levels of power that you say are totally necessary.
Also, aaaaaaaaaaaaaa please please please spoiler yourself sometimes. You spaghetti quoted until your post took up the space of a small novel. You don't need to respond to every single thing someone said.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
... ..
be right back getting coffee
lots of coffee...
Sabrina needs coffee..
vote change then..
[X] Onmur
Gadjo
Doka
We're supposed to solve a problem, without just wishing to be a goddess. We don't need to outdo Madoka. I think you're thinking waaaaaay too far ahead, to the point that you miss the more important topics right now.
Social has saved the lives of several people thus far. I bet Yuma doesn't think visiting Kyoko that fateful night was pointless.
- Location
- South Africa
Yes, but we don't talk to people every second of the waking day. Also, that's why I suggested making a ring of awareness (we should also make a ring of time awareness, now that you remind me).
A powerset that causes more problems than it solves to the point that it's not safe to use is a useless powerset.
Then we disagree on the fundamental premise of the quest. This is what I understand Firn to be promising (basically). (And I see no evidence to the contrary)
Apologies. This kind of thing is difficult for me. It took me ages to untangle the code there. But I'll try bare that in mind. (I do try to respond to everything individually to avoid confusion like I sometimes receive from other posters responding and I'm not sure what they're responding to)
EDIT:
And unless we at least approach Madoka, the problem isn't solved.
I'm thinking to the end. Because I think it's necessary. I think that if we don't, we're going to get blindsided by something we should've seen coming.
No, it hasn't. All those people are dead girls walking. We've just bought them a tiny bit more time. Their lives are already effectively over. It's a tragedy and pretending otherwise is ignoring reality.
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Gadjo
Doka
What? Kyoko's accepting seeds and can hunt more safely now. We saved her life. The fact that she's still in a bad situation doesn't mean it was pointless. Would you prefer we had spent that time trying to make a lamp that can detect lies and let her get gnawed in half while Yuma watched?
But in that case it doesn't cause more problems than it solves. It just means there's an application of our power that's extremely dangerous. It's like saying a reactor is useless because it can explode if improperly maintained.
All of our problems so far have been other meguca and some unknown threat thought to have been a meguca at one point. We have to focus on not dying to our own kind before we go fucking with incubators. Also, the premise is saving the main characters of the show while making their lives better, not galactic war with the incubators. I feel we will find a smarter solution to the problem, since a planetcracking witch didn't threaten them in the slightest. Fighting them outright seems dumb.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I don't know what you two are talking about, but this is somewhere in between Tetris, Dedolere, and Kriemhild Gretchen talk.
If their lives are 'already effectively over', we might as well save them the trouble and kill them ourselves.
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
Wow, you are depressingly pessimistic. They still have their, friends and families. Well, some of the have families. The points is that just because their souls are rocks doesn't mean they're dead. They still interact with people, save people from witches, bring joy to their friends. The University group mentioned how they haven't been able to see their families because of the Sendai group's tax. Now that the tax is done they might be able to reconnect. I'd say that's a good thing. These girls aren't dead until they're soul gems shatter or they witch out and we're working on the second. So don't you say that all those Magical Girls we've helped don't matter because other wise what has been the point of any of this!
- Location
- South Africa
... My extreme bitterness, cynicism, pessimism and fatalism (as well as my personal issues with Kyouko) are warring with my desire to be nice, polite and a champion to the underprivileged as well as my desire to not be seen as an utter nutcase. Eh, probably too late. Let's just go with what I really think. Yes, if we don't make them unwitchable, it was pointless. In fact, it was actively harmful. Kyouko dying would be an improvement to the current situation, because the current situation is that horrible.
No. I'd have preferred making witches simply not exist.
No. It's saying that a reactor is useless if it's likely to explode at any time, with no warning, no matter what you do, as long as it's on. If some of our griefhax causes Feathers problems, we have no way of knowing which applications of griefhax do so. So it invalidates all of it.
Because we haven't even tried making grief accumulation impossible. If we had, we might be in the next stage o the quest already.
I saw no consensus on that. Even if it's true, no one has a clue how our current abilities can deal with it.
And creating something powerful enough to give s a chance against the Incubators will achieve that goal.
I believe it's neither. I believe it's making witching out impossible. Everywhere in the Universe. Forever. Because "System Breaker". I have no idea how the premise you suggested could be interpreted as breaking the system.
Brute force is obviously not going to win. So we need massive hax.
EDIT:
That's because I agree with Tetris and think like Kriemheld Gretchen.
Which is exactly what I'd say and believe if I didn't think that making witches impossible was possible.
Yes, I'm depressingly pessimistic. I'm someone who struggles to imagine the possibility of myself succeeding at anything. I'm basically without hope. I'm clinically depressed. etc. And there has been no point to any of this if we don't make witching out utterly impossible. (Well, other than the fun of the game and reading a good story. I can appreciate losing a game (I'm very familiar with losing) and I can appreciate tragic stories).
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Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
I agree with this. The Incubators will always be a threat unless destroyed or satisfied that entropy has been averted. The former takes something on the level of Madokami and Homucifer. The later takes coming up with a solution before the Incubators decide to fuck us over.
