Bones
Don't look behind you.
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- Behind you.
It has been referred to by that name. Multiple times, in fact.
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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)
- Thread starter Dr. Snark
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- star wars canon what canon tsundere dice ck2 quest actions have consequences all the credits all work and no play makes ciaran a dull girl best sister capitalism ho! despairing qm teetotaller society member gotta catch 'em all insanity looting off the rails sage dice approaching spicy sheev tsundere asajj
It has been referred to by that name. Multiple times, in fact.
Stealthy
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Even if we got that holocron and didn't get caught/called out/whatever (guaranteed the Jedi would notice it was missing and sound the alarm, and would be down our throats after we made it rather obvious that we had it), we'd still need an actual infrastructure and hierarchy to train those recruits. Not to mention an actual direction and central concept behind the teachings. Ciaran may be Darth Traya, but even then her views on the Force rely more on rejecting the Jedi/Sith dualism than anything else. And the Force abilities we learn are mostly a mismash of the various ways of the Force floating about the galaxy.
Any "Order" we'd have to go off of would be based on having a variety of Force Powers to learn and accepting the idea of multiple paths (which are all better than the Jedi and Sith). That doesn't really mesh nicely into forming the Order of Ciaran. Instead, it meshes into the Ciaran Center of Force Studies where we take the Chu'unthor and make it an intergalactic exchange of alternative Force Sects. Curating that should be the goal.
Neutralizing the Jedi as a threat to our ownership of the galaxy requires them to be politically neutered. Palpatine went and annihilated the lot of them, but the Ciaran way is more subtle. By elevating a collective which we have influence over, the Jedi lose their spot as the Republic's go-to for all their Force Needs. And, just maybe, the Jedi's indoctrinating philosophies will have less effect as we so readily offer their members an alternative view of things. It's about subverting them more than subduing them.
Any "Order" we'd have to go off of would be based on having a variety of Force Powers to learn and accepting the idea of multiple paths (which are all better than the Jedi and Sith). That doesn't really mesh nicely into forming the Order of Ciaran. Instead, it meshes into the Ciaran Center of Force Studies where we take the Chu'unthor and make it an intergalactic exchange of alternative Force Sects. Curating that should be the goal.
Neutralizing the Jedi as a threat to our ownership of the galaxy requires them to be politically neutered. Palpatine went and annihilated the lot of them, but the Ciaran way is more subtle. By elevating a collective which we have influence over, the Jedi lose their spot as the Republic's go-to for all their Force Needs. And, just maybe, the Jedi's indoctrinating philosophies will have less effect as we so readily offer their members an alternative view of things. It's about subverting them more than subduing them.
"Ciaran Foundation" only gets used like once in the whole of the two threads though. And it's an off-hand mention. So yeah there isn't much of a name really. So asking around for a name seems fine.
Oh wait, a quick search of the thread leads me to believe that it, uh, was just used like one time. =/
And it was just Publicola making a play on words for the alliteration of it when talking about the action picked.
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I could get behind 'Gray Wardens' as well, though I wonder if that'd be better as the name of our Tier 3 agents? Or the name of our individual Force faction within our own Abyss Watchers organization...
I'm rather fond of 'Argent League' or 'Argent Accords' as the name for our 'banding together the non-Jedi' effort, though.
Pretty much.
Also remember that we founded the 'Security Company' as a big-picture concern, and that our efforts to protect the Senate are only one part of that operation (albeit, the biggest part by far). Think of it as 'Senatorial Security Systems' as being one division or department within 'Aegis Security'.
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[X] Silver Cross
[X] Solar Solutions
Trying to stick with a Dark Souls theme (if for whatever reason we formerly introduce our Agents to the Galaxy) I'd like to suggest The Covenant of Cinders.
I remember in a Lore video where it talks about the cycle of the Souls series is the ebb and flow of Fire and Dark, each opposed to each other, but never truly being able to overcome each other and have a true victory. For the stronger the flame, the deeper the shadow cast. However, even if you smother the First Flame in Darkness, there will always be a few Cinders hidden in the ashes waiting for fuel to ignite once more. Our agents are those Cinders, taught about the Dark Side so that they will resist its self-destructive nature and able to hide in the eyes of the Force.
