Are turns going away? A reading of yrsillar's quote on the matter implies they stick around, they just won't be broken down to the level of detail that Erebeal gave. I don't see it saying turns disappear no matter how I turn it over.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Okay, fine. I give up.
You're right.
The endless night, that broken, warped moon,
hiding the human village,
and putting hats on the stone statues; [5]
all of it was
Now, get outta my way!
Touhou reference joke fyi
Hmm. Dissonance is something we've had for basically forever that does use Presence for Penetration, though it was historically quite bad at it. Weirdly, there's only a 5 point difference between it and Hoarfrost Caress now. It's a bit weird how FSS just gives this huge (15 point) Penetration buff to music attacks as a passive? Eh.
I mostly agree with this. Seeing reactions, and looking back on it myself, it's pretty clear that I overdesigned somewhat again. Similarly one to one conversions might need some adjusting.
I have tomorrow blocked out for system design and storyboarding expansion, so perhaps once I'm done.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
A) No, once a Foundation is set, it's not coming unset without some serious shenanigans.
B) No, there's a hard limit in how long you can get benefits from a better foundation. Meizhen's benchmark of "Have eight Arts mastered to your limit, 60 Qi, and 25 or so Meridians" is a pretty solid statement for the Green Breakthrough, since it's coming from a cultivation maniac from an ancient Ducal House. We overshot that considerably and only got some marginal benefits for the extras.
Thanks @BungieONI
The idea I'm going for is to
A. Make stats and skills important again
B. Make it so that I can throw out simplified statblocks that allow for quick and intuitive understanding of where you stand at baseline against opponents.
C. Make sure there are still enough indicators of incremental growth to maintain interest in turn to turn cultivation
It seems that I still have some pruning to do to reach that though
overdesigning is another bad habit of mine.
Well, since you're inviting criticism...
I think a massive, massive issue here is you're trying to keep the existing character sheet. This makes the system far far more complex than it needs to be for such a simple resolution. There are about twice as many stats as there should be for a system of this nature, and more importantly about twice as many techniques, each of which requires its own bonus or effect. Yeah, some will boil down to +3 or +5 or +10, but there are too many of these bonuses to track without assistance. That two or more stats composite to form every usable stat only adds to this complexity problem. The double derived stat into another stat with a name also introduces more complexity because any fight requires knowing and understanding 24 different stats and derived stats.
This wouldn't be a problem if the system was entirely behind the hood and we, the players, never ever saw the numbers, but it's not, because you expect people like myself and Erebeal to crunch the new system. That's an explicit objective you've put forward. It's possible to go narrative enough that it can't really be crunched, refer to PrimalShadow's suggestion. But given that you currently intend us to crunch it, the system right now is complex enough that in order to understand it you need to be one of those experts willing to keep a spreadsheet of every single bonus.
I would suggest that you need to take a close look at the character sheets you've tried to preserve and cut them down by about half. Halve the number of stats and skills eliminating derived stats entirely in the process, halve the number of techniques, halve or more the item effects, maybe even boil as many arts as possible down to one single technique that can be applied in many different ways. FSA would be an ideal example of a single technique (shoot a lightning arrow) that can be applied in half a dozen ways, or FZ, or even AC - other arts like most music or AE might be reducible to two techs. This way you can set a single quality level for the art as a whole, that you can level up as the art is leveled, and neither we nor you have to worry about tracking more than a handful of bonuses (8-10 arts only), rather, the tracking will be in applications which any reader can easily understand. Arts already develop this way so it's not much change to the status quo.
By cutting what needs to be tracked in about half, you give your readers room to understand the new comparative system, which looks pretty difficult even if we only need to look at our own character sheet. And I'm saying that as a resident spreadsheet junkie.
A bonus in this is you leave yourself room to grow the complexity as the second quest progresses. That complexity will grow is almost inevitable as new arts, techniques, equipment, characters, cultivation stages, and so on are introduced. Right now if you base the system on existing character sheets, it's about at the maximum level of complexity it can stand, and introducing more will exceed that and make it very difficult to follow.
Another bonus is it mitigates a problem that could emerge as this quest progresses on this system, which is that while advanced characters (ducal clan members and other high nobility like Meizhen and Han Jian) have a very wide skill level right now, they only progress about as fast as the geniuses do. So right now they have a large spread in good stats, but no one will have time to continue to train a large spread of good stats. That means as cultivators progress into Cyan or so, everyone has specialized into their best stat at S or SS+ and no one has time to train up generally. The effect is that rather than battles getting more and more drawn out and tactical, instead they become more and more like "rocket tag" as cultivation increases. The fewer stats or skills you have, the easier it is to build a wider spread of defenses and leave fewer true holes, so the more this effect is mitigated. Obviously there's a balance to be found because every cultivator should have some sort of weakness, and in addition the rocket tag effect can't be mitigated entirely, but reducing the stat sheet gives you more control.
I do like the comparative system a lot, it seems like it gives a lot of tactical play - I was just discussing on Discord how in order to oppose a stat disadvantage you have to come up with ways the opponent's advantaged stats don't apply, like techniques like the substitute shield or using stealth - and it also makes intelligence massively important both because typical movesets (or rather, statsets) can be countered and surprises or preparation are super-important.
But again, my main critique is you've left too many complex artifacts of the old system and old character sheet and they will get in the way very quickly.
e: Couple other comments related to reworking character sheets:
- Small incidental bonuses need to go away, especially if they're buried somewhere like a spirit companion's bonus or a breakthrough bonus or an item buff. Either standardize them to be more meaningful or just cut them and fold the bonus into something else like, say, an art insight or progress on something or other larger bonuses.
