It started way back when the high elves settled on land the trolls considered sacred and the rest is history.
Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
Remarks on Troll revanchism
- Location
- United Kingdom
It's somewhat unclear how that ability works, but I'm fairly sure it'll be an Arcane thing. That might be operated in some sort of ritual form as apparently Magni found the special 'make me a diamond' spell in the basement or something.
This would be more difficult for the Orcs because they're not really familiar with Arcane magic, and the spell might not work for Grok. It would be like trying to run a PC program on a Playstation etc, yes they're both electronic devices but they're different operating systems.
However, the Orcs do have shamanism, and they did contribute to the Twilight Hammer's elemental ascendency, so yes it's a thing they can do. This is a spell in the game for example: "Transform into a Flame Ascendant for 15 sec, replacing Chain Lightning with Lava Beam, removing the cooldown on Lava Burst, and increasing the damage of Lava Burst by an amount equal to your critical strike chance."
The Trolls are extremely revanchist in general. They used to own the world and they've never really gotten over that. For example, the Night Elves could credibly claim the whole of modern Kalimdor, given that they did indeed occupy the entirety of it some time ago. They seem to have voluntarily retreated from most areas into the north around Hyjal and subsequently Teldrassil.
However, they could say with a lot of places that they've not even been gone that long (given their comparatively long lives) and that they should be allowed back etc and the Tauren or whoever should leave.
Anyway we're getting away from the point. The point being that the 4 major troll polities, the Drakkari, Gurubashi, Amani and Zandalar are all remnants of more powerful polities. Their history and the wider troll history is one of constant and steady decline, with various attempts to seek out extraordinary power to revive themselves, then that failing badly and one of their cities exploding or something. This ends up with them starting to sacrifice their own gods to try and keep themselves afloat.
For the Amani in particular they've been pushed back over hundreds of years by the humans and elves, leading them to lose a lot of influence over their allied tribes. They join up with the Horde in the Second War with the condition that Doomhammer will march against Quel'thalas, but Doomhammer still can't get past the elven defences so he just marches away and loses the war in his next battle. The Amani hatred toward the elves though is so great they continue the siege and are defeated and driven back by the elves.
As a topical comparison, you could look at other revanchist conflicts where both sides feel they own a bit of land and focus a lot of cultural energy around it, for example, the Rhineland or Israel/Palestine. Yes there's routes to peace, but ultimately it requires a cultural effort for one party to give up their claim to the land or to otherwise fundamentally alter their perception of their strategic situation.
The Darkspear do actually do this though. They left the Gurubashi lands and have now associated their identity with the Horde. Vol'jin explicitly rejects the call to arms in BC, but I've also represented characters like Vok'fon who are indeed interested in competing political ideologies.
There are indeed therefore troll polities who would be willing to engage with elves, however it's very difficult. You're not going to convince Zul'jin though, the Blood Elves tortured him, cut out his eye and he was so determined he cut off his own arm to escape their captivity.
In regards to Grok treating with trolls though, yea he's fine with it really. It's not so much a problem for him to engage with them because he's not entirely associated with the Alliance yet. He could walk up to the Amani gates now and have a chat with them and Zul'jin would be interested in talking to him.
You may indeed want to go chat to Zul'jin to explain the situation with the Revantusk and Vilebranch, but you've not gone about exterminating trolls, you've engaged them in a limited fashion and have done so because Grok felt compelled by honour to do so.
So this is an interesting idea, the problem is though that this quest has been going for about 3 years now and there's just not enough reader engagement to trust that it would work, so I'm unwilling to do it.
I did all the binary choices with the Alterac mini arc for example because I wanted that to improve reader participation. I wanted to get more people to vote for things but we can't even reach 10% participation, even when there's just the decision between 2 options. This is quite frustrating for me so I'm not really willing to put lots of work into it only to have 2 people work on it and develop a plan.
I'm open to considering this further, but if I were to implement such a system I'd want to make sure people actually respect it.
I had doubts he'd change his mind.
Still worth a talk if only to be a third wheel and manage troll relations for Vok'fon's sake.
- Location
- barking
I guess you could argue zul'jin is ready to fight for his holy land even if it kills every amani (and it almost does in cannon)
- Location
- United Kingdom
I think the only thing that would convince him would be a greater threat or higher priority at a particular time. But that wouldn't reduce his desire to go kill the High Elves, it would just put it off a bit.
I suppose in theory he might be more chill with elves if they provided a lot of aid. Like if the C'Thrax general under Zul'Aman woke up and devastated the Amani, and then the elves came and helped out then maybe Zul'jin would be willing to alter his position and so on.
If you'd chosen the Quel'thalas option there would have been a lot more opportunity for interaction with them and this particular conflict though.
I don't imagine Zul'jin being any bit receptive to an accord with elves. The way I see it Grok while definitely receptive to the Alliance would be more moulded on his view of the elves by his troll allies.
Grok might get reminded of what the centaur said about the arrival of the orcs to settle even if the centaur fails to mention they were driving the tauren to extinction.
Oh.... is that where it first started?
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
If you mean the Breaker thing, not directly. Certainly Grok would have been familiar with the creation myths of his own people before that. However, his deliberate identification with the Breakers and the legacy of Grond perhaps stemmed from around this time and his interactions with Forneus etc.
But for example, Vark has also been identified as a 'breaker' because he killed a centaur in a impressive way. Vark doesn't necessarily care about a long term political or philosophical, or indeed an ethnic ideology.
So in comparison with even a large and strong human, Grok would be intimidating. He's tall (for a human), and he's got the build of a guy who swings a sword about a lot. However to an Orc yea he's still pretty small.
