How is "choosing to brave dangers together with your teammate" a failure of a test of teamwork? This is the most textbook example of an answer.
The only way it is the wrong answer is if it is actually meant to teach us that no matter how much faith we have in our friends, some challenges are impossible to beat and must be avoided.
Or, you know, that we shouldn't risk our team mates' lives for our personal greed. After all if one of us two agrees to give up the other still have the treasures, so it's only about personal greed if we try for the joint attack.
She stepped to the side of the path, ready to draw her flute or her knives at a moment's notice. "How long is he going to be stuck like that?" She asked warily.
He cocked his head to the side slightly, pausing in front of her. "A season perhaps?" He answered, sending chill down her spine at his casual coldness. His strange eyes flickered back in the frozen boys direction. "Nay, a full cycle of the moon morelike, without intervention. Does Sister Ling object?" He didn't sound hostile, or even all that interested in her answer.
Or, you know, that we shouldn't risk our team mates' lives for our personal greed. After all if one of us two agrees to give up the other still have the treasures, so it's only about personal greed if we try for the joint attack.
That seems highly illogical considering this is a sect of cultivators being trained for war. "fight alongside your comrades to complete the mission" is far more reasonable than "we mustn't ever put our friends at risk by fighting alongside them"
If you got it, you certainly didn't show it by posting a refutation. Actually, you still haven't posted a refutation; you just pivoted to saying "even if you are right and I'm wrong, actually I'm still right".
You know what; I'm done with this. @Codex has it right on this one.
That seems highly illogical considering this is a sect of cultivators being trained for war. "fight alongside your comrades to complete the mission" is far more reasonable than "we mustn't ever put our friends at risk by fighting alongside them"
Or "the objective and being efficient is more important". Sacrificing our team mate for no significant objective is not "completing the mission". The mission is going to be completed regardless of it being Meizhen or Ling Qi going past it here (or both). Risking the other's life is being greedy and not caring about our team mate, not "completing the objective".
EDIT: there is an argument about loyalty and how we should complete the missions together or not at all, but in this case it's more "fuck the mission, and fuck our lives, pride is more important".
Reread what it says. It says that a willing bindee will result in no trouble performing the binding. Not that the binding occurs differently.
Basically they automatically fail those resistance rolls and allow itself to be drained of Qi. Not that the draining is unnecessary when performing willing binding.
I explicitly gave reasons why you are still wrong on the overarching argument even if you are right about that point. "winning" a singular point doesn't magically make your overall argument true. Especially not when that point is explicitly self contradictory as per
You are trying to have your cake and eat it too.
Either it is a cooperative ritual (and) like I said where a dumb animal cannot perform the magic ritual.
Or it is a case where we perform the ritual and the animal needs to "not resist" as it feels us bind it and drain its Qi.
had a typo there. Was missing and which added in (). however that was patently obvious from all the other posts and the fact the sentence doesn't make any sense grammatically otherwise.
Except that the objective is to be a better team. You even explicitly said so earlier.
By pushing our partner into "being greedy" we forfeit the reward for both of us. Her for being deemed "greedy" and us for not bypassing the point.
EDIT: there is an argument about loyalty and how we should complete the missions together or not at all, but in this case it's more "fuck the mission, and fuck our lives, pride is more important".
It isn't about "pride and fuck the mission". Because not only is the reward halved, but the actual mission in this test is to get both of us to the end. We might have volunteered to come as her helper this one time. But the magic of the test doesn't know that unless there is an elder actively listening in on us while managing the test.
To me, it reads like he expected his binding to last a season, and upon close inspection, realized it would only hold him for a month.
Also, on Tea: I'm pretty sure the one Ling Qi started to appreciate is not the Medicinal one. IIRC, Meizhen once served us the typical nobility tea, and we found it awful, but with time, higher cultivation and drinking it frequently with Meizhen (as that's the one thing she consumes with us) we developed a taste for itl
This is why I said above that Han Jian is probably representative of the average "High Noble Heir" but that he is below where those usually are because of his lack of dedication, so instead of beginning at early yellow with a full art suite he is fairly below where he should have been.
