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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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How about we allude that we're sad that we can't remember when our birthday is -or ever having had one- to Madoka at some point today? Hopefully at a time when it doesn't seem hopefully insensitive to everyone else, ideally if she confronts us about our not looking sad. Then she'll likely rush off and prepare a big party in a day or two which will make her feel useful and everyone else feel happy because birthday party and cake.

Edit: weird, it's supposed to run from 31 seconds in. Ah well
 
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PhantomFractions said:
The 'no, I don't really have a problem with it. It's convenient, no danger to me, plus I'm running off different cultural values than you guys.' would get an amusing reaction (but would perhaps be ill advised due to implying that it's not such a big deal from a certain mindset).
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You stand up to show your friends out, Mami only a second behind you, when you notice something...off...with Madoka. She had spent all dinner shooting weird looks at you and now is hesitating rather then following Sayaka to the door.

Homura meanwhile is still staring at Madoka. Given what happened you doubt she planning on staying the night. Probably going to spend it stalking Madoka and killing Kyubey bodies.

Just as you're about to ask if there is anything wrong Madoka nods, presumably to herself, and locks her pink eyes on your blue ones and in a surprisingly firm tone asks "Can I talk to you alone for a minute Sabrina?".

You are rather stunned by her question. You can't think of anything Madoka would want to talk to you alone about. If she just wanted to ask more about Soul Gems or Kyubey she wouldn't need to talk privately.

Judging by the way Mami is squeezing your hand she really doesn't want to be separated from you right now and you don't really like the idea yourself. What happened yesterday and dropping the Lichbomb on Madoka and Sayaka really haven't helped Mami's mental state. She is probably concerned about what you want to talk about later tonight as well.

Still. If Madoka really did spend all of dinner convincing herself to talk to you and felt it was important enough to do privately it must be pretty urgent.

You give Mami's hand a good squeeze before replying "Sure. We can talk in my room?" getting a nod from Madoka you give Mami a final squeeze before letting go and leading Madoka to your room.

The second you close the door behind the two of you Madoka's confidence seems to take a nosedive. Damn. It must be really serious if she is this worked up about it.

Clearly fighting the urge to fidget Madoka begins to speak "U-um. Sabrina. I-I know this must be pretty hard on you..." What? "...and if you want to talk..."

Is. Is she worried about you? But why? You don't remember doing anything to give her the impression your having problems. Maybe it was the toneless way you explained why Kyubey puts your souls in gems?

"I'm fine Madoka. There's"

"You're not fine!" You can help but display the utter disbelief you're feeling on your face. Did Madoka just interrupt you? "You woke up dying in an alley with no memories but you still put on a strong face for me and Sayaka! Even when we were complete strangers! Then you found out that Kyubey had turned your soul into a rock! And this time you put on a strong face for Mami. Now you bring up all that pain you must be feeling again just to keep me and Sayaka safe! And you still put on a brave face, even as Mami is crying and Homura visibly hurting, for all of us. I-it's okay Sabrina. Y-ou don't have to be strong for me. I-I can... I can help you to! So please, please don't lie to me and say your fine when your not!"

Wow. You. You didn't think of it like that. Put that way it's easy to see how Madoka could think your just pretending to be strong for everyone else. Especially since she thinks you didn't know the truth about Soul Gems before contracting.

Now. How to try and explain it...

"Uh... thanks Madoka. But really I am fine. I'm not lying." You see Madoka about to interrupt you again "Please Madoka. Let me finish. I have an idea of what my past was and why I ended up in that alley like that. I'm not certain but if I'm right then it's really not worth worrying about. As for finding out about Soul Gems..."

You take a deep breath here to buy time as you try and figure out how to word this. In the end you decide to go with the straightforward route. "I already knew."

Madoka has shifted from her earlier anger, and wasn't that a surprise, to a state of shock. "Y-you knew?"

You give her a quick nod. "Yeah. I knew. It's why I decided to contract. Even if it didn't heal me being a Lich would mean I definitely wouldn't die."

"Rlich" Huh. Madoka slurred the 'l-' phenome exactly like Homura did.

For this you lean up against the door. "Lich. It's an English word from a game called Dungeons and Dragons. Liches were basically powerful wizards who found a way to remove their soul and store it in a magical device called a Phylactery. As long as their Phylactery isn't destroyed they can survive anything but if the Phylactery is destroyed they die."