AI Grok
I do also wonder how many things he'll do to keep leaning into the Breaker legacy. Make more songs, ceremonial festivals, religious symbols ,wardances etc.
Like all that music from Republic Commando if you ever played it.
edit:
I'm just messing around thanks to the bing AI art generator with help from chat gpt using this prompt:
It honestly is pretty impressive as to what Grok may look like now.
@FractiousDay what do you think? Like some of their features that you can imagine Grok to look like?
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
These are very cool. I'd thought about maybe comissioning some artwork eventually, but haven't really thought to do so yet. I've also been playing about with AI but I think it's just quite difficult to get it to properly remember stuff and make the AI be precise about particular things.
Of the pictures you've got I think the most relevant would be the last. He's got the flames and the tattoos, but I'd also note some changes perhaps.
I've been trying to get such things into an AI but didn't really work so nevermind I supose. These would be:
A cluster of amulets around his neck (Mightstone, bloodstone amulet, a fire opal he got from the Demonsword clan, and maybe a fang or something from the first animal he hutned)
He's got his elemtium bracer (I tried to get this to be represented as an irridescent metal but as I say Ai didn't really work for it)
The Fireblade itself I've described in various ways, but I imagine it more as a glaive than a sword. It's made of obsidian, or of a dark, crystaline metal so it doesn't necessarily look like a sword.
The magic fire would be golder given Grok uses the Light in his attacks too
I've also presented him as having a topknot or a braid
Usually he'd not be wearing much but he could be represented with a fur jacket or something if it's cold
Perhaps the most important point I suppose would be that I'd represent him as being less 'savage'. You might say 'oh maybe his skin is darker green tham some people because he's been around Fel magic so much' or something, but I'd note that I've always presented him as being an extremely controlled person, he wouldn't be snarling at an enemy I don't think. I'd also represent him as being rather more lithe than the usual brutish build Orcs have.
He's got his elemtium bracer (I tried to get this to be represented as an irridescent metal but as I say Ai didn't really work for it)
The Fireblade itself I've described in various ways, but I imagine it more as a glaive than a sword. It's made of obsidian, or of a dark, crystaline metal so it doesn't necessarily look like a sword.
The magic fire would be golder given Grok uses the Light in his attacks too
I've also presented him as having a topknot or a braid
Usually he'd not be wearing much but he could be represented with a fur jacket or something if it's cold
Perhaps the most important point I suppose would be that I'd represent him as being less 'savage'. You might say 'oh maybe his skin is darker green tham some people because he's been around Fel magic so much' or something, but I'd note that I've always presented him as being an extremely controlled person, he wouldn't be snarling at an enemy I don't think. I'd also represent him as being rather more lithe than the usual brutish build Orcs have.
It's all a work in progress.
But very quest enhancing.
If you read an adventure game book you might have one of those illustrations to make it cooler.
Now in quests you can make it easier to do it when you want to pad out a scene.
If fans like a quest they might spend some money or draw a commission of some scenes which is always appreciated for participation but with AI art the participation can be done faster or even get modified art because the AI art generator isn't perfect.
Last edited:
Rambling about AI art and the potential for information presentation in fiction
- Location
- United Kingdom
So I'll take the opportunity to ramble a bit here regarding my opinions on this.
In some IRL books or indeed other fiction, people do present pictures or illurstrations in their stories to enhance the reader's experience. They might do this to evoke a particular image, or to provide information eg in a map.
I think, for example that the map of Middle Earth is a useful map because it lets the reader situate themselves. If the movements of people across a map are significant within the story then a map is useful. However, you might equally say that supplementary resources are a failure of the author to provide adequate information for the reader.
There are some more and less famous images. Classic 40k stuff is well known, Dinotopia's illurstrations are, that sort of thing. I don't think anyone would accuse those IPs of being lazy, the images are supplementary.
However, I do notice a lot in fanfics that pepole do tend to be quite lazy sometimes with this sort of thing. The chocie of an image to represent something is still a creative choice by teh fan author, which is fine, but you do see a lot people saying 'they saw a castle' and then instead of describing a castle they just put a picture in of a castle. Sometimes, espeically on FFnet you'll have very inexperienced authors just writing directions to the audience, or describing things with reference to real world properties when it's inappropriate to do so.
There are some creative uses of these, for example in the With This Ring story the author uses coloured speech marks and words to denote high emotions. I personally didn't really like this, I did think it was somewhat lazy instead of describing what the person is doing. However, if the POV can see emotions using his magic powers then sure I can get how maybe that could be represented like that. Problem is though, I've seen other authors using this instead of actual description. Compare, for example,
'he hissed'
'he muttered sullenly'
"I am angry"
These all convey different things with the nuance of descriptions.
Another example I suppose is when you've got a daemon or cthulu speaking and they use that font which messes up the words to imply that the demon's language is so indesciperable as to be unreadable to the author as well as the reader.
But again its lazy. When Tolkein describes Black Speech he describes it as painful to hear, he doesn't just scribble on the page.
I'm just looking through LotR now and the writing is really very good in places:
This is an excellent description. Elrond is a limnal figure, he's stuck between life and death, involvement in the world and just sailing away to Valinor, he's young and old, wise and fighty. I suppose, in theory, a picture could convey this... But I would struggle to imagine what one might look like. The films didn't capture this either. Elrond is clearly a wise guy but he doesn't have the same limnal qualities. Galadriel though maybe.
On the discord I made that AI picture of Feldad giving Grok the Fireblade. That's meant to be a tender scene certainly. Grok gets back from being exiled, Feldad is pleased with the whole situation as Grok has proved himself a worthy son etc. In the actual chapter there's not a lot of narration, it's mostly talking, however before when Grok wakes up there was a lot of narration and description about how Feldad is relived etc. This contrasts from when Feldad was being quite nasty initially because Grok wasn't satisfying his expectations.