I don't think coming in at Peak Red is the issue though. Didn't Cai come in at Red? She made her breakthrough to Yellow / Silver on Week 5, and we've heard that Han Jian has been trying to breakthrough the entire time. That's not lack of dedication; that's probably just a lower talent level and very unlucky breakthrough attempts. Given how long he's taking between breakthrough attempts, it's more likely he had to make up a bunch of successes to get back to the Peak.
The art suite, I'll buy though. If he came in at Peak Red, there's no reason he should be working (or just starting?) on his family arts since they should already be filled out to his cultivation level.
Eh, there's making a contract and there's beating them down. I believe both works on highly intelligent ones or lesser ones.
See, if we assume spirits of low intelligence not quite as different as typical beasts, we can see some comparison about domesticating or taming an animal through kind gestures. Of course, some of the more alien mindsets might require different treatment to get to their good side than your common wolf.
For the most part though, you probably still need to establish dominance against the lesser intelligent ones, if only to stop them from attacking or fleeing. This could be done by the initial formation entrapment, or perhaps by showing how far above the spirit the binder is.
On the other hand, I don't actually see the connection of Qi draining on a successful peaceful binding.
Binding through violence requires reducing their Qi, not draining, which is basically beating the Qi out of the damnable spirit, until it is too weak to physically defy the binder. After the spirit is downed, then the binder tries to force the contract, by a clash of wills.
So, there's steps to binding:
- 1st, pick your spirit! Either you hunt for random ones in the wild or you look through the archive to look for information about their habitat.
- 2nd, stop them from fleeing or attacking! This might be done either by preparing a formation trap, paralyze them with arts, bribe them with things they want, cow them by your sheer awesomeness, or simply beating the Qi out of their sorry hides.
- 3rd, bind them to your dantian! This happens two ways, one peacefully since you hash out the terms, or two you have a contest of wills!
- 4th, training! Now you have your spirit, but they are basically still spirits you grabbed from the wild, and might hide from you for random reasons, so you better train them to do what you want!
. . . Why did that list sound so cheery? Anyway, my observations.
Zhou certainly favored working in groups, but his second test pretty much ignored if not discouraged teamwork and we never found out his last test. Elder Su approved of us teaching Li Suyin, but she cut the chaff from her class without a warning or second chance and she pretty much told us not to trust our peers with knowledge of the special pill we got.
That really doesn't tell us much about the rest of the Sect. Some have argued that being near a military post and supplying it they must all embrace Zhou's values but firstly that doesn't jive with how he said he specifically does things differently and second it doesn't really fit the nature of a two-person test- if this was a 'squad level exercise' it should accommodate more people.
There's been some talk of the worm or bats or whatever as tests of friendship, but it could just as easily be set up to test two rivals- first the fakeout, then a test they can conserve resources with by working together, then the grueling final test one must face alone. a general test of endurance and wisdom, not cooperation. Any extrapolation of the motives of the Elder who set this up should be viewed here skeptically- if the Sect as a whole had some kind of overreaching moral beliefs they should be less ambiguous. It's likely different Elders will test for different things.
If progress for Physical cultivation and Spiritual cultivation mirrors to what they were in red/gold, it will be 120 mid/240late/360 peak (it was 20mid/40late/60peak). I am expecting a lot of your math are designed to look at 'worst case scenarios', but having a lot of your resource-use seems to be focusing on the less effective and more expensive resources as well as less than optimal repartition means that it gives a skewed representation of how many sect jobs per month we need to keep up close to maximal resource use.
Your right about how the math is more skewed towards the worse case just to be safe, which is why I don't even include the rerolls on ones. You're also right in that I'm not looking at future resource consumption and what would be the most optimal because I was taking what we have now and extrapolating it into the future to see how long it would take if nothing changes.
To give an answer about the numbers I used for Physical and Spiritual cultivation, I forgot the pattern and thought it was doubled each time. So yeah, those are probably wrong. If we are able to stick to the pattern that we were given in red then we can be done with physical and spiritual cultivation a lot sooner than I was expecting. That's always nice.
To me, it reads like he expected his binding to last a season, and upon close inspection, realized it would only hold him for a month.