You briefly pause to take a breath and use that pause to search Madoka's face for any signs of confusion. Finding none you push ahead. "That also ties into why I don't really have any issues with what Kyubey did to me. I went in knowing what would happen, so there wasn't any sense of betrayal, and in western culture Liches are generally only considered evil because you have to do stuff like kill babies to become one. The idea of separating my soul from my body doesn't really cause any problems for me. Although I understand it is a very different thing here in Japan."

You stand upright and walk closer to Madoka to help emphasis your next point "That is where my problem with Kyubey comes from. He deceives girls into becoming magical girls all while knowing that to them the very process of becoming one is a horrible mutilation they would never agree to. He is a predator that preys on innocent girls like you, Sayaka, and Mami by exploiting your trust in him when in reality all he cares about is what value he can squeeze out of you."

...This was suppose to be a short omake about how Sabrina, like most of SV, would happily jump at the opportunity to become a Lich, or at least a Puella style Lich, even if it didn't come with a free wish. I have no idea where I went wrong...

Ahh, I've got a feeling that Dresden File's Uriel-quote: "You've got it backwards, Harry. You are a soul, you have a body." is gonna come up at some point. :) (Love that quote.)
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Huh. That is a pretty cool, appropriate, and insightful quote. Most people, at least in a western context, do tend to think of themselves as separate from their souls (assuming they believe in one). Things like saying it's "my soul" or the idea of losing your soul are dependent upon the idea that a soul is separate from 'you' when if souls do exist you would be the your soul so you can't really view it as separate to "I" and losing it would be impossible.
 
Jackercracks said:
How about we allude that we're sad that we can't remember when our birthday is -or ever having had one- to Madoka at some point today? Hopefully at a time when it doesn't seem hopefully insensitive to everyone else, ideally if she confronts us about our not looking sad. Then she'll likely rush off and prepare a big party in a day or two which will make her feel useful and everyone else feel happy because birthday party and cake.
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I wouldn't mind the idea, but the thread as a whole doesn't seem to worried about our actual origins. Curious, sure, but it's not really a souce of angst. Again, we could open up about what's actually bothering us- guilt and doubt.
 
UberJJK said:
...This was suppose to be a short omake about how Sabrina, like most of SV, would happily jump at the opportunity to become a Lich, or at least a Puella style Lich, even if it didn't come with a free wish. I have no idea where I went wrong...
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Nitpick: According to strict rules of the most widely known D&D edition (3.5), Liches dont die when you smash the phylactery, They just dont come back again. (The soul can apparently still exist tied to their undead body as long as it is intact).
D&D may not have originated either, but probably codified it, in a way.

Although there is something to the idea of telling them. What is specifically wrong with being immortal? We can pretty much negate the inly real downside (corruption).
Also, kyoko is sort of christian, so she may share a more western view. IIRC she took it relatively well in the original series too.
 
The japanese aversion to things like soul removal has always bugged me. Growing up in a christian household I've always been working under the idea that my body was just a temporary housing for my soul. It's hardware, a meat puppet, it's important in that it is made for me by God but is ultimately disposable. It will fail one day and I'll move on to my reward. Becoming a meguca style lich would be a massive upgrade. Hell, even knowing about the witch thing I'd still be tempted to make a contract. For that reason the sheer horror of the madoka crew to the lich bomb is mind boggling to me.
 
cmwatford said:
The japanese aversion to things like soul removal has always bugged me. Growing up in a christian household I've always been working under the idea that my body was just a temporary housing for my soul. It's hardware, a meat puppet, it's important in that it is made for me by God but is ultimately disposable. It will fail one day and I'll move on to my reward. Becoming a meguca style lich would be a massive upgrade. Hell, even knowing about the witch thing I'd still be tempted to make a contract. For that reason the sheer horror of the madoka crew to the lich bomb is mind boggling to me.
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Cannongerbil said:
[actual thought process]
Sayaka, you are an immortal Lich! As long as the soul gem is intact, you are immortal. And unlike an actual lich, you still get to keep all your fleshy bits, so no one will even notice anything different unless you purposefully tell them about it. Hell, you yourself didn't notice anything different until Madoka threw it off a bridge! And this is on top of all the magic and stuff you get as part of being a meguca. Why the hell are you reacting like this?
[/actual thought process]
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Join the club.
 
