Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

wonder how much the culture around our horde is adapted (if already shown well ignore) cause we have things like the light which is all about conviction (part of the reason arthas lost his abilty to us it was he lost faith in what he was doing was right not the fact he was doing evil), the fact we have open fel courrpted people as close allies (haurmash, and fel dad with his recruits his sending over), pretty brutal tribes even without the fel courrpted stuff like the blackrock clan and dragonmaw clan (blackrock most likely I fell of killed our main char for being born weaker an dragonmaw were slavers) then theirs the human (from two different nations) and trolls
 
I huff hopium daily that Feldad has thrown off the shackles of poor leadership and is carving his own path like us. With us.
That's just it. He was born to leaders he saw in his youth where Gul' Dan was the most inspirational in Feldad being a warlock despite how he left Doomhammer out to dry.

Then it's the others. Black hand, Doomhammer, Ner' Zhul and then Thrall.

As he avoided the purges he wasn't inducted into the new shadow council until later but he also noticed things once he had a son.

Basically the leaders he served under doomed the horde in some fashion or another including Gul' Dan and his master's the Burning Legion. who messed up his home world Draenor.

He possibly didn't thought as much on that until his son who's not into the warlock profession believes in the dangers of the fel as espoused by Thrall that he needs to justify and evaluate his own position.

So now he may not believe as much in the mission but in fact uses the demons for the fortune of his clan and the horde but in giving the ancestral weapon to his son trusts he will revive the blademaster traditions.
 
I do not consider Feldad having abandoned the Shadow Council a sure and done thing. He is still very much bound to the Fel, and mutated by it. When push comes to shove and the order comes, what will he do? We were not with him for a very long time, it's not like we have been his moral compass.
 
No, but we do represent a powerful asset that is loyal to him, rather than the council. At the very least we're giving him options.
 
Who's to say shadow council rivals are messing with him when they sent Jubeithos at Dreadmist?

All we have from his clan is just more questions.
 
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Nice to soon have some direct info about going's on in Kalimdor even if Feldad might not give us the whole picture.
 
I think most importantly Grok gets Feldad's blessings to be a chief and more since the alliance has given him a title too.

In fact it might prove to be a useful link for Feldad to get into the Kirin Tor for access to more forbidden books.
 
I am starting to think that Neeru 'Feldad' Fireblade is the protagonist of the story, that at the end will have to make a Big Choice for the world like Commander Shepard in Mass Effect 3 (only with a much better story ofc)

We are just the supporting characters:tongue:
 
I think most importantly Grok gets Feldad's blessings to be a chief and more
That's a tricky question. A chief of what? Neeru still holds the title of the clan chief, and he can't designate an exile a chief of Burning Blade while nominally under Thrall's command. He can't openly denounce Thrall either.

A plausible out would be to recognize the Eastern Kingdoms as a separate political entity, which allows a separate Warchief with no ties to Thrall's Horde... and technically, no ties to Neeru's Burning Blade clan, allowing us to be the leader of our own clan that might or might not bear the same name.

It might also be time to induct more blademasters next turn.
What's the rush? We are on our way to get most of those who are in contact with the Burning Blade this turn; there was a roll for that.
 
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That's a tricky question. A chief of what? Neeru still holds the title of the clan chief, and he can't designate an exile a chief of Burning Blade while nominally under Thrall's command as a Warchief. He can't openly denounce Thrall either.

Most likely out would be to recognize the Eastern Kingdoms as a separate political entity, which allows a separate Warchief with no ties to Thrall's Horde... and technically, no ties to Neeru's Burning Blade clan, allowing us to be the leader of our own clan that might or might not bear the same name.
So the Light Blade Clan?
What's the rush? We are on our way to get most of those who are in contact with the Burning Blade this turn; there was a roll for that.
It's an auspicious time to do so once Feldad gives his blessings.

Though the way those timed missions work I doubt we'd get to that.
 
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So the Light Blade Clan?
Name pending. We promised Tirion we won't advertise our connection to the Light.. well, lightly.

That aside, there is a matter of our banner. There are some advantages to keeping the name and the tradition.