- Likewise, by smoothing out arts into single techniques or reducing them to two key techniques, small bonuses from arts also go away. If the art has a passive it should actually do something if the passive is a big deal or maybe just add utility to the techs or to the character if it's not.
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This, as well as the Wits thing mentioned previously. Unless everyone else's stats are also 1:1, our stats should reflect our narrative capabilities in the new system, ie build the character sheet so we can do what we are supposed to be able to do.
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On the note of "we have too many skills", here's all I think we really need:
And I'm not sure about Larceny. Also all our incidental weapon masteries like Polearms, Unarmed, and Projection could probably just be shuffled off into a misc area where they can be ignored since we don't actually use them.
Social, I feel, is best dealt with narratively. Knowledge is definitely best dealt with narratively - and as far as I can tell it basically has been already.
- Formations
- Larceny
- Perceptiveness
- Stealth
- Dance
- Music
- Archery
- Heavy Polearms
- Projection
- Throwing Knives
- Unarmed
- Dodge
- Fortitude
- Fade
- Resilience
Social, I feel, is best dealt with narratively. Knowledge is definitely best dealt with narratively - and as far as I can tell it basically has been already.
Another question that we don't have much info on but needs to be asked is what are Way bonuses supposed to be doing? Looking at the breakdown in the fight, it looks like a combination of Breakthrough and Domain modifiers. A catchall for the permanent bonuses that aren't reliant on Art equip states. But is this supposed to be a small cumulative bonus over time that aids in certain tactics, or a narratively compelling bonus which reflects and compels primary strategies and competencies?
Briefly, I'll relitigate Ling Qi's Water breakthrough again by saying it doesn't make sense, since she doesn't deploy Water in a meaningfully defensive fashion(with the exception of this bonus, which would be circular reasoning if counted) and never really has. Her mists are one technique from a single Art which is primarily Darkness, her primary defensive art was historically Darkness(later Wood), and the two Arts form(ed) a defensive combo on the basis of misdirection and stealth which thematically shares stronger associations with Darkness than Water in Ling Qi's cultivation.
With that out of the way, if we look at the Way bonuses, Meizhen seemed to be getting 3 points to hitting with her counterattacks and a whopping 10 points on her fear attack. Ling Qi got 5 points to initiative, which tracks to her 2nd and 3rd realm Wind breakthroughs, and 3 points to Avoid, which tracks to the 3rd realm Water breakthrough(Spring's End Aria was activated on the first turn). Interestingly, Ling Qi's +darkness attack and +darkness dispel resist breakthrough bonuses don't seem to be in play? Which is kind of weird. Did Darkness get rolled together with Water and Ling Qi simply always has a +3 to Avoid regardless of tech usage? Does she have a stealth bonus now? What's going on there?
There's also the question of how Way bonuses are supposed to balance with art-specific Insights; FVM's anti-dispel bonus to dark and water arts(Why water? We barely have non-dark water arts, this is kind of strange. Why elements at all instead of Lung meridians?) was 3 times as strong as the anti-dark dispel breakthrough bonus under the old system, but tied to a specific art that must remain equipped for the effects to be felt. Makes narrative rewards somewhat fragile and affects comparative advantage of Art upgrade/replacement because we've "invested" one of a kind bonus upgrades into them.
Anyway, 3 point bumps in capability are pretty minor, to the point that they're of questionable purpose. For instance, FZ and AS give a combined 4 to initiative in the log. Now, we have a 5 to initiative from Way, but that's compounded breakthrough effects(iirc?). If we'd only had the 3rd realm portion, it would be outweighed by a couple of random trickles of capability from 3rd string Arts. Realistically, they're simply not relevant augments to Ling Qi's capabilities.
Briefly, I'll relitigate Ling Qi's Water breakthrough again by saying it doesn't make sense, since she doesn't deploy Water in a meaningfully defensive fashion(with the exception of this bonus, which would be circular reasoning if counted) and never really has. Her mists are one technique from a single Art which is primarily Darkness, her primary defensive art was historically Darkness(later Wood), and the two Arts form(ed) a defensive combo on the basis of misdirection and stealth which thematically shares stronger associations with Darkness than Water in Ling Qi's cultivation.
With that out of the way, if we look at the Way bonuses, Meizhen seemed to be getting 3 points to hitting with her counterattacks and a whopping 10 points on her fear attack. Ling Qi got 5 points to initiative, which tracks to her 2nd and 3rd realm Wind breakthroughs, and 3 points to Avoid, which tracks to the 3rd realm Water breakthrough(Spring's End Aria was activated on the first turn). Interestingly, Ling Qi's +darkness attack and +darkness dispel resist breakthrough bonuses don't seem to be in play? Which is kind of weird. Did Darkness get rolled together with Water and Ling Qi simply always has a +3 to Avoid regardless of tech usage? Does she have a stealth bonus now? What's going on there?
There's also the question of how Way bonuses are supposed to balance with art-specific Insights; FVM's anti-dispel bonus to dark and water arts(Why water? We barely have non-dark water arts, this is kind of strange. Why elements at all instead of Lung meridians?) was 3 times as strong as the anti-dark dispel breakthrough bonus under the old system, but tied to a specific art that must remain equipped for the effects to be felt. Makes narrative rewards somewhat fragile and affects comparative advantage of Art upgrade/replacement because we've "invested" one of a kind bonus upgrades into them.
Anyway, 3 point bumps in capability are pretty minor, to the point that they're of questionable purpose. For instance, FZ and AS give a combined 4 to initiative in the log. Now, we have a 5 to initiative from Way, but that's compounded breakthrough effects(iirc?). If we'd only had the 3rd realm portion, it would be outweighed by a couple of random trickles of capability from 3rd string Arts. Realistically, they're simply not relevant augments to Ling Qi's capabilities.