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Gadjo said:
I wouldn't mind the idea, but the thread as a whole doesn't seem to worried about our actual origins. Curious, sure, but it's not really a souce of angst. Again, we could open up about what's actually bothering us- guilt and doubt.
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Do we have to get angsty to lament a lack of cake? Because I'll be honest, I was mainly suggesting it as a way to get birthday cake into our companions without having to spend any in-universe time planning or preparing. Most of them could do with cheering up.

I mean, you just know Mami would go crazy baking stuff for Sabs for a surprise party. Actually that's a thought, it would force her to not be with us for a few hours. I am worried about that girls mental state. I actually had a girlfriend like that once and Firn has got so many of the little things of the limpet mindset down perfectly. Never did figure out how to fix it though. On the upside limpeting (or koalaing) is generally stable longterm so long as we stick around and stay supportive. I'd prefer to help her though.

What makes it worse is that her fears aren't even completely unreasonable. We could totally get killed and leave her all alone, we do dangerous impulsive things all the time. How about we try and bring Kyouko into our little group again? Perhaps emphasise that it would keep her lil sister from having to risk herself against witches.
 
Jackercracks said:
Do we have to get angsty to lament a lack of cake? Because I'll be honest, I was mainly suggesting it as a way to get birthday cake into our companions without having to spend any in-universe time planning or preparing. Most of them could do with cheering up.
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While I approve of any plan that ends in cake, it seems a bit disingenuous when most of us don't actually feel bad about not having had a birthday party before.

Besides, I don't think we really need an excuse to have cake with Mami and friends.

Also, Sabs? :D
 
cmwatford said:
The japanese aversion to things like soul removal has always bugged me. Growing up in a christian household I've always been working under the idea that my body was just a temporary housing for my soul. It's hardware, a meat puppet, it's important in that it is made for me by God but is ultimately disposable. It will fail one day and I'll move on to my reward. Becoming a meguca style lich would be a massive upgrade. Hell, even knowing about the witch thing I'd still be tempted to make a contract. For that reason the sheer horror of the madoka crew to the lich bomb is mind boggling to me.
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Its not just christianity. Im an Atheist, and thus dont believe in Souls as it were, but i also have a slightly detached view of the mind or brain. Immortality by brain in jar or by mind uploading (assuming that actually uploads a mind and dosent just create a copy), i dont think i would have much problem with it.
It always depends on details of course, but i dont see much wrong with putting the center of you consciousness, wetehr thats a soul or something more materialistic, somewhere more durable. I may as well jump at it if it were offered.

Id figure wether one belives in an afterlife or not has more difference on thoughts about seeking immortality, but focusing on the human body so much seems still strange.
 
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I'd be a bit concerned about the whole 'turning my soul into a battery' that powers everything I do now for the rest of my life. Especially since the only way to recharge said battery is to fight monsters and other nightmarish abominations; other people who took the same deal you did and 'failed to recharge'.
 
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UberJJK said:
...This was suppose to be a short omake about how Sabrina, like most of SV, would happily jump at the opportunity to become a Lich, or at least a Puella style Lich, even if it didn't come with a free wish. I have no idea where I went wrong...
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Well there is also the downside of turning into a monster if things go wrong. Except we're too arrogant to think that would ever happen to us, so... win-win?
 
With Sabrina there, its really not so bad. Without her its problematic, with something to essentially recharge endlessly...
 
RE: Prisoner's dilemma. @Kinematics , @SynchronizedWritersBlock thoughts?


Let's assume for a moment that the incubators have *not* discovered all the potential bullshit magic can do. (Madokami lends credence to this.)

Now what I'm getting from the thread is that to break the system, we have to somehow find a reason for the incubators to see cooperation as profitable, or at least to make opposition a severe loss for them.

And from what I've seen so far is that we've been thinking in terms of how to create a much greater energy output than the witch-out process and from grief seeds.

Maybe we could try another avenue aside from beating the incubators in raw output? SInce they have had tens of thousands of years of practice (like since man discovered fire).

What I'm thinking of is SCIENCE. Or rather, magical bullshit SCIENCE.

Earth has thousands of megucas running around its cities, towns and villages everyday... yet not a single one of them cannot afford to do too much experimentation with magic and their own abilities, since they can literally die when their mana goes down to zero. The only R&D they develop is that which aids them fight. Better combat magic, more efficient use, etc.

Not to mention that megucas are like Fate magus: knowledge is jealously guarded. Any discoveries made are only passed via apprenticeship (Individually, or in groups), and any meguca a veteran teaches is a potential competitor for scarce resources in an ecosystem where the prey are reality warping eldritch abominations.