I think a new clan would probably be better, if only because we expect to have to come up with our own tradition and rules. We already have forbidden sacrifice, and are trying to put a code of honor together. That is rather different from a system of belief, say, the Elders at Desolace espouse.

I think this is to be the split of the Burning Blade into the Blademaster and Warlock branches. They get all the esoteric knowledge, and we get to smash skulls for Honor.
 
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I made this joke before and will make it again
alliance - we declearing war on the horde.
alliance members- which horde sir
Alliance - the horde,
- do you mean the fel horde, the dark horde, the kaliondor horde or the alterac horde (and for fucture) or the iron horde each of which call themselves the horde an rest mere pretenders to the name
alliance- the orcs really need to stop using that word to name their factions I swear

now as for the bladmasters most of them are already allied with the burning blade only a few aren't an we are already training the next generation
 
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Name pending. We promised Tirion we won't advertise our connection to the Light.. well, lightly.

That aside, there is a matter of our banner. There are some advantages to keeping the name and the tradition.

I think a new clan would probably be better, if only because we expect to have to come up with our own tradition and rules. We already have forbidden sacrifice, and are trying to put a code of honor together. That is rather different from a system of belief, say, the Elders at Desolace espouse.

I think this is to be the split of the Burning Blade into the Blademaster and Warlock branches.
Sun Blade then.

Other than that I think there's no avoiding the fel Grok will need the specialists on his side especially when it involves wrangling rogue demons like that magical prison or despoiling a land already corrupted by death.

Shoring up magical supprt's going to be hard with those ticking time bomb missions.
 
Other than that I think there's no avoiding the fel
That's what the Burning Blade is for; we will keep close ties with them if only because their leader is our father. But Grok will never understand it quite as they do, and will never think as they do, so it feels right for us/them to have different values.

now as for the bladmasters most of them are already allied with the burning blade only a few aren't an we are already training the next generation
Well, I entertained a thought of having a class of 'nobles of the robe' as administrative aides/messengers/diplomats... which, given that we're orcs, would have to append 'with a big sword' to their title to project authority. Blademasters fall naturally into the role, and we might want them to be our disciples if we want them to adhere to our ideas and principles.

We'll see how it turns out.
 
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Just wondering when the option of artifical aging human infants would ever be considered to bring them up to fighting age to be drafted whether it's with arcane or fel means.
Given that the vast majority of humans follow the Light, it would be unlikely this would be permitted. In theory, there's no explicit reason why it would be impossible, for example I wrote the Argus Wake in as doing experiments with fel infused animals etc, but yea I doubt it would be acceptable on any sort of larger scale.
The Legion had all the time to convert an entire people while in Azeroth they only had time to convert nations whether through the cult or undeath which can be debated from certain questionable points of view to be deemed positively too. Lordaeron got the brunt of it which reminds me but their population is like really fucked right?
I would say we don't necessarily know how and why the Legion decided to move as they did. Medivh is assassinating mages before the First War actually starts, and Manneroth had to have gotten to Draenor to give his blood to Guldan at some point. The Orcs destroyed all the other races fairly comprehensively, and then wrecked the ecology of Draenor, that would have taken a couple of years maybe.

Lordaeron's population isn't that bad actually. They were a very big kingdom and therefore had a lot of land, and a lot of potential enclaves. They were able to maintain a large amount of their strength in various bastions like Tyr's Hand or Mardenhold and therefore benefited a lot from being a strong kingdom and being able to absorb the losses. It was still devastating, but the Legion weren't necessarily interested in destroying the whole Kingdom, they just wanted to break them quickly and then move on. That's why Arthas goes back in Frozen Throne and is planning to complete the Scourging.
It kinda is. I am more of a proponent of practical changes through choice. The previous policies may have been wrong of have gone in undesirable ways, sure, but what is the lesson to take from it? Not a lesson one gets in their head by contemplating their navel, but a lesson one implements into the structure he is in charge of.

Give us choices where we can put this to use, where we can finally give our views solid shape so that they could be tested, and their consequences examined.