Yeah. Just put it down as "sneaking stuff", which for us includes larceny.
For someone with a more proper upbringing, it might not include larceny, but that's the kind of distinction that can be handled narratively anyway.
I'm hesitant to strip the character sheet of many skills Ling Qi isn't versed in. They should be there or not according to their relevance to the setting, not Ling Qi's proficiency in them. Or rather, her lack of proficiency in a skill is just as relevant as her strength. Bureaucracy, Politics, etc are things she'll confront, and because she's not good at them, it's good to have a record of that. Some of the knowledge skills have got kind of... weird given our inputs. But part of that has been Ling Qi learning and studying things in the background where we simply haven't been afforded the chance to see it. This is another reason that a benchmark is nice to have, because we as players, otherwise, don't only not know the things she knows, but don't have any clue how much knowing she's got up to doing.
Ideally a new player would be able to drop in, glance at the character sheet, and know roughly what Ling Qi can do without having had to read the entire saga of Ling Qi first. It's not how I do, but many others do, and accessibility should be a high priority for any QM. I have no issue with yrsillar tweaking some of our runaway knowledge skills either, to whatever extent there are any.
I'm open to other tweaks to. Like Streetwise getting folded under Subterfuge, or Socialize being eaten by Politics or maybe Persuasion, or Animal Ken and Ride being combined or both axed completely. As far as the skill list goes, the most important question is probably which distinctions in capability @yrsillar wants to maintain as meaningful.
Ideally a new player would be able to drop in, glance at the character sheet, and know roughly what Ling Qi can do without having had to read the entire saga of Ling Qi first. It's not how I do, but many others do, and accessibility should be a high priority for any QM. I have no issue with yrsillar tweaking some of our runaway knowledge skills either, to whatever extent there are any.
I'm open to other tweaks to. Like Streetwise getting folded under Subterfuge, or Socialize being eaten by Politics or maybe Persuasion, or Animal Ken and Ride being combined or both axed completely. As far as the skill list goes, the most important question is probably which distinctions in capability @yrsillar wants to maintain as meaningful.
To elaborate a little on the game design perspective:
Skills should be as detailed, or not, as the game's focus, as a simulationist approach isn't a very useful utilization of player and GM energy.
Combat is a major focus, so naturally each combat skill is 'shallow' because they're used and differenitated a lot. We have:
-To Physically Hit
-To Physically Damage
-To Physically Avoid
-To Physically Resist
-To Spiritually Hit
-To Spiritually Damage
-To Spiritually Avoid
-To Spiritually Resist
The inputs can vary, but all are derived from Base Stat + Skill + Equipment + Art Effects. No biggie, its all derived stats, and arts are going to swap which goes where in.
A more optimal build would lean more things on the same stat, which works fine until enemies use an art which force a different resolution method and get your ass kicked.
Non-combat skills meanwhile, should look at the key point: "does the character use it enough that subsections matter". If the answer is no it probably should be folded in under a specialization category.
So next, Skillz we have, and applying max reductionist(please apply common sense and decompress this in actual use, this is purely for making a point):
-Academics + Craft + Occult + Formations + Medicine + War -> Lore 4 - Specialties: Security Formations 2, Construct Formations 1, Spirits 2
Yes, Medicine and Craft effectively vanished without new specialties representing them. Ling Qi never used them and her prior minor proficiency isn't meaningfully distinct from a knowledge skill anymore that being able to make instant noodles without setting it on fire should be a tracked skill in a modern adult.
Likewise, her Formations skill is pretty much just about how to make security and constructs and only that part is maintained distinct from her general "I know things" skill. Her skill at strategy is largely irrelevant for now. Maybe fork it off as a specialty if she actually invests later
-Bureaucracy + Politics + Socialize -> Politics
Not meaningfully distinct in the setting, paperwork IS politics, and vice versa, you can't play one without the other. Just fuse them together, someone especially good at paperwork might have a specialty for it.
-Investigation + Larceny + Stealth + Subterfuge + Streetwise -> Fused into Intrigue 5 - Specialties: Concealment 1, Infiltration 2, Streets 1
Not much to say here, except Ling Qi hadn't used her Sleight of Hand specialty in ever and her broader skill should have subsumed that specialty by now.
-Athletics + Ride -> Athletics - Specialties: Ride Zhengui
-Survival + Animal Ken -> Survival - Specialties: Spirit Beasts
-Empathy -> Empathy
Normally folded into a social bloc, but theres enough politics that your level of personal empathy is distinct
-Expression -> Expression
This only stays distinct because its a major character focus, for others it'd probably be just a specialization for their social block skill
-Intimidation + Persuasion + Socialize -> Diplomacy
These are literally "Diplomacy with Charisma" and "Diplomacy with Manipulation", why keep them distinct?
Socialize goes in since its always used together anyways.
Skills should be as detailed, or not, as the game's focus, as a simulationist approach isn't a very useful utilization of player and GM energy.
Combat is a major focus, so naturally each combat skill is 'shallow' because they're used and differenitated a lot. We have:
-To Physically Hit
-To Physically Damage
-To Physically Avoid
-To Physically Resist
-To Spiritually Hit
-To Spiritually Damage
-To Spiritually Avoid
-To Spiritually Resist
The inputs can vary, but all are derived from Base Stat + Skill + Equipment + Art Effects. No biggie, its all derived stats, and arts are going to swap which goes where in.
A more optimal build would lean more things on the same stat, which works fine until enemies use an art which force a different resolution method and get your ass kicked.
Non-combat skills meanwhile, should look at the key point: "does the character use it enough that subsections matter". If the answer is no it probably should be folded in under a specialization category.
