Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Cannongerbil
I came here to nep at you
- Location
- Soviet Lunar Base
50 meters is still within the Manipulation radius. Sabrina won't drop dead just yet. I assume that handing our soul gem to Homura is to prevent Oriko from killing us with a surprise attack, and since Homura still has Oriko's soul gem, it would also prevent her from making a break for it.
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FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
Because, in no particular order,...Why, Askari?
- She might well actually be working off info that'd send Homura off the deep end. No shortage of it.
- Initially accommodating her wishes strengthens our bargaining position, if she's interested in bargaining.
- I trust Homu's ability to rig this so she can't pull a fast one more than ours, and if she's timestopped and we're not, the preparations will be opaque.
- If she says she could, right now, Break Everything, I'm inclined to believe her. Removing our soul gem and allies from the immediate vicinity mitigates most of the means she could do that. (Including intentionally Witching,
- Letting Mami know that we're having a talk with Oriko, alone, for our own reasons, is pretty much costless, and damages trust less than not telling her anything until afterwards, when we might need to share at least some of our findings.
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We'd presumably take her gem if we were going to have a talk with her.
Okay, good point. I'm all for this plan then, just as soon as we try to get a bit more information out of her/work to try and weaken her resolve.
The way I'm reading it is that it's a cover story for Mami to a) know what's happening, to an extent, and b) so that she feels useful, and c) divert her from the site of massive Oriko exsanguination[1].
[1]I love this word. It is a good word.
I think Homura probably needs and deserves our trust at this point. She seems to be increasingly losing that tiny spark of trust in Sabrina that she had.
Why are people caving to Oriko's demands when you were just trying to say no more games?
Why are people caving to Oriko's demands when you were just trying to say no more games?
Muramasa
Best Girl
Tear down here and now even in the timestop?
That has to be an explosive. I think Oriko has rigged herself to blow.
I'm thinking it involves revealing Sabrina's true 'nature', maybe something that will turn back all that trust building excercises we just did with Homura into something really horrible.
I realize that may be getting into PtV levels of bullshit. But still, precog.
That relies on Homura believing Oriko.
Homura just wanted to kill Oriko and be done with it, why would she believe what Oriko has to say?
NormalSightMan
Free Range Incubator
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was a reading comprehension fail on my part. I forgot Homura had her gem. Firn's attributing a better idea to me than I came up with, though, in that taking up sniper positions is a good way to conceal the lichbomb from Mami (and also to make her feel useful).
That said, Askari has a pretty good idea himself. Hmm.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
[x] Ugolino.
Also, why can't we just talk to Oriko in telepathy if she doesn't want Homura to hear? I know Kyubey is a radio for Potentials but I thought Magical Girls had their own legit telepathy.
Also, why can't we just talk to Oriko in telepathy if she doesn't want Homura to hear? I know Kyubey is a radio for Potentials but I thought Magical Girls had their own legit telepathy.
RazorBlaxe
Just another transient being
- Location
- Earth
...Hmm. Now I can see why everyone hates precog. Especially when they're not on your side. I mean really, in that just one sentence ("I know stuff, let's talk privately") she has more or less got us dancing in her palm. I mean, think about it. In just one conversation we're thinking whether or not we need to listen to her. So far most people are leaning on listening.
Now before you give me all the reasons why we should listen like what Askari put let me give you why we shouldn't and just better off simply killing her, consequences with Mami be damned.
-It's a trap, she's a precog. Us finding her might not be part of the plan, but we have given her time. Time enough for her precog to work and figure shit out.
-She really is delusional and nothing she says will be useful/new for us.
-Listening to Oriko will probably cause us to lose some goodwill from Homura.
-Listening to Oriko a lot have the possibility of making Homura our enemy. (just throwing this out there)
-She really does know something but finding out what she knows will make things worse. For everyone.
-She has already gone off the deep end and is under the delusion that she can fix things when in truth everything she does makes things worse.
Anyway, I'm just being the devil advocates here. We went to all the trouble to finding her and stopping her. Finding her reason will be nice but unnecessary. The fact that she's trying to negotiate instead of outright telling us what we want means she still have an Ace up her sleeve. Letting her play it might be bad for us. Or even the world. After all, while Oriko did claim to be working for the good of the world, it does not mean she is doing good for the world. Remember, for all her precog and politician's daughter she is still just a Meguca, a teenage girl like us. Precog does not mean she knows how to bring along the best future for everyone.