Edit: I'm also trying to think who the new Taris Prime Minister could be. I have several theories, but the one that most amuses me is a shout out to Darth and Droids, a Cyborg Valorum gone bitter and slightly crazy from both his years out of office and fearing for his life from Palpatine:
[X] Solar Solutions
Trying to stick with a Dark Souls theme (if for whatever reason we formerly introduce our Agents to the Galaxy) I'd like to suggest The Covenant of Cinders.
I remember in a Lore video where it talks about the cycle of the Souls series is the ebb and flow of Fire and Dark, each opposed to each other, but never truly being able to overcome each other and have a true victory. For the stronger the flame, the deeper the shadow cast. However, even if you smother the First Flame in Darkness, there will always be a few Cinders hidden in the ashes waiting for fuel to ignite once more. Our agents are those Cinders, taught about the Dark Side so that they will resist its self-destructive nature and able to hide in the eyes of the Force.
Edit: I'm also trying to think who the new Taris Prime Minister could be. I have several theories, but the one that most amuses me is a shout out to Darth and Droids, a Cyborg Valorum gone bitter and slightly crazy from both his years out of office and fearing for his life from Palpatine:
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Is a title or order name even really appropriate though?
Ciaran trains and hires Force-sensitives for a purpose, to get skilled operatives with magic powers; not to instill a creed or philosophy. Ciaran picks them up because people with magic powers are useful and you'd want such people working for you if possible. And they just get labeled by their role and level of proficiency; so, apprentice or agent (and presumably later on "master") or something like that.
Any Force-sensitives that join are just... part of our organization. At this point everybody with the Force in our group, collectively, would just get described as 'Abyss Watchers who are Force-sensitive.'
Ciaran trains and hires Force-sensitives for a purpose, to get skilled operatives with magic powers; not to instill a creed or philosophy. Ciaran picks them up because people with magic powers are useful and you'd want such people working for you if possible. And they just get labeled by their role and level of proficiency; so, apprentice or agent (and presumably later on "master") or something like that.
Any Force-sensitives that join are just... part of our organization. At this point everybody with the Force in our group, collectively, would just get described as 'Abyss Watchers who are Force-sensitive.'
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- Location
- america
false
the force is a conceptual thing, if you view it as just a tool like we did then you will never learn or use it to it's full potential.
the very strongest of force user's are those that understand to the best of their ability what it is. or are complete bullshit like anikin
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
The Fifth Company or Fifth Column would be a fitting name for our Tier III force users as I imagine part of the rite to be acknowledged as that rank would be a trip the the Malachor system so that each of them understand in their own way the full impact of the power of the Force in an emulation of Ciaran`s own revelation.
Combined with the very nature of how we have taught them to operate and how Ciaran has made use of them. They are consummate spies and saboteurs, assassins and extortionists, and so being named after both the importance of Malachor V to the Abyss Watchers understanding of the Force and the term "Fifth Company".
Combined with the very nature of how we have taught them to operate and how Ciaran has made use of them. They are consummate spies and saboteurs, assassins and extortionists, and so being named after both the importance of Malachor V to the Abyss Watchers understanding of the Force and the term "Fifth Company".
I'm well aware; I read the "Echoes of Malachor" interlude too. I know that Ciaran became more aware of what the Force is and what it means to her.
I wasn't saying that it is just a tool and that Ciaran views it as a tool. I guess I just worded things badly, and was trying to be terse instead of writing walls of text....
I'm pointing out that she doesn't have a goal or philosophical creed for her Force-users as a collective. She might teach philosophy to Force-sensitive Abyss Watchers, but she doesn't indoctrinate them into a singular, purposeful, religion or a Buddhist-like-philosophy, is basically my point. (Gah, I'm still saying it badly... Because she probably does try to have her Abyss Apprentices/Agents be taught and trained in philosophy too, possibly in a particular or specific one... but it'd probably be mostly centered around 'how to use your powers responsibly' to avoid falling to the Dark Side. Probably some history lessons and some 'Here is what the Jedi think, here is what other sects thing, etc' ... I guess what I'm basically trying to say, is that Ciaran is not a Jedi nor a Sith; and she doesn't view her organization's people as Jedi or Sith, nor does she approach the situation as a Jedi or Sith would.)