So next, Skillz we have, and applying max reductionist(please apply common sense and decompress this in actual use, this is purely for making a point):
-Academics + Craft + Occult + Formations + Medicine + War -> Lore 4 - Specialties: Security Formations 2, Construct Formations 1, Spirits 2
Yes, Medicine and Craft effectively vanished without new specialties representing them. Ling Qi never used them and her prior minor proficiency isn't meaningfully distinct from a knowledge skill anymore that being able to make instant noodles without setting it on fire should be a tracked skill in a modern adult.
Likewise, her Formations skill is pretty much just about how to make security and constructs and only that part is maintained distinct from her general "I know things" skill. Her skill at strategy is largely irrelevant for now. Maybe fork it off as a specialty if she actually invests later
-Bureaucracy + Politics + Socialize -> Politics
Not meaningfully distinct in the setting, paperwork IS politics, and vice versa, you can't play one without the other. Just fuse them together, someone especially good at paperwork might have a specialty for it.
-Investigation + Larceny + Stealth + Subterfuge + Streetwise -> Fused into Intrigue 5 - Specialties: Concealment 1, Infiltration 2, Streets 1
Not much to say here, except Ling Qi hadn't used her Sleight of Hand specialty in ever and her broader skill should have subsumed that specialty by now.
-Athletics + Ride -> Athletics - Specialties: Ride Zhengui
-Survival + Animal Ken -> Survival - Specialties: Spirit Beasts
-Empathy -> Empathy
Normally folded into a social bloc, but theres enough politics that your level of personal empathy is distinct
-Expression -> Expression
This only stays distinct because its a major character focus, for others it'd probably be just a specialization for their social block skill
-Intimidation + Persuasion + Socialize -> Diplomacy
These are literally "Diplomacy with Charisma" and "Diplomacy with Manipulation", why keep them distinct?
Socialize goes in since its always used together anyways.
I like a lot of those simplifications, but I'd just remove this entirely.
Ride is not important to us. Athletics is the most pointless skill here. We're a cultivator. Our athletic capability is "bronze 1" + whatever our movement arts give us.
Also, I think that Formations should probably stay as its own skill.
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I put Zhengui in because it amused me.
As for merging formations, it has more todo with Academics than Formations.
Past a certain point, the skill no longer adds much because you know everything you can possibly know.
Formation is Applied Knowledge. Not important to differentiate for us. Important for production specialists
But it scales great
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I'm going to go through a copy+paste of the skill list and make mutually exclusive notes and suggestions because I am both opinionated and too lazy to form coherent positions.
That got weird and meta and incoherent-er than I intended. In my defense, my foot is awfully itchy.
Mental Skills
Academics:
It's a nice catchall skill going by its name, but what does it actually cover that medicine, politics, and occult don't? History? That seems politics-y Cultivation theory? We've never had an academics check to see how much we learned about something, to my knowledge. If this is only for taking boring in-story tests, it's kind of eh.
Bureaucracy:
An important skill in the setting. Others have made good points about it being part of politics in the system, but if you want to make distinctions between knowing and means of doing, that's fine.
Craft:
Makes sense as a skill, but it's never been clear how it actually relates to the quality of made stuff.
Investigation:
An important skill! Maybe. Depends on how abstract or auto-pilot Ling Qi's detectiving is. Does this cover tracking down paperwork malfeasance? Does Bureaucracy do anything?
Formations:
Definitely distinct enough for its own skill, but the way it's handled needs work. There's lots of things someone with a decent grounding should be able to just do with formations, and the highly formulaic Art-like handling for even the least of the most irrelevant formations makes it worthless to invest time in. Needs to be viable as a relatively ad hoc tool in some circumstances other than just breaking formations, alongside the more established formations. This is kind of happened, like how Ling Qi installed totally generic defensive wards around her mother's house that aren't reflected in known formations at all. That's more like how the skill needs to be handled to make it usable. Not without significant studying though! Just less micromanaging.
Medicine:
Makes sense as a skill, not that we've ever done anything with it. Ling Qi needs to stop auto-identifying every random drug she stumbles across when she barely has the know-how of a a conscript army medic, if that. It's currently meaningless and probably too-low considering what you'd expect her to have picked up just via osmosis. But it's not like the Sect actually did proper schooling. Which is dumb, but I guess it's 'meant' for nobles who already have that kind of thing taught before they show up.
Occult:
A bit of an odd skill, honestly. It seems like a mix between Politics, Socialize, and Empathy, but for spirits specifically? Not clear if it governs generalized 'spellcraft' type things. Strong lack of mysterious rituals. Probably poorly named. Seemingly useful, but not obviously used regularly. Over-abundance of humanized spirits maybe made it not come up?
Politics:
Is this doing or knowing? How does it affect each? Does it cover history or just contemporary events? Do we use this when at a dinner party? Do we use this when negotiating a trade deal? Unclear what this actually does for us and what circumstances we employ it.
Physical Skills
Athletics:
Agreed with others that this seems redundant with basic physical cultivation, and probably physical attributes. Skill here would probably give a misleading impression of athletic capability compared to other cultivators due to Ling Qi's inferior physical stats. Not clear that this stat ever actually made Ling Qi "do athletics" better, outside a couple early quest mountain climbs.
Larceny:
I like larceny! I like it for Ling Qi's character! She hasn't been able to apply it, and I don't see how she'll be able to moving forwards to keep it relevant! This is a problem with the system in the context of the story. If a skill can't actually be leveraged in the story's focus, then it's a problem, especially when the character concept herself is designed in part around the skill. Folding into stealth, or folding stealth into it, might be best. Possible Wits/Dex conflicts? bah. Nicking things feels like it's distinct enough it should be its own thing, but again never actually doing it.
