Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
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I'm very glad that people seem to think this. I find it very frustrating in some stories where there doesn't seem to be anything going on. I find it useful to simulate some of this stuff through rolls, but I've taken a lot from other game systems that intend to allow an author/GM to simulate a series of faction interactions without having to write it all out or make decisions etc. I will admit to sometimes forgetting about stuff for example, when Grok arrived at Orgrimmar there was a disruption to magical stuff in Azshara, but that's not really come up and is somewhat irrelevant. I also don't intend to write about the Troll-Goblin-Kul Tiran trade war going on in the South Seas until it comes up more substantively.
I think just like Grok before his revelation the council excluding Danny boy never actually had a good understanding of the fel or at least why people would choose to take up forbidden or esoteric knowledge to advance their position in life.
While the followers of the light never had their faith broken like the orcs when Guldan used the cipher of damnation, they had just as bad similarities where a maverick Kirin Tor mage while sanctioned was not imprisoned and instead let go to pursue his necromancy and eventually lead him to the lich king, the founding of the cult of the damned and eventually Arthas becoming a death knight who killed many champions of the knight and alliance.
So just as it will be as Karlus thinks of, it'll be good questions to ask to the key members. They rightly fear what they don't understand but is it better to keep experts close at hand to understand the unknown rather than blindly trust in what you possess to see you through the day?
While the followers of the light never had their faith broken like the orcs when Guldan used the cipher of damnation, they had just as bad similarities where a maverick Kirin Tor mage while sanctioned was not imprisoned and instead let go to pursue his necromancy and eventually lead him to the lich king, the founding of the cult of the damned and eventually Arthas becoming a death knight who killed many champions of the knight and alliance.
So just as it will be as Karlus thinks of, it'll be good questions to ask to the key members. They rightly fear what they don't understand but is it better to keep experts close at hand to understand the unknown rather than blindly trust in what you possess to see you through the day?
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I would remark that he already has a pretty good understanding of all of them. It's a somewhat academic understanding, but nevertheless, a comprehensive one for the Fel and Demons, and he has a practicioners understanding of Elementals. He lacks the breadth of some others, as well as exposure to new perspectives, and he lacks specific areas of knowledge, but otherwise he's quite well informed.
I was more meant that Grock could bring a good understanding of those things to the Church and that was a valuable asset, sorry should've specified that.
Inquisition Interlude 4
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Inquisition Interlude 4
In what was nothing more than a continuation of the strange events of the day, you spent the next hour lying more than you ever had in your entire life.
You were not accustomed to deception, nor was it your habit.
You had long known there was a difference between honesty and honour, but it still sat strangely with you. There had been the great lie before Thrall, then the array of lies and deception which had allowed you to navigate your mixture of allegiance to your Clan, the Scarlet Crusade, your people and the cause of the Horde and to Alterac as its Constable.
Honour was never served by stupidity. In military affairs, or in the council chamber, you knew deception was necessary, but it have never struck you till now just how necessary.
You had concluded from the way Dathrohan was shaping the questions that he intended to further extend his control over the military forces of the Alliance. He had designs upon Northrend, you knew, but you'd no idea about the specifics of the campaign. Now was his moment to lock the other kingdoms into the Alliance fully, to draw Stormwind, Quel'thalas and Ironforge into his campaign.
You weren't entirely sure how the trial was intended to do this. Perhaps the Grand Crusader wanted to demonstrate his authority and build his prestige by leading the panel of judges, or somehow shape a narrative.
Then again, it may also be that Dathrohan intended that the trial show the need for new weapons and new alliances. If he could demonstrate that an Orc, and by proxy Orcs in general, could be fast friends and true allies, could he also show that the Nerubians and Drakkari trolls of Northrend could also be allies? You knew little of those peoples, other than their existence, but if they maintained armies they might resist the Lich King.
You found yourself slipping into your best attempt at obligation. It was not the archaic courtesy of Haomarush, nor the basic respect of your subordinates toward you. You were attempting to present yourself as more than merely an Orc, more than merely an alien to the land but as a true ally, or someone who might become one at least.
It grated a little, you had your pride after all. There was no honour in self-aggrandisement and you didn't intend to storm out of the proceedings just because you weren't offered refreshment, but the tone of the questioning was insulting at times. You carried the dignity of a chief and no doubt soon a warchief, and the commander of twenty thousands besides.