It's the main reason I have advocated for trying to help Kyuubey. Giving him a sustainable alternative to the Grief Seed system gives him no reason to continue with it. If at that point he still decides to be a dick to humanity then there's really no way to stop him. But that's unlikely because, given his canon characterization, it would be a diabolus ex machina, and Firn's a better writer than that.
Of course, this should not in any way take priority over what people have been calling 'social'. Why should saving the human race (or at least teenage girls) take a backseat to keeping our friends safe and happy? Because it probably wouldn't be very pleasant to have to lose the characters we have come to care for, in-universe and out.
Still, the Incubators are without a doubt an issue that Sabrina cannot sit by and do nothing about. She will try to find a solution, because otherwise the Grief cycle will just keep on going.
To end this little rant, here's my take on 'win conditions':
Some definitions:
Win condition: a condition that must be met in order for Sabrina be satisfied at the conclusion of this quest.
Constant: a win condition that is always an immediate concern. It is not something that can be put off until later because it's always present, always in flux.
Goal: a win condition that must be met at some point in the quest. A problem to be solved, but not necessarily an immediate concern.
Now the actual conditions (not necessarily listed in order of importance):
Constants
Win condition: a condition that must be met in order for Sabrina be satisfied at the conclusion of this quest.
Constant: a win condition that is always an immediate concern. It is not something that can be put off until later because it's always present, always in flux.
Goal: a win condition that must be met at some point in the quest. A problem to be solved, but not necessarily an immediate concern.
Now the actual conditions (not necessarily listed in order of importance):
Constants
- Staying alive.
- Keeping the main cast alive.
- Keeping the main cast happy/content with their lives.
- Maintaining and nurturing our friendships.
- Eliminating reliance on Grief Seeds for Magical Girls throughout the world.
- Stopping Walpurgisnacht for good.
- Stopping whatever 'Feathers' is, should it prove malevolent.
- Getting the Incubators to stop making contracts/leave Earth alone.
Marry our Oujo-sama.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
I advocate with the feeling of dont bully the incubators(dragon) without having something to defend ourselfs with, we are no Homura(lolicanloopwheneveriwant)
It would have to give him a noticeably higher payout than the current system, which I am not sure how we're going to accomplish.
Gadjo
Doka
What? We are slowly figuring out what causes problems. You are way overstating things. You're basically saying "if we can't just do whatever I want our powers are useless" and it's kind of obnoxious.
You don't fight the incubators. We can maybe find some way to fuck them over in the plot, or some other circumstantial way to beat them, but just attacking them? That's not brave, that's idiotic. It won't work.
You're dodging my point: the crazy amount of science you're advocating will sacrifice lives. Are you so sure of how right you are that you will condemn them to death?
Working with Kyubey is a terrible idea: he has no concept of loyalty and he'd betray us eventually.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
We just need to beat heat death of the universe ourselfs with the power of spiralsfriendshipgrief
Sasha
Not the Leader
- Location
- The Ever After
It doesn't necessarily need to do that. All it needs to do is be sustainable. The current system generates Grief, which the Incubators then take back home and convert into energy to combat entropy. Each Seed gives a certain amount of energy that helps maintain the energy density of the universe, but entropy doesn't stop progressing.
What we would need to do is create a perpetual motion machine of sorts. Something that constantly generates Grief or some other energy source without the need to make new contracts.
Difficult? Yes. Impossible? Maybe.
I'm not saying that it is our problem. It's just one possible avenue towards making the system not suck.
EDIT: If people have other ideas for how to stop Kyuubey from making new Magicals Girls I'm all ears (not being sarcastic here, I would genuinely appreciate other ideas), but all I've seen so far is this and variations of 'fight back against the Incubators'.
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FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
I would tend to disagree -
- That providing an alternative (even a better alternative) to the current system would necessarily lead to it being abandoned (see; Rebellion), and
- That rendering the current system (on Earth, at least) obsolete is easier than making it unworkable or uneconomical.
Any plan that relies on trusting Kyubey even the slightest bit... probably won't end well.
- Location
- South Africa
Well, my plan is to lobotomise them or render them physically incapable of leaving their own planet (or sending anything from their own planet).
Which I think we are.
His canon characterisation utterly screwed humanity over for the mere possibility of maybe getting more energy in Rebellion. Screwing people over is what he does.
Well, yes. The destruction of humanity wouldn't be very pleasant either.
@Sereg We can break the system without actually breaking it's functionality (making witches utterly impossible).
If we find a way to keep all meguca happy forever, the system is broken.
If we find a way to dewitch Seeds, the system is broken.
If we convince Madoka to make a wish to be able to revert meguca to normal girls/any of the above (with her potential, her range would most likely span the entire Earth), the system is broken.
Neither of the above affect witches directly, or are permanent solutions to every possible problem ever, but they are sufficient to *break the system*.
If we find a way to keep all meguca happy forever, the system is broken.
If we find a way to dewitch Seeds, the system is broken.
If we convince Madoka to make a wish to be able to revert meguca to normal girls/any of the above (with her potential, her range would most likely span the entire Earth), the system is broken.
Neither of the above affect witches directly, or are permanent solutions to every possible problem ever, but they are sufficient to *break the system*.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
Then tell me how are we dealing with Kyubey? Because from what i can tell, we are simply ignoring Kyubey, and letting him ploy our downfall in some unknown way.