CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
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- The former Rubber Capital of the World
Why do I feel that this is gonna turn into a repeat of the Brazillian Nut briefing from Sayaka Quest? Especially in regards to how Madoka is gonna handle it?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
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Madoka is willing to self-sacrifice, yes, but she is not going to do it that easily.
"Most dire of situations" with lichbomb is indeed most dire of situations.
It doesn't hurt to not leave it open-ended, since the cost is actually far greater than it seems now.
"Most dire of situations" with lichbomb is indeed most dire of situations.
It doesn't hurt to not leave it open-ended, since the cost is actually far greater than it seems now.
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Nah, the situation here's fairly different. Here, we can say, completely honestly, that things are under control.
Madoka currently sees the decision not to contract purely in terms of "the personal consequences are too horrible to me for me to risk. I'm not brave enough to risk them."
Given she's a martyr waiting to happen personality-wise and has self-loathing issues, this really, really is less than ideal and we should fix it by trying to change the way she looks at it. Try and get her to see contracting as unhelpful and make it clear she's not a coward for not wanting to.
On the update,
We didn't get a chance to say that Mami only learned recently, which should be the first thing we mention.
Sayaka is really upset that she won't be able to heal her friend. I think she would be damning it a little less if we introduced the idea of healing Kyouske with magic.
The contracting is unhelpful idea is utterly worthless as an argument. The counterexamples are standing right there in front of her. Unless we take her aside and witchbomb her with Gretchen (lol), the argument that contracting doesn't help just doesn't hold water. Yes, there are consequences that are dire, but in the case that she'd be willing to ignore those consequences, telling her not to holds as much water as Homura yelling 'nooooooo'.
We can help Madoka's self worth without bringing up contracting at all. It doesn't make sense to do so in context here. What we need is a private chat with her, bringing up issues like how Mami dropped her entire life for MG stuff, how none of the three of us have families, how we weren't able to even come up with any conversation topics that didn't have anything to do with magic... how the three of us desperately need normality in our lives to keep us from being consumed with being child soldiers. I think that might appeal. But I doubt now is the right time. Maybe after dinner.
We didn't get a chance to say that Mami only learned recently, which should be the first thing we mention.
Sayaka is really upset that she won't be able to heal her friend. I think she would be damning it a little less if we introduced the idea of healing Kyouske with magic.
The contracting is unhelpful idea is utterly worthless as an argument. The counterexamples are standing right there in front of her. Unless we take her aside and witchbomb her with Gretchen (lol), the argument that contracting doesn't help just doesn't hold water. Yes, there are consequences that are dire, but in the case that she'd be willing to ignore those consequences, telling her not to holds as much water as Homura yelling 'nooooooo'.
We can help Madoka's self worth without bringing up contracting at all. It doesn't make sense to do so in context here. What we need is a private chat with her, bringing up issues like how Mami dropped her entire life for MG stuff, how none of the three of us have families, how we weren't able to even come up with any conversation topics that didn't have anything to do with magic... how the three of us desperately need normality in our lives to keep us from being consumed with being child soldiers. I think that might appeal. But I doubt now is the right time. Maybe after dinner.
...Let her keep thinking that she's a coward for not contracting in the face of consequences? Let her keep thinking that the only consequences are to her, personally? 
Why would we possibly do that when we can do our best to change the way she views it, and decrease her motivation to contract without revealing anything else? That's just...apathy for apathy's sake.
Contracting is unhelpful precisely BECAUSE of those examples. "We can handle it."
Stalling is not the answer. Yes, we want Madoka to act as Mami's friend/anchor. But that's completely unrelated to this.
Why would we possibly do that when we can do our best to change the way she views it, and decrease her motivation to contract without revealing anything else? That's just...apathy for apathy's sake.
Contracting is unhelpful precisely BECAUSE of those examples. "We can handle it."
Stalling is not the answer. Yes, we want Madoka to act as Mami's friend/anchor. But that's completely unrelated to this.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We have. A reminder seems to be in order, though.
Gretchen would seem to stop from contracting in the vast majority of situations. Of course, if she feels the need to contract anyway, she'll simply do it in a way that gets around Gretchen.
Definitely should come up in a private chat with Sayaka, yeah.
"He didn't tell us" and Mami's breakdown seem to cover the "Mami didn't know" angle well enough.