Also, on Tea: I'm pretty sure the one Ling Qi started to appreciate is not the Medicinal one. IIRC, Meizhen once served us the typical nobility tea, and we found it awful, but with time, higher cultivation and drinking it frequently with Meizhen (as that's the one thing she consumes with us) we developed a taste for itl
Yeah I considered that but she does specifically mention there being benefits to drinking that tea that no longer applied to her so I figure it must be the herbal tea.
She would make enough for both of them. Even if it didn't benefit her anymore, she still enjoyed the taste of the tea now. Somewhere along the way the flavor had seemed to change. It had a certain spice to it that just perked her right back up, even when she was tired.
You have to look at the week after the breakthrough to see what rewards the Elder gives them. Because in Week 6, Zhou gives Cai Renxiang (and Zihao and Liling) the special version of the elixir, which I took to mean she had made it to Silver. Similarly, she received one of the Qi Foundation pills from Elder Su in Week 6 for her improvement in Week 5, which I took to mean she had made it to Yellow.
I don't remember where but IIRC, yrsillar made some comments to the fact that similar to Han Jian, people who make it to Yellow receive a last Qi Foundation pill to hand out even though they can't use it and won't get further Qi Foundation pills though after.
The pills looked the same to Ling Qi, and Elder Su didn't mention them being different, so Ling Qi assumes so. She's hardly a drug expert though. The only yellow winners so far though have been Han Jian, who just broke through, and Cai Renxiang, who won the first week and then never again.
Zhou certainly favored working in groups, but his second test pretty much ignored if not discouraged teamwork and we never found out his last test. Elder Su approved of us teaching Li Suyin, but she cut the chaff from her class without a warning or second chance and she pretty much told us not to trust our peers with knowledge of the special pill we got.
That really doesn't tell us much about the rest of the Sect. Some have argued that being near a military post and supplying it they must all embrace Zhou's values but firstly that doesn't jive with how he said he specifically does things differently and second it doesn't really fit the nature of a two-person test- if this was a 'squad level exercise' it should accommodate more people.
There's been some talk of the worm or bats or whatever as tests of friendship, but it could just as easily be set up to test two rivals- first the fakeout, then a test they can conserve resources with by working together, then the grueling final test one must face alone. a general test of endurance and wisdom, not cooperation. Any extrapolation of the motives of the Elder who set this up should be viewed her skeptically- if the Sect as a whole had some kind of overreaching moral beliefs they should be less ambiguous. It's likely different Elders will test for different things.
Personally I take it to mean that:
-If you gain something in a shared effort, you not only can but SHOULD share with the ones who committed the effort, and at the same time, be more careful of sharing with those outside that effort since you did not just earn it by your own power.
-If you offer something, you should either offset a debt or gain an asset, one way or another.
-For locations, their access should be managed to minimize conflict, actually monopolizing a location is difficult, and cannot be retracted. Putting groups into conflict over locations would not make friends but foes.
-For items, they are easy to share, as long as you make any potential attached heat clear. The simplest and most minor form of favors.
-For arts, we already know that locked Jade Slips mean that sharing an art is a considerable personal time investment on both sides to teach and learn. This is a major commitment, which puts the recipient in major debt. I'm not sure if teaching multiple people at once takes more time than teaching one though.
You have to look at the week after the breakthrough to see what rewards the Elder gives them. Because in Week 6, Zhou gives Cai Renxiang (and Zihao and Liling) the special version of the elixir, which I took to mean she had made it to Silver.
That suggests they are all in Silver, yes - but I don't think it implies they just broke through. This is the first time he gives out training aids; Cai didn't get the higher-ranked elixir earlier because nobody got anything earlier.
I don't remember where but IIRC, yrsillar made some comments to the fact that similar to Han Jian, people who make it to Yellow receive a last Qi Foundation pill to hand out even though they can't use it and won't get further Qi Foundation pills though after.
Why are you reading that as that being a last Qi Foundation pill, and them not getting further rewards after?
Anyway, this certainly shows that Cai was in Silver as of week 6 and in Yellow as of week 5, but I don't think we have any indication that she wasn't in Silver/Yellow before then, too.
