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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Choo Choo said:
Yeah, we can do without Oriko and Kirika on the team. Too much crazy, and that's coming from the brain damaged avatar of an SV thread.
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Let's talk to them first, before leaping to conclusions. It's possible that Oriko could be swayed away from the crazy, or made to see the error of her ways. Hell, it'd be kind of hard for her to argue the point when she got her brains blown out and Kirika effectively killed because of her actions.

Also, Kirika doesn't seem to be as brain-damaged as she was in canon, so she herself is not guaranteed to be a lost cause either. Especially if we can sway Oriko.

I think, crazy as Oriko has been so far, she's seemed more misguided and distant from the reality of her actions, rather than simply insane or monstrous. Given what point she was at in her life when contracting, and the nature of her powers (and Kirika's total devotion to her, no matter what she asks of her), it's possible that she just hasn't had anyone question her whole outlook and methodology before. The one time we managed to even try was when we were fighting with her, and she was running for her goddamn life.

Perhaps Oriko was convinced that her life expectancy was quite short regardless of what she did, given that her powers may have been always on (and thus corrupting her gem like crazy), so she decided to play the villain to get as much good done as she could in what little time she had (as in, providing an outside enemy to get Homura, Mami, Sabrina, Madoka, and Sayaka to trust and care about each other).
 
Just gonna bandwagon here. Best choice so far is just focusing on healing and chit chating before jumping into the serious bussiness.

[x] Dirtnap
 
angelofwhim said:
[] Continue with the healing
- [] To a 'not visibly dead' state
[] Talk to Homura
- [] Write-in topic
"Have you tried using a Davy Crocket on W?"
[] Write-in
KEEP ALL DEH MARBLES. I LIKE TO SEE NUMBERS GROW.
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Unless Homura took a break one loop to go loot bases halfway across the planet, there's no way in hell she could get ahold of a Davy Crockett, and I don't think even she would use a nuke in a populated city.
 
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[x] Continue with the healing
- [x] To a 'not dead' state
[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] Small talk. Hobbies? Favorite foods? Something not meguca related for once?
-[x]She made friends with Madoka and company during the first Oriko timeline. Why did she stop doing that?

Edit: Added Ugolino's write-in.
 
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[x] Continue with the healing
- [x] To a 'not dead' state
[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] Small talk. Hobbies? Favorite foods? Something not meguca related for once?
 
Dirtnap said:
By the time she starts fighting WPN? There's not much of a city left.
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Yeah, I'm aware it's kinda an academic constraint, but AntiNuke sympathises do run string in Japan; plus, it could noticeably affect how the public perceives the aftermath of WPN; instead of a city wrecked by a superstorm, it could be a city wrecked by legendary terror attack or something.

Off that note, I'll add my vote the bandwagon:

[X] Dirtnap
 
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[x] Continue with the healing
-[x] To a 'not dead' state

[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] Small talk. Hobbies? Favorite foods? Something not meguca related for once?
 
Aranfan said:
Kirika turned her personality inside out to be able to confess/be-with Oriko. When Kirika witched out, that witch not only didn't attack Oriko, it helped defend her.
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Funny thing is that when Homura witched out in Rebellion Madoka was never attacked by her Witch, or any of the familiars either. It's one thing they can agree on even as they're bsuy trying to kill everything else.
 
[x] Continue with the healing
-[x] To a 'not dead' state

[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] Small talk. Hobbies? Favorite foods? Something not meguca related for once?
 
Dirtnap said:
...that is still not the act of a sane individual.
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*shrug* Eh. No more than any other war crime. Remember that from Oriko's perspective the world was on the line. Very serious adults in just about any military you care to name have done basically the same thing (bomb a school to get at a target) for far less reason, and we call them evil, not insane.
 
Schwer-Muta said:
...Oriko is not a solider. She is a teenage girl.
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She's a puella, that means she's effectively a child soldier. Which, granted, fucks people up fast. She's certainly not "too crazy" compared to the illustrious beacons of sanity and stability that are Mami and Homura. The fact remains that the actions Oriko undertook are, in fact, the actions of people we consider evil but not insane. I am merely extending the same view to her.

Edit: bah, negators, the worst sort of typo.
 
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Silver said:
...you know, next time we gib a meguca's head, we should try telepathically talking to her soul gem, finally find out if we actually need our brains to function1​. Can't do it now, cuz Bunnycat's not in time stop to be our telepathy relay.

1: There are so many things wrong with this sentence.​
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Haven't we already used telepathy in timestop? Is Kyubey necessary for telepathy even when people are right next to each other? Also, Kyubey is around, time is just stopped. Don't know how that factors in (if electricity still flows while time is stopped because we're using it, then...maybe telepathy transmissions we're using still flow as long as there is a relay around at all?).