I think it probably should be approached from the other side: Not that contracting is unhelpful, but both that not contracting is helpful, and contracting is detrimental.
The self sacrifice issue is the belief that contracting is helpful, and the gain is worth the personal cost. Saying that contracting is unhelpful only feeds her insecurity issues — that even with a wish where she could make literally anything happen, she's still not helping anyone. We want her to understand that she can help people without using a wish, and that using a wish (not her specifically, but anyone in general) will probably do more harm than good, regardless of what she feels about the personal costs involved.
The problem, of course, is that that's not entirely true. Their entire world has benefited from the constant stream of wishes used throughout history. Or at least, it appears to have benefited. Actual benefit compared to a world without Incubator interference is almost impossible to judge.
But it's not a simple answer to a simple question, and requires knowledge that we don't want to be giving out freely, so instead we have to go the "lies to children" route (not quite as bad as it sounds).
The self sacrifice issue is the belief that contracting is helpful, and the gain is worth the personal cost. Saying that contracting is unhelpful only feeds her insecurity issues — that even with a wish where she could make literally anything happen, she's still not helping anyone. We want her to understand that she can help people without using a wish, and that using a wish (not her specifically, but anyone in general) will probably do more harm than good, regardless of what she feels about the personal costs involved.
The problem, of course, is that that's not entirely true. Their entire world has benefited from the constant stream of wishes used throughout history. Or at least, it appears to have benefited. Actual benefit compared to a world without Incubator interference is almost impossible to judge.
But it's not a simple answer to a simple question, and requires knowledge that we don't want to be giving out freely, so instead we have to go the "lies to children" route (not quite as bad as it sounds).
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Getting Madoka to feel useful is a mission and a half.
Sabrina's nature totally disproves that. She totally has a connection to another universe's Earth's internet and people there don't live in caves, despite the lack of incubators, aside from insane ones like Crasian.
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Kyubeyspin does mean that if I decided to build my home underground with sky light to save on heating, I'd be living in a cave.
Also, who's the "you" in that sentence? Is it just Madoka?
Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
Stupid question, but can we actually prove that? Incs are very good at keeping their presence hidden despite blaringly obvious things. So how can we rule out that they exist in some way here? Just curious, you seem so confident.
Kyubey's speech to Madoka in the final episodes.
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I'm aware, I'm referring to the loophole that it would refer to just Madoka, not humanity.
Gadjo
Doka
[X] Ugolino.
Also, stressing that the price is more than personal is very important to keeping Madoka from contracting right now. This'll deter her for awhile, but she'll find her spine again before long and then she'll disregard the personal cost. Honestly, I think the best solution would be to open up to her about the incubator system and our research into breaking it, but it's way too soon for that.
I always figured that Kyubey honestly believed that, but that he was just wrong. I took it as an opinion, which technically can't be a lie.
Also, stressing that the price is more than personal is very important to keeping Madoka from contracting right now. This'll deter her for awhile, but she'll find her spine again before long and then she'll disregard the personal cost. Honestly, I think the best solution would be to open up to her about the incubator system and our research into breaking it, but it's way too soon for that.
Where the heck is the little bunnycat anyway? You would think that this would be a good opportunity for him to show up and try to ruin everything.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Unless he has 'business elsewhere'.
You fool...you mentioned him!
Gadjo
Doka
About that: if you think the stuff we've been thinking about so far as the potential utility of our powers has been kind of crazy and OP, imagine what Kyubey has been coming up with. He might have already built an engine based on us as a power source, for all we know.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Eh, doubt Kyubey is able to hijack our powers that way, and if he could, the quest would be pretty much unwinnable. I was thinking about something else.
Or he could just be stalking us. Watching, waiting.
He does have multiple bodies, doesn't he? He can multi-task!
Gadjo
Doka
Yeah, also not his MO, but the point is that he might have been considering the shit we're capable of doing and putting in some kind of safeguards against it. I just consider time Kyubey spends not trolling us in person to be time he spends causing some serious problems for us later.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Yep. Firn's comment at the end is pretty damn ominous.
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- ⇙
Pretty much everything Firn says can count as ominous.
For all we know Kyubey is frolicking around contracting random girls left and right.
[] Ugolino
For all we know Kyubey is frolicking around contracting random girls left and right.
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