Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Shamanism and You
I was going to write the info post on exile, but decided it would be more relevant to do one on shamanism instead, which hopefully will be of use in the next chapter to know what you might be expecting.

This post will contain some notes on what shamanism is, how it works, and how you can become more powerful using it. I'm pretty sure some people think of it as just another flavour of magic with no mechanical differences, but it's really not and that has narrative implications.

Questions on this welcome so I can add points to it. Be aware canon conflicts sometimes and I'm worldbuilding a lot of this.

Also remember that even if you don't have anything especially insightful to say its useful for you to comment because it'll bump the thread.

Here is an excellent story featuring a shaman who forms a connection with two elements. I don't entirely agree with some interpretations of the lore within, but it's generally a good story from a good author, and contains a good interpretation of the stuff in game.

Origins of Elements and Elementals

A shaman's power is derived from their connection with the Elements of Azeroth (and other planets). These elements are Fire, Earth, Air and Water. In the primordial age the first forms of life were the elementals, specifically those of Fire, Air, Earth and Water. Elementals feed off the spiritual energy of the world, but Azeroth contains a Titan world-soul which consumes most of the spiritual energy of the world. This causes scarcity and conflict between the elementals and their opposite natures. Comparably, on Draenor where there was a reasonable amount of spiritual energy the Elements existed in harmony.

Two parties subsequently arrived on Azeroth. Firstly, the Old Gods which sought to corrupt Azeroth's world-soul fought and enslaved the four elemental factions, while subsequently the Titans arrived, imprisoned the Old Gods and sealed the warring elementals within the Elemental Plane.

The elements, arranged in hierarchies, armies and civilisations, continue to war against each other and try to expand their influence on Azeroth, with one method of achieving this being through Shaman to whom they lend their power.

Present constitution of the elemental factions

Elementals, individual manifestations of the various natural forces are now contained in the various elemental factions and mainly stay in the four conceptual zones, the Firelands, Deepholm, Skywall and the Abyssal Maw, though some are anchored on Azeroth, summoned or emerge organically. Usually Elementals sleep in their relevant locations such as an Earth Elemental in a boulder or a Water Elemental in a pond. Larger locations like a mountain might have their own Elemental, or they might have several Elementals for different bits of the Mountain. The most powerful Elementals can manifest 'publically' and wander about on their own, though their power wanes the further they go from their key location. Generally individual elementals appear from discrete sources, like an Earth Elemental coming from a boulder. However, in some mixed environments you'll find elementals of mixed sources, such as Fire+Earth=Lava.

Shaman

Shaman are spiritually sensitive individuals who attune themselves with particular Elementals, either generally or with one Elemental in particular. Generally Shaman in good standing will be able to rely on 'The Elements' generally to help them out in small ways in return for the Shaman mediating disagreements and preventing things like environmental abuse or exploitation. For example, unlike a Druid a Shaman wouldn't be inherently opposed to cutting trees down, mining or other disturbances of the natural order. This is because Shaman mediate and balance elements which are inherently chaotic and fractious things and war constantly, and therefore accept destruction as a natural part of life.

Shaman who connect with the elements generally can rely on a fairly constant array of powers wherever they go because they're in good standing with the elements, have a good reputation and so on. Comparably, some Shaman contract with a specific Elemental (usually one of each Fire, Water, Earth and Air), which has various advantages and disadvantages. Firstly these shaman are usually young and weak, meaning the more powerful elementals won't be interested in talking to them. These single contract shaman use their connection with their Elementals to strengthen the Elemental, claiming unclaimed spots and generally increasing both parties power. For example, a young shaman might contract with a minor Elemental of a pond or small spring of water, and then subsequently though their adventurers would help that Elemental claim other bodies of water unoccupied by Elementals, or simply defeat these Elementals, growing in power.

When forming a connection with the Elements a Shaman often creates a totem. This might be simply them carrying a pebble around, or it might be an elaborate staff with a crystal in it, or a cape made of feathers. These totems help the shaman connect with the elements, and in the case of 'Single-Contract Shaman' the totem allows their contracted Elemental to exert influence far from their host place.

Quest interactions with Elementals

You sword has a minor fire elemental, an effectively non-sentient one such as from a bonfire, bound within in. In parts of Warcraft this form of elemental binding is fairly common, the Warrior class has a quest to get a special axe with a powerful air Elemental bound inside it. The Burning Blade are experts in this form of elemental binding and have other forms of shamanism that I've yet to consider particularly closely like Fireseeing, a form of divination.

You rolled high affinities to all elements apart from air which was exceptionally low. As such you could form a connection with most elements quite easily and would be able to sense them. Traditionally this would require at least a few months of guided meditation, but you can also use artificial methods like making a Sapta, a spiritual hallucinogen to make yourself more sensitive to the elements temporarily. Saptas are made using reagents tied to their respective elements so for fire you might use charcoal or for earth some hooves. You can then use that Sapta in a place where an Elemental might reside and you'd be better able to sense them. A larger elemental would be able to manifest and show itself without any help from you and would be able to talk to anyone, Saptas are primarily for minor elementals when the shaman needs that boost to see.

From your reading of the Flamebender's Tome you've learned that you have to defeat an Elemental and take part of it to make into a totem. You can choose what to make the totem into, you could for example add it to your sword to make the sword even more powerful, or you could turn it into a belt buckle. The theme of the activity and item will determine its effects. Then you'll have another action available to deepen your connection to that element and the Elemental within the totem. You can offer a contract to Elementals you meet, but be aware some won't be interested and might squash you like the fleshy mortal you are.

Cultural variations of Shamanic practices

Some cultures practice shamanism in different ways because in real life and therefore when worldbuilding Warcraft you've got to accept that cultural and religious issues are complex rather than everyone using the same spells etc. The Trolls interpret Elementals as Loa, just as they do any powerful spirit, while the Tauren worship the elements alongside their Light worship and Druidism. The Druids of the Flame became druids, but of the elements, which is presumably somewhere between Druidism and Shamanism as shown in game.