I have my hopes on -- Runewatcher, was it? -- forcing our hand in certain regards, but I wonder what it could be that'd make us say something definitive about the place of the Fel and warlocks in our society.
So the big big problem of this is the engagement by readers. Really, these sorts of questions would be complex legal and constutional wrangling, which wouldn't be how Grok would approach it for a start. He's inflexible, as others have noted, but he understands that there's clearly some sort of mechanism that he needs to consider. He doesn't have a Lord Chancellor or similar legal advisor, nor does he have a governance thinktank who could assist him. He's got shaman and elders, that's his consultive assemblies. In the next chapter we'll go a little bit more into that sort of thing, but it remains that I would then have to write out several chapters of significant decisions, which means I'd have to go to more effort to track the laws Grok is doing etc. It would be, in a word, fiddly.

I might, I suppose, approach it in the same way as the 'laws' tab on something like Crusader Kings 2. You can decide whether your kingdom will have this or that succession, or where the balance of taxes will sit between clergy, nobility and burghers. I could do that, but I don't think that would be effective.

Nor is Grok a dictatorial guy. He understands that there's a lot of nuance, and will comprehend that the office of Warchief probably needs some checks on it. He's also from a clan that is better at history than others, so he's aware of some of the previous constituional reforms that have taken place.

I suppose I'll have to do a info post on this at some point.

I can certianly see how there could be some specific benefits to codifying certain issues. For example, you could codify the Mak'gora and specify that you're only allowed to challenge sideways and up, not down in heirachies, etc etc. You'd still get people finding ways around that eg 'you have insulted me but are a military inferior, as such my lieutenant will challenge you instead'.

There are radical and traditionalist factions within the Orcish society. I've mentioned the Circle of Elders before and Feldad will be discussing it in the next chapter, but they would be a conservatist and reactionary forum dedicated to carefully managing the traditions of the Horde. I can see Grok, or others, going before such an assembly and bringing a matter to them for a decision. Say you want to start a new clan, you might have to go before them to legitimise that clan or otherwise be accused of outlawry.

Similarly, I can see Grok empowering such a body because he's very much aware of the dangers of having powerful warchiefs. I can see them coming up with a semi-codified constituational settlement that establishes policies toward clan formation, the use of particular magics, diplomatic policy, the independance and legal remit of chiefs, the maintenance of certain 'ancient rights and traditions' of the various tribes etc.

If you're going to do that, you probably want to test it, and then implement it when you've dealt with Rend. Otherwise people would view Grok as an upstart etc.

I'm quite interested in these sort of things, that's why I've written so many info posts about orcish government and culture, so I'm quite happy to discuss it in narrative chapters occasionally. I do acknoledge though that there may be frustration with such things from some readers, so perhaps I'll seek views on that at some point.
Edit: I do pray for a description of Thunder Axe fortress
Not at the moment, but maybe in a while when Grok makes it over back to Kalimdor.
Damn this one's probably sending me back on another re-read.
Feel free to ask any qs. There's a lot of words and as the author I'm the one who knows them best lol
Also, this is before we converted the Dragonmaw prisoners to our cause, right? This is a scene I'd like to see first hand. I know what motivates Grok's lieutenants, and I an imagine what they tell the grunts to ensure their loyalty, but this is not how Grok does things. I want to see how he turns people he just fought to his cause, and possibly against the one they considered their Warchief just a few months ago. Does what he say resonate with people, or are there other factors at work?
This is after. The Dragonmaw one I glossed over, to be honest, but I'm quite happy to write a reflective discussion at the start of the next turn. There would essentially be a variety of things from Grok's excellent reputation, a broad acceptance that alleigances might change given people like Runeweaver changing sides, and certain guarentees from Grok that he wouldn't make them fight their own clan etc. that sort of stuff.
wonder how much the culture around our horde is adapted (if already shown well ignore) cause we have things like the light which is all about conviction
It is significantly changing, at least in Grok's bit of the world. For one thing, although some people might grumble a bit, all of his orcs accept the alliance with the humans and general inter-species cooperation. In other areas things are changing too, for example Thrall's Horde will have undergone a significant period of political upheaval, as discussed by Feldad in the next chapter.
That's a tricky question. A chief of what? Neeru still holds the title of the clan chief, and he can't designate an exile a chief of Burning Blade while nominally under Thrall's command. He can't openly denounce Thrall either.