Also, wild theory time! The way she was talking make me thinks she's trying to break the Facade. You know, go public about the whole existence of Meguca and Witches and Incubators. Let the whole world know. I think that's why she's trying to get out of timestop. That way she can signal/contact her allies that she hired (following this theory it might be IT/Multimedia specialist, not PMC) to go ahead with the plan.
Sorry for wall of text. Just giving my opinion. I'm most likely wrong though. :/
EDIT : Forgot to mention, either way however things go I vote
EDIT 2: Forgot to remove vote due to vote change.
[] Do not for any reason or other go out of timestop.
Going out of timestop gives Oriko even more options. As long as she's in there with us she's more or less trapped. With us and Murderface.
Now before you give me all the reasons why we should listen like what Askari put let me give you why we shouldn't and just better off simply killing her, consequences with Mami be damned.
-It's a trap, she's a precog. Us finding her might not be part of the plan, but we have given her time. Time enough for her precog to work and figure shit out.
-She really is delusional and nothing she says will be useful/new for us.
-Listening to Oriko will probably cause us to lose some goodwill from Homura.
-Listening to Oriko a lot have the possibility of making Homura our enemy. (just throwing this out there)
-She really does know something but finding out what she knows will make things worse. For everyone.
-She has already gone off the deep end and is under the delusion that she can fix things when in truth everything she does makes things worse.
Anyway, I'm just being the devil advocates here. We went to all the trouble to finding her and stopping her. Finding her reason will be nice but unnecessary. The fact that she's trying to negotiate instead of outright telling us what we want means she still have an Ace up her sleeve. Letting her play it might be bad for us. Or even the world. After all, while Oriko did claim to be working for the good of the world, it does not mean she is doing good for the world. Remember, for all her precog and politician's daughter she is still just a Meguca, a teenage girl like us. Precog does not mean she knows how to bring along the best future for everyone.
Also, wild theory time! The way she was talking make me thinks she's trying to break the Facade. You know, go public about the whole existence of Meguca and Witches and Incubators. Let the whole world know. I think that's why she's trying to get out of timestop. That way she can signal/contact her allies that she hired (following this theory it might be IT/Multimedia specialist, not PMC) to go ahead with the plan.
Sorry for wall of text. Just giving my opinion. I'm most likely wrong though. :/
EDIT : Forgot to mention, either way however things go I vote
EDIT 2: Forgot to remove vote due to vote change.
[] Do not for any reason or other go out of timestop.
Going out of timestop gives Oriko even more options. As long as she's in there with us she's more or less trapped. With us and Murderface.
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Yeah, it's too soon to just give in right now. It's not like we're in any rush.
[X] Continue Talking
- [X] Here, with Homura
[X] And I could have just left you to die when Homura blew half your face off and yet here we are. If I just stood aside right now, do you think she would hesitate? You looked fast earlier, but your not faster than a bullet.
- [X] We can't talk alone if that's what you're getting at. Homura really wants you dead, and just giving me the chance to talk you is taking up more faith and trust than what she usually possesses. Plus, that would mean getting out of the timestop where Kyubey can easily listen in on us.
-- [X] You say that you didn't want Sayaka dead, but there were other people in that building. Did you ever stop to think that fire could have killed or injured a whole bunch of innocent people?
-- [X] Then there was that little incident where Sayaka's friend happened to fall down a set of stairs. Kirika seemed awfully tense when I mentioned that to her.
[X] You said earlier that you knew about everything I would do better than I could. Well, I also know you somewhat.
- [X] I know that there is nothing you won't do to keep this city safe. I've seen what kind of horrible things your capable of. You believed in what your father was doing and believed in making the world into a better place. Then when he betrayed everything and fell from grace, people blamed you in his place since he wasn't around anymore. It got to a point where you didn't what to do anymore, so you wished to find meaning for your life. When you made that wish, did you see it all leading up to this?
-- {X]The only person who say you for you was Kirika, and yet you let her turn herself into an unstable psycho. You don't seem to see that though, you just see a happy girl that loves you. You call her quirky, but you didn't see the look in her eyes when she had mistakenly thought that I had threatened a "symbol of your love". She's capable of killing people without batting eye or feeling a hint of regret.
[X] You have the power to see the future, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have the power to change it. If you want to make this world a better place than this isn't the way to do it. I know the bad you can do, but I also the good that you can do as well.