No matter, your sword and deeds would teach them better.
"And in all these affairs, what use have you made of death magic?" asked Highforge, his beady eyes glinting.
It was not the first question of its sort. You hadn't specified specific methods in the narration of your journey, but the question went to your thoughts on Dathrohan's aims. If he could demonstrate that you had used Fel magic then the use of such magic by the Crusaders could also be sanctioned. It was strange, seeing the Highlord of the Crusade using the same methods as your father had advocated for the use of the Fel.
"I cannot answer such a question," you replied.
The elf to the right seized on it immediately, leaning forward, "You refuse to answer?" he demanded.
Of the judges, Dathrohan and Tirion were firmly on your side. Wyrmbane seemed impressed at times, yet perturbed at others. Highforge seemed to have a poor opinion of you but had been willing to at least hear our your responses and consider them.
But all through the trial Mehlar Dawnblade had been your greatest detractor, eager to hector and harangue the other judges, frequently interrupting them and making calls of procedure or precedent. It seemed he held you and all you represented to the highest standard.
"I do not refuse," you replied evenly. "It is an unanswerable question. I believe you speak of the Fel. But I say first that the Fel is not 'death magic', which draws primarily from the traditions of what you would recognise as shadow or void magic. Death magic is necromacy, once practiced by some among certain tribes of people but is ultimately the use of shadow magic to animate the dead. The Fel meanwhile was taught to Ner'zhul and to Gul'dan, his apprentice, but the Orcish use of the Fel stems from the Burning Legion's magics, not from the traditions of the Shadowmoon Clan, of whom Ner'zhul was chief. I have never used shadow magic myself, though I have fought alongside those who have, among them many warlocks in my own clan who do not use other magics such as demonology."
"Such distinction is meaningless!" spat Dawnblade. "These are black and evil magics."
The elf was making a fool of himself. The distinction was very relevant, and you even saw several of the more learned priests in the hall nod in agreement at your remark.
"You asked the question, brother," Wyrmbane pointed out. "It be better that you hear the answer. Come now, are there none in this hall which may corroborate this statement, if it be a question of fact?"
Valroth the Inquisitor rose from his seat and bowed, "It is the case, my lords, that the mages of Dalaran have differentiated between types of magic, allocated them to specific categories and in particular forbade the study of necromancy, shadow magic and void magic. This was a field of fringe academic interest and the only one learned in it was the accursed Kel'thuzad himself. In the past the laws of Lordaeron magics were differentiated by the effect and consequence, rather than by the categorisation specifically. It was for this reason that before the Selinite Heresy we made no distinction between a necromancer raising the dead and a priest calling back a soul to the world again."
"It is well that we live in such enlightened times then," said Dathrohan.
You looked to Wyrmbane, who motioned you on.
"You have asked what use I've made of the Fel." you repeated, gathering yourself after the diversion, "I would say that all of my people have been touched by it, have been made stronger by it, thus the colour of my skin which is not the natural colour of the Orcs. I would say that some have taken on more of the Fel than others," and you looked toward Haomarush and Sesk, "but that the use of the Fel is never something I've pursued."
"You have never summoned demons?" Highforge pushed.
You paused then, "As a child my father taught me much of demonology, and I summoned an imp several times at his direction. My father is a skilled demonologist and he thought it proper that I learn such things, but I soon turned toward the sword. That would be the only time I've personally called upon a demon, but as I've explained others under my command have done so at my direction or upon their own initiative and according to their ways of battle."
You wondered that they didn't ask you about Firecalling. You had used it after Naxxramas to purify some of the Crusade's dead. Some firecallers could summon ash remnants, commune with the dead or call spirits. But Bishop Voss sat in the audience and perhaps he'd look poorly on such a question givne that he'd inspected your work and deemed it inoffensive.
"And yet, you tolerate sacrificial magics. Your commander, in this very room, burned living the folk of Alterac for foul rites, is it not so?" Wrymbane asked.
Haomarush made to step forward, sword still in his hand to answer the charge.
"Hold." your voice cut through the air, and the Blademaster stopped, looked to you then nodded, retiring back to his place by the wall.