Not to mention the average 2-year (or was it 2 months?) lifespan of a meguca means not a whole lot of stuff gets discovered.

Meguca cannot literally catch a break, or at least not at the great cost of other meguca.

Sabrina's existence changes that. By removing the reliance to seeds, we give the meguca around us the opportunity to tinker with their magic in ways the incubators cannot begin to imagine. We've already begun that ourselves, with all the ridiculous trivial shit we make with our magic (instant bgm, grief mobile, all the SCIENCE), and the not-so-trivial research we do (turning seeds back into gems)

So, to put it into Civ terms: what we're offering is not commerce/wealth, but potential tech/research. Every meguca (or even just 1 out of 10) that doesn't not witch out is another meguca that's helping unlock all the possibilities that magic can offer. And considering that meguca may live to hundreds of years as long as they have the will to live and the seeds (or means) to cleanse their gems, that's a lot of researchers conducting magical bullshit science.

By trading off immediate bankroll, we are offering the incubators a better understanding of magic, a better, more efficient way of doing things. Allow humanity to uplift itself via magic, and maybe in a couple of thousand years, we would have found a permanent solution to that entropy thing that's been bugging them.

And if they think Gretchen's still a good idea? Well, I hope they're ready to glass the planet early on, because not all SCIENCE is fro beneficial purposes..

TLDR: Offer coobs not more grief output, but the potential for a permanent solution.
 
defenestrator said:
By trading off immediate bankroll, we are offering the incubators a better understanding of magic, a better, more efficient way of doing things. Allow humanity to uplift itself via magic, and maybe in a couple of thousand years, we would have found a permanent solution to that entropy thing that's been bugging them.
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This is the big rub in your plan, really. Like most humans, the incubators don't really tend towards adopting short term malus for potential long term gains. They want as much grief as they can get, and in as short a timeframe as possible. If we want to convince them to adopt an alternative system, we need to offer them something more concrete than "adopt lower grief yields and maybe in a couple of centuries we might be able to come up with something that could possibly be able to solve all their energy issues."
 
Well then, let's practice more magical research over the weekend or something. Maybe Homura can learn to slow down or speed up time, or Mami can learn to make (I think the term is 'break action') shotguns and shells and more ribbon-based BS. Just a mid-term plan, and the ramblings of a madman.
 
Random832 said:
Well there is also the downside of turning into a monster if things go wrong. Except we're too arrogant to think that would ever happen to us, so... win-win?
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Not sure it's arrogance. We just know there's only one thing that might get us that way.

...assuming, of course, we don't Witch-out for super powers or something similarly self-destructive.
 
defenestrator said:
RE: Prisoner's dilemma. @Kinematics , @SynchronizedWritersBlock thoughts?


Let's assume for a moment that the incubators have *not* discovered all the potential bullshit magic can do. (Madokami lends credence to this.)

Now what I'm getting from the thread is that to break the system, we have to somehow find a reason for the incubators to see cooperation as profitable, or at least to make opposition a severe loss for them.

And from what I've seen so far is that we've been thinking in terms of how to create a much greater energy output than the witch-out process and from grief seeds.

Maybe we could try another avenue aside from beating the incubators in raw output? SInce they have had tens of thousands of years of practice (like since man discovered fire).

What I'm thinking of is SCIENCE. Or rather, magical bullshit SCIENCE.

Earth has thousands of megucas running around its cities, towns and villages everyday... yet not a single one of them cannot afford to do too much experimentation with magic and their own abilities, since they can literally die when their mana goes down to zero. The only R&D they develop is that which aids them fight. Better combat magic, more efficient use, etc.

Not to mention that megucas are like Fate magus: knowledge is jealously guarded. Any discoveries made are only passed via apprenticeship (Individually, or in groups), and any meguca a veteran teaches is a potential competitor for scarce resources in an ecosystem where the prey are reality warping eldritch abominations.

Not to mention the average 2-year (or was it 2 months?) lifespan of a meguca means not a whole lot of stuff gets discovered.

Meguca cannot literally catch a break, or at least not at the great cost of other meguca.

Sabrina's existence changes that. By removing the reliance to seeds, we give the meguca around us the opportunity to tinker with their magic in ways the incubators cannot begin to imagine. We've already begun that ourselves, with all the ridiculous trivial shit we make with our magic (instant bgm, grief mobile, all the SCIENCE), and the not-so-trivial research we do (turning seeds back into gems)

So, to put it into Civ terms: what we're offering is not commerce/wealth, but potential tech/research. Every meguca (or even just 1 out of 10) that doesn't not witch out is another meguca that's helping unlock all the possibilities that magic can offer. And considering that meguca may live to hundreds of years as long as they have the will to live and the seeds (or means) to cleanse their gems, that's a lot of researchers conducting magical bullshit science.

