This is flat out wrong. It's more like sticking her in a sensory deprivation tank.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
She's not going to be conscious or aware of anything, as per canon when it happened to Sayaka. So yeah, it's factually true.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Soooooo, you completely missed the bit where I explicitly said that science is the only way to fix this?
And the bit where I explicitly pointed out that almost everything about the situation is different except for the fact that Oriko is suffering?
Not under the scanner, we haven't. Which is kind of obvious. Unless we went around staring at everybody's soul gems in a secret update while I wasn't looking? We have three points of data, and she's the only time related magical girl we've seen.
We. Don't. Know.
For me, salt is expressed in a certain tone of voice. Since the internet removes the tone that the author intended much of the time, I went to the trouble of telling you that I was saying this with emotions evident in my "voice". Angry ones.
You're evidently assuming the cause HAS to be Feathers and only feathers that we could definitely sciencebullshit an answer up. I don't think either of those are safe assumptions.
1. Social first then science as a back-up if that doesn't work. Science isn't reliable enough and might not fix the possible root cause for me to want it as a Plan A.
2. Nope. The issues with Oriko are clearly still there, therefore trying this might fix them if they're helping cause the problems with her magic, which given her wish is a definitely possibility.
Oriko wasn't dying before. It's safe to assume her soul gem wasn't silly string and unless you feel like looping there's no way to be sure, but honestly it doesn't change that Oriko has a problem that needs fixing. Social, then science if that doesn't work, and then emergency measures.
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PhantomFractions
I can (not) type fast enough
- Location
- Australia
You have it all wrong - we gave Kyouko junk food - think of all the empty calories and the overload of sugar! Obesity, Diabetes, Cavities and Halitosis - Sabrina plays the long game!
Plus, the chairs are actually three-legged stools with one leg deliberately shortened so you just can't get the damn thing to settle and so it rocks back and forth every time you shift your weight even slightly, MUHAHAHAHA!
Mami gets those joke flowers that squirt you in the face - not every plan can be Xanatos approved.
This whole anti-science mindset that you have is starting to worry me, Ugs.
I agree that there is a time and place for LOL!420SCIENCEIT! but I'm not sure that you are properly making the distinction between 'LOLSCIENCE' and legitimate experimentation using the scientific method to achieve a stated goal - i.e. 'real science'.
The stated goal was to make the anti-QB-eavesdropping sphere more comfortable for those inside it - specifically giving it some airflow.
The necessity of the sphere (even without the experimental additions) is clear: We are discussing events from a different loop outside of a timestop -> If QB overhears he can make the loop-MadoPotential link -> Homu gets a YOUFUCKEDUP! bomb.
The additions would be useful outside of this situation in the event we need to anti-Eavesdrop sphere with a normal (e.g. Maodka) - lack of fresh air would not be fun for a normal, even fatal should the airtight sphere not be dispelled and reconstructed periodically.
Does it need to happen right this second? I dunno. As you say - original version of sphere works and Meguca don't care about a low-Oxygen environment.
But, would it slow us down? Not significantly - we'd lose less than a minute fiddling with the grief properties and then move on. Amounting to less than a paragraph that you could skip if it really upset you that much.
You can see how ^that^ is well reasoned and thought out - not 'hey lets make a Godzilla shooting deathray during tense negotiations fortehLAWLS'.
By all means, oppose and propose alternatives - you are correct that a desire to experiment shouldn't interfere with important things - but by that same token: if there is motivation, time, and opportunity to do so then unobtrusive and/or brief experiments can and should occur.
TL;DR: I get it - I do - time and place and 'is this actually necessary or just screwing about'.
Just make sure that the divide is clear in your mind between 'science' and 'SCIENCE!!1!!!1!!' - one of these is useful, the other is recreational at best, and the two should not be confused.
After all, how do you think we'll be able to de-witch or provide an alternative cleansing method without trying new things and seeing what works and what doesn't (i.e. experimentation - a.k.a (lowercase) real 'science'.)
