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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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CornyBones said:
So ignoring the insult is better than addressing it?

I agree about us not sharing the Magical stuff until further into the conversation. We need to get deeper into the dialogue before we can start sharing.
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Honestly, I know a lot of people here do care, but I really, really don't.

The only way I care about the insult, is that Mami might feel bad about it, so I want Sabrina to comfort her a little. A smile, a hand on her shoulder. We can address this better, later, after we're back home.
 
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[X] SynchronizedWritersBlock

while too apologetic, If we don't let ono speak her mind, I don't think she will "let" us speak ours.
 
Onmur said:
Honestly, I know a lot of people here do care, but I really, really don't.
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Well sometimes some concessions should be made....maybe some minor banter instead of the indignant defensiveness.

-Sass Ono about your 'cronies'
-Support Mami
-"You broke your clock" attempt to repair. Talk while doing so.
-Explain why you broke into her house
-refuse to leave until Magical Girl subject is covered.
-stress our commitment to making sure she stays alive

Better?

Kinda like the clock thing a lot. I know there's a danger about making Ono feel ignored, but the gesture could mean more as we talk to her.

Talking about trying to help, while physically trying to help. There's a powerful harmony there I think.

Anyway, do we have other things we want to add or remove? Or should I start trying to write out a vote with these points?
 
chocolote12 said:
Now you know how Homura feels about Sayaka. This may not be very useful power-wise, but it'll be great for her moral. Think about it; Homura, every loop, has to deal with a Sayaka so stupid that she feels like she doesn't need grief seeds. that's how suicidal she is when she's all Meguca'd up, usually. Ono is -worse- than Normal!Sayaka. If we can pull off a win here, Homura will gain that much more determination that she can, indeed, save everybody. All we've got to pay for that incredible bit of happiness is a successful social-ing with Ono. And while Ono sucks, it could be worse. I mean, (Tempting Firn here, really hard) she could actually be dangerous enough that we couldn't tie her down!
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Okay, while I agree with the basic idea of this, my Sayaka complex is acting up. Sayaka was fully aware she needed grief seeds. She didn't care. Sayaka would rather starve to death than eat food offered by her enemy. It isn't because she thinks she doesn't need the food. It's because she thinks that accepting help from her enemies would be worse than dying horribly.

SWB's vote has improved, but I'm not ready to commit to it if we have more time.

CornyBones said:
I'm tempted to put my charms to trying out my own vote. Feel something is missing from these ones....hmm.

Lemme try and break in down to bullet points, tell me if I'm honing in.

-Defend friends from Ono's insult
-move past it quickly.
-Explain why you broke into her house
-refuse to leave until Magical Girl subject is covered.
-stress our commitment to making sure she stays alive

What else do we want to do in this vote?
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Agreed with all that. I also want this:

- Allow Ono to speak whenever she interrupts and listen to her

- Apologise for having to do this in such an unpleasant manner (this would be something we're sorry for)

- Don't belittle or insult her

- Direct blame for her problems away from both ourselves and herself and onto Kyuubey

- Throw doubt onto Kyuubey

- Explain that we are acting in her own best interests, despite what she thinks

- Make her feel valued

- Explain that every magical girl has problems. She wouldn't be devoid of them if she was stronger

- Explain that she's under our protection. That we won't let her die.

- Explain that most magical girl kill each other for grief seeds

- Explain that grief is life-threatening and self-reinforcing.

- Explain that she needs her Soul Gem to survive

- Explain that she doesn't owe us labour, money, gifts or time in battle.

- Tell her that we're wiling to listen to her problems and help where possible.

- Tell her that if she wants to learn away from her home, that's fine

- - If she does, to offer her a meal
 
Gadjo said:
It's not about whether she puts stock in it. A friend responding to an insult meant for you is a good thing. It matters whether we reply.
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Maybe any other time.

We can clarify any potential misunderstandings later, while we again thank Mami and Homura for putting up with our... this.

CornyBones said:
Well sometimes some concessions should be made....maybe some minor banter instead of the indignant defensiveness.

-Sass Ono about your 'cronies'
-Support Mami
-"You broke your clock" attempt to repair. Talk while doing so.
-Explain why you broke into her house
-refuse to leave until Magical Girl subject is covered.
-stress our commitment to making sure she stays alive

Better?