A plausible out would be to recognize the Eastern Kingdoms as a separate political entity, which allows a separate Warchief with no ties to Thrall's Horde... and technically, no ties to Neeru's Burning Blade clan, allowing us to be the leader of our own clan that might or might not bear the same name.

While you could, having the name of the Burning Blade behind you is a significant advantage. Grok's exile has also grown rather thin recently.
 
While you could, having the name of the Burning Blade behind you is a significant advantage. Grok's exile has also grown rather thin recently.
gee I wonder why, its not like the guy has like 10 thousand followers and has clear favour with mutiple heads of states (or well the puppet masters of said states in the case of the crusade and stormwind) most people would go yeah "exile"
 
Grok's exile is probably one of those things everyone knows is a farce at this point but no one wants to be the first to call it out as such.
 
Lordaeron's population isn't that bad actually. They were a very big kingdom and therefore had a lot of land, and a lot of potential enclaves. They were able to maintain a large amount of their strength in various bastions like Tyr's Hand or Mardenhold and therefore benefited a lot from being a strong kingdom and being able to absorb the losses. It was still devastating, but the Legion weren't necessarily interested in destroying the whole Kingdom, they just wanted to break them quickly and then move on. That's why Arthas goes back in Frozen Throne and is planning to complete the Scourging.
I think they did actually when a lot of the scourge missions was to continue fucking lordaeron up that a lot of the land there is now called the plague lands not to mention their capital is a dead capital.

While all it takes for the scourge to increase their number is by killing others and then raising them up in undeath, the humans of lordaeron need to procreate and those take time.
 
Demon Gate Interlude 3
Demon Gate Interlude 3

You father took it all in without commend, nodding or shaking his head along with your narrative. "Hm." he grunted again. "In situations like these I find it helpful to organise my thoughts properly. What did you want when you contacted me and sought to open this gate?"

Your father had taught you rhetoric and logic as a child, or tried to at least before he grew frustrated with your insistence on following honour's path in the hypothetical situations he posed. It was not to say Neeru Fireblade was a cold-hearted individual, indeed he possessed all the savagery and rage of your race, but he was better than most. After all, a demonologist prone to wild swings of emotion would soon be overcome by his summonings.

His question cut to the heart of it though, and it brought you back down to what was important. "I want your advice, your thoughts and your recommendations." you began, "I want news of Kalimdor and of our people, and ideally I'd like the reinforcements we spoke about when I left."

Your father nods firmly, "Then those you will have. The last will take the longest… let me see."

The warlock steps back, slightly away from the centre and regards the portal. You follow his gaze, for while the portal on your side was a rough-cut oval, the one in Desolace appeared to be a large stone supported by two smaller ones. How did the different sized portals fit into each other? If you entered at the very corner of the Desolace square portal, how could you exit from an oval portal in Alterac?

That was only one strange point you'd thought of, and when you made to examine the columns you saw ancient pictograms of cavalry, no, of centaurs. The portal must have been made from old standing stones cut by the centaurs. Such works would have been sacred, and your father must have transported them there, for as you looked at the architecture of the ruins around the portal you recognised elf work. It was likely an old settlement built on ley-lines, for such a place would be easier to construct portals or other magical works.

Your father begins muttering, the fingers on his artificial hand twirling and poking at glyphs he summons or draws in fire, stark against the world.

"This would only last a few hours unattended." your father notes, nodding toward the portal, "Pay attention, I've learned much of portal making in the last few months and you may learn something." he began to make gestures you recognise now from your basic understanding of demonology. "I plan to summon more and greater demons in future, and that necessitated a greater understanding of the principles of arcane magic in the first place. Portals need energy, but I've found that a greater control over that energy has been very useful."

