I think you could offer us some choices, an idea of what is on the table. In broad strokes, what are the possible priorities we can pursue that are actually different?
Everyone wants more and better orcs, but what are the opposing principles we need to choose from? What are the upsides and downsides of adhering or not adhering to said principles?
For example, the Burning Blade has been an amalgamation of numerous clans around the core of demon- worshippers -ology experts and martial prodigies. (I forgot, how did the Blademasters come to be, and how did Warlocks get the position they do now?)
There is no reason to assume it won't keep working forever, until you point it out. Like, say, numbers. Integrating a clan larger than ourselves would be like trying to assimilate China. It's more likely that the resulting clan would end up looking like them. But does the Burning Blade even have a strong identity to begin with, besides its attributes that we are trying to revive, such as Blademaster traditions?
This will be a somewhat longer answer so I'll break it down a bit and threadmark it. Feel free to ask followups and I can clarify points.
The Orcs emerged in Gorgrond, according to their cultiral history from the remnants of Grond the Collosal's brain. In reality it was somewhat more complicated and relates to the wider lineage of the Breakers, but the answer based on the death of Ymir is more interesting. After developing their society in Gorgrond, the Orcs migrated out, colonising other areas of Draenor. In each area communities developed unique cultural practices based on their surroundings, and subsequently carry these in Azeroth as their cultural history. Clans are kin-groups, wider communities of shared cultures and in some cases essentially professional associations. I've described this previously using the Marxist term of 'Primitive Communism', but really that's not entirely accurate because Orcish clans definitely have class structures for example.
Anyway, modern Azeroth clans exist in a sort of loose structure under the Warchiefs, which is a supra-national structure previously established to fight wars, and now just sort of a thing, with neither Thrall nor Rend desiring to return to the previous method of organisation. Depending on who you ask, some Orcs may not regard themselves strongly as part of a clan, or may have closer associations with the Horde in general etc. I've written about this before so let's try not to get too deep into it.
Also, quite clearly some clans have clearer associations than others, for example, it seems quite clear to me that the Burning Blade, Lightning Blade and Bladewind Clans are all linked, but also that they all likely descend from one of the very early cadet branches of the Blackrock.
Some clans are defined by differnet cultural practices which various people value. For example, the Thunderlords are acknoledged to be the finest beasthunters and tamers in the Horde. They transmit their technical knowledge through their cultural practices. In theory others could learn these, but in practice the sharing of clan secrets is likely a taboo. For example, to learn Oreseeking from the Blackrock you'd have to go join the Blackrock. Similarly, cultural differences mean professions will be practiced differently, with a Shadowmoon and Burning Blade warlock using differnet methods, even if both use Fel magic. Of the clans Grok's most relevant to currently:
- Burning Blade are defined previously as a small, esoteric, highly skilled clan who maintain the traditions of the Blademasters, which obviously Grok is now one of. In the modern Azeroth though they've expanded significantly in order to serve as one of the Burning Legion's advanced parties in future invasions, and they maintain the larger part of the Horde's warlocks and magical knowledge. They've also got a bit of a sideshow in magic research, but it's not a major part of the clan.
- Blackrock are and have always been the largest and most powerful clan. They practice significantly stronger heirachy, discipline, organisation and technological reliance, as well as having older stuff in elemental and shamanistic practices. Under Rend and the Black Dragons, the Blackrock have become 'more' in all these things, for example Rend requires greater organisation and heirachal segregation, while the Blacks ahve shared some of their elemental knowledge.
- Dragonmaw are beastriders, once they were on Rylaks, now they're on dragons, their way of warfare is based on aerial combat and probably scouting too, but they're extremely focused and specialised around dragons and the riding of dragons.
- Warsong are an organised warlike clan, representing the cavalry force of the Horde and having the specialisations there. The Warsong in the Eastern Kingdoms though seem to be some who got left behind by Grom Hellscream, so maybe they were just too far away to go get etc.
- Demonsword, a strange mix of Burning Blade and Blackrock, defined mostly by their really unusual practices using the Fel, as well as the cultural mein of Jubei'thos and Haomarush who bring some of the older idea of personal discipline etc. Unusually the Demonsword also practice things like Fel infusion still, as well as eugenicist filicide and polygamy.