[/rant]
Not going to ask that the following condition be included in this round of voting - since we haven't yet seen how they react to our infodump - but this should definitely be appended when we're done explaining and Oriko is undergoing self-reflection:
[soon] While Oriko is mulling everything over, work with Kirika to see if she can fine tune her antimagic to target the magical link between the soul gem and the body - specifically the part of the link that carries pain.
as I maintain that having Kirika take over as the pain blocker frees us up to do other things today and is a superior option to Gem D/C as Oriko remains functional and can continue to make progress towards her epiphany or any other solution to her current problem.
D/C should be a last resort to spare Oriko pain if and only if they both agree to it - and even then Kirika could simply D/C Oriko and then keep Oriko's Gem with her and simply not reconnect it to the body - no need for the Gem/s to go with us when we leave.
[/time to stop posting, PF] [/you'll be late to work] [/I GO!!]
I'm completely sick of pointless science that eats updates and sabotages our goals rather than helps advance them. It's a personal pet peeve- except when we break something we shouldn't because we couldn't keep away from the shiny- but I'm advocating it all the same.
In and of itself, the sphere improvements aren't a huge problem other than sticking out like a sore thumb from the rest of the vote but it's opening the gateway to RANDOM LOLSCIENCE EVERY UPDATE THIS IS CLEARLY HELPFUL. Again. Which I really think the quest would be better without.
I'd never advocate avoiding science that helps dewitching or cleansing. Just as long as it has a clear goal and actually does that.
Last resort yes but if it's DC or fail in our other responsibilities, DC needs to happen. Kirika's antimagic...might be too costly to do that plan, but worth a try I guess?
In and of itself, the sphere improvements aren't a huge problem other than sticking out like a sore thumb from the rest of the vote but it's opening the gateway to RANDOM LOLSCIENCE EVERY UPDATE THIS IS CLEARLY HELPFUL. Again. Which I really think the quest would be better without.
I'd never advocate avoiding science that helps dewitching or cleansing. Just as long as it has a clear goal and actually does that.
Last resort yes but if it's DC or fail in our other responsibilities, DC needs to happen. Kirika's antimagic...might be too costly to do that plan, but worth a try I guess?
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[X] Muramasa
Dewitching and cleansing are not the only goals Sabrina has, and monofocusing all power development in that direction is a poor idea, especially when we don't know what advances in other areas may be helpful.
For instance, if the "Incubator DRM" theory is true, then finding conceptual ways to avoid their interference becomes critical to dewitching.
In particular, not determining what exactly our powers can do feels like being told to fix a leaky sink and refusing to "waste time" seeing what tools are in the toolbox you've been given.
Dewitching and cleansing are not the only goals Sabrina has, and monofocusing all power development in that direction is a poor idea, especially when we don't know what advances in other areas may be helpful.
For instance, if the "Incubator DRM" theory is true, then finding conceptual ways to avoid their interference becomes critical to dewitching.
In particular, not determining what exactly our powers can do feels like being told to fix a leaky sink and refusing to "waste time" seeing what tools are in the toolbox you've been given.
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Monofocusing all power development there is only sensible given that we have limited time and energy and we've neglected much more relevant problems for whatever science comes to mind in the past. Priotities. We're bad at them.
We decided to do random science for what amounted to giggles (seriously, barriers? We don't need Barriers.) and Sayaka paid the price. Let's not repeat that mistake.
If we have proven Kyubey-caused issues with dewitching then and only then does trying to get around incubator interference become relevant. Until then it's largely wasting time and effort.
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Omegastar
fear the {CENSORED}.
without science we will never reverse the witching progress. we need science.
Gee, it's almost as though I'm advocating doing the science that matters (dewitching and gem cleansing) and not obsessively chasing after any random shiny that comes to mind.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The way Evil!Sabrina deals with Mami is by using the truth to destroy her friendship with Kyuubey, leaving her vulnerable to emotional manipulation, and taking Kyuubey's place as Mami's sole confidant and friend.
Mami obviously knows the depths of evil and cruelty Evil!Sabrina frequents, but due to her crushing loneliness, she has no choice but to accept Evil!Sabrina's blatantly false offers of companionship and friendship, even knowing her fragile ego now lies in another's devious hands, and that Evil!Sabrina could break her as easily as she could step out the door and never come back.