Bringing it back, I could indeed have just put an AI pic in that scene. I do think the one generated was quite good but I also fundamentally disagree with the idea that we should push ahead with the integration of AI stuff into works. While there's not necessarily a moralistic element here and therefore talk of 'laziness' isn't relevant, I do think that aspiring creators should try to build their skills. If people rely on chatgtp to write stuff they'll never build the skills or techniques that authors use.
Then again, maybe I'm just being a bit of a purist about such things. I think it can be quite lazy, but maybe others are fine with it.
I do agree on this point though with less skepticism. Yes it is indeed very cool, and I think could lead to significant creative endeavours. It is indeed very quick to plug some stuff into an AI to create, without the need to set the scene really. This will be of advantage to some creators.
Last edited:
I'm going to eventually have Grok go breaker state and see what it looks like.
Last edited:
Hinterlands Interlude 3
- Location
- United Kingdom
Greetings again all, I did the 50k writing challenge for November, but as I've now written the 50k I wanted to update this. Regular updates will now resume. I might skip over some points rather than writing 8k as I have for this Hinterlands action, but we'll see.
Hinterlands Interlude 3
You were a bannered Blademaster, flanked by two Fel Orcs. None within the village had the rank to impede you and indeed many saluted as you passed.
These were warriors you saw. There were few females among them and every orc bore weapons and armour including those you guessed were shaman. There was such a sense of militarism and readiness among them that you found yourself somewhat surprised.
You supposed you shouldn't be though. The Blackrock had always been the most organised and militaristic clan, and Rend's Blackrock were even more warlike than those Thrall had taken to Kalimdor.
You went to the largest building in the village directly, gathering a large crowd of curious onlookers as you did. Sesk proclaimed you as his 'chief', but gladly didn't give you the promotion to Warchief so many of the others seemed to want to.
It was debatable whether you were a chief of course. There were large clans and small ones, and the term was quite flexible, but to be a chief formally was a matter of leadership and recognition. Certainly the humans of Lordaeron and the surrounding kingdoms acknowledged you as a chief over the Orcs of Alterac, and Haomarush in particular did so too, but really that wasn't enough to be properly recognised. There was also the issue of your father, for you would not permit others to proclaim you chief of the Burning Blade without discussing it with him first.
It was becoming rather silly though, you knew. You were the ruler of a kingdom, the master of thousands of warriors, and had the respect of monarchs and heroes. It seemed you were likely to come into conflict with Dal'rend of the Blackrock, and if you defeated him in battle naturally many would consider you to be Warchief, at least over the Orcs of the Eastern Kingdoms.
You pushed such thoughts aside though. A large orc of advancing years stepped from the hall, old enough that he would have aged naturally rather than being artificially grown before the Dark Portal opened. "I am Jed Runewatcher." he announced, "I lead this force."
"No you do not." you replied. That seemed to take him aback, but you pressed on. "You abandoned your elders and wounded. No leader does such a thing. You do not lead here."
It seemed more to tire him, than to anger Runewatcher, "I did, and I have explained my reasoning and my orders to my folk here. You may mean to pare them away from me and to your cause, but authority stems from above, I follow my orders."
That was interesting. Truly, it seemed that Rend meant to catch up all the orcs disrupted by your movements over the last year or so. You didn't specifically find that offensive, certainly Rend had the kin-claim over the Blackrock for example, but you held honour close, and any who scorned it would account for their actions to you, with word or blade.
"You mean to bring away these orcs from this place, sailing toward the Dragonmaw lands?" you asked.
Runewatcher nodded, "The Warchief, Dal'rend, has no quarrel with you, though he has heard of you before. These are our people and we will return them to Blackrock Mountain, their home."
He was taking a rather more legalistic stance than you'd anticipated. You'd not known what sort of orc he was, you'd been prepared for someone you might have to intimidate or provoke into a duel, but it seemed Runewatcher was of a more cautious sort. Perhaps that was wise on Rend's part, for the mission he'd sent his subordinate on had been one that required secrecy and efficiency, not bluster or valour.
Then again, perhaps that should be known by his name. Whatever runes Runewatcher had been watching, perhaps they required great patience and clarity of mind.
"That may be." you acknowledged, reconsidering your position, "But I will not permit you to go. You have acted dishonourably and I have sworn to act always for honour. You abandoned your elders to the forest, and you have enslaved and brutalised allies of the Horde."
"Not our Horde." grunted one of Runewatcher's retinue.
"Silence!" hissed the later quickly, then he turned back to you, evaluating you carefully, "I have acted as I was ordered to. I acted to preserve as much strength as I might, evacuating the clan south to friendlier lands. I accomplished this, for two thirds of the warriors have already set sail." he said. "If you believe I've acted dishonourably, you must demonstrate why expedience is dishonourable."
That was also an interesting remark, and far subtler than you'd initially given him credit for. But you wouldn't be drawn on it, "No." you said plainly, "I will not permit it. You have acted with dishonour, and your orders were dishonourable. Each warrior chooses his own path. We are not slaves. I will not permit these warriors to further their dishonour by following you, or by following dishonourable orders from a dishonourable chieftain."
There were grumblings at that, but far fewer than you'd anticipated. You knew that the abandonment of the elders was likely extremely unpopular with the orcs, though perhaps fewer would have cared about the enslavement of the Revantusk. But, you knew that Runewatcher at least understood that he couldn't oppose you through force of arms. You were a Blademaster of repute, one you knew this element of the Blackrock clan had heard of. None in the village had the skill to fight you, and you had your own force waiting outside the village.