One example I've thought up recently was the idea of institutionalised Elementals. In game some societies do this, young shaman in Durotar area sent to a big rock where a friendly Elemental lives and because they're polite the Elemental grants them some of its power, and it in turn becomes slightly more powerful with each Shaman it helps. Similarly you could take the minor Elemental of a small fire, then use that fire to light many other constantly burning fires such as those of a communal firepit, baker's oven, brazier or smith's furnace. If you did this throughout a city or multiple cities the Elemental would become sufficiently powerful to exert significant influence because all fires there belong to it and therefore it's constantly fed with power and respect, so through this sort of Olympic Torch idea you could create 'Ignis of the Many Fires' or similar.

Shaman also aren't the only ones to use elemental power. Arcanists like Mages use Arcane magic, a combination of all elements, to bind and order raw elemental power, while various parties use Decay, a pseudo-element, to subjugate or exploit elementals. Some parties like particular variations of Shaman like Spiritwalkers also use Spirit, another pseudo-element to mediate between elements and better communicate, while Monks use Spirit to do monk things like illuminating manuscripts and living a monastic life, no not really they use it to punch stuff. Some cultures use only a specific element like the Kul Tiran Tidesages who are something in-between mages and shaman, or the general Geomancy, a crude form of shamanism used by many less developed races like Kobolds.

The Shaman Police

Mortal interference in elemental affairs can cause great destruction. The most notable examples of this is when the Dark Iron dwarves summoned Ragnaros the Firelord, an act which shattered a mountain range, or when Gul'dan assaulted the Elementals of Draenor, causing widespread ecological damage.

These acts are policed by the Earthen Ring, a formerly Tauren group which now includes Orcs and Troll shaman and polices and mediates the elementals and shaman of Azeroth. If there's a group going about messing with the elements they'll try to stop that group, or if there's one powerful group of elementals which threaten the balance between the factions the Earthen Ring would balance against that faction, like they did against the Dark Irons.

If you go messing about with the Elements you'll be opposed by the Shaman Police who's solution is sometimes debate and sometimes killing. However, like all organisations made up of individuals, the policies of the Shaman police can be changed depending on the views of their members. The Earthen Ring don't really have a policy on certain things like the Kul Tiran Tidesages.
 
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Flamebender's Tome research status (to be updated in its own threadmark)
can you remind me what we've gone through in the book so I don't suggest something redundant?
You've had a general read and identified the following topics to be in the book, and you've read further into a few of them, underlined below. You only have Basic Scholarship though so you're not that good at reading generally, you're not able to do the same reading of a source as someone who'd been to Dalaran would have for example because you just don't have the education or even the language skills.

Stories and legends of the Burning Blade
Descriptions of traditions

Stuff about Draenor generally
Blacksmithing stuff (how they make the cool swords)
Stuff on elemental connecting and binding
Stuff on elementals in general

Some stuff you think is probably demonic notes but its in the demon language which hurts your eyes to look at because its all evil and stuff and you can't read it
Notes in another language (you dont know what, but its actually the fire elemental language)
Stuff about fire magic
Stuff about air magic
Alchemy stuff
Enchanted items stuff
Divination (Flameseers)
Ogre lore
Draenei Lore
Other draenor races lore


could we take some and ask that someone send the papers to us later? We got a postal service or something of the sort?
If you were higher rank sure you could order it, but no not currently. The Alliance has a postal service, including civilian, the Horde has only a extraordinary (as in not regular) military postal service which is usually just giving a wolf rider a letter and ordering them about etc.
I know it's retreading the first quest of his, but at least it's something he's familiar with.
That was the last wish of an orc who didn't want to die in dishonour, this is you asking the Champion of the Horde to carry some letters for you, so nope, in character you don't think he'd be interested. Remember though, Vark is heading north to see his father after he's done in Sen'jin and he's a big dude who probably wouldn't mind bringing some stuff for a blood brother (hint hint)
 
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Rolls and rolling
Thought I'd do a quick infopost on rolls.

Rolls are rolled whenever there's a meaningful decision or challenge. They also rely on specific conditions and are mediated by them. For example if you were fighting a giant even if you got a high roll you still might not do a lot because you're one guy. Comparably, if you rolled low fighting a gnome you'd still probably win because you're a decent fighter.

Similarly, rolls will be adjusted depending on various things. I've previously capped rolls with floors and ceilings to prevent you doing too well or too badly. For example, if you have a skilled teacher you're going to learn a minimum of stuff, whereas if you have an unskilled teacher you'd have difficulty learning everything.

Criticals are 1 and 100, and artificial criticals aren't a thing.

Rolls are rolled to answer questions, therefore their effects depend on what that question is. If you're in a larger fight I'll roll several rounds with attacker and defender rolling, whereas with a more minor fight I'll just roll one roll to determine how the battle goes.

Rolls are also dependant on traits and abilities. Say you were doing some specialist activity, you'd only be able to perform to your own skills, so even a critical success wouldn't mean you do incredibly. As an example, you had a look at your magic medallion, but you did this with your basic scholarship trait, so even though you rolled high you might have gotten it completely wrong because you were an amateur at the time.

Successes and Failures in rolls will be modified by what's realistic and probable to happen in any instance. For example, a low roll might mean the action is ineffective, not that a meteor crashes down and kills you. Comparably, if you try and persuade a king to give you their kingdom and roll a 100 they'll think its a funny joke, not actually give you the kingdom because that would be such a ridiculous suggestion they're just not going to do it.

I see my role as GM as one of adjudication and while I make lots of rolls I tend to not necessarily use them all in the interest of having interesting things happen rather than relying entirely on the rolls to say whether so and so wants to do something. Generally I'll have 1 overall roll for an action and a series of other minor rolls to give me direction on other issues.