And Evil!Sabrina relishes that. She knows Mami knows her plot. She knows Mami knows that she knows.
Evil!Sabrina doesn't actually have any intention of ever leaving Mami. Oh, no, why leave the best fun she ever had? Where else would she get to taste the deliciously slow dripping agony of fear? The potential abandonement accompanying every little movement, present in every moment of silence, resonating with every word?
There's no place more filled with fear and dread than Mami's house. Evil!Sabrina arrived to stay.
Years into the future, no commitment was set, only empty reassurances console Mami that she won't be alone the next day, day after day... At some point she realized nobody else than herself and Evil!Sabrina ever stepped into her house anymore.
It seemed so natural at first; could she blame anybody who didn't want to spend any one second longer than absolutely necessary in the presence of that wretched, immoral Evil!Sabrina?
And consequently, in her own presence? Who would go near her when she couldn't stay away from that malignant, wicked Evil!Sabrina?
But Evil!Sabrina remained. That was all Mami needed as long as things could stay that way.
Even if nobody else visited.
Eeven if she couldn't remember the world outside her apartment anymore.
Even if she didn't understand why she couldn't quite recognize the large World Map hung over the wall of the Living Room, or the lines of flashing lights dancing their way through the floor at straight angles, or the microwave with the weird buttons she couldn't read.
Even if the tea tasted weird.
Even if she couldn't pick up a book anymore, for she couldn't read the strange script that filled them.
Even if... she started to understand it, at some point.
Even if she hand't ever studied, or even attempted to decipher these weird symbols, the fact that she was surrounded by them for so long must mean it's normal for her to be able to read them, right?
Everything makes sense, after a while. The humming machines filling the guest bedroom, the strange animals and moving objects and weird human-like things that seem to be the only things going in and out her home, the strange smokes emanating from under the door of the second guest bedroom, which she was surprised to find she had...
Really, she shouldn't complain, as long as Sabrina didn't decide to leave, was it so bad that she had trouble navigating her home sometimes? If the way from her bed to the kitchen felt like a labyrinth at times, with hallways that stretched too long, and turns and corners that seemed out of place,what did it matter? She was not alone.
The best day was when Sabrina looked at her, but not in that despicable, manipulating way she always did. Instead she looked at her like for the first time, smiled, and uttered the most beautiful words:
"Success."
Everything made sense then.
The way space shifted and danced, the animals, the helpful appliances that worked on their own...
Sabrina wouldn't leave. Mami wouldn't leave her.
Mami understood, and the little not so creepy people that wandered the maze that was her home assured her, as they never had before, that she was here to stay.
Here, in Sabrina's World. Her home.
Mami obviously knows the depths of evil and cruelty Evil!Sabrina frequents, but due to her crushing loneliness, she has no choice but to accept Evil!Sabrina's blatantly false offers of companionship and friendship, even knowing her fragile ego now lies in another's devious hands, and that Evil!Sabrina could break her as easily as she could step out the door and never come back.
And Evil!Sabrina relishes that. She knows Mami knows her plot. She knows Mami knows that she knows.
Evil!Sabrina doesn't actually have any intention of ever leaving Mami. Oh, no, why leave the best fun she ever had? Where else would she get to taste the deliciously slow dripping agony of fear? The potential abandonement accompanying every little movement, present in every moment of silence, resonating with every word?
There's no place more filled with fear and dread than Mami's house. Evil!Sabrina arrived to stay.
Years into the future, no commitment was set, only empty reassurances console Mami that she won't be alone the next day, day after day... At some point she realized nobody else than herself and Evil!Sabrina ever stepped into her house anymore.
It seemed so natural at first; could she blame anybody who didn't want to spend any one second longer than absolutely necessary in the presence of that wretched, immoral Evil!Sabrina?
And consequently, in her own presence? Who would go near her when she couldn't stay away from that malignant, wicked Evil!Sabrina?
But Evil!Sabrina remained. That was all Mami needed as long as things could stay that way.
Even if nobody else visited.
Eeven if she couldn't remember the world outside her apartment anymore.