It took only a few moments for Ling Qi to come to a decision. She had come to this place for a purpose after all. "Well, if you think this isn't a trap, I'll go back then Bai Meizhen," she said easily, turning to her friend while keeping a wary on on the bound spirit.
Bai Meizhen blinked, shaken from her thoughts. "As quickly and simply as that?" She asked, not seeming surprised, but perhaps a little bemused. "You give up advantage too easily Ling Qi," the pale girl pursed her lips, giving Ling Qi a look tinged with frustration.
Ling Qi rolled her eyes. "Don't start with that. I came here for you. You're the only reason I'm here, and you've helped me out since day one. What sort of worthless friend would I be if I didn't help you out now that I can?" The kind of 'friend' she was when she lived in the gutter scrabbling for scraps. She didn't want to be that kind of person anymore. There was no real freedom in that, just mindless survival. "I am sorry for upsetting you earlier," she added in a quieter voice. "But I don't want that to change anything between us."
Bai Meizhen stared silently at her for several long seconds, before pulling her eyes away. "...You're gratitude is noted," she replied with a hint of awkwardness. "I should not have reacted in such a vulgar fashion either, thank you Ling Qi."
"How wonderful," The massive tortoise rumbled dryly. "How touching. Get on with it though, will you, I have no desire to watch you apes act out a drama before my eyes."
Ling Qi shot the beast a dirty look and huffed. "He's got a point. We can talk over tea later, if you would like. I picked up an art earlier in the cave I can show you." The slip hadn't had the fragile, temporary feel that the archive ones had.
Meizhen made a quiet sound that might have been mistaken for a laugh if she hadn't covered her mouth with her sleeve. "Of course. I retrieved some rather potent medicines. We can work out the details of exchange after the task is finished." She turned to face the tortoise. "I will proceed then Spirit, with your permission. What need I do?"
The glowing reptile let out another burst of steam from it's maw, and made a gesture remarkably like a shrug with its limited mobility. "Walk past me child, I will send the other one back when you have passed the formation line at the back of the cave."
Bai Meizhen nodded sharply and stepped forward, Cui slithering along in her wake. Ling Qi only now noticed the silent awe the serpent was regarding the larger beast with. Ling Qi tensed as she watched her friend walk closer to the spirit, ready to fling a knife and at least distract the thing if she needed too, but her worry was for naught. Bai Meizhen disappeared around the things shell, pausing only to give her one final look.
A minute later, Ling Qi was shifting awkwardly from foot to foot, waiting for the tortoise to stop staring at her. She was beginning to feel a little unnerved under it's unblinking fiery gaze. "So… when do I go back?" She finally asked, screwing up her courage to speak again.
"When I feel like it," the tortoise grumbled, stone cracking beneath it as it's weight shifted. "Ape, what reason did you really have for coming here? I have been chained in this pit for fifty years, since the day that bastard betrayed and slew my master and the others, I've seen plenty of you empire apes pass me by. You're not that serpent child's lacky."
Ling Qi blinked, surprised at the things questioning. She crossed her arms, frowning at it. "You heard me. She's my friend, I'm repaying her earlier kindness," she hunched her shoulders at the pressure of the things attention, it's clear dissatisfaction with her response forcing her next words past her lips. "...I'm not lying. I came here for her. I'm glad I benefited as well, but I want to be a little less selfish," she finished, hunching her shoulders and lowering her eyes. "What's wrong with that?"
"Hmph, naive. The empire will crush that if it doesn't crush you," the tortoise scoffed. "You'll die forgotten with that kind of attitude."
"Everyone dies, and I'm not sure if I care about being forgotten," Ling Qi responded quietly. "I'd rather not do it for a long time… but I won't let fear chain me down anymore either." She knew what it was like to be on the edge of death, even if she tried not to think about it. She had spent half of her admittedly short life making decisions solely based on survival. She didn't want to do that anymore.
"Fool," the tortoise responded dismissively. "Ape, show me the fragments of Kohatu's core," it demanded, startling her. She didn't recognize the word it had impressed on her mind, but it had the feel of a name.
"Who?" She asked carefully, not wanting to admit anything, despite having a feeling that she knew what the beast was speaking of. "Please send me back now."