But seriously, we should heal our own injuries before we start interrogating Oriko. Magical girl or not, having a blade stabbed into your thigh is not pleasant, and losing tons of blood is not particularly fun either. It'd make Mami feel better, at least, and time is stopped for the duration of the healing, so why not?
 
Sabrina's own injuries are pretty trivial, to the point of not even interfering with combat or being that noticeable. Oriko interrogation first. Pointing out the consequences of her actions and offering alternatives that still save the world is definitely a thing that'll happen but we need to learn about Oriko's own plans first.

Added a question to the Dirtnap vote that I feel might be helpful.

[x] Continue with the healing
-[x] To a 'not dead' state

[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] Small talk. Hobbies? Favorite foods? Something not meguca related for once?
-[x]She made friends with Madoka and company during the first Oriko timeline. Why did she stop doing that?​
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
Haven't we already used telepathy in timestop? Is Kyubey necessary for telepathy even when people are right next to each other? Also, Kyubey is around, time is just stopped. Don't know how that factors in (if electricity still flows while time is stopped because we're using it, then...maybe telepathy transmissions we're using still flow as long as there is a relay around at all?).
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Nah, that was a mistake on my part. Fixed that, and made a note of having fixed that, too. Apologies if that caused any confusion.
 
Aranfan said:
She's a puella, that means she's effectively a child soldier. Which, granted, fucks people up fast. She's certainly not "too crazy" compared to the illustrious beacons of sanity and stability that are Mami and Homura. The fact remains that the actions Oriko undertook are, in fact, the actions of people we consider evil but not insane. I am merely extending the same view to her.

Edit: bah, negators, the worst sort of typo.
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Except that Oriko is a teenage girl with the ability to see the future. And one of the things she inevitably sees? WPN, the city-destroying disaster that will kill everyone in the city unless she can find some way to stop it. Even worse, if Madoka witches out, it's the end of the world. If she's the only one (if she can't tell that Homura also knows, or how she knows) that knows what's coming, then yes, extreme actions are put in new context. She's operating at the Godzilla Threshold already, while from our perspective it looks like it's just craziness.

Remember the mix of despair, desperation, horror, and loneliness involved. We should not make judgments until after we get answers from her, because those answers will give us the frame through which we can finally view all of her actions thus far.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Except that Oriko is a teenage girl with the ability to see the future. And one of the things she inevitably sees? WPN, the city-destroying disaster that will kill everyone in the city unless she can find some way to stop it. Even worse, if Madoka witches out, it's the end of the world. If she's the only one (if she can't tell that Homura also knows, or how she knows) that knows what's coming, then yes, extreme actions are put in new context. She's operating at the Godzilla Threshold already, while from our perspective it looks like it's just craziness.

Remember the mix of despair, desperation, horror, and loneliness involved. We should not make judgments until after we get answers from her, because those answers will give us the frame through which we can finally view all of her actions thus far.
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She knows that Homura knows: she just completely disagrees with her Madoka-first mindset and has a similar "it's all down to me/this is my purpose" thing going on.
 
Aranfan said:
I think we're agreeing?
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I mean that she's not just crazy for craziness' sake. She shares similar goals, but just has a different idea about the means to achieve those goals. If we can convince her that her means were counterproductive, or at least unnecessary, then we'd gain an ally. Well, two.

Oriko, by virtue of her powers, is under a ton of pressure and operating without anything in the way of guidance or peer review. Also, her powers give her the probable mistake of not realizing that, even with her precognition, she would still need all that.

So, at the very least, we need to investigate further and see whether or not Oriko deserves another chance, and how much of one. Making judgments like that before getting those answers--when you're not forced to, anyway--is just plain irresponsible.
 
...Waffles. She's not ally material. At best she's misguided and deluded herself that it was the only way to do things, but we're not recruiting her so much at best putting her under house arrest or exile- she needs to stop being a problem but we can't really use her if only because she's gone out of her way to burn bridges. Anything more than "warn us what made you go full crazy, and don't cause more problems" seems unlikely.
 
...Why are all the Well-Intentioned Extremists with any kind of precog power/prophecy failing so hard at actually doing good, much more than those who don't?
(Granted, those who actually succeeded probably just aren't noticed for the sole reason that they actually succeeded, but still).
 
Aerhyce said:
...Why are all the Well-Intentioned Extremists with any kind of precog power/prophecy failing so hard at actually doing good, much more than those who don't?
(Granted, those who actually succeeded probably just aren't noticed for the sole reason that they actually succeeded, but still).
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Because usually the precog/prophecy power falls into "Things man are not supposed to know if he wants to remain sane." category.
 
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