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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
We're not going to expose ourselves to a familiar in a Witch Barrier again. Manipulating a Witch core with Homura in timestop and a seed pressed to our gem is another story. Either way, it's what Mami needs to hear.
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but we need to do it again (abit a lot safer now that we know what to expect) to understand the familiar/witch more.
that and we have info to make a Proto-seed (first step in a long quest but a step non-the-less)
Also relax a bit Ugo, no need to turn up the Panic button to max.
 

Basically this.

More seriously, all this discussion about what exactly to say to Mami made me realise an extremely unpleasant fact: Mami (or rather Limpet!Mami) is a huge pain in the ass. It really hurts me to say this, but it's true. There are moments when her former badassery can be seen (such us during the ambush) but for the most part, Mami is an incovienience we have to work around instead of a companion we can work with. And the worst part is that it's our fault. I really wish there was an easy way to fix this, but there isn't.
 
Cruadin said:
Basically this.

More seriously, all this discussion about what exactly to say to Mami made me realise an extremely unpleasant fact: Mami (or rather Limpet!Mami) is a huge pain in the ass. It really hurts me to say this, but it's true. There are moments when her former badassery can be seen (such us during the ambush) but for the most part, Mami is an incovienience we have to work around instead of a companion we can work with. And the worst part is that it's our fault. I really wish there was an easy way to fix this, but there isn't.
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Mami's state isn't an inconvenience so much as something we need to fix. Look at it as a goal. And this way, she isn't being manipulated by Kyubey and we can work to undo the damage we did with the revelations.
 
Cruadin said:
Mami (or rather Limpet!Mami) is a huge pain in the ass. It really hurts me to say this, but it's true. There are moments when her former badassery can be seen (such us during the ambush) but for the most part, Mami is an incovienience we have to work around instead of a companion we can work with.
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...Slooooooowww.

Sorry.
 
So... our fault, but we couldn't really not tell her about the Lich thing and, by extension, QB being a manipulative shit.

Does it become less our fault if it was necessary and sort of inevitable?
 
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landcollector said:
Please explain how it's our fault.
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Lichbomb. Well, it's existence is not our fault, but dropping it on her is. Unfortunately, our other options weren't much better. It's a really shitty situation with no good solution.

Ugolino said:
Mami's state isn't an inconvenience so much as something we need to fix. Look at it as a goal. And this way, she isn't being manipulated by Kyubey and we can work to undo the damage we did with the revelations.
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What I mean by incovenience is that pretty much every decision we make is influenced by how it affects Mami. I guess I'm just tired of constant battles over phrasing (one wrong word, and our precious Mumi will get her feelings hurt), battles over risky actions (if we get hurt, our precious Mumi will be sad) and generally walking on eggshells whenever she's involved. Also, the constant hugs, cuddles, and handholding are annoying as hell, but I realise that it's my personal preference (I'm not a very touchy-feely person).

Krecart said:
Does it become less our fault if it was necessary and sort of inevitable?
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Like I said, a really shitty situation with no good solution.
 
Krecart said:
So... our fault, but we couldn't really not tell her about the Lich thing and, by extension, QB being a manipulative shit.

Does it become less our fault if it was necessary and sort of inevitable?
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No, but this way gives us a chance to undo the damage...and it's better than the alternative of her being killed off by Kyubey or when she finds out the truth on different terms.
 
Cruadin said:
Basically this.

More seriously, all this discussion about what exactly to say to Mami made me realise an extremely unpleasant fact: Mami (or rather Limpet!Mami) is a huge pain in the ass. It really hurts me to say this, but it's true. There are moments when her former badassery can be seen (such us during the ambush) but for the most part, Mami is an incovienience we have to work around instead of a companion we can work with. And the worst part is that it's our fault. I really wish there was an easy way to fix this, but there isn't.
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Eh, her concerns are entirely logical and fair; we do seem to have the survival instincts of a lemming with all the trouble we get ourselves into. I wouldn't call her an inconvenience, since the only thing we're iffy about doing at all because of her would be Asunaro (because of the witchbomb), and even that we're about as eager to do as we are to pull our own teeth. She's fragile, sure, and we have to be careful around her, but she's not an inconvenience.

Also, her current state is our fault, but it's also the lesser of two evils: she could still be totally in the dark about all this. We can't beat ourselves up about telling her the truth.
 
Yea, Mami limpeting on us is most certainly not healthy, but it is still MILES better than limpeting onto a "friend" and a system who is actively out to harm her in the long run. Although co-dependence is NOT good, I would rather her be co-dependent on something/someone not trying to subversively damage her. As much as I hate to say it, the current situation is better than what she had before...

Unless anyone here is actually trained in therapy or psychology, we are just going to have to play it by ear and do the best we can.(Though, my dad has a doctorates in psychology)
 
Krecart said:
Bleh, we really need to find some SCIENCE! buddies.
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Asunaro~~

...Okay, I'm trolling, so to prevent myself from getting modbombed, in all seriousness, I feel like Homura is the best plan here. She has a frankly ridiculous amount of organization, has probably worked with advanced statistics, numerical methods, and modeling of complex systems, has a nontrivial knowledge of magic as it is, and will do just about anything to fuck up Walpurgisnacht good.
 