The tortoise let out an irritated noise, blasting her with uncomfortably hot steam. "Ape, do not try my patience. You know what I speak of. Show them to me!" Ling Qi shuddered under the weight of its ire, even as she shackles around its legs flared with icy light, sending frost crawling over its scales.
She pulled the core fragments from her ring hastily. Not wishing to try her luck. It hurt to think of losing some of her gains, but her life was more valuable. "H-here!" she said quickly, holding out the faintly pulsing lumps of organic crystal.
The crushing weight on her shoulders lessened and the tortoise eyed her with irritation. "Impudent child," it grumbled. "This is as much for my benefit as yours," it growled, fiery gaze turning to the fragments in her hand. It's eyes dimmed for a moment, the light from between its scales almost fading entirely. The creature pushed its head further out of its shell, closing the distance even as Ling Qi found herself unable to move, legs locked in place. She distantly heard a sound like stone shattering, and saw the ice beginning to crawl up over the tortoise's shell, even as cracks appeared in its frozen legs, seeping sluggish black blood.
She felt the unfathomable heat of its breath on her face for a moment before the point of its beak touched the fragments in her hands and a bright flash burned away her sight.
Lost Beast Core Fragments
When her vision returned, watery and full of spots, she saw the tortoise settling back into its pit, the frost on its body slowly retreating, and in her hands lay a stretched oval shape. It's surface felt like tough old leather, and was pitch black like a lump of obsidian shot through with veins of dark green, it was the size of both of her fists held together. She looked back up from the egg to the now wounded spirit beast in question, still blinking the spots from her vision.
"Something of us will leave this damned place," the tortoise rumbled tiredly. "Begone child."
Ling Qi had no further time to respond before characters flared brightly into existence around her, and the cave vanished.
Mystery Egg Acquired
When her senses returned, Ling Qi found herself standing before the great bronze doors in the cavern, holding uncomfortably hot egg in her hands. She stared blankly down at it for a moment. Why had it… she didn't really understand everything that had just transpired, but… she thought that this was a good thing… she had been thinking about binding a spirit for some time now.
Well assuming that whatever came out of this egg was within her ability to bind anyway, or that the egg hatched in any kind of reasonable time frame. For all she knew it would be an egg for the next decade. She brought her hands in, holding the egg against her chest. She didn't want to risk dropping it after all. The doors were still firmly shut though and there was no sign of Meizhen, so it seemed she was going to be waiting here for awhile.
Carefully cradling the egg, Ling Qi found a dry place to sit down and meditate while she waited, and internalize the experiences she had down in the bowels of the mountain.
She spent the better part of an hour in quiet contemplation until the sound of the doors behind her slowly opening awakened her from her reverie. She turned her head to see the doors creaking inward and Meizhen walking out, a thoughtful expression on her face. Cui was back in her smaller form, coiled around the girl's neck like an emerald choker.
"How did it go?" Ling Qi asked, drawing her friends attention. "No trouble I hope?"
"It was… thought provoking," Bai Meizhen responded quietly, sounding a little drained, and looking it too, with the way her gaze rested on the floor. "It would seem that I have acquired one month of personal lessons from Elder Ying."
Ling Qi furrowed her brows. "Who?" She asked.
Bai Meizhen's expression grew faintly exasperated for a moment, as she continued to stare down at the floor. "...Of course, how foolish of me," she sighed, shaking her head. She didn't seem particularly put out. "There are Elder's beyond the three who interacted with us previously Ling Qi. Elder Ying is charged with overseeing the defenses of the outer sect and the mortal region below. She is an… interesting woman," Meizhen explained, sounding a little unsure at the end.
Ling Qi hummed thoughtfully, well lessons with an Elder were a real prize. She supposed it made sense that there were more than three elders. "Well, remind me to ask about the rest of them later," Ling Qi responded after a moment. "Ready to go home then?" She asked cheerfully, standing up carefully with the egg cradled under one arm.
"Yes, I think…" Bai Meizhen finally turned to actually look at her and paused. "...Ling Qi, is that what I think it is?" She asked, her eyebrows rising, a note of bewilderment in her voice.