The Hand of Iruxos then was a magical artefact which enhanced your father's ability to control such energies. Had he been studying the elven ruins in this area? Perhaps, but wherever the Hand had come from, you could feel it's power. While you're no arcanist, you can feel the energies flowing toward the portal. Then, with a sudden grasp his hand closes with tongues of fire flowing out, then forward as your father points, marshalling great energies that he's grasped from somewhere.

"Are you taking energy from the ley lines?" you ask him. Some Orcs call them the Earthblood, for energy pumps around Azeroth under the earth in the same way blood around a body, but your father is entirely familiar with the more precise terms the Highborn elves used to develop Arcane magic.

Not-Fire flows from the Hand of Iruxos into the structure of the portal and you feel the energies around you roaring, then immediately dying down, tired in some way to the Hand.

"You're controlling it somehow?" you murmured, looking at the demonic runes on your father's fist.

"It is only a matter of will." he replies, though his voice is a little fatigued. "As are many things. How many warriors do you command?" he asked, eyes turning on you.

"About ten thousand Orcs." you replied, "And a few thousand others."

"Good, we shall see how many I might wrest for you." your father said, and in a moment of concentration you saw shadows, invisible demons no doubt, flying out across the land. "I have considerable influence over the forces here and with the infusion of energy the portal will remain for three days, perhaps. That will be long enough to gather several of the warbands."

You said nothing. The words implied that your father did not in fact command all the Burning Blade in Desolace…

"You must prepare the way, I've ordered several companies to quit battle and make their way here. You'll need to see them through to whatever base you have." your father said, and you nodded, striding swiftly back through the portal and giving the commands, before returning to your father. You'd order Haomarush to see to it and the Demonsword would prepare and direct whatever reinforcements your father was sending.

It was an immediate result, but the implication was worrying. No matter, you would face it all the same.

"Now we wait." Neeru continued, "It will take some time for the warbands to get here, but that leaves us time to speak. Come, let us sit."

You followed him a stone, half buried in the grey dirt of Desolace. Your father's new hand left deep burns in the rock as he steadied himself to sit down. It hadn't burned his clothes, or you though. Could he control when it let forth fire?

"You will have many questions." He told you, "Would that we had longer, and could discuss them at greater length. I would enjoy hearing of your successes, just as I would simply enjoy time with you. I'll send for food later, though the fare is poor enough here… No matter, no matter."

You father sighed, looking over toward the distant silhouette of Thunder Axe Fortress.

"Even a short time is good." you replied, smiling at him. In truth, you'd have preferred to relax and to enjoy the company of family and kin for longer as well, but both of you had many concerns.

He nodded slowly. "There is much I should tell you. Much I will tell you… Much I could not, would not tell you before. I have been unworthy, I realised this some time ago but my pride stopped me from voicing it. Recent events have shaken that pride substantially and I find myself in a much different position to before." he paused, "Hm. Let us speak of Kalimdor first, for you must understand some of my position to understand what I might advise you to do."

"What happened once I left? What of Thrall, of Orgrimmar?" you asked.

"I called the Circle of Elders." your father replied darkly.

Your eyebrows rose. The body was much as the name suggested, a loose group of the most senior Orcs in the Horde with many shaman, but also elements from the other professions. Chiefs would join it if they passed on their rank to another, while in other cases very senior warriors who were too weak to fight, but still wanted to serve their community would join. The institution was one of the most ancient of your people but had very few specific powers, and was governed by few rules. In the days before Warchiefs the Circle would meet to discuss matters of relevance to all Orcs, such as coordination of military action against the Ogres. The Circle could declare outlawry, call for war or peace, censure a shaman or chief in a way no other group could, or even make sanction against a whole clan. The Mok'Nathal had gone before the Circle as a group to gain acceptance among the Orcs, while Blackhand had used it more as a means of controlling discontent, and had stripped the group of much of its power. To Thrall though, it was a consultive assembly which had not formally met in many years, partly because your father would have significant power there as the Elder Warlock of the Horde, and because Thrall greatly distrusted the assembly and the danger of Orcs calling for war. That your father had called it without Thrall's sanction was significant indeed.

