Kinda irrelevant. Forneus' transition from the elemental plane to Azeroth was destructive just like Rag's was, I assume powerful elementals like that can't go through without an extensive ritual or reasonable amounts of destruction. Deathwing and therefore Ony is obviously interested in this because that's exactly what he wants to achieve.
mmm.
I'd argue that the important difference is that both were being summoned for fighting explicitly. So a bit like an infernal dive bombing the earth it makes sense to turn even your emergence into a board clearer. Certainly there's examples of elementals of a similar level to Forneas emerging without causing widespread devestation (first one that springs to mind is Siamat, Lord of the South Winds.)
+ For all that she may wish it, there's a pretty big problem with comparing Deathwing to Forneas, that he isn't an elemental, but a dragon.
Forneas presumably has the "biology" to allow himself to be summoned, but Deathwing in canon had no other option but to blast his way out through deepholm and out the vortex.
That's a fair criticism I think, I'll make a fairly unstructured response for some of it with some thoughts.
I'll fully admit that I'm playing this particular thing as humour and an in joke about Whitemane's clothing, but equally I do have various opinions about fantasy sexuality. Firstly I think races as diverse as most fantasy settings have would be sufficiently different that Species A wouldn't be attracted to Species B under normal circumstances. LotR elves are supposed to be all ethereal, beautiful yes, but weird and not something which someone would say they'd be attracted to.
There's also a point on creationism. Lots of fantasy races (eg most of those in WoW) are created by the Titans. I assume the titans put in their coding 'breed with only your own species'. I would argue this could extrapolate to the feelings of various people on the subject, for example of things like homosexuality, I assume people would be even more homophobic because they'd have various cultural legends which would potentially be more easily verifiable about how the gods created two sexes and therefore anything that went against that was bad for whatever reason.
Also why I don't like how sexuality is represented in some other mediums. For example, something like WFB is meant to be various medival/renaissance things turned up to 11, and there's Slannesh who's all about weird sex stuff, I assume in such a world that sodomy would be even more harshly prosecuted and not tolerated at all like it sometimes was irl. Canonically the people of the Empire are suspicious of people with red hair, yet some authors which I'll not mention represent the Empire as being this cosmopolitan bastion where homosexuality is actually basically fine.
There's certainly ways you could do it, integrate various things in like having more focus on the sexual relationships of gods like TES sometimes does, but yes it's not really something I'm interested in representing in this fic. There's an open question of whether Grok would be noticing people currently given his various preoccupations. I enjoy worldbuilding and I like bringing in various realistic consequences of things. I've got war rape and a victim of said in my other quest, and I've got cannibalism in both that one and this quest (the 'unnamed meats' you were eating after Dreadmist), but generally sexuality isn't something I tend to focus on. Indeed, fantasy as a genre doesn't tend to focus on that sort of thing either. Garona and the Mok'Nathal are both products of deliberate rape, when the Orcs take Karabor they're narrated as abusing Draenei corpses in various ways, which might include sexual acts or might not, I can certainly see (some given their generally good treatment) Orc women being abused in the internment camps as per the treatment of Jewish women in concentration camps, but it's generally not been something the various companies who produce games like WoW are interested in. Apparently there's a gay couple in Ardenweald but they changed it for China? Haven't played it so not really sure.
Also to any mods, I've had an open ticket on how much genocide I'm allowed in my stories, any guidance on that or on representing the above things given the 'no hate toward fictional peoples' rule?
Oh and to answer the original premise, given I intend this to be a fairly long quest, there's the potential for love interests. There's not that many canon orc women who'd be of sufficient social rank to be potential partners (which presumably would be important), but some of them would be Zaela, Azuka Bladefury, Kaz the Shrieker. I could obviously also invent one.
I mean it is the kind of thing that does deserve a fair bit of ribbing.
And I do think that is fair, its just its something that needs to be established in some way and its usually not done properly. (LOTR elves however ain't the best example considering how important half-elves are to the over all plot even if they are very rare and that its the love stories and the effects there of between two different pairs of elf/human romances that arguably drives most of the plot in the latter bits of the Silmarilion.)
mmm...defo disagree on this one.
For a start the titans did not create the races of Azeroth, they created the entirely metallic or stone creatures like the Valkryr or Earthen who by my understanding are entirely incapable of reproduction like that. Not that those creations
don't have at least romantic interests, Thorim married the Iron Valkyr Sif. And implied sexual ones as Sif would go on to have an affair with Loken (who killed her and said she was
actually having an affair with the king of the giants!)
Point none of those involved were the same race, we have one ancestor to humans, 2 keepers and apparently a giant is believable!
Even then none of the fleshy races that emerged after the "curse" remember the titans, humans have dim legends of a big king man, but that's about it. It might explain the lack of human/dwarf/gnome pairings, but they'd have no creationism whatever telling them not to have relations with say the trolls who evolved naturally and then elves from trolls and so on. And while they don't pop up regularly hybrid are certainly a thing with the two most notable couples being (ironically I suppose) the Windrunner sisters.
Veressa and Rhonin, who have two children
Alleria and Tularyon also a child this one an adult.
Ironically the only one who doesn't have a confirmed non-elven lover is Sylvanus (it is merely heavily implied
) who got into a world of trouble because people thought she was with Nathanos.