Kinda like the clock thing a lot. I know there's a danger about making Ono feel ignored, but the gesture could mean more as we talk to her.

Talking about trying to help, while physically trying to help. There's a powerful harmony there I think.

Anyway, do we have other things we want to add or remove? Or should I start trying to write out a vote with these points?
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Actually, I like some of your ideas. We can answer Ono's remark with one of our own.

"Maybe you don't know what friends are, I don't blame you for that."
 
I like the idea of repairing her clock.

Anyway, the reason I want to respond to the insult is to make Mami and Homura feel better. I'm not saying they feel insulted. I'm saying they might be touched by Sabrina's defense of them.
 
Sereg said:
I like the idea of repairing her clock.

Anyway, the reason I want to respond to the insult is to make Mami and Homura feel better. I'm not saying they feel insulted. I'm saying they might be touched by Sabrina's defense of them.
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They know it's bullshit.

Like it or not, this is Ono time. Mami and Homura can be comforted later.
 
Onmur said:
Maybe any other time.

We can clarify any potential misunderstandings later, while we again thank Mami and Homura for putting up with our... this.


Actually, I like some of your ideas. We can answer Ono's remark with one of our own.

"Maybe you don't know what friends are, I don't blame you for that."
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Hmm, "You can't even recognize a Sister Squad? Horrible"

Not sure we need specific phrasing. Leaving it ambiguous lets Firn think up his own zinger, and we really just want to counter her claim.

What happened to that Lamp she threw at us?
 
CornyBones said:
Hmm, "You can't even recognize a Sister Squad? Horrible"

Not sure we need specific phrasing. Leaving it ambiguous lets Firn think up his own zinger, and we really just want to counter her claim.

What happened to that Lamp she threw at us?
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She didn't throw it, I think. She transformed and used her staff, instead.
 
Gadjo said:
It's not about whether she puts stock in it. A friend responding to an insult meant for you is a good thing. It matters whether we reply.
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If the point is to support our friends, there is zero need and in fact a lot of reasons not to respond with significant indignation.

The range of responses can be vague or specific, but don't have to engage Ono's provocation. Anything from "They're here because they're good people." to "They're here because they care about your well-being" to a simple "Cronies? *shakes head* *moves on*"

What I see under the pretenses of defending our friends is just getting provoked and drawn into being indignant or argumentative back at Ono.
 
Sereg said:
- Allow Ono to speak whenever she interrupts and listen to her

- Apologise for having to do this in such an unpleasant manner (this would be something we're sorry for)

- Don't belittle or insult her

- Direct blame for her problems away from both ourselves and herself and onto Kyuubey

- Throw doubt onto Kyuubey

- Explain that we are acting in her own best interests, despite what she thinks

- Make her feel valued

- Explain that every magical girl has problems. She wouldn't be devoid of them if she was stronger

- Explain that she's under our protection. That we won't let her die.

- Explain that most magical girl kill each other for grief seeds

- Explain that grief is life-threatening and self-reinforcing.

- Explain that she needs her Soul Gem to survive

- Explain that she doesn't owe us labour, money, gifts or time in battle.

- Tell her that we're wiling to listen to her problems and help where possible.

- Tell her that if she wants to learn away from her home, that's fine

- - If she does, to offer her a meal
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That's a good list, buuuuut I think we're diving into details too quickly with all those.

This vote is just to carry the conversation along, we can get to loveburst Sabrina when the initial fires have cooled.

The ones I feel are the strongest for this vote though:

- Allow Ono to speak whenever she interrupts and listen to her

- Apologise for having to do this in such an unpleasant manner (this would be something we're sorry for)

- Explain that she's under our protection. That we won't let her die.

- Explain that every magical girl has problems. She wouldn't be devoid of them if she was stronger

- Don't belittle or insult her
 
CornyBones said:
I think I remember a couple pages of debate about that.

I suppose it's a bit unnecessary, considering what we're talking about and where we at in-dialogue. But I do like the image of Sabrina saying it. Saying it and meaning it.

Cause that phrase is kind of central to her...
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We can really mean it.

For Ono, the more we mean it, the worse it is, because it means for her, that she needs protection, that she's weak and needs somebody to tell her what to do.
 