But if you spilled blood here, you would have already lost.
"What weapon do you bear?" you asked Runewatcher as he thought of what to do next.
The question seemed to surprise him. That was good, for you needed to distract his mind if you were to succeed here. You marked him as an orc of thought and care, but you needed to appeal to his spirit, not his intellect.
Runewatcher's hand moved slowly to his belt, unhooking a spiked mace, the silver haft and brazen head glowing with runes.
"This mace." he said simply, though with some confusion, "I forged it when we came to this world, forged it from the spoils of Stormwind and set the runes myself."
You smiled, "May I see it?"
That seemed to surprise him even more, but he couldn't oppose you without giving insult. Instead he stepped slowly down, bearing the mace, offering it to you by the haft.
When you grasped the weapon you felt the power in it. There was magic and craft in the weapon, you could feel it's forging, feel how Runewatcher had used powdered shadowgems to inscribe the enchantments. You were no artificer or smith, you since bonding with Myzrael you could generally identify any metal by feeling.
"Mithril and Truesilver." you said, "A potent combination, you must have been one of the first to use mithril."
It was a compliment. Though Truesilver was relatively common in more expensive magical items, due to the metal's ability to retain enchantments due to it's purity and magical resonance, mithril had been unknown to the Horde before their arrival on Azeroth.
"I was." Runewatcher confirmed.
You look at the mace, it was well crafted indeed, a testament to it's smith. You knew most of the Blackrocks had some skill at the forge, but few specialised to this degree. You nodded to yourself. "Why did you forge it?" you asked, still holding the weapon.
"Why?" asked Runewatcher, once against caught off guard. "To fight with, to make use of the new materials we acquired in the conquest of Stormwind. To replace my axe, which I broke in the siege."
"You looked to the future then?" you asked, "You saw something to be done, you saw your place among our people? You sought to create and build? You looked at something new and saw an honourable use for it?"
"Perhaps." Runewatcher acknowledged. "I see where you mean to bring us though. You note that I looked to the future, but that Warchief Rend looks to the past? Is that it? You mean to make me admit that he is dishonourable, and therefore to fall in with you?"
And at that you smiled. "No."
It was a clever deduction, but instead you held out the Fireblade, parallel to the ground, the glossy black blade gleaming with inner fire.
Runewatcher took it reverently, for to be given a Blademaster's sword to hold was a great honour. He had it in both hands, then shifted his grip to the long haft, examining the glaive.
"Tell me of it." you instructed him.
Runewatcher's eyes were lost in the lustre. "It is something ancient. I cannot even feel the enchantments on it, I can only feel something old, far older than any weapon I've seen before, and I've looked at the Doomhammer when Warchief Orgrim wielded it." He ran one hand gently along the surface, "It's not metal, it's not Blackrock Iron either, which I thought it might be."
"It is made from the spine of Grond the Breaker." you said simply. "The enchantment upon it is that given to him by the Forgers."
Runewatcher looked swiftly at you in amazement. It was an incredible statement, you knew. To have a blade forged from the body of the progenitor of your people, empowered by those great beings who made your race.
You found the Fireblade thrust back toward you, as if Runewatcher was afraid to damage it. "Never have I seen such a weapon!" he exclaimed.
"Nor I. It is something older, older perhaps even than the concept of weapons. Older than the Boulderfist or the Stonemaul, older than the Doomhammer or the use of Blackrock Iron among our people." you replied, "You asked me whether I think Rend dishonourable for looking to the past? No, I don't, for I too look to the past. I look to a time when our people were simple and primitive, when we skulked in the caves under Gorgrond. I look to a time when we were pure and true. But I also know that such a time is not enough for us anymore. The time of clans is over, the time of the Horde has come. We need discipline, organisation, diplomacy, technology and a vision for the future. Most of all though we need honour, and that is what your Warchief lacks."
You returned Runewatcher's mace, then held the Fireblade high. "I have sworn to follow honour. I have sworn oaths to our people, to my clan. But most of all I have sworn to hold honour in my heart. I look back to the past to inform that honour, but I also look to the future. Neither can be complete without the other, else we'll continue to make the mistakes of yesteryear, charging ahead into new disasters."
You lowered your blade, looking around the watchers, then back at Runewatcher.
"I am Grok'mash of the Burning Blade. I have spoken." You announced. "Take council among yourselves, then give me your answer."
What the question they would be answering, you left to them. Instead you went to the palisade which held the Revantusk. You commanded the gates be open and dismissed the guards, who went willingly, mesmerised by the banner on your back.
You stepped over the threshold into a pathetic camp. After surveying the Revantusk though you didn't stay long, commanding them to marshal themselves and seek out your warband outside the village.
Instead you went back, slowly this time, unhurried and uncaring of the looks you were getting.
Shatterskull came riding up on his warg, "How goes it, Warchief. We saw the trolls and we've got them settled. The shaman say not to give them too much food, I wanted to check whether this was to your will."
"Leave it to the shaman, they will settle them." you replied. You didn't know why the trolls were being restricted in their food, but perhaps it was simply something only shaman knew. Certainly your desire to assist the trolls was evident, so you doubted it was simply badmindedness or something similar. "And it goes well." you replied.
"Will they join us?" asked Shatterskull.
You didn't say anything to that. Runewatcher must know that he had no chance if it came to battle, so you supposed it was a matter of whether or not he desired to rally his people to die aimlessly. It would not be a contest of honour, and you felt you knew reasonably well where he would fall. "Go smash the boats." you ordered the Warsong instead.
Shatterskull clasped fist against chest and rode off swiftly, hooting as he went to rally a portion of his company.