Even then none that creationism would apply to orcs in any case.
Ok that's WHF, its lore is a mess that goes back decades where mixing and matching these things is entirely fine and a lot of the time you can make even the inconsistencies work.
Just to go on the Slaanesh point, no not necessarily. WHF is not a setting dominated by chaos (at least it wasn't) in the same way. It'd be entirely IC to have a Witch Hunter consider it a sign of Slaanesh, but also for them to be entirely incorrect. Similarly the red hair thing dates back to the grim derp days of 3E, nowadays its a superstitious thing primarily in Nordland, which is due to racism.
To go onto what I think you're getting at, well I think that's just cause the quest has called, but frankly there's logic too it even without GW awkwardly changing things.
Ishernos has been around for ages now, and although they may have severed as a progenitor god to the later Taal and Rheya I think its far from unreasonable to make an explanation for how two of the biggest gods of the empire would have been associated with homosexuality and later protection of that sexuality in some parts of the empire.
Of course if you
want to bring up the full implications of being gay in WHF then you can easily retool the setting to make it much harsher in that regard. Big advantage of the setting is that it is intensely modular.
And yeah I wasn't trying to imply that it was a big part of the setting nor should it be, merely wanted to clarify if its just Grok just doesn't think about these sorts of things at all for anyone, which I assume is the case. He's got too much on his mind to be admiring anyone's legs no matter how muscled
Well they call it World of Warcraft for a reason lol. That's something to worry about once the Burning Legion and the Void Lords are defeated.
Yeah, but that's cause Cottique wants money, not because it makes any form of sense
However my point wasn't that there won't be some kind of threat, its that sometimes there won't be a threat in time. If your society is built around taking aggression out on others, and an acceptable target doesn't emerge in say 5 years then eventually they're going to target the non acceptable ones.
Vark's father Tagar is a Mok'Nathal, making Vark a quarter ogre. We have no idea how the genes for such species work though, so Vark might be just as half-ogre as his father. The Mok'Nathal, being bred as warslaves of the Bladespire Ogres, seem to have said no to war after they were liberated, and most of them stayed in Outland, so their pacificism does indeed predate the BC expansion
Yeh.
I doubt the idea of the horde settling down into something peaceful is doable when this affects more than just Grok's clan. Right now he's countering what Eitrig views and is doubling down on the legacy of the breakers which means more and more fighting as he refines that direction of fighting.
That is the truth given to him. I checked what the breakers are and it's not as clearcut. From each descendant of a breaker as they split off to their children's children they are not obedient to their ancestor and would even fight them which I doubt he knows the whole story when it's passed word of mouth from creation myths.
If he wants to be more steadfast in his views and future goals he must see the past and understand it preferably with the help of the bronze dragons.
They were a warlike people before and used the elements to destroy many ogres in their capital city which was to be fair self defense when he unleashed a bio weapon on them called the red pox so the elements agreed to massacre the ogres in the capital becuase their leader would tap into their elemental place of power and risk destabilising the planet's ecosystem with their reckless arcane experimentation. It freaked out the shamans with the intensity of the power who disbanded the pseudo horde of the day until Guldan restarted it. It was the slow corruption and the demon blood that culminated into fullblown bloodlust they turned on each other with no more enemies to fight other while the world was dying as the period they call the Dying Time until Medivh and Guldan opened the dark portal.
I mean you could make a narrative out of the Grond that his goal was to defeat the wildgrowth then stop becoming the world's protector. But even then that's not really viable for a species, its barely viable for an individual. And the full story is likely muddled, but I would presume the orcs originally learned it from the furies that live out of Grond's head (the throne of the elements.) Also the whole descendend from Grond thing is weird cause they insist they emerged from his corpse, but that doesn't really make much sense unless its a lot more abstracted seeing the line of breaker descendents as progressively smaller bits of corpse.
And warlike yes, but not war full. That said you're getting the time line of that war mixed up.
1. Orcs emerge from underground, find the throne turn it into a temple, learn of the elements.
2. Ogres see Orcish shamen, go investigate the throne cause massive elemental damage in their experiments.
3. Pseudo horde is formed to stop them.
4. Ogres release the red pox stopping the horde from taking them down conventionally.
5. Lacking other options the shamen then call on the elements to destroy the city.
6. Freak out disband.
In general I don't think it was a slow corruption at all until Gul'dan came along. The orcs certainly held the potential to do this, and to be extremely cruel and evil without and pushes from him, but to use Grok's metaphore of a balancing beam he did shove them off it even if they were leaning in that direction.
I'm flexible on the love interests. I have no stake in the shipping.
No stake in shippin, I suppose at most I want to keep Grok's mind open?
I'm not sure there's a way to put that which doesn't sound creepy.
Targorr the Dread, executioner of the Blackrock Clan, and 20 Blackrock orcs
As I feared...
OH YOU BASTARD
I KNEW THAT NAME WAS FAMILIAR!
Kalaran is a drake of the black dragonflight. His humanoid form is a human male named Kalaran Windblade.
wowpedia.fandom.com
I should not be so upset to have a dragon riding side saddle!
I suppose rejoice we got "THE ANNIHILATOR!"
Edit: No seriously that is his title.