"Thrall spent much time in meditation after the March of Forneus, and my power was ascendant after I defeated the Elemental. Saurfang was with me, as were many of the Blackrock and I went among the New Clan speaking of new lands and settlements they could claim." Your father said. You could well believe the last point, for the New Clan were generally in great poverty due to their lack of community connections and reliable sources of support. They'd have jumped at the chance to advance themselves though war.

"They counselled that we march on the Merchant Coast and subjugate the humans there. I thought that foolish but I supported it till Thrall was forced to bestir himself and oppose the matter. I thought maybe to have Thrall removed by the assent of the Circle and place Saurfang there, but they refused me. It was a sting, I'll not deny that, but I took no injury other than the one to my pride… The Warchief has been acting more like a shaman than as a war-leader for some time, and while some of what he's done has been valuable to our people, in the meantime we lost Ashenvale and we've been mostly pushed out of the Stonetalon Mountains." Your father continued.

"The Kal'dorei struck?" you asked.

Your father nodded, "All was chaos after Forneus' attack, it was easy for the Sentinels to sweep down on the few settlements we had there. Many of the Warsong were slain in useless battles and crept back wounded. You see, I had long suspected Thrall sought to destroy our clan, and knew for both the obvious reasons, and for other reasons I shall explain shortly, that I must prevent it. I could not do so openly, for he outmanoeuvred me until you took the blame and the exile, but this time I was able to tie him in knots. I called the Circle of Elders, I laid a dozen matters, great and small before them and had witnesses speak for my causes, even Thrall's allies swore by the Spirits and had to speak the truth. Thrall is weak now. The Circle has not dissolved and I brought a number of his secrets and failures to light. His position is secure but the Circle didn't approve of a number of measures and they've constrained him greatly, and made that known."

Once you might have called that dishonourable. You still thought it was, for while you could lie if you needed to you had never stooped to skulking and intrigues in the shadows for gain.

"To have my son and heir go into exile gave me great moral authority." your father continued, "I led forces to attack the Quillboar and burned Razonfen Downs to ashes. You destroyed the Kolkar, and those two moves made the Barrens largely secure. That gave the Horde breathing room, for if the Quillboar and Centaur had continued to assail us Orgrimmar would have starved in short order. Thrall has been continually caught on the back foot but I've been working with Nazgrel, who incidentally gave me a very touching public apology for his treatment of you, to retrench our lines and frontiers. The Horde is concentrated now, and more secure. I've made my own alliances too, the Grimtotem tribe have been both friend and foe. Their matron has spoken against me in the Circle, but we've fought alongside them many a time. It is well, I think, for even if they don't view us as friends, there is no faction in the Horde that does not give our clan the respect we deserve."

"And what of you?" you asked, "You speak as if you've lost influence when it would seem to me that you've gained it."

"That is complex." Neeru replied. "I am perceived as too aggressive, too close to the Fel, too hostile to Thrall. Few would willingly approach me to make alliance or offer concessions, instead I must go to them and extract what I can. I and our clan are more famous than before, but folk are more wary of us, save for those with whom we are already firmly allied, namely the Blackrock and the Shattered Hand. It is a misstep on my part, and I can constrain my pride enough to admit that."

Looking at him it would be difficult for anyone not to distrust him, you thought. If such a figure approached he would be distrusted by most, the prejudice against the Fel being strong in some areas of the Horde. You understood what he meant though, the culture of your people was complex indeed.

"I was successful at least in obliterating any chance that Thrall might have taken action against our clan." Neeru continued, "Power and influence are more widely diffused now, and it is for the better. We are less decisive, less agile for more must be consulted before decisions are made, but that means it is impossible for any individual to make a decision which could have such harsh impact on a single clan or group, or even an individual."

And there was why you could not call it dishonourable. If you faced such a challenge you might have challenged Thrall to Mak'gora, but that would hardly have solved the problem. Your father had at least gotten a result, even if it wasn't the one he'd sought.