A murmur had gone through the court and more than one of the Crusaders had tensed.
"I have forbade such rituals and my edicts have yet to be broken." you replied, "Many are the customs of my people, for we are a people of much diversity in practice and tradition. Some I approve of, others I do not. The Bonechewers consume the flesh of their enemies as well as that of their own dead, while the Shattered Hand mutilate themselves. I would do neither, but sacrificial magics are common among almost every Orc clan, to a greater or lesser extent."
Dathrohan himself had led the attack on Brill and burned the town to the ground, slaying the hundreds of Forsaken who sheltered within. Your heart urged you to say it, but this was a time for the mind.
"My learned brothers, surely we can dispense with this line of enquiry? We are here to understand actions, not history." Dathrohan offered.
"On the contrary," said Dawnblade swiftly, "we are here to understand exactly that!" he turned to you again, "In all your explanations you've never repudiated an action or a belief. You've defended, diverted, said that this or that action had to be taken to achieve an aim. What is your belief? What is the core of your true self? You twist and turn like a serpent."
"I have always done what seems best to me. I have always tried to act with honour, to uphold the traditions of my people and of my clan." you replied.
"And so," Dawnblade crowed, "you claim to be the only one to do so. You claim moral superiority, that your actions cannot be question, that your failures be excused as imperatives and your successes as providence. Would you put your judgment above that of so many famous men and claim that you know more than they all?" The elf paused for breath, addressing the crowd more than you now, "We are given laws from above, and by the reason of our own minds, not through mysticism or impulsive action. There must be a code to live by, even among such a primitive race as yours. You live without codification, without sanction save by that of your priests. By your own word, this is precisely how your kind even came to our world, because they had no laws and nothing to constrain the corruption of your people by the Burning Legion! I ask you candidly and without horns, do you repudiate the actions of your people and the errors they contained?"
He seemed almost to recover after, as if a runner upon the finish line, but before you could answer he spoke again.
"The Light is reason. The Light is purity. The Light is the love of the world, returned and unwavering. You claim an upbringing which would have any human put to death for heresy and apostasy. You excuse the actions of your people, not just the historical but the contemporary too. You have said you do not practice cannibalism as the savages of your kin do, but if you were one of that tribe, would you do so? By you own word, your people are ruled by custom. Yet, there is a reason the Light teaches us obedience. We are to achieve the promises of salvation through works and through prayer. We are to be uplifted and to uplift to grace and glory. You cannot judge yourself by mysticism and inspiration otherwise you'd be little more than a child, turning this way and that to pursue the nearest trinket you see!"
Your frustration grew as he spoke. You made some answers, but none that satisfied Dawnblade. He seemed to seek perfection yet be frustrated it remained out of reach. Such was the way of the world, you knew, for there was little beneath the stars which held to such standards.
"I fear we reach an impasse." Highforge said at length. "I do not agree or sanction all that has been said here, by either party, but by your own word you condemn yourself. We can only believe you righteous if we believe you, which in turn transforms your actions. We have only your own attestation as evidence to credit your words, but without evidence to them we cannot decide their veracity."
"This is not a trial of evidence." Tirion said, rising a little from his malaise.
"That is so." Highforge conceded, "But I think it best now that we retire for the day to consider these matters."
Dathrohan signalled his agreement and the whole room rose again for the judges to troop out, with you turning to leave afterward, the ranks of the Crusade filing out after you to disperse through the city.
A weight sat heavy on your chest as you stood there, looking out over the square of Andorhal.
Teach me to stand strong but to bend with the breeze, I put aside bright iron and remember the waters.
"What was that?" Haomarush asked from beside you, "Your own composition?"
You hadn't realised you'd spoken it. "No its-" you paused, "I don't remember, some elder perhaps."
"A worthy verse." came the Blademaster's response.
You were reminded of Sesk's words in the cave on your way to the demongate. He had said you would never truly master the Spirit of Earth, and that you'd have trouble enough with the Spirit of Water too.
Your life had been laid out for you, in a way. Your name meant 'Deep Heart', and you'd spent long enough in contemplation for it to stick. From childhood you'd been able to see snippets of the future, especially in combat. Had it made you resistant to challenge? If you could see what was to happen there was no need to change, after all, for what would be, would be.