The crude barges the Revantusk had been forced to fashion weren't complex or well made. You saw Shatterskull's warriors slashing at the ropes which held them together and chopping harshly though the deckplates.
At length, Runewatcher emerged again, walking toward you with a number of other experienced orcs. They seemed content, if a little uncomfortable, and with a smile you beckoned your warband to advance and meet them. The resulting medley of orcs was more than a thousand strong, with the trolls standing awkwardly at the back, only witnesses to the events.
"I have discussed out position with the other senior warriors." Runewatcher announced, slightly louder than was necessary. "It being so that I may have erred, I have agreed to resign my post as leader of this warband. Instead, we have debated our position, understanding that we cannot return to Blackrock Mountain at this time. Instead, we ask you for hospitality and sanctuary."
Again, your esteem for the orc rose. He was intelligent indeed, but also had a political will more complex than others might. In this way Runewatcher both protected himself, avoided the going over to you fully, while also leaving himself room to go back to Rend if he found an opportunity he wanted to take. By resigning his post, he abdicated responsibility for anything that occurred after as well as taking the fall for Rend's orders and absolving himself of blame for the abandonment of the elders and the enslavement of the Revantusk. He willingly took on dishonour in order to maintain honour.
But, you thought with a smile, hadn't that been what you'd done when you claimed responsibility over the Burning Blade's activities in the Barrens and the summoning of Forneus?
"I will happily share fire and food with you." you replied, using one of the more contemporary phrases to complete the ritual.
Immediately a tension that you'd not noticed left the air. You nodded, not at anything in particular, but smiled again, "It is a long road back to Alterac." you said, "And there will be much to discuss before we get there. For now though, let us see to the necessary matters. Bring food and drink, and some for the trolls too."
That met with a few grumbles, but you'd known this might be necessary and had prepared several wagons of meat and other provisions the day before. They wouldn't be able to get them down the cliffs of course, but it was easy enough to arrange some ropes and other mechanisms.
"Chief," said one of the trolls, a female of that species in ragged clothing, "We must rescue our elder, Torntusk, the Vilebranch hold him."
"No." you replied swiftly, "We are in no state for another assault on your enemies. Rest and recover your strength."
You dismissed her. You had come here to help the trolls of course, but you also recognised that you cared much more for the unity of the orcish people and for the settling in of Runewatcher's Blackrock than you did for a leader of a weak troll tribe.
That night though several of them came to you after you'd all eaten. You'd dined simply with Sesk at your side, but you'd also been among the warriors to show yourself and be seen. It was past midnight, as everyone was going to sleep on the soft grass beyond the beach that they came to you.
Shatterskull spoke for them, but you saw several elders from the abandoned Blackrock, as well as Runewatcher and some of his warriors. You saw Mazath the Fel Orc and the troll woman, herself named Torntusk too in the customs of her people's mating rituals.
"Chief." Shatterskull said, "We wish to make the blood oath to you."
You sat up at that, discarding the blackroot tea you'd been drinking into the fire. There was little to think about it though, either you declined and gave them great insult, or you accepted. You suspected there was more going on here, for the groups to have come together in common purpose, but this was not the time. You nodded simply, and the next morning the whole of the combined warbands stood before you.
"'Lok'tar ogar', 'victory or death'. These are the words which bind me. By sacred flame, by axe and spear, by vow and bond. I stand against the wolfwind and the salt sea." the thousands spoke as one.
It was then they diverged. The Blackrock were first, as the largest force, and they swore by ancient iron and secret fastness to obey you and your commands.
Then were the trolls, who declared their allegiance by the Loa and the spirits.
After was the Warsong, who just raised their heads to the sky and bellowed their strange ululating cries.
And with the edge of the Fireblade you cut a small slice into your palm, then squeezed your hand into a fist. When you held it up you showed a crimson palm.
Every person there, with the exception of Sesk who had never sworn to you anyway, did the same, each showing you their bloody palms too. It was an ancient ritual, one conducted hundreds of years ago with the first Horde who'd arisen under an unnamed Warchief to bring down the Gorian Empire, but then repeated and revitalised by Blackhand as the first modern Warchief. He had demanded the blood oath from his followers, and now your own warriors offered the same.
"I grant you your rights under my eyes, and return your oath." you spoke the sacred words, "Valour with honour, oath-breaking with vengeance. We are kin, bound by blood. Lok'tar ogar!"
+1000 Orcs,+1000 trolls of Revantusk. +moderate diplo with Quen'danil and Wildhammer. - diplo with Rend when he finds out. Rest of Blackrock evacuated to Highlands.
Hinterlands Interlude 3
You were a bannered Blademaster, flanked by two Fel Orcs. None within the village had the rank to impede you and indeed many saluted as you passed.
These were warriors you saw. There were few females among them and every orc bore weapons and armour including those you guessed were shaman. There was such a sense of militarism and readiness among them that you found yourself somewhat surprised.
You supposed you shouldn't be though. The Blackrock had always been the most organised and militaristic clan, and Rend's Blackrock were even more warlike than those Thrall had taken to Kalimdor.
You went to the largest building in the village directly, gathering a large crowd of curious onlookers as you did. Sesk proclaimed you as his 'chief', but gladly didn't give you the promotion to Warchief so many of the others seemed to want to.
It was debatable whether you were a chief of course. There were large clans and small ones, and the term was quite flexible, but to be a chief formally was a matter of leadership and recognition. Certainly the humans of Lordaeron and the surrounding kingdoms acknowledged you as a chief over the Orcs of Alterac, and Haomarush in particular did so too, but really that wasn't enough to be properly recognised. There was also the issue of your father, for you would not permit others to proclaim you chief of the Burning Blade without discussing it with him first.