"All of that passed quickly." your father explained, "Much occurred in a short space of time, but then we started to get news of you. News that you were speaking to the humans, triumphing over the Scourge and so on. You arranged for the liberation of the Forsaken, another blow to Thrall and you defeated Mograine. After that you fought in Mak'gora against a chief and blademaster, and also defeated the Frostwolves. I speak briefly of these things due to the needs of time, but this is not to say I should speak briefly of them. You deserve to be lauded by the Horde for what you've done. In a year you achieved more for the recognition of our people among far nations, than Thrall did in almost a decade with his mewling diplomacy with the Proudmoore."

"I did what seemed right to me at the time." you said, "And while I might have done differently, I am proud of my deeds, yes."

"You should be." your father said, "I am." He smiled, reaching for your shoulder with his remaining natural hand, and you clasped the scaled limb there and smiled back. "Your legend has grown and I have come three times before the Circle of Elders to speak of you. It has been a blow each time to Thrall. Eitrigg spoke well of you when he learned that you were fighting alongside Tirion Fordring. I was not there that day, but it would have given much to have seen Thrall's face. Many have spoken for your actions though, asking why, if a young exile like you can do it, why the Horde cannot have better relations, relations of honour and equality, with the humans. It has been a matter of much debate among our people."

"I'm glad to hear it." you reply simply. If you had to show them the way, you would. The path of honour was not an easy one, perhaps not as easy as these greybeards would have thought it, but at least they were thinking about it. Today's elders had been yesterday's senior warriors, and perhaps it would make them think more about their own actions in the First and Second Wars.

No. It was not enough to think such a thing, so you said it instead. "I have learned, as I have travelled, that I am discontent with the Horde today. I want more for our people. I want more than scrabbling around in the dust, speaking of glories but being drunk on our own stories."

Your father smiled, but it was a sad smile this time. "You have the optimism of youth, my son. You will think differently in time perhaps, but treasure those hopes for now." He shook his head, "Now comes that which I have not told you, but that which you must know, if you would have my advice." While for much of the conversation your father has been gazing off and simply speaking to the air, now he turned to you and fixed you with his gaze.

"I shall speak simply and without prevarication, for I wish to be clear." your father said flatly. "Our clan are demon-worshippers and I am not the chief but rather a mere slave among the other slaves of the Burning Legion."
 
To elaborate on the population of Lordaeron to what I can speculate is the damage once Arthas was through with it. I think more than half of the population has been killed off or converted to undead. Starting with the infected grains it was a slow encroaching move until Stratholme where Arthas just decided to euthanise the city's population. Then after he set out for Northend and back he proceeded to also wipe out Lordaeron's capital raising the dead in undeath before moving on to continuing killing off more of Lordaeron's resistance against the scourge including in the expansion where he prevented refugees from fleeing into the mountains.

The Forsaken also played a part in probably killing off more of the fighting manpower of the Alliance once they thought they killed off Balnazzar backstabbing Garithos (though he thought he was in a position to evict them) before likely killing his force.

Needless to say even after all of Lordaeron is reclaimed, Danrothan who's already fielding sanctified undead, may as part of needing more meathshields for the expedition to Northrend, will endorse magic artifical aging more children so as to get more bodies into the warfront and reclaim despoiled lands in Lordaeron for settlement.

To whit it's all due to the urban centers of Lordaeron which helped increase scourge numbers when they got control of them.
 
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If the Scarlet Crusade controlled a population center I'd think maybe eventually…
But that also assumes they learn the trick quickly enough to get good. Easier said then done given that doing it wrong could draw some pretty bad PR that might lead to them getting censored relative to the Silver Hand which is diminished but not toast just yet. In which case- the Silver Hand has Problems because they don't draft, they recruit from volunteers, so having the likes of Varian or Magni speaking out against the practice could throw a wrench in their ability to recruit.

…I'm more shakey on this part but I thought Orcs kinda naturally channel magic into their bodies or something which is part of the Lethargy that hit them once they got stuffed into the penal camps after the war. Seems to me that trait might make it easier to do the artificial aging thing more reliably and avoiding some of the problems an equivalent human program to do the same thing might run into.
 
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