No, that wasn't it you realised.
Were you more alike to Sesk then than he'd thought? You looked to him, standing with his blade over his shoulder in an easy stance, the fading light reflecting on his ornaments. He held such hatred in his heart for his brother, yet had made little effort to seek the orc out to kill him. It was strange indeed, but that was what Sesk explained as the mindset of the Winds, to do or not to do, but to wave and dance between decisions and certainties.
You might acknowledge some of Dawnblade's points. It was true that Gul'dan's treachery had been enabled by a lack of codified laws among your people, but you were hardly in a mood to contemplate such a thing deeply.
"This trip has given me much to think about." you mused.
Everything from the state of your clothing to the reforms you'd been considering for the Horde, to the question of magical categorisation and the nature of morality.
You were drained somewhat, you knew, but a battle did not end when you desired it.
It might be well indeed to use this opportunity, even before you there were several points of interest.
Choose 1:
[ ] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
[ ] Try to find Dathrohan to demand answers to his purposes.
[ ] Retire to your own quarters to reflect on the day's events with your retinue
[ ] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
AN - This one feels a bit more rushed than the last couple, not sure why. I don't really want to write out an extensive scene but there is stuff I still want to convey.
Voting open. Will remain open for a few days probably as I'll be doing stuff for the first part of this week.
Dawnblade isn't wrong about half of this stuff, but of course objective and subjective are very different. I'm drawing from many of the common debates across multiple religions about the role of doctrine vs personal morality.
The amusing thing is that Grok has indeed been a cannibal, back when Scorn and Kartha found him some mysterious meat to eat after the Battle of Dreadmist.
In what was nothing more than a continuation of the strange events of the day, you spent the next hour lying more than you ever had in your entire life.
You were not accustomed to deception, nor was it your habit.
You had long known there was a difference between honesty and honour, but it still sat strangely with you. There had been the great lie before Thrall, then the array of lies and deception which had allowed you to navigate your mixture of allegiance to your Clan, the Scarlet Crusade, your people and the cause of the Horde and to Alterac as its Constable.
Honour was never served by stupidity. In military affairs, or in the council chamber, you knew deception was necessary, but it have never struck you till now just how necessary.
You had concluded from the way Dathrohan was shaping the questions that he intended to further extend his control over the military forces of the Alliance. He had designs upon Northrend, you knew, but you'd no idea about the specifics of the campaign. Now was his moment to lock the other kingdoms into the Alliance fully, to draw Stormwind, Quel'thalas and Ironforge into his campaign.
You weren't entirely sure how the trial was intended to do this. Perhaps the Grand Crusader wanted to demonstrate his authority and build his prestige by leading the panel of judges, or somehow shape a narrative.
Then again, it may also be that Dathrohan intended that the trial show the need for new weapons and new alliances. If he could demonstrate that an Orc, and by proxy Orcs in general, could be fast friends and true allies, could he also show that the Nerubians and Drakkari trolls of Northrend could also be allies? You knew little of those peoples, other than their existence, but if they maintained armies they might resist the Lich King.
You found yourself slipping into your best attempt at obligation. It was not the archaic courtesy of Haomarush, nor the basic respect of your subordinates toward you. You were attempting to present yourself as more than merely an Orc, more than merely an alien to the land but as a true ally, or someone who might become one at least.
It grated a little, you had your pride after all. There was no honour in self-aggrandisement and you didn't intend to storm out of the proceedings just because you weren't offered refreshment, but the tone of the questioning was insulting at times. You carried the dignity of a chief and no doubt soon a warchief, and the commander of twenty thousands besides.
No matter, your sword and deeds would teach them better.
"And in all these affairs, what use have you made of death magic?" asked Highforge, his beady eyes glinting.
It was not the first question of its sort. You hadn't specified specific methods in the narration of your journey, but the question went to your thoughts on Dathrohan's aims. If he could demonstrate that you had used Fel magic then the use of such magic by the Crusaders could also be sanctioned. It was strange, seeing the Highlord of the Crusade using the same methods as your father had advocated for the use of the Fel.
"I cannot answer such a question," you replied.
The elf to the right seized on it immediately, leaning forward, "You refuse to answer?" he demanded.