Someone mentioned the bonuses you get to rolls are pretty small. This is indeed so. I tend to dislike quests where most actions are successes and I want to have threatening failstates which will force you to take various actions you might not want to normally. However, you can stack various rolls, currently you have a +11 for fighting, but I might actually do away with them all together as I've started to find it annoying to have to tabulate everything and include all the bonuses, but that would then mean skills would be done away with, which I don't really want to do. Currently considering it.

Questions welcome so I can develop this post as necessary.

Also, @Kir the Wizard and @Guiding Bolt are awarded a bonus of +20 for some future roll. This will be a way I reward interesting ideas and participation in future.

@Algalon gets one for good analysis.
 
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Stuff I found in the RPG books
I've been reading the Warcraft RPG books for material, it's interesting to see how canon has developed over time. I won't necessarily use all this but I'll put it up for comment and inspiration.
Variant Classes
Pyremaster

Orcs burn their dead. In a world filled with magic, magic insinuates itself in ritual. Founded in the mysteries of certain cults on Draenor, the pyremaster is the enactor of ritual. This funerary priest guides the dead through fire, through loss of flesh, so their naked spirits may conquer the elements; in order to protect his duties (and his person), he commands both bone and fire. Orc pyremasters are scattered across Azeroth. Places where fire and heat are dominant (particularly in the Burning Steppes and the Searing Gorge) are cult strongholds.

Far Seer

Far seers are adept at seeing places and events that are distant in both space and time, allowing them to foretell the future to a degree. Many say that they are the pinnacle of shamanistic development. The far seer is an orc tradition, but they sometimes train members of their allied races in its ways, especially tauren. These shaman are wise and often old. Most shaman of this type do not actually earn the title "far seer" until late in their lives, but they must begin training at an early age.

Battle Shaman

One of the shaman's great strengths is his versatility. He wields both defensive and offensive magic and can hold his own in a fight. He can cast spells to heal and support his allies as well as hamper his enemies. Some shaman, though, devote themselves to the warlike aspects inherent in their abilities. They still possess a modicum of magical ability, but train their bodies and reflexes to focus more on combat. In many ways, these battle shaman are the Horde's answer to paladins, and their enemies nervously finger their blades when they see one in the opposing ranks.

Spirit Champion

Description: A spirit champion is a mighty warrior who embraces the spirits, to assist him in his battles. He strengthens his spiritual connection until he can feel the spirits flowing within his body and thoughts, strengthening his arms and quickening his mind. Whispered fragments impart insight into battle as ancestors speak of ways to overcome all foes. The spirit champion ceases to fight for his own reasons; he battles to honor the spirits and to further their wishes. Often, these wishes coincide with his own, but occasionally the spirit champion embarks on a path for reasons that are unclear to him. He does so faithfully, trusting in the spirits to point him in the right direction. The spirit champion is a deadly melee combatant. His spiritual nature strengthens his mind in ways that most warriors ignore. Insight grants him speed and accuracy, and he can call upon native spirits to lend him aid. He is a contemplative warrior, likely to meditate through the dawn before silently lifting his sword or totem and walking calmly into battle.

Spirit Walker

A spirit walker's ancient eyes shine with the light of a thousand souls. His body is a vessel, a conduit from the land of the dead to the land of the living. Through him rushes the power and the knowledge of his tribal ancestors, a rush that both intoxicates and disorients. The spirit walker wields the power of countless minds if he proves strong enough to bear the weight of so many souls. Tauren and orcs revere spirit walkers, but also fear them. The spirit walker lives only partially in the mortal world. His mind roams freely and countless personalities invade his memories and his thoughts. When speaking to a spirit walker, one can never be entirely certain that only the spirit walker replies. He speaks with the voices of the ancients. Elderly spirit walkers sometimes lose all memories of their original selves, slipping from one spirit to the next without warning or control. But in his prime, a spirit walker displays strength and knowledge greater than the most experienced shaman. Most spirit walkers learn of their unique natures during puberty. The young spirit walker experiences intense dreams over the course of a month. In each dream he seems to live someone else's life — an ancestor he recognizes, or a stranger from long ago. The young spirit walker is confused and disoriented upon awakening, unable to decide if he is now awake or if the other life was his real one, and this life but a dream. A shaman can guide the spirit walker through this transition, but spirit walkers apart from their communities do not understand what is happening to them. This leads to fear, even panic, and sometimes a deep distaste for the calling imposed on him. Such spirit walkers may never resign themselves fully to their path after having been so traumatized by their awakening. Not all spirit walkers realize their purpose in youth. Some live normal lives until one night the dreams begin. Even elderly tauren have been known to develop spirit walker powers, sometimes only days before death. The stress of handling so many spirits turns a spirit walker's pelt or hair snow white over the years. Some tribes consider a tauren born with a white pelt to be destined to become a spirit walker. Such children sometimes refuse their destiny, but almost all give in eventually. Fevered lucid dreams fill their nights, and their days seem still to be half-dreams as they remember places they've never been and recognize people they've never seen. Only shaman training affords control over these visitations; spirit walkers who resist training often descend into madness.

Fel Stuff:

The servants of the Burning Legion are a myriad of darkly motivated men and women, servants of some demonic will. Most of those who have become slaves to the Burning Legion have done so by following mystical paths that are not only perilous for one's body, but also for one's soul. Fel-Sworns are those who have begun to transform due to their exposure to the energies of the Burning Legion. Their bodies have warped and twisted to take on a new shape as their souls become more and more evil. While they might start out resembling normal members of their race, their demonic features develop until they are terrifying beings, half humanoid and half demon

Fel Breath (Ex): The fel-sworn can actually breathe a burst of fel fi re from his lungs. This cone-shaped burst of green fl ame deals 1d4 points of fel fi re damage per level of Fel-Sworn. A successful Refl ex saving throw (DC of 10 + the fel-sworn's level + the fel-sworn's Charisma modifi er) results in half damage.