[X] You speak as if your death is a certainty or inevitable, but the future is never certain and your foresight isn't foolproof. Homura and I have already proved that. I can help you, but you have to give me something.
- [X] Homura isn't going to hurt you. Not until we're done here and have said everything that we need to say. And she won't hurt you afterwards either if you can prove to be the person I know you can be. If you're still worried, I'll carry your gem myself and protect it.
-- [X] You say that you will leave a legacy behind, and you're right. If you keep going down this road than it will be the exact same one as your father left behind. No one will think about all the good you have done. All everyone will care about will be all horrible things you did and the mistakes you made near the end.
[X] I don't care about what you wrote earlier. It doesn't have to be this way. It's not necessary. So, let me help you.
Ugh, so freaking long and I kind of ran out of stem. Someone one trim it down to something coherent, because I'm really tired and I can't really bring myself to care. So whatever. I'm going to sleep now.
[X] Continue Talking
- [X] Here, with Homura
[X] And I could have just left you to die when Homura blew half your face off and yet here we are. If I just stood aside right now, do you think she would hesitate? You looked fast earlier, but your not faster than a bullet.
- [X] We can't talk alone if that's what you're getting at. Homura really wants you dead, and just giving me the chance to talk you is taking up more faith and trust than what she usually possesses. Plus, that would mean getting out of the timestop where Kyubey can easily listen in on us.
-- [X] You say that you didn't want Sayaka dead, but there were other people in that building. Did you ever stop to think that fire could have killed or injured a whole bunch of innocent people?
-- [X] Then there was that little incident where Sayaka's friend happened to fall down a set of stairs. Kirika seemed awfully tense when I mentioned that to her.
[X] You said earlier that you knew about everything I would do better than I could. Well, I also know you somewhat.
- [X] I know that there is nothing you won't do to keep this city safe. I've seen what kind of horrible things your capable of. You believed in what your father was doing and believed in making the world into a better place. Then when he betrayed everything and fell from grace, people blamed you in his place since he wasn't around anymore. It got to a point where you didn't what to do anymore, so you wished to find meaning for your life. When you made that wish, did you see it all leading up to this?
-- {X]The only person who say you for you was Kirika, and yet you let her turn herself into an unstable psycho. You don't seem to see that though, you just see a happy girl that loves you. You call her quirky, but you didn't see the look in her eyes when she had mistakenly thought that I had threatened a "symbol of your love". She's capable of killing people without batting eye or feeling a hint of regret.
[X] You have the power to see the future, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have the power to change it. If you want to make this world a better place than this isn't the way to do it. I know the bad you can do, but I also the good that you can do as well.
[X] You speak as if your death is a certainty or inevitable, but the future is never certain and your foresight isn't foolproof. Homura and I have already proved that. I can help you, but you have to give me something.
- [X] Homura isn't going to hurt you. Not until we're done here and have said everything that we need to say. And she won't hurt you afterwards either if you can prove to be the person I know you can be. If you're still worried, I'll carry your gem myself and protect it.
-- [X] You say that you will leave a legacy behind, and you're right. If you keep going down this road than it will be the exact same one as your father left behind. No one will think about all the good you have done. All everyone will care about will be all horrible things you did and the mistakes you made near the end.
[X] I don't care about what you wrote earlier. It doesn't have to be this way. It's not necessary. So, let me help you.
Ugh, so freaking long and I kind of ran out of stem. Someone one trim it down to something coherent, because I'm really tired and I can't really bring myself to care. So whatever. I'm going to sleep now.
RazorBlaxe
Just another transient being
- Location
- Earth
Welcome to SV. Leave your
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Jesus fuck, WHY IS ANYONE EVEN CONSIDERING LEAVING THE TIMESTOP?!
There is NO REASON to do so. It also risks:
1) Mami stumbling onto a whole bunch of nasty revelations.
2) Kirika witching out.
3) Kyubey overhearing a bunch of things we don't want him to.
As for what Oriko could possibly do to ruin everything here and now: simply put, she can't. She has nothing. There is nothing she could possibly know that Homura does not already know or would be hurt by knowing. Even if there was, Homura's instinct would be to disbelieve whatever Oriko was saying, unless Sabrina backed it up. Either way, there's no threat.
Oriko's precognition is far from perfect. If she insists that Sabrina is going to cause some doom or another, we can easily just deny it, and point to the current situation as concrete evidence that it's bullshit.