Of the judges, Dathrohan and Tirion were firmly on your side. Wyrmbane seemed impressed at times, yet perturbed at others. Highforge seemed to have a poor opinion of you but had been willing to at least hear our your responses and consider them.
But all through the trial Mehlar Dawnblade had been your greatest detractor, eager to hector and harangue the other judges, frequently interrupting them and making calls of procedure or precedent. It seemed he held you and all you represented to the highest standard.
"I do not refuse," you replied evenly. "It is an unanswerable question. I believe you speak of the Fel. But I say first that the Fel is not 'death magic', which draws primarily from the traditions of what you would recognise as shadow or void magic. Death magic is necromacy, once practiced by some among certain tribes of people but is ultimately the use of shadow magic to animate the dead. The Fel meanwhile was taught to Ner'zhul and to Gul'dan, his apprentice, but the Orcish use of the Fel stems from the Burning Legion's magics, not from the traditions of the Shadowmoon Clan, of whom Ner'zhul was chief. I have never used shadow magic myself, though I have fought alongside those who have, among them many warlocks in my own clan who do not use other magics such as demonology."
"Such distinction is meaningless!" spat Dawnblade. "These are black and evil magics."
The elf was making a fool of himself. The distinction was very relevant, and you even saw several of the more learned priests in the hall nod in agreement at your remark.
"You asked the question, brother," Wyrmbane pointed out. "It be better that you hear the answer. Come now, are there none in this hall which may corroborate this statement, if it be a question of fact?"
Valroth the Inquisitor rose from his seat and bowed, "It is the case, my lords, that the mages of Dalaran have differentiated between types of magic, allocated them to specific categories and in particular forbade the study of necromancy, shadow magic and void magic. This was a field of fringe academic interest and the only one learned in it was the accursed Kel'thuzad himself. In the past the laws of Lordaeron magics were differentiated by the effect and consequence, rather than by the categorisation specifically. It was for this reason that before the Selinite Heresy we made no distinction between a necromancer raising the dead and a priest calling back a soul to the world again."
"It is well that we live in such enlightened times then," said Dathrohan.
You looked to Wyrmbane, who motioned you on.
"You have asked what use I've made of the Fel." you repeated, gathering yourself after the diversion, "I would say that all of my people have been touched by it, have been made stronger by it, thus the colour of my skin which is not the natural colour of the Orcs. I would say that some have taken on more of the Fel than others," and you looked toward Haomarush and Sesk, "but that the use of the Fel is never something I've pursued."
"You have never summoned demons?" Highforge pushed.
You paused then, "As a child my father taught me much of demonology, and I summoned an imp several times at his direction. My father is a skilled demonologist and he thought it proper that I learn such things, but I soon turned toward the sword. That would be the only time I've personally called upon a demon, but as I've explained others under my command have done so at my direction or upon their own initiative and according to their ways of battle."
You wondered that they didn't ask you about Firecalling. You had used it after Naxxramas to purify some of the Crusade's dead. Some firecallers could summon ash remnants, commune with the dead or call spirits. But Bishop Voss sat in the audience and perhaps he'd look poorly on such a question givne that he'd inspected your work and deemed it inoffensive.
"And yet, you tolerate sacrificial magics. Your commander, in this very room, burned living the folk of Alterac for foul rites, is it not so?" Wrymbane asked.
Haomarush made to step forward, sword still in his hand to answer the charge.
"Hold." your voice cut through the air, and the Blademaster stopped, looked to you then nodded, retiring back to his place by the wall.
A murmur had gone through the court and more than one of the Crusaders had tensed.
"I have forbade such rituals and my edicts have yet to be broken." you replied, "Many are the customs of my people, for we are a people of much diversity in practice and tradition. Some I approve of, others I do not. The Bonechewers consume the flesh of their enemies as well as that of their own dead, while the Shattered Hand mutilate themselves. I would do neither, but sacrificial magics are common among almost every Orc clan, to a greater or lesser extent."
Dathrohan himself had led the attack on Brill and burned the town to the ground, slaying the hundreds of Forsaken who sheltered within. Your heart urged you to say it, but this was a time for the mind.
"My learned brothers, surely we can dispense with this line of enquiry? We are here to understand actions, not history." Dathrohan offered.