Ling Qi rubbed the back of her neck awkwardly and looked away. "...Look, I don't understand why the turtle got chatty and gave me an egg," she responded defensively.
"The…" Bai Meizhen rubbed her forehead with her hand, a pained expression crossing her face. "I am glad you did not call it that to it's face," she responded faintly. "…But still, only you Ling Qi, your fortune is inexplicable."
"I'll take that as a compliment," Ling Qi murmured uncomfortably.
"Let us… simply go home," Meizhen sighed, shaking her head again. Ling Qi was glad to see the coldness the girl had been showing earlier had faded, for the moment at least. She followed her friend out of the cave, ready to face a new day.
Gained 6 Mountainroot Bat Cores
Gained 1 Elder Mountainroot Bat Core
Dexterity 12/30
Stamina 14/20
Intelligence 12/20
Wits 12/15
Resolve 3/20
Manipulation 5/25
Composure 6/20
Formations 6/9
Occult 4/9
Athletics 5/15
Stealth 10/15
Survival 3/6
Empathy 1/12
Expression 7/12
Persuasion 1/12
Dodge 10/12
You have FIVE Major actions
[] Train with Han Jian and his group
-[] Physical or art
[] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
-[] Any
[] Take a job
-[] Specify
[] Visit the Archive
-[] Search for a technique
-[] Study formations
-[] Research the egg. What does it need to hatch?
[] See about getting some payback, start scouting out the habits and patterns of those who have offended you
[] Cultivate Argent Mirror with Bai Meizhen
[] Cultivate on your own
-[] Physical
-[] Spiritual
-[] Qi
-[] Meridian (which one?)
-[] Art(Which one?)
You have THREE minor actions. TWO minor actions may be traded for one additional major one. In addition, up to one additional minor action may be attached to a Major action as a subvote, provided both involve the same character.
[] Go out with Xiulan in your downtime, perhaps she can help you do something with your hair
-[] Ask about inviting Bai Meizhen
[] You are still worried about Suyin, perhaps the two of you could study formations together? It might get her mind off things
[] Spend some time with Su Ling, perhaps you can learn a little bit of hunting tactics and harvesting from her
[] Ask Su Ling about how to make use of beast cores, and the value of those you have
[] Spend some time with Han Jian outside of training, what do they do for fun?
[] Bring up the idea of training together with Meizhen. You are strong enough now, right?
[] Guangli seems like a reliable sort of boy. It couldn't hurt to thank him, even if its a bit belated
[] Head to the market for some shopping
[] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
Zhou certainly favored working in groups, but his second test pretty much ignored if not discouraged teamwork and we never found out his last test. Elder Su approved of us teaching Li Suyin, but she cut the chaff from her class without a warning or second chance and she pretty much told us not to trust our peers with knowledge of the special pill we got.
That really doesn't tell us much about the rest of the Sect. Some have argued that being near a military post and supplying it they must all embrace Zhou's values but firstly that doesn't jive with how he said he specifically does things differently and second it doesn't really fit the nature of a two-person test- if this was a 'squad level exercise' it should accommodate more people.
There's been some talk of the worm or bats or whatever as tests of friendship, but it could just as easily be set up to test two rivals- first the fakeout, then a test they can conserve resources with by working together, then the grueling final test one must face alone. a general test of endurance and wisdom, not cooperation. Any extrapolation of the motives of the Elder who set this up should be viewed here skeptically- if the Sect as a whole had some kind of overreaching moral beliefs they should be less ambiguous. It's likely different Elders will test for different things.
1: No? Zhou said nothing about making alliances in the second test to pool their tokens to pass and it's possible he expected savvy outside-the-box thinkers to pick up on that.
2: Yes so? She cut the slackers and people who didn't or couldn't make an effort. And why wouldn't she tell us not to? Unless we had excellent character judgement then it's possible people we shared it with may be overcome with greed and attack us for it.
Personal priorities, I think, especially the egg over the technique(since we have Argent Mirror to learn for now, we don't need to rush for another tech immediately). Won't be awake long enough to plan out though.
Just remember to leave the technique search if we choose it with enough leeway to actually get a vote over 5 items on what we get!