Ride:
Never really come up, and highly unlikely to ever come up for anyone who isn't focused around it. Seems redundant with Animal Ken.
Stealth:
Stealth is cool and definitely a distinct skillset.
Survival:
Is this a relevant cultivator skill? Cultivators barely eat, sleep, or drink, and most of them have storage devices on their person. Survival in harsh climes is based on raw cultivation, how well their Way/Arts/Beasts match the environment, and whether they have relevant treasures or talismans for braving the environment. Successful physical navigation or endurance of an environment are 1st more of a mental skill, and 2nd dependent on a huge number of essentially preparatory build characteristics that can't be modified in the field, so does the skill do anything useful? If it's wayfinding and awareness of natural dangers, it's semi-poorly named and more of a mental skill.
Social Skills
Animal Ken:
For cultivators, it seems like there's a huge amount of overlap with Occult. To the point I question the point of having this skill at all. Some redundancy with Survival possible too.
Empathy:
Fits Ling Qi's character very well, but it's a bit of an odd duck with other social skills. She's honestly unreasonable good at it. Better than her rank in it justifies by far. Protagonist powers. This seems like primarily an info-digging skill for digging info from people they might not want to share, or for seeing through misrepresentations.
Expression:
I take it this's been split? 's probably fine.
Intimidation:
Being scary at people is a legit social strat and Presence is a social stat and all.
Persuasion:
Is this the skill for negotiating a trade deal? One common problem with the social skils has been lack of opportunity to leverage them. Unclear to what extent this was dice aversion. Talking people into things is a useful ability not everyone's good at, seems like a fine skill.
Socialize:
What is this skill doing that Politics, Empathy, and Persuasion doesn't do? Also, what does Socialize accomplish for someone and what are the consequences of failure? If a skill's proficiency doesn't affect anything of material relevance to a person in the culture, then its addition is pointless. Ling Qi needs to either see rewards from utilizing Socialize, or else experience tangible consequences to her lackluster capabilities.
Streetwise:
Could get folded into subterfuge and/or politics or something. The streetwise/subterfuge/politics split has been kinda meh on Ling Qi's capabilities in ways that don't quite seem like they make sense. Outer-sect thunderdome politics is totally streetwise.
Subterfuge:
Sort of a bluff skill? But only in a narrow context? There's empathy, intimidation, persuasion, but no overt lying stat. Is this a dishonest persuasion/socialize? Only for impersonating people? Does it help undermine social groups? Arbitrary skill separations in some ways. are weird and flimsy and if this got merged with st
War:
Supposedly about organizing troops on more of a strategic level. Currently sort of irrelevant. Maybe less so later? Unclear given we're going to be part of an actual commander's forces to what degree this skill will see use in even the next decade. Makes sense for setting for it to exist since logistics and whatnot are kiiiind of important and not just any idiot without training can organize an army.
Academics:
It's a nice catchall skill going by its name, but what does it actually cover that medicine, politics, and occult don't? History? That seems politics-y Cultivation theory? We've never had an academics check to see how much we learned about something, to my knowledge. If this is only for taking boring in-story tests, it's kind of eh.
Bureaucracy:
An important skill in the setting. Others have made good points about it being part of politics in the system, but if you want to make distinctions between knowing and means of doing, that's fine.
Craft:
Makes sense as a skill, but it's never been clear how it actually relates to the quality of made stuff.
Investigation:
An important skill! Maybe. Depends on how abstract or auto-pilot Ling Qi's detectiving is. Does this cover tracking down paperwork malfeasance? Does Bureaucracy do anything?
Formations:
Definitely distinct enough for its own skill, but the way it's handled needs work. There's lots of things someone with a decent grounding should be able to just do with formations, and the highly formulaic Art-like handling for even the least of the most irrelevant formations makes it worthless to invest time in. Needs to be viable as a relatively ad hoc tool in some circumstances other than just breaking formations, alongside the more established formations. This is kind of happened, like how Ling Qi installed totally generic defensive wards around her mother's house that aren't reflected in known formations at all. That's more like how the skill needs to be handled to make it usable. Not without significant studying though! Just less micromanaging.
Medicine:
Makes sense as a skill, not that we've ever done anything with it. Ling Qi needs to stop auto-identifying every random drug she stumbles across when she barely has the know-how of a a conscript army medic, if that. It's currently meaningless and probably too-low considering what you'd expect her to have picked up just via osmosis. But it's not like the Sect actually did proper schooling. Which is dumb, but I guess it's 'meant' for nobles who already have that kind of thing taught before they show up.
Occult:
A bit of an odd skill, honestly. It seems like a mix between Politics, Socialize, and Empathy, but for spirits specifically? Not clear if it governs generalized 'spellcraft' type things. Strong lack of mysterious rituals. Probably poorly named. Seemingly useful, but not obviously used regularly. Over-abundance of humanized spirits maybe made it not come up?
Politics:
Is this doing or knowing? How does it affect each? Does it cover history or just contemporary events? Do we use this when at a dinner party? Do we use this when negotiating a trade deal? Unclear what this actually does for us and what circumstances we employ it.
Physical Skills
Athletics:
Agreed with others that this seems redundant with basic physical cultivation, and probably physical attributes. Skill here would probably give a misleading impression of athletic capability compared to other cultivators due to Ling Qi's inferior physical stats. Not clear that this stat ever actually made Ling Qi "do athletics" better, outside a couple early quest mountain climbs.