"On the contrary," said Dawnblade swiftly, "we are here to understand exactly that!" he turned to you again, "In all your explanations you've never repudiated an action or a belief. You've defended, diverted, said that this or that action had to be taken to achieve an aim. What is your belief? What is the core of your true self? You twist and turn like a serpent."
"I have always done what seems best to me. I have always tried to act with honour, to uphold the traditions of my people and of my clan." you replied.
"And so," Dawnblade crowed, "you claim to be the only one to do so. You claim moral superiority, that your actions cannot be question, that your failures be excused as imperatives and your successes as providence. Would you put your judgment above that of so many famous men and claim that you know more than they all?" The elf paused for breath, addressing the crowd more than you now, "We are given laws from above, and by the reason of our own minds, not through mysticism or impulsive action. There must be a code to live by, even among such a primitive race as yours. You live without codification, without sanction save by that of your priests. By your own word, this is precisely how your kind even came to our world, because they had no laws and nothing to constrain the corruption of your people by the Burning Legion! I ask you candidly and without horns, do you repudiate the actions of your people and the errors they contained?"
He seemed almost to recover after, as if a runner upon the finish line, but before you could answer he spoke again.
"The Light is reason. The Light is purity. The Light is the love of the world, returned and unwavering. You claim an upbringing which would have any human put to death for heresy and apostasy. You excuse the actions of your people, not just the historical but the contemporary too. You have said you do not practice cannibalism as the savages of your kin do, but if you were one of that tribe, would you do so? By you own word, your people are ruled by custom. Yet, there is a reason the Light teaches us obedience. We are to achieve the promises of salvation through works and through prayer. We are to be uplifted and to uplift to grace and glory. You cannot judge yourself by mysticism and inspiration otherwise you'd be little more than a child, turning this way and that to pursue the nearest trinket you see!"
Your frustration grew as he spoke. You made some answers, but none that satisfied Dawnblade. He seemed to seek perfection yet be frustrated it remained out of reach. Such was the way of the world, you knew, for there was little beneath the stars which held to such standards.
"I fear we reach an impasse." Highforge said at length. "I do not agree or sanction all that has been said here, by either party, but by your own word you condemn yourself. We can only believe you righteous if we believe you, which in turn transforms your actions. We have only your own attestation as evidence to credit your words, but without evidence to them we cannot decide their veracity."
"This is not a trial of evidence." Tirion said, rising a little from his malaise.
"That is so." Highforge conceded, "But I think it best now that we retire for the day to consider these matters."
Dathrohan signalled his agreement and the whole room rose again for the judges to troop out, with you turning to leave afterward, the ranks of the Crusade filing out after you to disperse through the city.
A weight sat heavy on your chest as you stood there, looking out over the square of Andorhal.
Teach me to stand strong but to bend with the breeze, I put aside bright iron and remember the waters.
"What was that?" Haomarush asked from beside you, "Your own composition?"
You hadn't realised you'd spoken it. "No its-" you paused, "I don't remember, some elder perhaps."
"A worthy verse." came the Blademaster's response.
You were reminded of Sesk's words in the cave on your way to the demongate. He had said you would never truly master the Spirit of Earth, and that you'd have trouble enough with the Spirit of Water too.
Your life had been laid out for you, in a way. Your name meant 'Deep Heart', and you'd spent long enough in contemplation for it to stick. From childhood you'd been able to see snippets of the future, especially in combat. Had it made you resistant to challenge? If you could see what was to happen there was no need to change, after all, for what would be, would be.
No, that wasn't it you realised.
Were you more alike to Sesk then than he'd thought? You looked to him, standing with his blade over his shoulder in an easy stance, the fading light reflecting on his ornaments. He held such hatred in his heart for his brother, yet had made little effort to seek the orc out to kill him. It was strange indeed, but that was what Sesk explained as the mindset of the Winds, to do or not to do, but to wave and dance between decisions and certainties.
You might acknowledge some of Dawnblade's points. It was true that Gul'dan's treachery had been enabled by a lack of codified laws among your people, but you were hardly in a mood to contemplate such a thing deeply.
"This trip has given me much to think about." you mused.
