@FractiousDay I have to ask something. Just because you are of the same race doesnt mean you have to be of the same nation. Before the Orcs came to Azeroth, they were divided into tribes. The humans have many allied, yet competing kingdoms, elves are separated into High and Night elves, and the dwarves also have 2 kingdoms, right? So, is there any reason we cant have King Thrall, King Grok and King Rend, ruling over 3 different kingdoms separated not only by a significant distance but also by ideology, instead of one Emperor Grok?
this is the de facto state of the Horde, split into several parts.
the very existence of Rend as a pretender warchief is something that Thrall treats as a matter that requires a political assassination
Nevill and Wizardly Kir have it covered. For the moment, the legacy of the Warchief is hotly contested. For Thrall and Rend they cannot regarded it as 'shareable' or in any way divisible. To Rend, Thrall is an insult and the succsessor of the orc who killed his father, while to Thrall, Rend is a representation of the Old Horde which he's trying to get away from. Each diminishes the other's authority significantly just by existing.
To the Orcs, it's probably a choice of either having a warchief or not having one. To the Alliance, they probably don't have a problem in comprehending that there's two (or three with Grok) Orc polities because they're used to the personenverbantstadt, or state of parcelised soverignty where poltiical power is divided up in the feudal system. Comparably, the Orcs were violently forged into the Horde, tempered in several genocides, and would find it difficult to even understand the idea of there being multiple separate Hordes.
Shall threadmark those repsonses actually as they're good.
Am also glad that it's clear that Orcs switch alleigance relatively quickly. They're not super nationalistic and they seem to fall quite easily into following charismatic leaders.
they have little in the way of ideology
I would somewhat contest this. While there's not necessarily political parties, there's existing extensive elements of ideological thought. You've got radical demon worshippers, progressive Neo-Frostwolves, revanchist Garrosh's populists, theconservative Old Guard of Saurfang and so on. If they had the ability to vote you'd see a lot of issues where votes were split on various subjects, or on ideological grounds. There are plenty of questions like 'is it permissable to compell elementals to do stuff' or 'to what extent should the Orcs be blamed for their genocidal past'. There's not the same media or literacy, or political parties/factions as emerge in more socially stratified or lettered societies, but there's definitely ideology.
theirs the fel horde which is the members of the horde that were stuck on dreanor after nurzhel broke it and the portal closed of lead by kargath bladefist of the shattered hand clan one of the founders of the horde and currently working with illidan stormrage leader of the illdari (along with funny enough the leader of the blood elves keal'thus and I think some of the surviving gronn ie gruel the dragonslayer)
As far as everyone knows, Draenor exploded, so not relevant for now.
I wish to bargain for more efficient action economy doing them all at once, as they both tie directly in to our desired reforms.
This is indeed a compelling narrative the actions of which synergise well. For example, by leading the Breakers in their domination of elemetnals, you could bond captive elementals with your Blademaster aspirants who've been following you around for 2 years and get proper blademasters out of it. Sesk and the others might grumble a bit as this would be a bit of a shortcut vs the samurai thing they've got going on, but it works well.
I would like more discussion generally from people on what you want to achieve in the Kosh'harg festival though. There's clearly a desire for constitutional reform, are there any other things people haven't mentioned yet?
Freedom and Captivity
Free Merc Action: Assist Kul Tiras with Tol Barad Prison (Try to cool off situation in Kalimdor)
To note, the Kul Tiras action would be bundled with the Dalaran one. I've referenced 'prisons' (plural) but sure can get that it's not necessarily incredibly apparent. So its the merc contracts for the Violet Hold, Tol Barad, negotiations to get the forsaken prisoners and general diplo with Dalaran
Just throwing ideas out here, not sure if its even available to us.
You're correct that you wouldn't have the political maturity to develop such a thing, however, you could have the 'Speaker for the Circle of Earth' who might be a minister for construction/economic development/infrastructure or similar.
Circle of Representatives, where we can have an envoy from every people or piece of land we rule over, e.g. one for Alterac's capital, one for Silverpine Forest, one for the Eastern mountains etc.; humans are included in the last Circle, like any others e.g. the displaced Trolls)
Am not necessarily a superfan of the other ones but this one is cool.
Am currently considering
The Great Circle (of Elders) at the top level, supervising:
Circle of Fire, warriors, warfare, honour
Circle of Air, diplomatic relations, societal stuff, internal representation
Circle of Spirits, shaman, magical research, magical infrastructure
Circle of Earth, construction, industry, economics
Circle of Water? Not sure what this one would do, perhaps 'connectedness' like trade, communication, culture? Law/administration of the clan system and justice possibly.
This fits in with the shaman paradigm
Each Circle to have a speaker and scribes, annoucners etc. Could act in various ways such as a consultive assembly, a committee, etc.
Would probably have you set a legislative agenda every few turns and report on progress as it goes along.
If the Circle of Blademasters goes well, maybe we'll find a few candidates that would act as diplomats, and get a free diplomatic action out of it? A lot of people (like Kul Tiras) would be unlikely to treat with anyone but Grok'mash himself, but our envoys could probably handle negotiations with people we already helped, or former Horde allies (trolls and orc clans that fall under the influence of other Hordes).
So, potentially, but I would also say that this is specifically the story of Grok'mash. I've never represented any other POV in the narrative, and I also don't want to get stuck into tracking various things other than when they're relevant to Grok's story. What would the purpose of a free action be and how would it advance the purpose of the story, to tell the narrative of Grok and of his struggles with agency and stuff? If you wanted a free diplo action then I can represent it offscreen as 'and then someone went off to talk to so and so', but I would probably say that little of consequence would occur. Any significant diplomatic effort would indeed be conducted by Grok because he's respected and because that serves the narrative. If you want something that gets something done but doesn't take an action, just specify it. Eg, 'procure dwarven engieners for X project', you can just assume that's going on off screen or that various arrangements are being made. If it's 'envoys could probably handle negotiations with people we already helped' then sure I can represent that, but that doesn't sound like something that wuld need a whole action (free or not) to do.
speaking of trolls no real reason wonder how the winteraxe tribe of trolls are getting along with their new raventusk troll neigbours they are being usually passive I would say they already went of to northrend but I think this turn mentioned them
So, the Winteraxe are probably not having a great time. They went from quite happily raiding and hanging about doing troll stuff, to there being suddenly a powerful and skilled, but more importantly, vigorous Blademaster next door with 20k orcs. They're extremely worried Grok is going to look their way and squash them, and they're glad they chilled out before he got round to it.
Formal pact of bond as in "recognizes orcs as protectors of Alterac"? Or as in "Grok has to marry some shapeshifting dragon girl to unite our houses"?
Amsuing. Probably just a proclaimation giving the Orcs legal residency rather than them being legally mercs etc.
foederati, that sort of thing.
The only known attempt to establish a kingdom of orcs is, again, Thrall's, where he took a part of the Barrens and renamed it into "the Kingdom of Durotar", or "the Realm of Durotar"... Except everybody continued to call him "Warchief", so it didn't much aside from creating a new topographic term and a footnote in history.
While I suspect this is just a development in how the game was described, it's potentially a cool look into how Thrall's early efforts went. I can imagine him getting to Durotar and setting up his 'kingdom' and trying to institute feudal relations, and then everyone ignoring it and refusing to do so, and the whole effort rather falling flat. As you say, it would be a historical footnote, but might have informed why Thrall seems to start out strong and then rather trail off in his reform efforts.
No, but it doesn't matter people can just vote again when it is. I'll leave it another day or so or for the conversation to continue
