isn't the entire practice of light as a religion a result of the same mysticism and inspiration as the orcs are undergoing
One issue is that we don't have consistent or clear information about religious development in this fictional world. The Light gets developed and promogated in concert with the expansion of the Arathi Empire and rapidly becomes a universal religion, except in the most provincial regions which maintain some folk traditions (eg the harvest witches of Gilneas). We may assume that the human religion was largely like the Orcish one, being in touch with the natural forces and spirits of the world etc. However, we must also understand that the Church of the Holy Light was created probably as a state building project, and that the Arathi just like in real life used the Church to bolster their state capacity, with priests acting as bureacrats and administrators until we get the system of national churches which we see in 'modern' Warcraft.
To an extent Dawnblade is being a classic elf and is presenting himself and his culture as superior to others given that Quel'thalas were sort of colonised by the Light. Dawnblade is ignoring the basis of the original Church and is not necessarily arguing from a position of historical legitimacy. I'm also though integrating other traditions where there's been splits over inspiration vs philosophy based schisms, like the Mu'tazilism / Ash'arism debates in early Islam which basically discussed whether a Muslim could acheive understanding through philosophical contemplation or through divine inspiration.
However, I would not categorise the process the orcs are going through as the same really. Thrall (as the main spiritual leader) doesn't have the level of authority or centralisation needed to define doctrine and doesn't really have the personal ability to do such a thing. He's trained as a warrior and a shaman and as we've discussed extensively in this quest although he's tried to put in reforms he's not really been successful. The Orcs seem to have some religious organisation but it's very ad hoc. Elders and shaman seem to come togehter sometimes to discuss religious matters or try and do big spells and Blackhand's statebuilding project is one element of this, but we still see it as a non-religious project which is heavily damaged by all the shaman becoming warlocks.
Dawnblade is therefore both historically incorrect, but politically correct in his criticisms. The Orcs are still vulnerable to cultural issues, just as Dawnblade rants about.
@FractiousDay In case I missed it what seemed to be the room's reactions to dawnblade's comments, if Grok was paying attention? I'm sure he'd have gotten a fairly standing ovation about any other orc, but any other orc wouldn't be standing here right now...cept maybe Thrall?
I was writing with ti in mind that Grok is being pretty introspective here and isn't really paying as much attnetion to the crowd behind him, other than the occasional remarks on them in the chapter. In general, everyone important there is aware of Grok and a lot of them have fought with him. He's pretty famous and has gone firmly into 'respected ally' even if he's not someone they're necessarily inviting for dinner. Dawnblade is indeed a deliberate choice by Dathrohan to show such an extreme stance as to look silly and potentially also emphasise Quel'thelas' failure to sort themselves out without help from the Scarlets. Many of the people might agree that Orcs are indeed pretty savage and they don't really like them and would rather they not be around, but they also know Grok's contributions and know that they'll need help in Northrend.
gonna be honest don't think any other orc would stand there even thrall cause this is a group of zealots and racists who we have semi bonds with cause of groks hard work with them
Look I know I'm hard on the guy, but I'm pretty sure if there's any Orc that they'd give the time of day too it's him. + lets be real this is a situation he's more suited for anyway.
Thrall probably has a lot more pride. He's not had as many setbacks, but he also just is a lot more reactionary. Grok is pretty contemplative, for an Orc, and isn't as wed to realpolitik as Thrall.
There is a lot of talk from a group that can't notice a dreadlord 5 cm away/joke
Who knows maybe it involves zapping a certain high crusader with light and discovering the bat winged bastard beneath.
We must assume of course that he's able to resist such a thing. I write him as competent, so he's able to resist Light stuff or being around Light stuff or just avoid it, as he does here by claiming he's spiritually stunted or whatever. He might also say that the Libram he was swearing on was a fake, for example, beacuse how can he possibly risk such a precious artefact? Better to put it in a vault surely etc.
The genuine problem though is Balnazar is doing a...lets be frank frustratingly fantastic job in most regards.
Indeed Balnazar is frustratingly competent. It shows just how insidious Dreadlords are.
I'm quite amused at this. I'm glad he comes across as that as indeed I would like to write characters legitimately rather than as charicatures of a cackling demon guy etc.
How can we stop dancing to Datrohan's tune "for our own good, or else" as naturally dictated by the circumstances?
While I'm consious of the frustration this may cause as a result of the information difference between readers and Grok, I would also hope its fairly realistic. Indeed, even if the Crusade is unsuccessful, Balnazzar may still succeed because he's weakened all parties and that's ultimately advantageous for the Legion. The best way to fail is by removing the possibilities of not succeeding in your aims.
I'm not sure of meeting one of the hostile judges. I get the intent but does Dawnblade feel the same way?
He'd at least be willing to talk to you, certainly Grok's actions have given him that level of tolerance. It woudl also be quite novel for Dawnblade so that might draw him in.
@FractiousDay despite the going at it alone option, would he have someone with him as a companion just to keep watch? I get the feeling he'll also find someone else that'll pay the shrine a visit. Maybe a random hermit or even Tirion.
So as a religious individual, prayer etc for Grok is worth it in and of itself, but yes I had something specific in mind for such an option.