Everything from the state of your clothing to the reforms you'd been considering for the Horde, to the question of magical categorisation and the nature of morality.
You were drained somewhat, you knew, but a battle did not end when you desired it.
It might be well indeed to use this opportunity, even before you there were several points of interest.
Choose 1:
[ ] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
[ ] Try to find Dathrohan to demand answers to his purposes.
[ ] Retire to your own quarters to reflect on the day's events with your retinue
[ ] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
AN - This one feels a bit more rushed than the last couple, not sure why. I don't really want to write out an extensive scene but there is stuff I still want to convey.
Voting open. Will remain open for a few days probably as I'll be doing stuff for the first part of this week.
Dawnblade isn't wrong about half of this stuff, but of course objective and subjective are very different. I'm drawing from many of the common debates across multiple religions about the role of doctrine vs personal morality.
The amusing thing is that Grok has indeed been a cannibal, back when Scorn and Kartha found him some mysterious meat to eat after the Battle of Dreadmist.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Didn't read this till after I'd posted the chapter but happily it does indeed cover a bit of that.
One general statement would be that I'm not a massive fan of the recent trend in Warcraft lore to largely divorce the morality of magic from its categorisation. This happened in a lot of the lore I was reading from Shadowlands, and appears to be continuing with the War Within. There's lots of people going about shouting about Domination or Order magic but it's just completely absent any moral weight, it's more like they're deciding whether to get a diesel or petrol car etc.
- Location
- England
[x] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
I think this is the most in line with his characterisations, he's spent a great deal of time around people, what he needs now is some solitude. A walk and a think about what this all means for him and the future.
Lovely chapter, great work as always!
I think this is the most in line with his characterisations, he's spent a great deal of time around people, what he needs now is some solitude. A walk and a think about what this all means for him and the future.
Lovely chapter, great work as always!
- Location
- PA
Hrrrm…I want to throw a wrench in things. Grok's pretty sure Dathrohan is arguing for Fel use, but I think it's about time we made like a Burning Blade and burnt his hands some.
And I have, to a degree an angle I wish to pursue.
Effectively, Elf boy makes some good points. I would see if he would be able and willing to attempt instruction of the Orcs instead. Potentially twisting the impact Dathrohan wants away from the actual occurrence.
[X] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
-[X]Seek out Dawnblade, and ask him, plainly, what he would have you do to rectify the problems within your people. Arguing over what the Orcs are is not the same as charting out future paths.
And I have, to a degree an angle I wish to pursue.
Effectively, Elf boy makes some good points. I would see if he would be able and willing to attempt instruction of the Orcs instead. Potentially twisting the impact Dathrohan wants away from the actual occurrence.
[X] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
-[X]Seek out Dawnblade, and ask him, plainly, what he would have you do to rectify the problems within your people. Arguing over what the Orcs are is not the same as charting out future paths.
- Location
- barking
There is a lot of talk from a group that can't notice a dreadlord 5 cm away/joke
Grok is an honest soul this level of lying ins't natural to him but he's willing to do so.
They share similar methods for a reason.
Ah he's one of those people.
Dawnblade is making himself look like a idiot which is good
Grok's people have done stuff but so have the Red Crusade and alliance.
Ah self righteousness how great to see you.
It is a cool verse.
The introspection is interesting to see.
It feels like it's rushed because Grok doesn't want to deal with politics so he kinda zoned out at spots.
It's going to make them look really really dumb when they learn about that.
- Location
- barking
Also its kinda funny that dawnblade is our main accusor the guy who had people defile uther the light bringers tomb
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
The most aggressive people tend to be hypocrites, fanatics or both.
That said I need to reread, I'm a bit out of date.
My initial impression is to this
[] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
Yeah people can make good points and be assholes about it too. My concern is that we're already kinda engaged in a...well for lack of better term unfuckening of the orcs and their culture (whether Grok wants it or not), my concern is whether Dawnblade is at all interested in adjusting modulating his dogmatism.
This entire screed kinda exemplifies the problem with his points, cause while he seems able to recognise that Grok has an upbringing unlikely to produce anything akin to what he knows he doesn't seem willing right now to factor in how that impacts everything else, or be willing to see if the mysticism he derides has something to it.
I'm not against the idea of talking to him, my question to ya'll is what role is each person meant to play in Balnazar's little play?
