if you didn't intentionally write Grok a bit... obtuse about it
Oh certainly. But that's important for the story really. Grok is Honourbound, and that's a great source of conflict and narrative for me as the writer to meditate on within the text.
He's not an idiot, but he's also certainly inclined to elements of self-delusion. He had a conversation with Kartha before about how they're both fairly sure the Burning Blade and Shattered Hand are working for someone, not the Horde, and that the only logical organisation in Grok's mind is the Burning Legion. Feldad is continually suspicious, though your lack of contact with him recently has decreased the opportunities for him to do stuff that might cause remarks.
However, he's also trained and socialised to go hit things with his sword, not to sit about remarking on things.
There's a tension in this sort of constitutional thinking that's very difficult for Orcs to do, especially one like Grok. It's difficult for him to identify the problem in the first place and not react in the traditional fashion.
Partly however this is a job for you as the players. This is interactive fiction after all, so it's partly up to you all to discuss these issues. If you want to do an action to have Grok sit down and think about constitutional matters you certainly can. However, I don't want to leave it up to individual actions etc or OOC ideas. Just like Grok is iterating his philosophy of Shamanism, so too would any constitutional issues be remarked on. I'd also say it would require Grok to have firm authority, for example, if he was to call a constitutional convention then if he only rules over a load of random guys that massively weakens any actions coming out of such a convention.
Then again, perhaps such a convention and his sponsorship of it would in fact increase his authority among others. Who knows.
This is not 'honour'! This is a set of policies,
I'll briefly go into the constitutionalism thing here. Basically, before modern constitutional forms, especially written and codified constitutions, you still have constitutional precedents. Magna Carta is the major one. The Orcs do indeed have a constitution, the problem is it's incredibly fractured and divergent because they've only recently needed to think about it. The institutions of the chief, the elders, the warchief, the mak'gora, the blood oath, these are all constitutional forms which are governed under the loose definition of 'honour'.
Indeed, if you asked an Orc, 'What governs the politics of the Orcish nation?', they may just respond 'Honour' because that's what they'd perceive it as.
Incidentally, this reminds me of a Beastmen fic in Warhammer. I will note in case anyone is wanting to google the text that it's also a smut fic so yknow fair warning:
The Code of Stone: A Stela with the four rules Maximillian laid out to his herd. The following rules are engraved upon it, and bear the threat of rulebreakers be broken beneath it:
1. Obey those above you. For your beastlord has set them above you just as the gods set your beastlord above them.
2. Do not kill or eat uncloven who have been brought into the herd. A corpse can't cook you a meal, repair your weapon, or (lol didn't remember this will have to remove that particular bit).
3. The herd's strength is your strength. Harm the herd and you harm yourself. Maim the herd through killing, and the herd will maim you.
4. Destroy not what can be put to use. Burn not what can be defiled. Kill not those that can be made to believe our glory. All deserve the chance to serve, regardless of their origin.
One issue is also that the ways in which the Constitutional arrangements of the Horde have developed. IRL constitutional tensions emerged between nobility, royalty, peasants and burghers. However, the Horde is 'primitive' in various senses of the word, technologically sure, but socially and politically. Taken from the Encyclopedia Britannica on this:
The key intellectual move of ancient constitutionalist arguments was usually to identify some exercise of central or royal power as novel, innovative, and disruptive of some long-established rule, custom, law, or practice and as therefore illegal or illegitimate. Thus, appeals to ancient constitutions were not always coherent or compatible with one another, much less historically accurate.
Anyway, we don't need to get into it too much now I suppose. I do find it very interesting though so am enjoy it being part of the quest. I get that it can be frustrating perhaps, but it's also an important part of the worldbuildign adn of Grok's character.
This will only work so long as Grok is there to define what is and isn't 'honorable', and he will find others would agree all too quickly if his definitions changed to... less strict ones. Grok thinks that Thrall has 'forgotten honour', but he needs to go further than that; he needs to point out the failings and their cause. If we define honour as a set of policies, does it mean that he has bad ones, or that they are fine but he is lax in enforcing them, or that they need pruning because they are in conflict with each other?
I don't think it's that bad. For example, Orcs do learn lessons. Broadly speaking OTL they've adopted technology fairly freely, there's not a big luddite movement or some sort or naturalist inclination against technological progress. In this quest, most of the Orcs who've fought alongside humans or been in peaceful proximity with them as part of the Crusade etc would now have different opinions about humans. THey understand, through Grok's exmaple, that humans can indeed be actually worked with, and can make good allies rather than just being either enemies or chattel. Similarly, Grok's duel against Mograine has and will continue to make him extremely famous, as has his association with powerful human 'chiefs' such as Dathrohan and Fordring. For an Orc seeking fame and fortune, they might now actually have an idea that they can walk up to the Crusade and ask for work, and that Dathrohan would think it was rather novel, but would accept them. Battle against the Scourge would give far more fame than just doing useless raids, and Grok has firmly demonstrated that it can be profitable.
Consider, for example, a little composition from a warrior returning home after service abroad :
The Scarlet Highlord, his steel I now bear,
A symbol of battles, his trust to declare.
Rings of honour upon my fingers adorn,
For in foreign lands, my name was known and sworn.
In distant realms, as battlers we strove,
But our hearts forever belong to Horde's trove.
Warriors, now home, with stories to share,
In Orcish blood, our legacy we declare.
He should find some way to turn into an aspect of the Breaker.
how about no, no need for that cause it could end very badly
certain dwarves can unlock an avatar mode
So apparently Magni spoke some sort of magic spell and that's what turned him into diamond for a few years. Would be quite amsuing to see what would happen if an Orc tried it. I'll be going into that a bit in the Ironforge interlude.
But, in general, this is totally an acheivable thing for the Orcs, once they know a bit more and do some more research. Orcs didn't come from Earthen in teh same way as the Dwarves did. Go have a chat with the Discs of Norgannon maybe.
The policies of the Burning Blade are not ours to set while our father, the chief, yet lives.
This somewhat reminds me of Dune:
Paul said. "Tell herthat Stilgar acknowledges me Duke of Arrakis, but a way must be found to make the young men accept this without combat."
Chani glanced at Stilgar. "Do as he says," Stilgar growled. "We both know he could overcome me . . .and I could not raise my hand against him . . . for the good of the tribe."
Here Paul is growing in power and acclaim among a tribal people, but he's never challenged the chief, Stilgar, to a duel which is the traditional method of leadership change. As such this creates a political tension because apparently other people in the tribe feel that this is necessary for legitimacy.
Grok can manage some aspects of his followers sure, but yes as you note significant policy issues are more difficult. In theory Grok is also in an extremely brittle position because only like 20 Orcs are actually from the Burning Blade really. Grok got reinforcements from Feldad from random other orcs when he set off, and he's absorbed others before he started absorbing larger numbers.
Feldad may indeed step aside for his more famous son and go back to intriguing in the background, but more importantly, a Warchief outranks a chief, which may make the issue irrelevant.
beings that have too much power are constrained by that power, and by their own nature that is connected to it
Indeed this seems to be the case with Magni and the Elemental Ascendants.