Fel Fangs (Ex): The fel-sworn grows a pair of fangs. These natural weapons infl ict 1d4 + Strength modifi er points of fel piercing damage. Fel

Talons (Ex): The fel-sworn grows a pair of long black talons. These natural weapons infl ict 1d6 + Strength modifi er points of fel slashing damage. Fel

Wings (Ex): Wings sprout from the back of the felsworn. While at fi rst these wings are relatively useless, for every level that the fel-sworn chooses to take this power, the wings grow in effectiveness. The wings begin with a maneuverability of clumsy and a fl ight speed of 20 feet (4 squares). Each time the fel-sworn takes fel wings, he may increase either the maneuverability by one class (for instance from clumsy to poor) or the speed by +10 feet

Hellish Growth (Ex): The fel-sworn grows in size to the next size category. The fel-sworn's space and reach change as appropriate for his new size category (see Table 12–4: Creature Size and Scale). In addition to the standard changes for size, the fel-sworn gains +4 Strength, +2 Stamina and –2 Spirit.

Horns (Ex): Twisted horns grow from the fel-sworn's brow. These horns are natural weapons that infl ict 1d6 + Strength modifi er points of fel bludgeoning damage.

Scabrous Hide (Ex): The fel-sworn's hide grows scaly and thick. He gains a +3 enhancement bonus to natural armor. He also suffers a –3 penalty on Charisma based skill checks, except for Intimidate.

Spiny Tail (Ex): The spiny tail of the fel-sworn aids in balance and grants him a +2 bonus on Balance checks. The tail also sports sharp spines. This natural weapon deals 1d6 points of piercing damage (+ Strength modifi er) in addition to looking pretty cool.

Darkvision (Ex): The fel-sworn gains darkvision out to 60 feet. Sworn (Su): Warlocks may treat fel-sworns as evil outsiders that they can command using the bind special ability (see Chapter 3: Classes, "Arcanist," Warlock).

Spellcrafting:

Spellcraft DC Task

15 + spell level Learn a spell from a mentor (healer and arcanist). Requires 30 min. and 50 gp/ spell level (price may vary).

15 + spell level When casting detect magic, determine the school of magic involved in the aura of a single item or a creature that's visible. (If the aura is not a spell effect, the DC is 15 + 1/2 caster level). No action required.

20 + spell level Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll (arcanist only). No retry for that spell until gaining at least 1 rank in Spellcraft (even if he fi nds another source to learn the same spell from). Requires 1 hour/ spell level.

20 + spell level Identify a spell that's already in place and in effect. Must be able to see or detect the spell's effects. No action required; no retry.

20 + spell level Identify materials created or shaped by magic, such as noting that a thick stand of thorns is the result of a wall of thorns spell. No action required; no retry.

20 + spell level Decipher a written spell (such as a scroll) without using read magic. One try per day. Requires a full-round action.

25 + spell level Identify a targeted spell after rolling a saving throw against its effects. No action required; no retry.

25 Identify a potion. Requires 1 minute; no retry.

20 Draw a diagram to allow dimensional anchor to be cast on a magic circle spell. Requires 10 minutes; no retry. The check is made secretly by the GM.

30 or higher Understand a strange or unique magical effect, such as the effects of a magic stream. Time required varies; no retry.

1d10 War Experience

1 The character grieves for the loss of a loved one and blames another race for that person's death.

2 The character feels lost in a new or changed land and looks with nostalgia at the life left behind.

3 The character's mind was damaged by the horrors of war, leading to uncontrollable urges and fears.

4 The character was wounded and still suffers pain or disability from the injuries.

5 The character feels cheated by the war and its aftermath and wants recompense for undergoing trials and suffering.

6 Though apparently unharmed, the character wants to leave the war in the past and get on with life.

7 Surviving the war has left the character with an appreciation of life and empathy for others.

8 The character developed an intense camaraderie with others caught in the war and will do anything for those people.

9 The character looks back on the war as a glorious time and wishes to reclaim the excitement of the past.

10 The character owes his life or the lives of loved ones to the actions of an enemy and feels a sense of debt or friendship because of it.
 
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Some remarks on the Forsaken
I mean, if there are so little gains, why bother? Was it because the Horde felt some sort of responsibility to curing their condition or whatever?
So this does indeed open up a wider philosophical discussion. Firstly, on strategy, the Horde is desperate for allies right after the Third War and I'm pretty sure the Forsaken asked first. Thrall loses little in allying and then just not doing much with them. He was going to change his mind and then the Tauren argued for their inclusion and Thall being a young leader listens to his advisors. Also because they didn't know much about what the forsaken are up to, that sort of thing.

Morally,

The atrocities aren't done in secret at all. Some you might call self-defence, I don't think the average forsaken minds killing the Scarlets if necessary, but whole institutions are riven with, not even corruption but just evil, most notably the Deathstalkers (military and intel) under Varimathras and the Apothecaries (heathcare, research). This is canon, many of the forsaken qs are 'go test the new plague strain on a prisoner' and then the alchemist cackles to himself about what happens when they explode or writhe around in agony and then melt into a puddle of goo.

I described them as 'institutionally' evil, this doesn't mean they're automatically evil as a 'race' but it does mean they have an evil culture, one that violates commonly held norms and acts destructively. They're unlikely to question immoral orders, they'd not mind going and torturing people. Sylvanus canonically cares very little for her people, especially after Arthas is defeated, so the leadership is morally evil, which filters down into policies. They're a force dedicated to vengeance (fair enough), destruction and misery (not fair enough). I've just been looking through the RPG books for a particular bit but can't find it, basically its titled 'Forsaken stand alone?' and describes their isolated situation.

You could make an argument that the lower levels don't know about the various things going on. I'm not sure that stands up to scrutiny, but its arguable given Warcraft doesn't concern itself with lower level stuff. Similarly, I agree there are some Forsaken who use the Light even though it hurts them, and these are indeed virtuous and worthy. There are many more Forsaken who use the Shadow, a religion with some philosophical virtues but also a lot of evil practitioners. Also its void magic so yknow old god corruption etc. Again I'm not saying 'Individual forsaken are evil', even though a lot are, I'm saying 'The forsaken are governed by and participate in evil institutions, and are led by evil individuals'.