Larceny:
I like larceny! I like it for Ling Qi's character! She hasn't been able to apply it, and I don't see how she'll be able to moving forwards to keep it relevant! This is a problem with the system in the context of the story. If a skill can't actually be leveraged in the story's focus, then it's a problem, especially when the character concept herself is designed in part around the skill. Folding into stealth, or folding stealth into it, might be best. Possible Wits/Dex conflicts? bah. Nicking things feels like it's distinct enough it should be its own thing, but again never actually doing it.
Ride:
Never really come up, and highly unlikely to ever come up for anyone who isn't focused around it. Seems redundant with Animal Ken.
Stealth:
Stealth is cool and definitely a distinct skillset.
Survival:
Is this a relevant cultivator skill? Cultivators barely eat, sleep, or drink, and most of them have storage devices on their person. Survival in harsh climes is based on raw cultivation, how well their Way/Arts/Beasts match the environment, and whether they have relevant treasures or talismans for braving the environment. Successful physical navigation or endurance of an environment are 1st more of a mental skill, and 2nd dependent on a huge number of essentially preparatory build characteristics that can't be modified in the field, so does the skill do anything useful? If it's wayfinding and awareness of natural dangers, it's semi-poorly named and more of a mental skill.
Social Skills
Animal Ken:
For cultivators, it seems like there's a huge amount of overlap with Occult. To the point I question the point of having this skill at all. Some redundancy with Survival possible too.
Empathy:
Fits Ling Qi's character very well, but it's a bit of an odd duck with other social skills. She's honestly unreasonable good at it. Better than her rank in it justifies by far. Protagonist powers. This seems like primarily an info-digging skill for digging info from people they might not want to share, or for seeing through misrepresentations.
Expression:
I take it this's been split? 's probably fine.
Intimidation:
Being scary at people is a legit social strat and Presence is a social stat and all.
Persuasion:
Is this the skill for negotiating a trade deal? One common problem with the social skils has been lack of opportunity to leverage them. Unclear to what extent this was dice aversion. Talking people into things is a useful ability not everyone's good at, seems like a fine skill.
Socialize:
What is this skill doing that Politics, Empathy, and Persuasion doesn't do? Also, what does Socialize accomplish for someone and what are the consequences of failure? If a skill's proficiency doesn't affect anything of material relevance to a person in the culture, then its addition is pointless. Ling Qi needs to either see rewards from utilizing Socialize, or else experience tangible consequences to her lackluster capabilities.
Streetwise:
Could get folded into subterfuge and/or politics or something. The streetwise/subterfuge/politics split has been kinda meh on Ling Qi's capabilities in ways that don't quite seem like they make sense. Outer-sect thunderdome politics is totally streetwise.
Subterfuge:
Sort of a bluff skill? But only in a narrow context? There's empathy, intimidation, persuasion, but no overt lying stat. Is this a dishonest persuasion/socialize? Only for impersonating people? Does it help undermine social groups? Arbitrary skill separations in some ways. are weird and flimsy and if this got merged with st
War:
Supposedly about organizing troops on more of a strategic level. Currently sort of irrelevant. Maybe less so later? Unclear given we're going to be part of an actual commander's forces to what degree this skill will see use in even the next decade. Makes sense for setting for it to exist since logistics and whatnot are kiiiind of important and not just any idiot without training can organize an army.
That got weird and meta and incoherent-er than I intended. In my defense, my foot is awfully itchy.
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A fortuitous day
A Fortuitous Day
Peace has returned to the Argent Sect.
Well, peace of a sort, I suppose. As peaceful as such a place as this could be. Regardless.
The...excitement of the past week has finally passed, like one of the Cloud Rider's storms, but less physically destructive and more of a...metaphorical upheaval. Yes, that should sum things up nicely. A political hurricane had struck, and as ever, chaos begets opportunity. I could hardly speak to my fellows and potential rivals as to their own reactions to how the performances of our newest Sect Brothers and Sisters affected their plans, but that did not preclude me from making some guesses. The storm had passed, and as one who had weathered it's passing the time had come to pick the strewn about wreckage for treasures that had been revealed in the aftermath.
But that could come later.
I had worked hard, and as there was an enforced week-long armistice in the wake of the qualification tournament, why not take the opportunity to rest, relax, and enjoy the fruits of my labor with some fine drink, and even finer conversation?
Though I will grant that this teahouse in the village at the feet of the Sect was not my preferred haunt, at least the booth I had chosen to claim was a passably comfortable one. Private too. Just the way I, Zhiqiang, liked it. Still, while I waited for my erstwhile host to arrive, I took the opportunity to order for them as well. Their preferred blend, unless I missed my mark.
A sensation like static washed over me, probing waves of qi that carried information to and back to it's source. Another form of communication, which matched up with his known abilities. An expected skill for someone who wished to boldly advertise the role he wished to fulfill in life. Well, far be it from me to judge. The youth had his ambitions well in hand, and, well.
"A good afternoon to you, Junior Brother." I greeted from my seat, opposite his favored one.
"Who are you." It was not a question, but an accusation. Of what? Well, something he was likely to be right about. Alas! I am being suspected off the bat. Well, I simply retrieve a familiar white jade slip from my voluminous sleeves and place it upon the formation-carved table between us. The bespectacled youth merely glared at me, the finely crafted scholar's hat upon his head placed at an oblique angle seeming to lightly glow with formation characters.
How amusing! I nearly felt the clash of Qi through Brother Wind's wards!
"There's no need to be rude," I inclined my head forward, a polite smile on my face, "Everything you wish to know is on that Jade Slip right in front of you."
With a wary gaze the Junior Brother snatches the item up, as if it would burn him! How foolish!
"Your name is...Zhiqiang?" His eyes narrow, "This is...a business card?"