It was becoming rather silly though, you knew. You were the ruler of a kingdom, the master of thousands of warriors, and had the respect of monarchs and heroes. It seemed you were likely to come into conflict with Dal'rend of the Blackrock, and if you defeated him in battle naturally many would consider you to be Warchief, at least over the Orcs of the Eastern Kingdoms.
You pushed such thoughts aside though. A large orc of advancing years stepped from the hall, old enough that he would have aged naturally rather than being artificially grown before the Dark Portal opened. "I am Jed Runewatcher." he announced, "I lead this force."
"No you do not." you replied. That seemed to take him aback, but you pressed on. "You abandoned your elders and wounded. No leader does such a thing. You do not lead here."
It seemed more to tire him, than to anger Runewatcher, "I did, and I have explained my reasoning and my orders to my folk here. You may mean to pare them away from me and to your cause, but authority stems from above, I follow my orders."
That was interesting. Truly, it seemed that Rend meant to catch up all the orcs disrupted by your movements over the last year or so. You didn't specifically find that offensive, certainly Rend had the kin-claim over the Blackrock for example, but you held honour close, and any who scorned it would account for their actions to you, with word or blade.
"You mean to bring away these orcs from this place, sailing toward the Dragonmaw lands?" you asked.
Runewatcher nodded, "The Warchief, Dal'rend, has no quarrel with you, though he has heard of you before. These are our people and we will return them to Blackrock Mountain, their home."
He was taking a rather more legalistic stance than you'd anticipated. You'd not known what sort of orc he was, you'd been prepared for someone you might have to intimidate or provoke into a duel, but it seemed Runewatcher was of a more cautious sort. Perhaps that was wise on Rend's part, for the mission he'd sent his subordinate on had been one that required secrecy and efficiency, not bluster or valour.
Then again, perhaps that should be known by his name. Whatever runes Runewatcher had been watching, perhaps they required great patience and clarity of mind.
"That may be." you acknowledged, reconsidering your position, "But I will not permit you to go. You have acted dishonourably and I have sworn to act always for honour. You abandoned your elders to the forest, and you have enslaved and brutalised allies of the Horde."
"Not our Horde." grunted one of Runewatcher's retinue.
"Silence!" hissed the later quickly, then he turned back to you, evaluating you carefully, "I have acted as I was ordered to. I acted to preserve as much strength as I might, evacuating the clan south to friendlier lands. I accomplished this, for two thirds of the warriors have already set sail." he said. "If you believe I've acted dishonourably, you must demonstrate why expedience is dishonourable."
That was also an interesting remark, and far subtler than you'd initially given him credit for. But you wouldn't be drawn on it, "No." you said plainly, "I will not permit it. You have acted with dishonour, and your orders were dishonourable. Each warrior chooses his own path. We are not slaves. I will not permit these warriors to further their dishonour by following you, or by following dishonourable orders from a dishonourable chieftain."
There were grumblings at that, but far fewer than you'd anticipated. You knew that the abandonment of the elders was likely extremely unpopular with the orcs, though perhaps fewer would have cared about the enslavement of the Revantusk. But, you knew that Runewatcher at least understood that he couldn't oppose you through force of arms. You were a Blademaster of repute, one you knew this element of the Blackrock clan had heard of. None in the village had the skill to fight you, and you had your own force waiting outside the village.
But if you spilled blood here, you would have already lost.
"What weapon do you bear?" you asked Runewatcher as he thought of what to do next.
The question seemed to surprise him. That was good, for you needed to distract his mind if you were to succeed here. You marked him as an orc of thought and care, but you needed to appeal to his spirit, not his intellect.
Runewatcher's hand moved slowly to his belt, unhooking a spiked mace, the silver haft and brazen head glowing with runes.
"This mace." he said simply, though with some confusion, "I forged it when we came to this world, forged it from the spoils of Stormwind and set the runes myself."
You smiled, "May I see it?"
That seemed to surprise him even more, but he couldn't oppose you without giving insult. Instead he stepped slowly down, bearing the mace, offering it to you by the haft.
When you grasped the weapon you felt the power in it. There was magic and craft in the weapon, you could feel it's forging, feel how Runewatcher had used powdered shadowgems to inscribe the enchantments. You were no artificer or smith, you since bonding with Myzrael you could generally identify any metal by feeling.
"Mithril and Truesilver." you said, "A potent combination, you must have been one of the first to use mithril."
It was a compliment. Though Truesilver was relatively common in more expensive magical items, due to the metal's ability to retain enchantments due to it's purity and magical resonance, mithril had been unknown to the Horde before their arrival on Azeroth.
"I was." Runewatcher confirmed.
You look at the mace, it was well crafted indeed, a testament to it's smith. You knew most of the Blackrocks had some skill at the forge, but few specialised to this degree. You nodded to yourself. "Why did you forge it?" you asked, still holding the weapon.
"Why?" asked Runewatcher, once against caught off guard. "To fight with, to make use of the new materials we acquired in the conquest of Stormwind. To replace my axe, which I broke in the siege."
"You looked to the future then?" you asked, "You saw something to be done, you saw your place among our people? You sought to create and build? You looked at something new and saw an honourable use for it?"
"Perhaps." Runewatcher acknowledged. "I see where you mean to bring us though. You note that I looked to the future, but that Warchief Rend looks to the past? Is that it? You mean to make me admit that he is dishonourable, and therefore to fall in with you?"
And at that you smiled. "No."
It was a clever deduction, but instead you held out the Fireblade, parallel to the ground, the glossy black blade gleaming with inner fire.