(Like, as far as sects go, she and her people are probably closer to the Blazing Chain pirates? Because of how the Blazing Chain probably approach the whole thing.)
People have talked about stuff like "a Grey Order of Jedi" or "some organization that contrasts with the Jedi?" and I'm pointing out that Ciaran... doesn't really think of it in that way.
Also... Just because she's no longer as materialistic about what the Force is after her personal revelation, doesn't mean she's changed her mind about the power and usefulness and potential of people who wield the Force. That is to say: she still thinks that having access to Magical Space Wizards is awesome (because it is).
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- Location
- america
a force sect does not mean "the jedi/sith but nicer/have emotions"
if i could make it the grey wardens(that name is kinda awesome) would view the force not as a godly force, but as life and their ability to effect that life made manifest
also she doesn't see it as a tool. she see's it as a living breathing thing that connects all of life, but unlike the jedi or sith she sees and love's all of it. a jedi see's the the garden(the force) and get's rid of all the spider's the bug's the spider's hunt start to multiply. the sith take away the bee's the plant's can no longer move it's seed.(this analogy kinda got away with me) we do nothing but care for and cultivate the garden and all in it.
Panory
The Omake Dragon
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Palpatine was never found out. Apparently Cad Bane doesn't snitch on his employers. And getting it would be as simple as handing the guy a suitcase of money and pointing him at the Jedi Temple. The man does good work.
We're working towards our giant automated former-Jedi ship atm. Jedi Temple in space seems like good enough infrastructure. That fact that it's stolen just reinforces the type of mentality we want in our Agents. Steal everything you can. As for hierarchy, we already rank our Agents by proficiency, and that works well enough for the Jedi.
Again, it's not like the Jedi don't allow for versatility. Yoda fights nothing like Mace for example. We'd just have all the versatility.
Exactly. I just don't see why it wouldn't also work as an Order of some kind since we're still being selective about who we let in. I'm not proposing we take every Force sensitive child, but it would seriously help identify people who can use the Force earlier.
That's strong.
I don't really see why that matters. The Sith are one of the two most recognized Force Sects, and they certainly didn't have a central philosophy. "Sith" puts Darth Sidious together with Darth Vectivus. There appears to be plenty of wiggle room.
Incidentally, @Dr. Snark, did the Hutt-Republic Alliance thing ever work out?
And speaking of "taking over Ziro's assets" -- do people realize that Borvo the Hutt runs his own criminal empire? Both Teron and Dr. Snark have mentioned it before -- and even though it wasn't included among our 'Other' assets in the Anti-Palpatine Report, it's apparently quite formidable.
It even has a name: Nal Raka Criminal Empire
Per the article, Borvo started out with "outposts on dozens of worlds," mostly concentrated around the Naboo system. He also secured a little-known hyperlane running through the nearby Enmaekeda Nebula, extending his influence toward the southern end of Hutt Space. Like any Hutt worth his salt, Borvo also owns property on Nal Hutta. Of course, since he started working for us, his center of power has shifted to Coruscant -- he even owns a Palace complex near our undercity base.
More to the point, thanks to our 'Hunt for Rotta' action, Borvo also received control over the assets of Ziro the Hutt:
Which is both more and less impressive when you remember that Ziro was involved in the Black Sun:
On the other hand, according to Wookiepedia, this was apparently Ziro the Hutt's formal title:
Safe to say there was quite a few assets left to take over. Spcifically, given Ziro's identity as both a prominent Hutt crime lord as well as a Vigo of the Black Sun, I'm inclined to say that Ziro's assets were mostly concentrated to the northern end of Hutt Space, especially in the Periphery sector -- that was officially/technically part of Hutt Space (per the Clone Wars map) even though it was dominated by systems once controlled by the Black Sun.
This wouldn't affect our consolidation of Ord Mantell or the rest of Black Sun's assets -- it was a galaxy-spanning organization, after all. But it is entirely possible that Borvo the Hutt is the one in control of Af'El and its neighbors.
@Panory, would you be interested in writing an omake based on this -- how Ciaran responds, when she learns that Borvo got there first?
I haven't seen it included in any Rumor Mills since it was mentioned back in Turn 21.