I beam, "Exactly!" My hands cup together in as deep a bow as allowed by the table between us, "Senior Brother Zhiqiang, at your service!" The younger Immortal merely frowns at my introduction, the white jade slip passing by the eye-like embroidery worked into the edges of his sleeves, a peerlessly crafted Cai Robe, if the stories told on the Outer Mountain held true, "It is a pleasure to meet you, Junior Brother!"
The boy finally clasps his own hands together, "Junior Brother Fu Xiang greets Senior Brother." He greets me in turn, not bothering to bow. How incredibly rude of him! Well, it is at this time that the waitress arrives with our orders, both cups of tea wafting steam, releasing a mixture of pleasant aromas into the air.
"I hope you do not mind that I ordered for us both," The waitress had been most thoughtful when I asked for what tea would best accompany the Junior Brother's preferred blend. I had been to the establishment but once, and simply did not possess the frame of reference necessary to order optimally myself, "You have excellent taste, Junior Brother." I take in a deep breath, savoring the aromas of both drinks for all their worth, "I do not normally enjoy tea like this, you see. But I am pleased to have made this exception." I hold out the cup towards him.
"Congratulations on..." I pause here, stroking my poorly grown fu man chu, "Rank eight hundred and sixty, was it?" I raised an eyebrow, accentuating the question, eliciting a deeper frown from the younger man for some reason. I simply held out the cup though, my eyebrow remaining in place as I awaited an answer. It was possible I had gotten the ranking mixed up, given that so much had gone into my arrangements and negotiations with the Wen scion after completing my end of the bargain. But I doubted it.
Fu Xiang nodded, his jaw visibly clenching as he did so, and with a jovial smile I drank deeply from the cup, it's heady aroma tickling my sinuses, the tang of citrus providing a most wondrous contrast to the bitterness of the tea leaves themselves as the heat of the aromatic beverage itself relaxed a tension in the back of my head that I had failed to notice building up over the course of this most stressful week. I shut my eyes, luxuriating in the spreading warmth even now pooling within my belly, spreading throughout my body and with it's passage banishing the weariness dwelling within all that it touched. Then, the caffeine struck, bringing my mind back to wakefulness, sharp as my favored dagger.
"What a remarkable blend," I placed the cup back down, a wide smile on my face, "My compliments to the hostess," I turned towards the waitress who had made the recommendation and gave her my most charming wink, "And to you as well, Junior Brother Fu. Your taste is as excellent as I would expect."
My Junior Brother, most regrettably, had yet to touch his excellent drink. The steam of it still wafting in the air, even as it began to chill to room temperature. Briefly, I considered asking if he would not be drinking. But that would be a terrible faux pas. Regretfully, I would have to let such a fine blend go to waste.
Well, that was hardly my own fault.
"Senior Brother," Fu Xiang begins, his hands clenching and unclenching, "For what purpose do I owe the honor of your visit?"
I wave dismissively at the wholly unwarranted suspicion, "Is it not enough that a Senior Brother go express his greetings towards his newest Junior Brothers and Sisters?"
"There were many who made it into the Inner Sect at the same time as I, Senior Brother. Have you gone to offer them your greetings as well?"
My lip twitches, "You mean you don't know?" Behind those glasses I see his eyes narrow ever so slightly, that composure of his breaking ever so slightly, "Why, what have you been doing in the weeks leading up to the tournament, Junior Brother?"
"I have been preoccupied, as you may have guessed." The younger man says, his voice utterly even, "As a competitor for the production track, it was necessary for me to finish the preparations for my final project, as would be the common assumption."
My eyes widen as I take another sip from the rapidly cooling tea before me, a sense of urgency to my actions as I try to enjoy the beverage before the temperature is ruined, "I see!" I continue, placing the cup down with a soft clink, "I had been under the impression you were spending your time looking over Junior Brother Yan!" I laugh once again, pawing at my sparse facial hair, "I apologize for my jumping to a hasty, and ultimately mistaken, conclusion Junior Brother! I should have known that the likes of you would be nothing but diligent and honest in your efforts! Just as you were in the service of Junior Sister Cai!"
The boy twitches, and the warmth within my belly grows ever more satisfying.
Two hands clasp together, and the top of that scholar's hat is presented to me as Fu Xiang finally bows his head, "I do not know what this one has done to offend, Senior Brother, but I would like to know what offense I have committed so as to make up for it."
I wave my hand rather magnanimously, "There is no need to bow and scrape, Junior Brother Fu." My other hand continues to paw at my beard, "But to answer your previous question, I have, in fact, been making the rounds of your fellows from this year." In some cases, rather directly. In others? In spirit, at the very least. I would be wary about approaching the Cai and Bai scions, however. They were both too clever. Too driven for me to arrange a meeting with casually.
Moreover, I had no desire to anger the Sun Princess further. Not after the loss of face she had taken in that tournament. In spite of myself, I sigh. How regrettable. Well, that possibility was why I was here, after all.
"What troubles Senior Brother?" The boy before me asks, "Perhaps it is something that I can be of assistance with?" What an excellent Junior Brother Fu Xiang is! A polite child, completely unlike that uncouth delinquent Ji Rong! Ah, if only his talents aligned more closely with my own, rather than merely his mindset!
What a pity. What a waste!
I wave my hand dismissively, "There is nothing you can truly help with," Well. That's a lie, but I would rather lay the groundwork further before attempting to set up a meeting with the Cai Heiress through the boy, if such a thing were even possible to begin with now that she had secured the services of that rather promising Ling Qi, "But the offer is appreciated nonetheless, Junior Brother." I smile politely before taking a third sip of the now cooled tea.
Unexpectedly, it is still quite good!
"This truly is an excellent beverage." My lips smack in enjoyment of the flavor.