Crasian01 said:
Asunaro~~

...Okay, I'm trolling, so to prevent myself from getting modbombed, in all seriousness, I feel like Homura is the best plan here. She has a frankly ridiculous amount of organization, has probably worked with advanced statistics, numerical methods, and modeling of complex systems, has a nontrivial knowledge of magic as it is, and will do just about anything to fuck up Walpurgisnacht good.
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Agreed, but isn't it unfair to get parental assistance on our science fair project? :p

Also, I forgot we already know how to get a SCIENCE! buddy:
 
Krecart said:
Agreed, but isn't it unfair to get parental assistance on our science fair project? :p

Also, I forgot we already know how to get a SCIENCE! buddy:
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Heh.

Still, any objections to asking Homura for help? Because really, unless it turns out in story that she doesn't actually know what she's doing (which is so unlikely that I will actually explode in confusion if it's true), she's probably our best bet.
 
Crasian01 said:
Heh.

Still, any objections to asking Homura for help? Because really, unless it turns out in story that she doesn't actually know what she's doing (which is so unlikely that I will actually explode in confusion if it's true), she's probably our best bet.
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Can't think of any. There's only one thing we can't really talk about/do around her and that's Homumom/Momura.

Dunno how much help she'd be with the Grief side of things and Mami is leagues better at enchantment (and probably magic in general) than well just about anybody, but Homura is definitely our safest option for lab assistant.
 
Krecart said:
Can't think of any. There's only one thing we can't really talk about/do around her and that's Homumom/Momura.

Dunno how much help she'd be with the Grief side of things and Mami is leagues better at enchantment (and probably magic in general) than well just about anybody, but Homura is definitely our safest option for lab assistant.
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I would really call her our Magic Senpai. "Lab assistant" presumes that she's not as good as us at SCIENCE!, when in reality she's probably miles ahead of us. "Research Engineer" is a position that we like to use at my uni, so maybe that's a good descriptor too?
 
Crasian01 said:
I would really call her our Magic Senpai. "Lab assistant" presumes that she's not as good as us at SCIENCE!, when in reality she's probably miles ahead of us. "Research Engineer" is a position that we like to use at my uni, so maybe that's a good descriptor too?
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That works. Homumom is probably better at lower-case science than the vast majority of us.

We're definitely better at SCIENCE! though.

e: The Pleiades are the only other folks we know about that will engage in SCIENCE!
 
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The way I see it, we have these options for SCIENCE!:
  • Homura: Knows all bombs, has no real limits. Good with machinery and explosives, so probably good if we plan to work with conventional forces/devices at any point. Time Stop is a great way to keep a situation controlled, and gives us sufficient time to do research...we should definitely stick a limit on how long we use Time Stop in a given session, but being able to work uninterrupted for an hour or two would be nice.

  • Mami: Best Magic user, most likely. Excellent enchanter, and completely loyal...to bad she doesn't know about the Witchbomb. We can, however, get her help in any non-Witchbomb related SCIENCE, which would be good. Also good for her confidence if she gets to show off her talents.

  • Madoka: Not a Magus, but supportive and by no means stupid. Would definitely be willing to help, and has no risk of Grief Spiraling in response to the bombs. Downside: Homura would probably kill us.

  • Sayaka: Not a complete nonstarter, as I can imagine she'd be very interested in saving everyone by restoring Witches and such. Not really suited for academic work, however.

  • Kyouko: Possible option, but we don't have much of a relationship with her right now. Might be able to help her more if we "charge her" for cleanses by "employing" her as a research assistant. Good bonding opportunityh.

  • Oriko: Great option overall. Knows all the Bombs, would love to reverse Witching, considering how much it scares her, and can warn us if we're about to accidentally all creation.

  • Kirika: Another great option, because anti-magic makes for a great safety net in case of berserk magic. Also perky and curious, not to mention being Best Buddy.

  • Pleiades: Haven't read Kazumi enough to know personalities, but they clearly are smart enough to do some SCIENCE on their own...and even make progress. Not necessarily stable, but...well, it's SCIENCE. Could be very helpful, but require watching. We'll have to retrieve the members we want via Grief Raven before their leader gets herself killed.

  • Rin: We really need her, but only for the purpose of developing new bodies for Witches, unless she demonstrates an unusual talent for SCIENCE!

  • Sakura: Useless as an assistant, but we might learn a lot from studying her teleportation. Must be consensual, obviously, and no harm should come to the subject in question.

For now, I'm thinking, in order of priority:
  1. Homura
  2. Oriko
  3. Kirika
  4. pertinent Pleiades,
  5. Kyouko
We can get the first 3 together for research any time, with no real problems.

The Pleiades need kidnapping recruiting.

Kyouko's pretty much only here as a helping hand (providing food, fetching pieces of Witches for us to study, collecting Grief Seeds, retrieving people we need, etc.)...mostly, this is just a way to build a friendship with the girl.


Secondary members, for specialized issues:
  • Mami (non-Witchbomb issues)
  • Rin (body regrowth)
  • Sakura (teleportation research subject)

Thoughts? Am I forgetting anyone useful?
 
Crasian01 said:
Heh.

Still, any objections to asking Homura for help? Because really, unless it turns out in story that she doesn't actually know what she's doing (which is so unlikely that I will actually explode in confusion if it's true), she's probably our best bet.
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I don't have any objections, but do bear in mind that she probably won't be off much help other than watching our backs in case we screw up. Her experience with witches are really more of the "How to kill them effectively" variety, and very little in the vein of what we are doing. Most of the things we would be trying would not be possible in the first place without our powers anyway, so it'll probably be as unfamiliar to her as it would be to us.
 
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