Compare for example LotR orcs. They're often portrayed as evil but they really aren't. They enjoy cruelty as a society just like some societies enjoy other ways of proving manliness etc. They care about pay and recognition within their own society and from superiors, and they have normal rivalries with other orcs. They hate humans and elves, and they generally dislike dwarves, but again its the institutions which are evil, and subsequently the individuals which are socialised into evil action.
 
Exile-o-Meter
So here's the promised infopost regarding the 'Exile-o-Meter'. I need to do more thinking on this myself so questions are welcome to help me flesh it out more.

Exile is often employed in fiction to present a sort of social conflict or failstate for a character which the audience can relate to. Everyone's been shunned at some point and the idea of 'social death' is a frightening one. Sometimes exile is used as a type of character development, or to emphasise the seriousness of an issue, other times its represented rather less well IMO. One notable cases of exile that I can think of at the moment are the Slayers of WFB, Dwarves who've shamed themselves so badly they're compelled to seek a glorious death to wipe out this dishonour.

Exile can also be voluntary, such as the early Muslims who left Arabia to escape religious persecution. This type of exile represents a social break with established communities.

Exile doesn't need to be declared, codified or even universally accepted. It's a complex issue so I won't go into it completely here but it is a real and potential danger in this quest.

As I've emphasised through the quest so far the Orcish society is socially complex but institutionally primitive. This means I'm not going to tabulate a series of actions by you that would get you 'exile points' or something and if said points go over 20 something bad would happen, or potentially have you mechanically gaming the system. This is a complex social issue so I don't plan to make many rolls either. I will however give a few general indications of how exile can work in this quest and how you might avoid it.

Why is exile a factor in this quest?

The purpose of this quest, from the start, has been to explore the theme of agency. I don't mind the drift that seems to be happening over time, I'm pleased with the progress in any case, but one of the major points of agency is to provide you the choice to do things and make sure you're affected by the consequences of this. I want there to be consequences to breaking norms and to create a the possibility of conflict resulting from social causes rather than merely a monster attacking or similar.

Who can exile you in the first place?

There aren't any courts like there would be for declaring outlawry in Iceland or Rome, instead it would be more of a generally accepted statement or understanding by various persons in powerful positions, and by society in general. The main people who could exile you are your parents, your clan chief (in this case also your parent), your racial leader, your warchief, and possibly some nebulous collection of elder shaman who represent the spiritual authority of the Horde. If the Warchief isn't an Orc this becomes more complicated, but the same principles apply.

Why might you be exiled?

As I mentioned this is nebulous. Because of the nature of feuds tribal societies don't generally practice the death penalty or corporal punishment, rather they remove the offender from the community to avoid them harming the community. How can you harm the community? Firstly you've got the usual higher crimes including murder, manslaughter, rape and other things. If the relatives or the clan of the person you've attacked don't take revenge first you might be exiled after the act to avoid the crime spiralling into a feud that breaks the community.

You can generally be exiled for dishonouring something or someone publicly. The Orcs operate a public honour and shame culture meaning private actions won't necessarily be considered important unless they intrude on the public sphere. Norms can change and transform, and its possible for you to be considered dishonourable for something you're not responsible for.

The Orcs value strength, honour (that is, the maintenance of one's standing in the community), valour, skill, tradition and various other virtues. If you go against these virtues you offend the community.

Some reasons you might be exiled include:
  • Causing shame to your family or community
  • Offending religious or social sensibilities, such as killing a shaman
  • Damaging the Horde's relations with foreign nations, such as attacking the Alliance without orders
  • General crimes such as murder
  • Disobedience, such as disobeying various authority figures
  • Political unpopularity
These offenses can range in severity and length. For example you've been causing your father and therefore the Burning Blade clan shame from an early age, but this shame hasn't been offensive enough to merit exile because you're weaker than normal but can still fight, by comparison, Gul'dan was exiled for being disabled.

Virtue can erase sin. If you go about raiding alliance settlements and caravans you're damaging the Horde reputation, but you're also raising your own reputation and emphasising the valour of the Horde, therefore the two can cancel each other out.

What are the consequences of exile?

At the most basic level you're expelled from the community. If the cause of your exile is so egregious you might be hunted down in an attempt to erase the dishonour your existence causes. Due to your exile you would generally be denied services and hospitality. You wouldn't be permitted in Orcish communities, given assistance in various other areas, and generally be removed from the community as mentioned earlier. I say 'might' because you might receive different responses from different groups. If you murdered a shaman or enslaved an elemental then the Burning Blade probably wouldn't be as concerned about that as the Frostwolves would be, so while one might consider you exiled you might be welcomed in other areas. Similarly the Warsong would generally be fine with military aggression.

What should you consider moving forward?

I as the QM will be keeping a fairly informal tally on the 'Exile-o-Meter'. As I've said I won't be tabulating this or similar, but I will be noting what sort of things you've gotten up to and how this is perceived by various people. Consider carefully whenever you take a significant action, or when you begin a longer course of actions. It will be very rare that a single action will cause an immediate exile. As one example, at the end of this arc I'm going to consider my notes and decide whether you're going to be exiled. If you fail to demonstrate your strength and value to the clan, fail to bring glory to your father as his son, fail to represent the Burning Blade well and so on you will likely be exiled.

Later through the quest you should consider your actions carefully and how they reflect on you, your clan and the Horde in general. If you want to achieve a high rank you'll need to not be exiled obviously. If you want to wander about as an exiled adventurer that's fine as well. There's been a lot of talk about samurai previously in the thread and the Burning Blade are described through the artwork as samurai with their banners etc, but keep in mind that to be a ronin is actually quite a dishonourable position. As such, in general try to avoid being exiled.
 
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Contemporary Horde Culture
So again I'm bumping the thread and hopefully provoking some discussion and some more votes as we still have quite few. I'll close the voting tomorrow so if you have a particular preference please go vote.