By trading off immediate bankroll, we are offering the incubators a better understanding of magic, a better, more efficient way of doing things. Allow humanity to uplift itself via magic, and maybe in a couple of thousand years, we would have found a permanent solution to that entropy thing that's been bugging them.

And if they think Gretchen's still a good idea? Well, I hope they're ready to glass the planet early on, because not all SCIENCE is fro beneficial purposes..

TLDR: Offer coobs not more grief output, but the potential for a permanent solution.
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The problem is, that as long as we do not have a solution for our grief manipulation range problem, we can't clean magical girls that live far away.
Every plan that includes magical girls that live far away from us, sooner or later runs into thta limitation. We either need to grab enough grief seeds that we can use the half-filled seed method for groups that are further away, or we need to find a way to extract grief from far away or a way to store grief somewhere until we can collect it.
 
I don't really buy your particular interpretation either, @Rook . Yeah, the components are there, but the conclusions are all wrong.

Rook said:
Uh oh. Homu pls no-

Hahahahahaha fuck. Homu gonna Homu and be mildly jealous, and bitter. This... yeah. We have to talk to Homu before we start to burn through her goodwill even more. Very important - this should be something we take care of as soon as possible.
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See, my reading of this section is very different. Homura is very much someone who is stuck. In the past, in her own memories, in the patterns she's made for herself. If she's looking at Madoka like she could disappear any second, it's because she's remembering all the times Madoka's kindness did lead to her end. If she's nervous about comforting Mami, she's thinking about how fragile her once-sempai was, and how she's given up on doing anything about it.

Yes, it's not healthy, but no, I don't see it as usurping her role. She wouldn't see things that way. At her core, she's still stuck as the fragile girl who spent the entire original timeline thinking she was worthless.

Homura isn't the kind of person to flip her shit. She'll sink further and further into self-loathing, but unless she's faced with an actual threat to Madoka, she's not the kind to snap. The cold persona is something she hides her true self behind. Not recognizing that is misidentifying her completely.




This... is not good. At all. I have the klaxons firing in my head, since Homu being excluded/on the outside like this, at this time is bad juju.




We have, in order of priorities (though the first two are far and beyond more important) for social sooner rather than later;
1) Talk to the Homu so she doesn't flip her shit.
2) Give Mami GLORIOUS SENSE OF NORMALITY FROM SOCIAL INTERACTIONS - which is to say go out and do friendly shit/arts and crafts around the apartment with her.
3) Possibly try and defuse/facilitate/mediate the Madoka/Sayaka argument that's going to come up.

I'd like to tinker with the CG vote at some point, as we absolutely have to allude to these things - maybe not act on them in depth - ASAP, and I'd like to not put it off until tomorrow. We've had a day to get into things; @Firnagzen knows his shit so, narratively speaking, he's going to hit us hard tomorrow and I'd like to get things done when things aren't transparently going to hell :V
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RE: meguca-ing. The problem in my case would be like in Mura's case: I'm now forced to fight abominations that can kill me in order to keep on living. This is my life now, and I can't go back even if I want to. In the other hand, I'm can hardly consider myself as human anymore, because despite I still looks like a human, I have the power to do stuff people would consider as "superhuman".

Or in the worst case, "monstruous".

...

I have a character in one of my RP who will get to the first assumption once the lichbomb is dropped on her. I honestly look forward to it, since it will be interesting to write.
 
defenestrator said:
TLDR: Offer coobs not more grief output, but the potential for a permanent solution.
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From what I understand there really isn't one and that is a good thing. Entropy is very important to the continuing function of not just the universe but life itself. It's such a fundamental thing that messing with it is like messing with the gravitational constant of the universe. A. Very. Bad. Idea.

Honestly the Incubator's current system is probably the best we can get.
 
'Flip her shit' is bad wording of it, I'll admit; I suppose it does come across as me saying she'll go Murderface on us - and that, as you say, @SynchronizedWritersBlock is not likely at all. I'll chalk that misphrasing of my point to being rushed for time, sorry >_<.

I'll follow up on things and re-articulate my (still pertinent) point when I have the time, so hopefully today.
 
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