Onmur said:
They know it's bullshit.

Like it or not, this is Ono time. Mami and Homura can be comforted later.
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They do. That's not the point. This argument is like saying, "Why do I have to say that I love her? She knows that already."

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
If the point is to support our friends, there is zero need and in fact a lot of reasons not to respond with significant indignation.

The range of responses can be vague or specific, but don't have to engage Ono's provocation. Anything from "They're here because they're good people." to "They're here because they care about your well-being" to a simple "Cronies? *shakes head* *moves on*"

What I see under the pretenses of defending our friends is just getting provoked and drawn into being indignant or argumentative back at Ono.
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Oh, I agree. Which is why I want it said as a simple statement of fact. Nothing more. I don't want to get indignant. The point isn't to get angry. It's to correct a mistake she made. We're here as a teacher, after all.

Onmur said:
These are kind of contradictory for her. She's at a stage where she doesn't want others to tell her what to do.
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We aren't telling her what to do. We're telling her what we're going to do. ie. I am going to protect you and stop you from dying.

EDIT:^ Hence the explanation that every magical girl has problems, that being stronger wouldn't fix that and that the reason she needs help is due to lack of education, rather than anything inherent to her. Also, that the reason for her lack f education is Kyuubey, rather than herself.
 
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Onmur said:
These are kind of contradictory for her. She's at a stage where she doesn't want others to tell her what to do.
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Yeah, but we did tell her that. Beyond general warm fuzzies - and I don't know about everyone else, but I'm feeling neither warm nor fuzzy right now - that's why we're here; we have a promise to keep. The temptation is to be honest, and -

[] Laugh in her face.
[] Does it look like I'm having a good time over here? Do you think we broke in for the good of our health? Are you under the impression that we have nothing better to do with our time than deal with you?
[] Perhaps it slipped your attention, but you joined us. You're under our protection. In case all the incredibly subtle hints escaped your notice, you'll be lucky to live through the next day without help. We are obliged to help, welcome or not. Much as I would love to be elsewhere, I'm stuck here until certain facts of life finally leak through your skull. How difficult do you want to make this?
 
This is what the emphasis is looking like so far. It's starting to look nice and full to me. Anytime else that'd be urgent in this opening stage of dialogue?

-Sass Ono about your 'cronies'
--But don't belittle or insult her. Banter
-"You broke your clock" attempt to repair. Talk while doing so.

-Support Mami's interjections.
- Allow Ono to speak whenever she interrupts and listen to her

-Explain why you broke into her house
- Apologise for having to do this in such an unpleasant manner
-refuse to leave until Magical Girl subject is covered.

If appropriate, and it seems like she's be receptive, emphasis these sentiments:

- Explain that every magical girl has problems. She wouldn't be devoid of them if she was stronger
- Explain that she's under our protection. That we won't let her die.
 
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I think that's a pretty good skeleton. I'm happier with that than any of the current votes. I'd prefer the "cronies" part to merely be treated as a factual correction rather than sass, but as long as it's light, it should be fine.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Mami already responded to the insult. She didn't like what was said about Sabrina. That in itself says she doesn't put any stock in it at all.
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So, we're not even going to bother denying it? Not even calmly? Just let Megane keep thinking those things about us without even saying anything.

Although, I really don't like Ugolino's phrasing of it. I kind of feel like it would make us have an outburst like we did back in Sendai, which probably won't help matters.

Muramasa said:
Gonna be honest. I kinda dislike the character we're playing as at the moment.
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.... got to agree with that. The increasingly poisonous feelings in the thread aren't helping matters.
 
Sabrina has been more ... angry than I like her recently. That's one of the reasons I really don't want an aggressive vote right now. And so, yeah, I don't like Ugo's phrasing of it either even if I acknowledge that he's right that it would be nice to correct that. It's why I want it treated as a mere factual error in need of correction rather than something to feel slighted over.

Really, we shouldn't be feeling slighted or angry at all. Ono's position is pretty sympathetic. She's abrasive, yeah, but so's Kyouko. So's Sakura. So what? Are we really going to be so fragile that some abrasiveness gets us to question our mission? We want to make every meguca smile, remember?
 
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