Now though as requested I'll go into Contemporary Horde Culture a bit. Some of this is canon, though other parts are my own analysis or logical extrapolations. Please let me know if you want some other info post on a different topic as I find them useful to bump the thread.

History and Basics

So to understand the contemporary culture you obviously have to look at the history and previous culture of the orcs. I've gone into this in other posts, but essentially the Orcs are a recently centralised nation of warriors, developing from a semi-nomadic hunter culture with primitive clan based society. There are lots of factors to consider so instead of restating stuff I've mentioned in other posts I'll just say that there's a few main factors to consider when looking at contemporary culture, mainly the history and political development of the orcish nation and the social structures of clan organisation.

Demographics

The Warcraft timeline is weird so don't necessarily trust it, but there are some interesting considerations when you look at the demographic shocks the Orcs have suffered recently. Firstly, the Horde magically aged (almost) all their children before they came through the Dark Portal, so Rend and other individuals are actually only about 30, but look more like 50. Furthermore, the Orcs were frequently at war when they came through the portal so I don't see them having many children, and then they were interred and figuratively and magically impotent, meaning again a likely lack of children. After Thrall freed them they were happier, and then they settled in anew land, so as such I'm generally going to say there's a recent explosion of children around your age. I'll also say there's fewer older orcs, the true elders due to the various wars and hard living.

You've got about 4 groups:

  • Unusual number of young people (you, possibly Garrosh)
  • Very few intermediates, that is young adults, given the demographic shocks (Bloodeye)
  • Reasonably large cohort of middle aged people (Feldad, Thrall)
  • Cohort of artificially aged people, usually males who are now middle aged (Rend)
  • Very few elders (Drek'thar, Saurfang)

This has various cultural effects. For example, if you've grown up during the Bad Times on Draenor you'd probably consider 'the Horde' in general to be a good thing and regard the Clans poorly. Comparably, if you're older and have experienced the good times of peace on Draenor you'd associate the Horde with Gul'dan's machinations. The younger generations have been told all the good stories about Draenor and have a warped view. You see this to an extent with Thrall and Garrosh, neither of which seem to accept (at first) that the Old Horde wasn't actually that honourable and were indeed the unrepentant genociders which are normally associated with the Fel. As such many have adopted the strategy, whether intentionally or otherwise of 'blame the bad stuff on Gul'dan, deny responsibility for everything, emphasise the positive'.

Consider therefore when trying to discern someone's motivations and opinions, what their experiences are. Do they remember Shaman as strong, wise spiritual advisers? Do they remember them as weak magicians who's power abandoned them? Do they remember them just another magic user who seems to be basically the same as warlocks?

Gender


It's heavily implied in various sources that the Orcs were, and to an extent are, highly patriarchal. Thrall takes the step of ordering that women be allowed to serve as warriors, and there's someone in the Barrens who says 'yes I'm a woman don't be surprised etc etc'. Traditionally therefore women would be back at the clan, presumably being the main craftspeople and childrearers, sometimes spiritual advisors, very occasionally in other roles like Garona was. In the modern Horde this view is weakening somewhat, but assume that traditions take time to change. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Orcs practiced female infanticide given a female orc is significantly less powerful than a male. The subsequent demographic in balance would be worked out by lots of male orcs dying in battle.

Diplomacy

Previously Orcs largely interacted among themselves, leading to few diplomatic relations and most of said relations being violent ones. The power structure of Draenor largely went Draenei>Ogres>Orcs for a long time meaning the Orcs couldn't throw their weight around, though in later years obviously the Orcs managed to overtake and slaughter the other groups. In the modern Horde the Orcs are the most powerful faction, far more populous and vigorous than the Tauren or Trolls, and they're also more powerful than (most) of their neighbours, leading to a certain bellicosity and sense of superiority.

Orcish and Horde culture in general

I've spoken about society but not necessarily about culture. Lots of its fairly obvious, martial prowess is glorified, duels are frequently fought over various issues, sometimes to the death. Hunting is promoted both for utility and as a social activity, and I can certainly see older orcs taking teams of younger ones out to show them how it's done, indoctrinate them etc. Singing is apparently regarded well for certain ceremonial purposes. There will also be foreign exports into the culture like gladiators and slavery. The communal focus will be being eroded over time with the centralisation of the community and interaction with other cultures like the goblins or humans, but there'll be plenty of cases left, such as the communal bunkhouses I've mentioned, the practice of hospitality and so on. So for fun I'd say orcs would either indulge in martial pursuits, tell stories and so on. As a primitive society they don't have the regimentation for leisure time, and there hasn't been enough development to entrench various institutions which aren't directly linked to warfare, so no, no dance clubs. Some practices are clan specific, like reading and writing or general scholarship for the Burning Blade, craft work for the Blackrock, animal taming for the Thunderlords. Some practices are looked down on, probably things like gladiatorial combat due to the associations with slavery and combat for gain rather than to survive etc.

The poor

As the heir of a clan you're doing pretty well. However canonically Orgrimmar is also full of destitute clanless orcs which Garrosh observes on his arrival. I assume these orcs are those who've fallen out of society for some reason, or are too poor to participate, such as not being able to afford weapons etc. They might also just be the smaller orcs, which actually raises an interesting point about them being simply non-fel corrupted orcs which the green orcs perceive as weaker. You've also got peons, a servile class which are exploited by the warrior caste and who do all the basic work.

Thrall's policies

Having a think about it I think some of Thrall's policies may have backfired on him.
  • He intended to centralise the Horde more to get control of his warriors and stop them wandering about raiding stuff. What he managed to do was centralise the culture around the Warsong and Blackrock ideals of valour and discipline.
  • Thrall's choice of Durotar as a home means the Orcs have to go out and fight rather than farming or similar
  • As mentioned the 'blame it on Gul'dan' policies also backfire because people do that instead of taking responsibility. Similar issue with young warriors looking up to Grom and being told he's a hero rather than just a greedy idiot.
  • Thrall tries for a neutral bureaucracy in the human fashion rather than a clan specialisation in Blackhand's way, but ends up just making the bigger clans stronger at the expense of the little ones.
  • Thrall doesn't like warlocks, and his policies (continuing Doomhammer's) discourage their development, driving most toward the (traitorous) Burning Blade clan. This means the Horde loses the only magical support its had for 20 years. Recently shaman have started cropping up again, which again provides the magical support. However this means shaman are being perceived as generic magic users rather than as spiritual advisers which erodes Thrall's attempts to revive the shamanistic traditions of the Horde.