- New Clan, as written about before more of an amalgamation of orcs. Not necessarily low quality, but yet to form a distinct cultural identity or really receive political representation in the Horde in the same way the other clans do. Not even a jack of all trades, but certainly not a master of anything in particular. The ones from Hammerfall specifically who Grok is dealing with are especially poor specimins as theyve got a lot of crippled orcs and have suffered a lot of demographic disturbance.
This brings us to Grok's situation. Currently only his direct warband of about 600 orcs (+dependants) have specifically sworn to follow him. The rest are the Demonsword who follow him as a vigorous and visonary leader and due to Haomarush's obedience, as well as the random pockets of Orcs Grok has hoovered up from around the Eastern Kingdoms, like those from Hammerfall who don't really have anywhere to go and need protection. While this state of affairs can potentially continue, it's quite brittle beacuse it relies on Grok being on hand to give orders etc. While he might not be questioned, lets say he left to do something for a few months, then things might just grind to a halt without him to mediate disputes etc.
Cultures are changing though. In Alterac 15 for example Grok is addressed using a demonic salute by a new warrior in his warband. Who taught this warrior the salute? Presumably it's been transmitted by people who believe Grok woudl approve of it. Similarly, while they've not mixed much yet, at some point someone might take up the practice of polygamy, or ask Grok to supervise a Fel infusion of their child, again because these are seen as acceptable cultural practices. Grok walks around with a Fel Orc at his side, that gives some credence to the idea that actually he's fine with the Fel, even if he doesn't practice it himself. Comparably, Grok associated with other races and is on reasonably friendly terms with them, which would reduce the levels of racial superiority which sometimes creep into the Horde (see Garrosh for example). If you take the Breakers' action that will start to lead to the codification of Dark Shamanism, which Grok being a fairly benevolent guy, will take in a different direction than Garrosh's Kor'kron did for example.
Grok is to an extent limited by his culture as well. He cannot endorse certain things, it's just not in his personality. For example, he cannot proclaim himself as chief while his father is still chief. Other things he just doesn't care about. However, in the absence of a cohesive cohort of elders in Alterac to moderate cultural swings Grok is the most important influence on these sorts of things.
This takes us to what Grok wants to do. Being an educated guy he knows about the previous political organisation of the Horde, he knows about clan structure and about the various benefits of these things, and he's also outgoing enough that he knows about how the human kingdoms operate (though he still doesn't entirely understand stuff like currency).
His advisors are bugging him to make decisions, but these decisions aren't really clear cut, which is why I don't want to put it to a vote and just have people decide. I'd rather you all engage with this stuff and I as GM take those thoughts and put them in actions.
I think, in character, Grok doesn't necessarily have a desire to absorb everyone into the Burning Blade. His conception of the Horde is one of many relatively free and diverse clans, under a strong Warchief. I think Grok would definitely take ideas from the humans, and would end up with somelike like Garrosh's orgaisation, though different for many reasons. Comparably, you look at Garrosh for example and the Iron Horde, and see that Garrosh attempts to subordinate various clans under the Warsong, because he's proud to be Warsong, but also absorbs a lot of the warlike Blackrock practices. If the Iron Horde had been longer lived I think you'd have seen some of the smaller clans also get surbordinated and homogenised under the same cultural ideals of warlike conquest and industrialisation.
As such, here are some scenarios for reflection and discussions:
Reform in human fashion: push elements of human feudal organisation into Grok's Horde, similar to how IRL the English colonised the Irish clans and brought them into the English political and economic organisation. Push currency, literacy, codify religion and cultural practices, subordinate clan organisation to formal legal arrangements based on human laws, further stratify and develop class structures, proclaim Grok king and seek acknoledgement from human monarchs. This probably the least desirable option, but I include it for comparison.
Atavism: Reform polity backwards, to earlier forms of Horde. Reestablish stratified clan structures, importance of shaman as leadership class, traditional practices and attitudes. Rhetorically powerful as a call to the traditional structure, but not desireable either because there's a reason those cultural practices were abolished.
Status Quo: Maintain current ambiguous course. No political effort required, but likely further pushes into the areas I've mentioned, eg smaller clans being broken down over time. Likely to reach equilibrium over time, but not without losses in unique cultural practices etc.
Structured Development: Pursue more aggresively and effectively some of the policies Thrall and Rend are trying. For example the creation of a stronger federal system, a national army etc.