Before me, Fu Xiang's eyes narrow further, "Then, if I may be so bold Senior Brother, I once again ask for the significance of your visit today." His hands meet together, steepling as he meets my own gaze unflinchingly. For a moment I am assailed by the full force of countless invisible waves, screeching and tearing through the air, battering at my very self as they seek to delve into my own secrets.
I smile, and call upon a deep-seated bloodlust from days long past, tinged with the strength of my Intent. There is no reason to crush his barely formed Domain. It would be rude to do such a thing to my host, however unwilling he may be.
"I suppose I can repeat myself," I reply airily, "I am Zhiqiang." I once again bow in self-introduction, "I have heard rumors, Junior Brother, that the two of us share very similar interests." My eyes meet his once more, my bloodlust growing more pronounced, and the formations built into the stall flare to life in response to the potential outbreak of violence, "I was hoping that I would not need to be so forward with you, but alas, you seem to be rather poor at taking a hint." I sigh theatrically, glancing at him sidelong as I continue to stroke my beard.
To the boy's credit, he doesn't flinch, even as his skin pales, "And what hint would that be, Senior Brother?" I see an almost imperceptible rustling in those robes of his, regrettable.
"The secrets of the Inner Sect are mine to plunder, naturally." I reel back my intent, reining in the sensation of impending violence, "But I am a businessman first and foremost, Junior Brother." I smile once again, leaning back with a contented sigh, "So long as you do not overreach, I am always happy to lend my assistance towards mutually profitable ventures to an enterprising individual such as yourself." With a conspiratorial wink, I finish off the now cool beverage before me.
Fu Xiang's expression is flat, his eyes radiating an impressive chilliness, "I will...remember that, Senior Brother." His lips twitch into an nigh-invisible frown.
"Now there's no need for that, Junior Brother Fu!" Another laugh, "As I said, this was merely an introduction! Why, I don't view you as competition!" My head shakes in amused negation, "Why, we're comrades! Sect Brothers of shared interests!" My hand begins idly tugging at my faux man chu once more, "Why waste time and resources in a futile struggle, when we can accomplish so much more together!" An arm stretches over towards the newly Third Realm cultivator besides me, and I can see past the anguish, past the humiliation, beneath the emotion lies the cold, calculating ambition with which he had latched on to the Cai Heiress' goals and objectives within the Outer Sect.
All it would take...was one. More. Push.
"Li Suyin was her name, was it not?" I add quietly, "That girl with the blue hair, the one who was a friend of Ling Qi, was she not?" The boy stills, eyes now supremely wary, the gears in his head coming to a complete stop.
"Rather unfair, don't you think?" I continue, almost idly, "To have the assistance of a Cultivator of Sect Sister Bao's stature to assist her. To have the good fortune of having a protector like Ling Qi, thus benefiting from the order of Cai despite never putting any work of her own into it." I paused, the boy before me leaning forward ever so slightly, "Why, she practically stumbled, head over heels, into that spot of hers."
Fu Xiang's eyes narrowed, his brows furrowing in thought and idle frustration.
"Eight Hundred and Sixty, was it?"
The moment stretches on, the boy's mind churning over the possibilities. It passes, and finally, my Junior Brother nods.
"Eight Hundred and Sixty."
I hold out my hand, "I'm sure a Sect Brother of your talents will rise to prominence rather quickly on a more level playing field, don't you think?"
He takes it, "I look forward to working with you, Senior Brother."
I smile once again, my hand dropping a bag of silver onto the table between us with a soft thud and satisfied chuckle.
"My treat."
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I honestly can't tell if this is deliberate or not.
Its almost 5 am here.
Cut me some slack lol
But yeah, its fixed now
Zhiqiang basically knows that there's going to be a clusterfuck hitting the Inner Sect just as big as the one that hit the Outer Sect this past year, given that almost all the most relevant players responsible for it made their way in.
He's already got an in with Sun Liling, and fully expects that he's going to be in her orbit for a little while thanks to his promised training of Ji Rong, so he's incredibly wary of going anywhere near the Cai factions remnants until he's got a natural seeming reason for it.
The stuff with Li Suyin is actually Zhiqiang fishing for an opportunity to be a double dealing bastard, as Fu Xiang is someone who is only capable of acting by proxy, so whomever he signs up with is likely to be in direct opposition to Bao Qingling whom Zhiqiang already considers to be a rival worth keeping an eye on as someone else who has an opportunity to benefit from the fallout of Cai's actions in the Outer Sect last year, and whatever she gets up to this year.
Since Sun Liling is inevitably going to lean on using him to advance whatever plans she, in turn, has that means that being able to rely on Fu Xiang to act as eyes and ears of his own will let him act with a necessary degree of separation to avoid getting everyone involved pissed off at him.
In turn, once Fu Xiang picks up Zhiqiang's connection to Ji Rong and thus Sun Liling, he'll realize the nature of Zhiqiang's scheme and thus-Here's where I begin speculating-try to use Zhiqiang as a source on Sun Liling's movements in order to sell that back to Cai Renxiang and her own faction, thus worming his way back into her good books in spite of Ling Qi's presence potentially undermining his perceived value to the Cai Heir.
It'd be, as Zhiqiang flat out said in the omake, a mutually beneficial partnership for them both as Sect Brothers of shared interests.
In the Inner Sect Information is the most potent weapon of all. And Zhiqiang?
Well.
Arms dealing is rather at it's most profitable when there's a war going on, you know?
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We use Occult as Academics check for all spirits, Culture/Politics/Socialize for human-like spirits, and I think for interacting with more abstract spirits as Diplomacy outright
Tracking, hunting and navigating package.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
Well, for me it sounded as 'we expected and are now disappointed'.