Happy to develop this post further if any questions come up. Remember to vote on the latest update (whenever you're reading this).
 
The Mak’gora
Remember to vote for the latest update's choices, or indeed for whenever you might be reading this.

Mak'gora

This is the infopost for the Mak'gora.

Firstly, I really want to emphasise that the Mak'gora is a social custom, not a codified rite, therefore what is and isn't allowed changes based on context, as well frankly on the effort Blizzard's writers go to when they're using it in their stories as I'm not sure they have a clear idea themselves. This also means I'm extrapolating from the mess of canon and the historical judicial and honour duels that inspire the Mak'gora.

Firstly, to go through the basics, the Mak'gora is a socially arranged fight between two parties. This duel primarily focuses on honour, and the name means 'Duel of Honour', however the definitions of honour change significantly depending on who you're talking to. Sometimes it is actually a duel of honour because one party has offended the other, other times it appears to serve as a violent political confrontation, and in other cases it stands in for leadership competitions.

The 'traditional' Mak'gora, as fought by the Orcs of Old Draenor was conducted with matched, shaman blessed weapons, without armour, and to the death, on even ground. A straight fight, no space for inequalities of equipment or similar. The Ogres also practice the Mak'gora and given their shared ancestry with the orcs we can assume they practice it in the same fashion. I'm not going to list all the different instances of duels, you can find them with a quick search. Generally we can assume the MG follows the same sorts of customary laws that real duels did, for example no dishonourable conduct like poison, using only equal weapons to your enemy and so on.

There are several inconsistencies with how the Mak'gorais portrayed. I'm aware of these so please don't cite them to me at some later date, some of the inconsistencies will be due to poor writing, some due to specific contexts. For example, to break down different parts:

  • Some parties clearly have far superior equipment than other parties, whereas other duels operate on the enforced equality method
  • Sometimes the duel isn't to the death, and sometimes this is acceptable to all parties, but sometimes sparing an opponent can cause great shame on the spared party, the Warsong have a special duel which is explicitly not to the death
  • Sometimes duels decide political outcomes, sometimes familial quarrels, sometimes leadership contests
  • You can challenge upwards in rank/prestige/status, and sideways, but apparently not downwards, which would likely be perceived as dishonourable.
  • Presumably people who try to do lots of duels end up dead quickly, either in said duels or because people won't put up with their nonsense
  • Generally cross-species duelling appears to be acceptable, though in one case the receiver of the challenge tries to back out claiming that cross-species duels aren't allowed
  • In said occasion a champion is used, but isn't used anywhere else and frankly seems to be rather against the spirit of things
  • Following on from the 'equality' principle magic appears to be permitted if both parties are magic users, but not if only one party is
  • If a duel is regarding a political dispute and the opposition party defeats the incumbent party this doesn't magically change everyone's opinions, only those who accept the validity of the Mak'goraand honour it
  • Most cultures can at least comprehend the Mak'gora, with some cultures honouring it less
  • Generally Mak'goras are declared publicly, but sometimes they're not explicit and are spontaneous fights which serve largely the same purpose
  • Thrall canonically has tried to alter the conditions of the Mak'gora to make it less deadly, no doubt to prevent fights among his warriors, and to prevent needless death and strife. He may have attempted to ban it entirely
  • MGs appear to be a sort of 'free action' where you can kill someone without the usual repercussions such as their family wanting to get revenge
  • There appears to be some points about who challenges whom and the subsequent result of a duel but these would likely depend on context.
  • The challenged party seems to be able to refuse challenges on certain grounds, specifically Ogres refuse Mak'goras from other races, because the challenger isn't an ogre or a member of the same ogre clan. We may assume that this is fairly flexible, but it does demonstrate legitimate grounds for refusal.

There are some really bad points in writing in certain places that quite annoy me as someone who likes worldbuilding. For example, Saurfang (yes again, I really don't like him) challenges Malfurion to a Mak'gora to buy time to get Horde forces into the right position. According to most accepted Rules of War this would be regarded as a false ceasefire and perfidy, which when reading it on its face means that yet again Saurfang is pretending to be all honourable but completely failing to actually act like it. Happily Malfurion is wise to Saurfang's nonsense and ignores the challenge.

Similarly, Thrall felt guilty that he stomped Garrosh with magic in WoD, with the implication being he cheated because the Elements stopped responding to him afterward. This is nice and thematic, it demonstrates the narrative idea that 'Thrall failed Garrosh' which I like. However, then the audience come along and say 'Garrosh knew who he was fighting, if you challenge a magic user you should expect them to do magic', which is swiftly disproven when looking at the Durotan/Gul'dan MG where everyone starts shouting that Gul'dan is cheating when the later uses the Fel to kill Durotan easily.

I welcome any questions on this if you're thinking of challenging someone so I can weigh in on the likely outcomes as I wouldn't want you thinking one thing and then me merrily writing something else. I've had some specific questions, some of which are answered above but I don't mind stating explicitly here as well given these were the specific questions I got. Feel free to add more Qs and I'll expand this section.

What Mak'gora specifically can and cannot do for us.

Massively depends on circumstance. The most commons thing for it to do is violently transfer leadership (Doomhammer vs Blackhand) or prove your political cause to be the stronger in a society which values strength (Cairne vs Garrosh).

The MG is not some magic mind control option. It does not guarantee obedience, even among traditionalist orcs. Nor, generally speaking, does it appear to allow you to take over clans or polities you're not 'native' to and therefore to expand your holdings. This sort of thing happened in Norse duels irl, a duellist would go about insulting people and challenging them, killing them and taking their property but I think the Orcs would look poorly on this.