And speaking of "taking over Ziro's assets" -- do people realize that Borvo the Hutt runs his own criminal empire? Both Teron and Dr. Snark have mentioned it before -- and even though it wasn't included among our 'Other' assets in the Anti-Palpatine Report, it's apparently quite formidable.
It even has a name: Nal Raka Criminal Empire
Per the article, Borvo started out with "outposts on dozens of worlds," mostly concentrated around the Naboo system. He also secured a little-known hyperlane running through the nearby Enmaekeda Nebula, extending his influence toward the southern end of Hutt Space. Like any Hutt worth his salt, Borvo also owns property on Nal Hutta. Of course, since he started working for us, his center of power has shifted to Coruscant -- he even owns a Palace complex near our undercity base.
More to the point, thanks to our 'Hunt for Rotta' action, Borvo also received control over the assets of Ziro the Hutt:
Which is both more and less impressive when you remember that Ziro was involved in the Black Sun:
So we took a sledgehammer to Ziro's holdings, which led him to kidnap Rotta to regain his influence & income, which led to his fall and Borvo's rise. Not sure how much was left for Borvo to take over.
On the other hand, according to Wookiepedia, this was apparently Ziro the Hutt's formal title:
Safe to say there was quite a few assets left to take over. Spcifically, given Ziro's identity as both a prominent Hutt crime lord as well as a Vigo of the Black Sun, I'm inclined to say that Ziro's assets were mostly concentrated to the northern end of Hutt Space, especially in the Periphery sector -- that was officially/technically part of Hutt Space (per the Clone Wars map) even though it was dominated by systems once controlled by the Black Sun.
This wouldn't affect our consolidation of Ord Mantell or the rest of Black Sun's assets -- it was a galaxy-spanning organization, after all. But it is entirely possible that Borvo the Hutt is the one in control of Af'El and its neighbors.
@Panory, would you be interested in writing an omake based on this -- how Ciaran responds, when she learns that Borvo got there first?
Speaking of Agents, I believe this is also the first turn that we get to roll the chance for our Agents to upgrade.
Well, clearly the highest title for Ciaran's Agents must be 'Abyss Walker'.
As for the order's name, I think that must wait for Ciaran's own understanding of the Force to stabilise into something coherent. The pilgrimage to Malachor started that but Ciaran needs to walk further, understand more.
Kreia stripped Ciaran of her ignorance of what the Force is, now I think Ciaran must come to a realisation of the nature of the different broad strokes of the Force.
Given the interpretation we're working with Ciaran must understand Light and Dark and then betray them both. Understand balance.
Heh, then I think she must understand the absence, the death of the Force. I think Ciaran, after her studies and pilgrimages will find the culmination of her journey back at the ruins of Malachor V, her understanding will be complete when she can walk in the Abyss and return greater for it.
EDIT: Oh wait! A name! The Lords of Cinder!
As for the order's name, I think that must wait for Ciaran's own understanding of the Force to stabilise into something coherent. The pilgrimage to Malachor started that but Ciaran needs to walk further, understand more.
Kreia stripped Ciaran of her ignorance of what the Force is, now I think Ciaran must come to a realisation of the nature of the different broad strokes of the Force.
Given the interpretation we're working with Ciaran must understand Light and Dark and then betray them both. Understand balance.
Heh, then I think she must understand the absence, the death of the Force. I think Ciaran, after her studies and pilgrimages will find the culmination of her journey back at the ruins of Malachor V, her understanding will be complete when she can walk in the Abyss and return greater for it.
EDIT: Oh wait! A name! The Lords of Cinder!
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Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
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We'll go with that sure. It's more interesting anyway. It'll be an upgrade for Kalee next turn.
Very nice, again big thanks to random_npc for the idea and you for formatting it.
To be fair, Ciaran's teams are just salvaging what they can. They might be officially called the "Undercity Restoration Teams" or whatver, but the Watchers know better.
I'll get back to you on that next turn.
Edit: Oh right, you all were wanting to properly name things while I was out. Keep up with the voting if you want, I'll formalize whatever you guys end up going with in the next 12 hours.
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I've been struggling to put words to things, to describe what I think would be different about Ciaran and her organization and how it might differ from other sects... How would her Force-sensitive group differ from, say, Dathomiri Witches or Nightsisters or Blazing Chain pirates or the Iron Knights or Matukai?