-------
In the bigger picture, we should not be killing Oriko or Kirika, nor should we just banish them. Oriko is misguided and wrong, yes, but her ultimate goals are in line with ours, and she is under the (mistaken) impression that she is doomed to die soon no matter what. That kind of impression makes one do things they otherwise would not do, and in Oriko's case, it makes even more sense.
It won't be easy, but we need to get through to her, for her own sake if not for ours. In a way, she's caught in her own grief spiral (but she's clinging to a greater purpose, no matter the cost, as it's the only thing she thinks she has left), and it's up to us to break her out of it. If we can do that, we gain two allies without cost. Oriko is convinced that she's doomed to die soon no matter what, but the only way she could be under that impression is if she also believes that Sabrina would never accept Oriko and help her out. Thing is, Sabrina's powers means that Oriko's powers won't burn out her soul gem no matter how costly (and dysfunctional) they are, nor would Oriko have to fight any witches anymore. That means there's no way she could die under our care. It also means a steady supply of grief marbles.
There is NO REASON to do so. It also risks:
1) Mami stumbling onto a whole bunch of nasty revelations.
2) Kirika witching out.
3) Kyubey overhearing a bunch of things we don't want him to.
As for what Oriko could possibly do to ruin everything here and now: simply put, she can't. She has nothing. There is nothing she could possibly know that Homura does not already know or would be hurt by knowing. Even if there was, Homura's instinct would be to disbelieve whatever Oriko was saying, unless Sabrina backed it up. Either way, there's no threat.
Oriko's precognition is far from perfect. If she insists that Sabrina is going to cause some doom or another, we can easily just deny it, and point to the current situation as concrete evidence that it's bullshit.
-------
In the bigger picture, we should not be killing Oriko or Kirika, nor should we just banish them. Oriko is misguided and wrong, yes, but her ultimate goals are in line with ours, and she is under the (mistaken) impression that she is doomed to die soon no matter what. That kind of impression makes one do things they otherwise would not do, and in Oriko's case, it makes even more sense.
It won't be easy, but we need to get through to her, for her own sake if not for ours. In a way, she's caught in her own grief spiral (but she's clinging to a greater purpose, no matter the cost, as it's the only thing she thinks she has left), and it's up to us to break her out of it. If we can do that, we gain two allies without cost. Oriko is convinced that she's doomed to die soon no matter what, but the only way she could be under that impression is if she also believes that Sabrina would never accept Oriko and help her out. Thing is, Sabrina's powers means that Oriko's powers won't burn out her soul gem no matter how costly (and dysfunctional) they are, nor would Oriko have to fight any witches anymore. That means there's no way she could die under our care. It also means a steady supply of grief marbles
.
Omegastar
fear the {CENSORED}.
you're not being funny you know.
RazorBlaxe
Just another transient being
- Location
- Earth
Yes. I know, your point?you're not being funny you know.
FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
'Give in'? My scheme doesn't just give her what she asks for (and what we want, because it's likely that we don't want Homura to know everything she knows), it also leaves us much better placed to scrag her if we don't like what she has to say. Once we leave the timestop, telepathy starts working again; we can silently instruct Homura to smash her gem and she'll have no time to react. Even if she's packing a large bomb on a dead man's switch or something, everyone's gems will be far enough away that we'll survive, albeit with a seriously trashed body.
As long as it didn't lead to the Incubators straight-up blowing the city out from under our feet or something similarly drastic, that'd serve our ends quite nicely.
- Location
- In that den of villains and scum, OKLAHOMA
Questing is Srs bidness. Also, the more you rage, the less people take you seriously.
you're not being funny you know.
Disagree, I thought it was HI-LARIOUS
See, I see this bit right here, and I kinda disregard what follows. Seriously dude, no one wants to read a wall o' text prefaced by 'ANGRY MCRAGE'. Actually, no one wants to read a wall of text, period.
RazorBlaxe
Just another transient being
- Location
- Earth
...You know, Oriko IS a precog. Maybe she knows that breaking the Facade =/= instadeath for everyone? And how does breaking the facade helps? I'm not sure. All it does is having governments panic at the alien presence within their territory, people making stupid wishes, Meguca witching out everywhere (if everything goes public, including Witche's origin) and non witching our Meguca being used as weapons by everyone else with brains.