Will authority bestowed by winning a Mak'gora apply to all segments and races of this new Horde?

Depends what Mak'gora. If you challenge your superior for leadership of a military formation, that will likely be honoured by both the higher superiors, as well as inferior ranks. In the former case because they don't want to disrupt the culture, in the later because they perceive it as a legitimate transfer of power. Generally speaking all orcs, ogres, most trolls and most Tauren will accept the logic and legitimacy of a Mak'gora, though individuals obviously differ. Comparably do you think Sylvanus will care at all that one brute killed another brute? Humans and elves are a more mixed bag really depending on context. If Turalyon walked into Orgrimmar and declared a Mak'gora he'd have an excellent chance of taking leadership given he's a war hero and worthy warrior even to the Orcs. Similarly see Lothar vs Blackhand. Comparably, if the Lich King walked up instead his challenge would be ignored because he's an inhuman horror known to be evil.

Is there anything that disqualifies you from challenging people

It would be exceptionally dishonourable to challenge anyone who's weakened or incapacitated in some way. This would include pregnancy, injury, disability, great age or other 'weakness'. It would likely be nebulously less honourable to challenge individuals obviously weaker than yourself, such as men vs women, larger races vs smaller races, that sort of thing.

I would extrapolate that there's likely to be a prohibition on challenging shaman and other 'holy' personnel as there was a prohibition on killing priests irl. I can see shaman having 'shaman duels' between themselves, same for warlocks etc, but killing a shaman is likely to generally be perceived quite negatively, though again this depends on context.

You also appear to need to be at least proximate in rank, and challenge up or sideways. You can't be some peasant or someone with no name and try to take the Warchief, you'd have to have just cause to challenge. Similarly it would be expected to be dishonourable to challenge junior people, whether in rank, ability or age, though theoretically I can see someone being so rude the junior person has to declare a MG to salvage their honour.

What you can or can't do in the duel.

Depends on the rules, but most of these can be thought of quite easily. Mak'goras are public so everyone's going to see if you pull out a secret weapon or if your opponent is staggering bout because you've poisoned them. The conditions may or may not be decided beforehand, but you'll pick up most of it through social context.
 
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Are Elementals 'people'?
er, what?

"you" is missing here somewhere.


Hmm, it may come out as wrong, but how correct would be to consider elementals "people"? It might be my experience with DnD where they were used as fodder (and especially in earlier editions a mage has to do Control checks to prevent it from turning on a summoner), but I placed a relationship between shamans and elementals roughly in the same category as one between druids/beastmasters and animals. Which is why Kardris' explanation made a lot of sense - no culture sees breaking in a steed as something particularly reprehensible, even though a druid could probably cajole one into carrying them willingly.

Higher/mightier elementals probably have greater sentience and may warrant different considerations, but they are also not trivially bound.
Well, for a start there are enough elementals that are sufficiently sentient to require their own language Kalimag with even "minor manifestations of fire" able to speak it

T ma suz'ahn reth T ma fiilrok tadrom dra T krin os nuk talsa reth krin shone sto toro tu ko zoln reth
I am eternal fire. I am forever reborn and I will be the light that will guide you when it is most cold.


Furthermore, while Kalimag is the overall language each elemental plane has its own sub-dialect, Ignan (fire), Aquan (water), Terran (earth), and Auran (air).

That alone is pretty compelling evidence that yeah a lot of them are "people" you don't need a lingua franca, never mind specific sub dialects unless there's a lot of people to speak it and what's more those people are interacting with other very different people on a regular basis.

Furthermore they've a sufficiently large society that they have a hierarchy of nobles seemingly out of requirement not just power. Forneaus isn't just a duke of the earth because it sounds cool, its because he is a legitimately delegated authority from Therazane and manages a large chunk of her realm. A better example is probably Al'Akir, who specifically has a lord for each of the 4 winds,

Anshal, Lord of the West Wind
Nezir, Lord of the North Wind
Rohash, Lord of the East Wind
Siamat, Lord of the South Wind

And what's more when Ragnaros is slain the firelands go into an out and out succession crisis, with different factions that make up the fire lands going at each other to try and take his place. In the end the child of one of Ragnaros's lieutenants (Pyroth, son of lord Rhyolith) and Smolderon emerge as the dominant factions. (Smolderon wins).

There's more stuff I can point too, but it all leads back to a similar point, they have need for so many of the things that a large complex society of people requires that its hard to say that they're not one. In fact 4 since each are functionally independent kingdoms.

The TLDR as far as I can tell is that as a society they have far too many institutions and complexities for them not to be people, not people with organic ways of looking at the world to be fair, but even minor manifestations can speak, feel pain and offer assistance.
 
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Various powerups
I see. Service for power which is expected. Plus the negotiation which is all within expectations.
So the various ways you could potentially power up you specifically are:

Alchemy, such as the Bonechewers' Dire Orc creation process
Lightforging, such as the Lightforged Draenei
Titanforging, such as turning someone into something earthy, either diamonds like Magni, iron like Lokir's guys, or stone like the Earthen
Fel, either direct empowerment, drinking demon blood or whatever process makes fel orcs
Elemental ascendency, like the Twilight's Hammer do
Dragon stuff, like the different breeds of Dragonkin
Specific spiritual empowerment, most notably through Wild Gods, Guardians, or Loa, this one is pretty broad and goes from everything from the troll habit to take on various animalistic forms to the empowerment monks and druids get from their patrons.

Some of these are mutually exclusive, some aren't. For example I can see that a Red Dragonkin could also get some power off a Wild God because the patrons are basically allied. Comparably some would replace others, Xera tried to Lightforge Illidan who was already Fel-empowered because he was a demon hunter and it looked like the light was replacing the Fel stuff.

Some of this stuff would also require a patron, some wouldn't. Some would require negotiation and service, some wouldn't.

Also you could get power ups from particular magic items.
 
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