Runewatcher took it reverently, for to be given a Blademaster's sword to hold was a great honour. He had it in both hands, then shifted his grip to the long haft, examining the glaive.
"Tell me of it." you instructed him.
Runewatcher's eyes were lost in the lustre. "It is something ancient. I cannot even feel the enchantments on it, I can only feel something old, far older than any weapon I've seen before, and I've looked at the Doomhammer when Warchief Orgrim wielded it." He ran one hand gently along the surface, "It's not metal, it's not Blackrock Iron either, which I thought it might be."
"It is made from the spine of Grond the Breaker." you said simply. "The enchantment upon it is that given to him by the Forgers."
Runewatcher looked swiftly at you in amazement. It was an incredible statement, you knew. To have a blade forged from the body of the progenitor of your people, empowered by those great beings who made your race.
You found the Fireblade thrust back toward you, as if Runewatcher was afraid to damage it. "Never have I seen such a weapon!" he exclaimed.
"Nor I. It is something older, older perhaps even than the concept of weapons. Older than the Boulderfist or the Stonemaul, older than the Doomhammer or the use of Blackrock Iron among our people." you replied, "You asked me whether I think Rend dishonourable for looking to the past? No, I don't, for I too look to the past. I look to a time when our people were simple and primitive, when we skulked in the caves under Gorgrond. I look to a time when we were pure and true. But I also know that such a time is not enough for us anymore. The time of clans is over, the time of the Horde has come. We need discipline, organisation, diplomacy, technology and a vision for the future. Most of all though we need honour, and that is what your Warchief lacks."
You returned Runewatcher's mace, then held the Fireblade high. "I have sworn to follow honour. I have sworn oaths to our people, to my clan. But most of all I have sworn to hold honour in my heart. I look back to the past to inform that honour, but I also look to the future. Neither can be complete without the other, else we'll continue to make the mistakes of yesteryear, charging ahead into new disasters."
You lowered your blade, looking around the watchers, then back at Runewatcher.
"I am Grok'mash of the Burning Blade. I have spoken." You announced. "Take council among yourselves, then give me your answer."
What the question they would be answering, you left to them. Instead you went to the palisade which held the Revantusk. You commanded the gates be open and dismissed the guards, who went willingly, mesmerised by the banner on your back.
You stepped over the threshold into a pathetic camp. After surveying the Revantusk though you didn't stay long, commanding them to marshal themselves and seek out your warband outside the village.
Instead you went back, slowly this time, unhurried and uncaring of the looks you were getting.
Shatterskull came riding up on his warg, "How goes it, Warchief. We saw the trolls and we've got them settled. The shaman say not to give them too much food, I wanted to check whether this was to your will."
"Leave it to the shaman, they will settle them." you replied. You didn't know why the trolls were being restricted in their food, but perhaps it was simply something only shaman knew. Certainly your desire to assist the trolls was evident, so you doubted it was simply badmindedness or something similar. "And it goes well." you replied.
"Will they join us?" asked Shatterskull.
You didn't say anything to that. Runewatcher must know that he had no chance if it came to battle, so you supposed it was a matter of whether or not he desired to rally his people to die aimlessly. It would not be a contest of honour, and you felt you knew reasonably well where he would fall. "Go smash the boats." you ordered the Warsong instead.
Shatterskull clasped fist against chest and rode off swiftly, hooting as he went to rally a portion of his company.
The crude barges the Revantusk had been forced to fashion weren't complex or well made. You saw Shatterskull's warriors slashing at the ropes which held them together and chopping harshly though the deckplates.
At length, Runewatcher emerged again, walking toward you with a number of other experienced orcs. They seemed content, if a little uncomfortable, and with a smile you beckoned your warband to advance and meet them. The resulting medley of orcs was more than a thousand strong, with the trolls standing awkwardly at the back, only witnesses to the events.
"I have discussed out position with the other senior warriors." Runewatcher announced, slightly louder than was necessary. "It being so that I may have erred, I have agreed to resign my post as leader of this warband. Instead, we have debated our position, understanding that we cannot return to Blackrock Mountain at this time. Instead, we ask you for hospitality and sanctuary."
Again, your esteem for the orc rose. He was intelligent indeed, but also had a political will more complex than others might. In this way Runewatcher both protected himself, avoided the going over to you fully, while also leaving himself room to go back to Rend if he found an opportunity he wanted to take. By resigning his post, he abdicated responsibility for anything that occurred after as well as taking the fall for Rend's orders and absolving himself of blame for the abandonment of the elders and the enslavement of the Revantusk. He willingly took on dishonour in order to maintain honour.
But, you thought with a smile, hadn't that been what you'd done when you claimed responsibility over the Burning Blade's activities in the Barrens and the summoning of Forneus?
"I will happily share fire and food with you." you replied, using one of the more contemporary phrases to complete the ritual.
Immediately a tension that you'd not noticed left the air. You nodded, not at anything in particular, but smiled again, "It is a long road back to Alterac." you said, "And there will be much to discuss before we get there. For now though, let us see to the necessary matters. Bring food and drink, and some for the trolls too."
That met with a few grumbles, but you'd known this might be necessary and had prepared several wagons of meat and other provisions the day before. They wouldn't be able to get them down the cliffs of course, but it was easy enough to arrange some ropes and other mechanisms.
"Chief," said one of the trolls, a female of that species in ragged clothing, "We must rescue our elder, Torntusk, the Vilebranch hold him."
"No." you replied swiftly, "We are in no state for another assault on your enemies. Rest and recover your strength."
You dismissed her. You had come here to help the trolls of course, but you also recognised that you cared much more for the unity of the orcish people and for the settling in of Runewatcher's Blackrock than you did for a leader of a weak troll tribe.