The project of nation building is too large and complex and issue for me to just leave it to votes, so it'll have to be developed over time through actions.
I've had to come back to this as I went to do some stuff. Can't remember my train of thought from previosly, so I'll just say in general that nationbuilding depends on what objective you want to acheive. I personally if I was in Grok's position could think of plenty of things to do. For example, if you want 'more and better orcs' then you could better regulate honour culture. Honour stuff is useful and worthy but it needs to be controlled and channeled. For example, you could better established rules for the Mak'gora, or you could define honour as being a wider objective ideal rather than a personal 'face saving' thing.
To an extent this sort of thing is your responsibility to establish. What do you want to acheive, and what sorts of results do you anticipate? This is the same as any action, you must consider the effects of it, though as ever I'm also happy to remark on various things.
In terms of immediate affairs, the issues around internal stability will become more important over time. Grok's unclear political rank will become more of an issue, the inherant aggression of Orcish culture will continue to become an issue. Grok can't declare himself chief currently, his personality doesn't allow it. However, people are still treating him as one. Similarly, he's a defacto warchief because he's an orc to whom multiple clans pledge featly. The simplest solution to all of this would be to get permission from Feldad to be a co-chief, or full chief of the Burning Blade, givne that Feldad would indeed be ok with this, and then to integrate most of the New Clan from Hammerfall, to retrieve the Warsong and set them up as outriders again with a proper chief, to get Vark and his Ogres, to get some trolls, and to subjugate Alterac to the needs of Grok's Horde. Most of the ALliance would be ok with this as long as you're fighting their enemies, and then yknow go do that. While this is going on there's various things which could be done. I've got various ideas, but I also thought I'd check with an AI to see what they thought:
To address the weaknesses in Orc culture, several reforms and nation-building projects could be considered:
- Leadership and Mediation: Establish a system of leadership that emphasizes conflict resolution and mediation over brute force. Leaders should be chosen for their wisdom and diplomacy, in addition to their combat skills.
- Legal Framework: Develop a legal framework that addresses honor disputes and ensures a fair and impartial process for resolving conflicts. This could involve the creation of a council or court of respected elders.
- Cultural Exchange: Encourage cultural exchange programs with other races in Azeroth to broaden the Orcs' perspectives and reduce isolationism. Exposure to different cultures can help temper aggression and promote cooperation.
- Education and Skill Development: Invest in education and skill development beyond combat training. This can help Orcs diversify their talents and contribute to society in non-martial ways.
- Resource Management: Implement sustainable resource management practices to prevent resource-driven conflicts within the Orc society. This could involve the establishment of trade networks or agreements with neighboring factions.
- Alliance Building: Forge alliances with other races and factions that share common interests and values. This can provide Orcs with political and military support, reducing the likelihood of internal strife and external threats.
These are all fairly sensible ideas, even if they do fall into ChatGTP's tendency toward Whig History.
None of the above would require Grok to formally declare his candidacy for Warchief, and indeed they may not benefit from such a thing. THe intentional ambigutity of Grok's position is one he can definitely use, though eventually yea someone is going to call him out on it. Alterac is a really good opportunity to assure the growth of Grok's polity/faction/clan, but that does require some thought to get the best results.
Oh and I forgot to mention stuff about integration adn pros and cons. Basically, again it depends what you want. The Demonsword have a really weird culture, it would be weird to a lot of orcs too, and probably wouldn't go great if they tried to share it out with others because they don't have the history and you might just end up with a load of fel orcs running about without the discipline Haomarush has implemented.
Integrating the New Clan into the Burning Blade would be fine and has few downsides. For example, one part of such an action might be to equip and train them n a shared identity, another part might be for Grok to officiate funerals with his Firecalling abilities, which would be a prestigious gift. Similar to if you were a Catholic and a Cardinal turned up and did your grandparent's funeral, you'd be honoured etc (presumably, I'm not a catholic).
Your opposing principles are diversity vs conformity, heirachy vs equality, fluidity vs fomality, specialisation vs generalism.
This should prompt some discusison anyway. I might write some more about it subsequently, but I hope this answers some questions. Happy to discuss more if there's follow ups though.
Can these two be combined? Though I suppose this depends if Grok is ok letting the Kirin Tor know of the demon gate which I see nothing wrong with if only to keep the place guarded.
Probably not? They're not really similar?