Even if she didn't understand why she couldn't quite recognize the large World Map hung over the wall of the Living Room, or the lines of flashing lights dancing their way through the floor at straight angles, or the microwave with the weird buttons she couldn't read.
Even if the tea tasted weird.
Even if she couldn't pick up a book anymore, for she couldn't read the strange script that filled them.
Even if... she started to understand it, at some point.
Even if she hand't ever studied, or even attempted to decipher these weird symbols, the fact that she was surrounded by them for so long must mean it's normal for her to be able to read them, right?
Everything makes sense, after a while. The humming machines filling the guest bedroom, the strange animals and moving objects and weird human-like things that seem to be the only things going in and out her home, the strange smokes emanating from under the door of the second guest bedroom, which she was surprised to find she had...
Really, she shouldn't complain, as long as Sabrina didn't decide to leave, was it so bad that she had trouble navigating her home sometimes? If the way from her bed to the kitchen felt like a labyrinth at times, with hallways that stretched too long, and turns and corners that seemed out of place,what did it matter? She was not alone.
The best day was when Sabrina looked at her, but not in that despicable, manipulating way she always did. Instead she looked at her like for the first time, smiled, and uttered the most beautiful words:
"Success."
Everything made sense then.
The way space shifted and danced, the animals, the helpful appliances that worked on their own...
Sabrina wouldn't leave. Mami wouldn't leave her.
Mami understood, and the little not so creepy people that wandered the maze that was her home assured her, as they never had before, that she was here to stay.
Here, in Sabrina's World. Her home.
TJSomething
That's... that's impossible!
I'm not convinced we have enough information to do more than LOLSCIENCE in the vague direction of dewitching. I personally think we need more basic research on souls, soul gems, grief seeds, witches, magic, and cloning.
Can grief produce mundane energy? Can this energy be turned into mundane matter? Is this process reversible? Is grief consumed by this? Is magic consumed by this? Can we arrange matter to duplicate existing matter? Can we clone mice? Can we clone brainless mice? How much grief/magic would we need to make an entire human body, sans brain? How do grief and magic interact? Is grief atomic? Is magic atomic? Do ordinary people or witches have magic? Do muggles, soul gems, or grief seeds exhibit force on grief? What are the differences and similarities between soul gems, grief seeds, witches, and ordinary people? Can we attach a soul gem to a cloned/different/dead body? Does this cause memory loss or psychic contamination? Could we do the same with a grief seed?
I expect Muramasa's science to save us time on average, with about a 1/4 chance of taking 5 seconds and a 3/4 chance of spending 5 seconds plus a minute or two of going to the roof. From a social point of view, wearing a ring would be more pleasant for people we are talking to than an oppressive globe of darkness, making them more amenable generally being nice.
[X] Muramasa
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Can we order Grief to become more Grief? Can an unhached Witch out-think a chess master? Do AI dream of electric sheep? What's the question that leads to 42? Is there enough dakka in the universe? Which one was first: The egg or the chiken? The Seed, or the Witch? Can we hijack a Kyuubey body to listen in on the Incubators' radio channels? What do the Incubators do for fun, besides killing little girls?
(By 'more random questions', I mean 'more random' questions, not more 'random questions')
(By 'more random questions', I mean 'more random' questions, not more 'random questions')
Sorry, I'm not cute.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Here you go. Spiders are always food for de-stressing.
Varying, anywhere from a couple of minutes to maybe half an hour for the sonic shower.
Thanks.
Three legged chairs are always stable. It's four legged ones you want for rocking.
Oh, and...
@Ugolino
Cool it.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
A-hem...
*Holds up Seed*
No discrimination, yes?
You eat spiders.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So... the kitty is Sabrina, and the ducks are the traumatized girls that need her help?
There we go, cute.
Also sums up the nature of our problems as well.
"I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PAWS FOR ALL OF YOU!"
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Muramasa
- Location
- Maybe?
You know, if Oriko is still the villain and her true desire is different in this timeline, it'll set Firnagzen up for an amazing ironic echo with Homura reminding us that "This isn't the Oriko you know."