That night though several of them came to you after you'd all eaten. You'd dined simply with Sesk at your side, but you'd also been among the warriors to show yourself and be seen. It was past midnight, as everyone was going to sleep on the soft grass beyond the beach that they came to you.
Shatterskull spoke for them, but you saw several elders from the abandoned Blackrock, as well as Runewatcher and some of his warriors. You saw Mazath the Fel Orc and the troll woman, herself named Torntusk too in the customs of her people's mating rituals.
"Chief." Shatterskull said, "We wish to make the blood oath to you."
You sat up at that, discarding the blackroot tea you'd been drinking into the fire. There was little to think about it though, either you declined and gave them great insult, or you accepted. You suspected there was more going on here, for the groups to have come together in common purpose, but this was not the time. You nodded simply, and the next morning the whole of the combined warbands stood before you.
"'Lok'tar ogar', 'victory or death'. These are the words which bind me. By sacred flame, by axe and spear, by vow and bond. I stand against the wolfwind and the salt sea." the thousands spoke as one.
It was then they diverged. The Blackrock were first, as the largest force, and they swore by ancient iron and secret fastness to obey you and your commands.
Then were the trolls, who declared their allegiance by the Loa and the spirits.
After was the Warsong, who just raised their heads to the sky and bellowed their strange ululating cries.
And with the edge of the Fireblade you cut a small slice into your palm, then squeezed your hand into a fist. When you held it up you showed a crimson palm.
Every person there, with the exception of Sesk who had never sworn to you anyway, did the same, each showing you their bloody palms too. It was an ancient ritual, one conducted hundreds of years ago with the first Horde who'd arisen under an unnamed Warchief to bring down the Gorian Empire, but then repeated and revitalised by Blackhand as the first modern Warchief. He had demanded the blood oath from his followers, and now your own warriors offered the same.
"I grant you your rights under my eyes, and return your oath." you spoke the sacred words, "Valour with honour, oath-breaking with vengeance. We are kin, bound by blood. Lok'tar ogar!"
+1000 Orcs,+1000 trolls of Revantusk. +moderate diplo with Quen'danil and Wildhammer. - diplo with Rend when he finds out. Rest of Blackrock evacuated to Highlands.
Last edited:
Grok really showing off that Persuasion and Advance Leadership stats.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
I am not following this. How does this absolve Runewatcher of the blame for following Rend's orders, if he is the one taking the fall for them?
How does this help him maintain honor?
The Vilebranch Tribe are a tribe of Forest Trolls that live in parts of the Hinterlands. However, the do practice worship to Hakkar the Soulflayer, similiar to the Gurubashi Tribe of Jungle Trolls.
The Vilebranch noticed our Revantusk allies moving in and decided that the Revantusk would make for good sacrifices in rituals.
So, the Vilebranch have to be brought to heel.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Back to Alterac. Vilebranches would be a further action if you wanted it next turn, but it's not entirely necessary
I do sometimes worry about this sort of thing. I'd like to make sure it's properly represented, but I can get that people's views might vary I suppose. Grok still isn't a diplomat, but he's getting a better idea of how to talk to people and what they might want. Runewatcher comparably has done very well for himself there etc.
So it's somewhat complicated.
Runewatcher has been ordered to bring back the Blackrock in the north. He's got 2/3rds of them, but then Grok arrives and he realises that he can't continue with that. Therefore, he's starting to think about how he's going to get around Grok. Firstly, he tries to get Grok to just let him leave on the basis that they're not at war yet etc. That doesn't work, Grok says he's not going to let them leave because he regards them as dishonoruable.
Subsequently, Runewatcher (presumably having heard at least a little bit about Grok) knows that Grok is big on honour. Therefore he's having a think about how he can try to maintain his position and power as a captain. He's also thinking though in the back of his mind that even if Grok could probably beat Rend in a fight, Rend doesn't fight fair.
So he has a few choices. He can try to fight Grok and lose, he can become presumably a prisoner, or he can join up like Gol'dir did after Grok smashed the Frostwolves. He picks the third option. But to do this, he also wants to maintain a level of plausible deniability to Rend if he does get called out on it at some point if Rend wins.
A lot of the Orcs around Grok are very much under the impression Grok is going to go after Rend. Grok is aware of this, but doesn't really want to because he feels there are bigger things to worry about etc and he's not even necessarily a greedy or ambitious guy. However, lots of people are pushing him toward such a thing.
Anyway, Runewatcher discusses this with his guys and they agree that he will resign. This is a hit to his prestige because he has to publically acknoledge that he's done something dishonourable and he loses his position etc. However in this case because it's an arranged resignation he can preserve some honour and keep face. It's sort of double jepardoy. Runewatcher is betting that if he preemtively punishes himself, Grok won't further punish him. It doesn't necessarily absolve him of blame, but it does mean he can just say he's already taken the fall from it etc. Subsequently, he organises his guys and pushes for swearing alliegance to Grok, and as he knows the Blackrock are a significant force in Grok's Horde, he knows his actions will sway others and he'll rapidly get his position back.
However, resigning also allows him to tell Rend (if it gets around to that) that actually it wasn't his fault, that the warriors forced him to resign, that he had no control over their actions etc.
So he's being fairly clever with it all really.
Yea it's this guy. I would note briefly about Troll politics that they seem to have a pretty fractious relationship. I generally treat them like the Aztecs etc, where you'd have polities fighting each other and then taking sacrifices. The problem is the Revantusk had stayed loyal to the Horde rather than going back to the Amani after the Second War, and subsequently lost the patronage of the overall Amani tribe.