And I think that the main difference is that all those groups are groups.
They are cultures. Societies. They all usually consist of a bunch of people who are all a part of some culture.
Ciaran is just one person who learned about the Force from Holocrons, and hired a pirate tutor, and then just shared knowledge of the Force and provided training to people.
She doesn't really have a cultural background of the Force.
I mean, yeah, that's self-evident, but... Even a lone Force-sensitive who picks up a Sith Holocron and eventually decides to become a Sith Lord, is a person who is drawing upon the tradition and culture of the Sith. Even a Jedi who decides to abandon the Jedi order and decides to park himself on some planet in order to start teaching the locals, is somebody who is drawing on some amount of tradition and culture of the Jedi, he was still formerly a part of an already-existing society even if he chose to leave it.
Ciaran... wasn't part of anything. Maybe not even have had all that much Miralukan influence of tradition/culture and Force-related culture (with a Force-sensitive race, there's bound to be overlap and blending there)? There might be some -- the Darth Nihilus thing was a huge deal of course -- and there might be some acculturation she picked up from her planet, but... I dunno. I dunno how much. I give it a solid 'maybe' here.
She's not starting from scratch in terms of knowledge, because she has Holocrons and Tyro and Vectivus. But as far as cultural identity as a Force tradition goes? Yeah, she's more or less starting from scratch.
And I think that the main difference is that all those groups are groups.
They are cultures. Societies. They all usually consist of a bunch of people who are all a part of some culture.
Ciaran is just one person who learned about the Force from Holocrons, and hired a pirate tutor, and then just shared knowledge of the Force and provided training to people.
She doesn't really have a cultural background of the Force.
I mean, yeah, that's self-evident, but... Even a lone Force-sensitive who picks up a Sith Holocron and eventually decides to become a Sith Lord, is a person who is drawing upon the tradition and culture of the Sith. Even a Jedi who decides to abandon the Jedi order and decides to park himself on some planet in order to start teaching the locals, is somebody who is drawing on some amount of tradition and culture of the Jedi, he was still formerly a part of an already-existing society even if he chose to leave it.
Ciaran... wasn't part of anything. Maybe not even have had all that much Miralukan influence of tradition/culture and Force-related culture (with a Force-sensitive race, there's bound to be overlap and blending there)? There might be some -- the Darth Nihilus thing was a huge deal of course -- and there might be some acculturation she picked up from her planet, but... I dunno. I dunno how much. I give it a solid 'maybe' here.
She's not starting from scratch in terms of knowledge, because she has Holocrons and Tyro and Vectivus. But as far as cultural identity as a Force tradition goes? Yeah, she's more or less starting from scratch.
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Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
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Since this is an interesting bit of character info I'll chime in with the Word of QM and say that she really hasn't. While her parents were Luka Sene scholars she and they never got along; Ciaran much preferred being around Silas when she had the chance and just ignored whatever her parents tried to teach her when she didn't.
Ah, thanks for elaborating a bit.
So, she probably osmosed some stuff that might have been common to her planet like maybe legends or stories or a few things (Darth Nihilus comes to mind, because fucking Darth Nihilus), and obviously she picked up how to see and read with the Force... but as far as the Luka Sene goes she basically really didn't pick up the philosophy at all?
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
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That involves reading and studying boring old philosophy books and listening to lectures from old people when Ciaran could be spending that time learning how to con people from Silas. You get the idea.
Panory
The Omake Dragon
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I agree, but we don't want to be Alexander the Great. We want our empire to survive our death and continue into the future. Meaning our Force sect of stolen Force sects will develop a culture as our Force users eventually grow in both number and skill going forward. Probably a culture that reflects our opportunistic nature of taking other Force sect techniques. Being based out of a stolen Jedi ship and having the first generations taught by a pirate just reinforces that. Picking a name is in preparation for that time. And on a meta level, it gives us a nice way to refer to "Abyss Watcher agents who can use the Force".
The Anything Goes school of Force arts, you might say.
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You have to remember that she hasn't really put all that much effort into the theory of the Force, she has just gotten over the fact that the Force is something more than a tool. Even then she did not really become a true practitioner of the Force until her mid 20s.