Tirion's is obvious his weakness, exhaustion and the failing of his light (and Balazar's own admission of weakness) there is meant to send the message that they're unable to rely on it in their current circumstances.
So what does the artificer and Dawnblade do? Is Dawnblade meant to just be the aggressive interjector? The unfriendly and unreasonable one towards someone who has seemingly earned a fairly decent reputation?
@FractiousDay In case I missed it what seemed to be the room's reactions to dawnblade's comments, if Grok was paying attention? I'm sure he'd have gotten a fairly standing ovation about any other orc, but any other orc wouldn't be standing here right now...cept maybe Thrall?
- Location
- barking
gonna be honest don't think any other orc would stand there even thrall cause this is a group of zealots and racists who we have semi bonds with cause of groks hard work with them
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Look I know I'm hard on the guy, but I'm pretty sure if there's any Orc that they'd give the time of day too it's him. + lets be real this is a situation he's more suited for anyway.
Sigh. I do hope we get to talk at some point. What a fucking mess.
- Location
- PA
Dawnblade is there to further discredit the Light-he's a diehard doing diehard things but his inflexibility is meant to make the Light seem less appealing to us and unable to mix. It's Light or Nothing! Is meant to be Dawnblade's deal. And that prevents the idea of say, cultural exchange that might allow the Light to receive reinforcements that might let them just recover their strength. It's arguably the same plan that was done to the Orcs- break the native traditions, slide in the Fel to corrupt, and then let the natural talents mix with the Fel to reveal the new role these guys will take in the Leigon.
The thing is, there ARE culture things Geok is unprepared to answer, and I figure letting the Elf who's otherwise getting ostracized offer advice might provide Grok, if naught else, a place of 'yeah I don't wanna be that, let's go the other way.' But more importantly we might be able to negotiate third paths that might let Dawnblade and the rest of the Light Crew pull some cool moves.
The thing is, there ARE culture things Geok is unprepared to answer, and I figure letting the Elf who's otherwise getting ostracized offer advice might provide Grok, if naught else, a place of 'yeah I don't wanna be that, let's go the other way.' But more importantly we might be able to negotiate third paths that might let Dawnblade and the rest of the Light Crew pull some cool moves.
- Location
- barking
its not about being hard on thrall, the scarlets just kicked out the forsken which was part of the hordes power projection and the fact that the scarlets might tolerate grok I don't think they would offer the same branch to any other orc especially doomhammers heir thats just my opinion there
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Who knows maybe it involves zapping a certain high crusader with light and discovering the bat winged bastard beneath.
The genuine problem though is Balnazar is doing a...lets be frank frustratingly fantastic job in most regards. When he's invariably exposed this is going to suck.
But yeah M'kay I'm on board with that. Fingers crossed he's the sort of person whose willing to tone things down when he sees that what he's saying is getting through to people.
Eh, he's done quite a bit himself and if nothing else he's a charismatic guy who's good with humies. But not relevant ultimately.
- Location
- barking
[X] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
Indeed Balnazar is frustratingly competent. It shows just how insidious Dreadlords are.
Who'd a thunk that immortal agents of deception can engage in effective deep cover infiltration campaigns.
[x] Seek solitude and contemplation, venture outside the city to a nearby shrine.
Lets search for more inner enlightenment and hopefully pull out even more eloquent poetry like what was said after leaving the Court.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
All of this is so much a theatre representation.
How can we stop dancing to Datrohan's tune "for our own good, or else" as naturally dictated by the circumstances?
I don't know what contemplation does for us. Either we speak to him, or we speak to one of the judges, no?
[X] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
-[X]Seek out Dawnblade, and ask him, plainly, what he would have you do to rectify the problems within your people. Arguing over what the Orcs are is not the same as charting out future paths
How can we stop dancing to Datrohan's tune "for our own good, or else" as naturally dictated by the circumstances?
I don't know what contemplation does for us. Either we speak to him, or we speak to one of the judges, no?
[X] Attempt to find some of the more hostile judges to persuade them of your honour.
-[X]Seek out Dawnblade, and ask him, plainly, what he would have you do to rectify the problems within your people. Arguing over what the Orcs are is not the same as charting out future paths