Is Zhiqiang using the characters for Ambition Strong?
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Stubborn more accurately. Ambition fits tho.
Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
...Where else did you think the term "cultivation" came from exactly?
Also, I'm not liking this new system as the spoiler @Erebeal put out. I at least understood the other one, however vaguely, but this one? My eyes glazed over 3-4 sentences in and that was it for me. Hopefully, when this new thread gets put up(Whenever that may be), it'll be understandable for the common, non-number crunching people who follow this thread.
I follow this because it's well-written, it's what I wish Xianxia was actually like, the characters are interesting, and I can't wait to see the Sun/Cai Shenhua get dunked on. Not because of number crunching. So again, hopefully this shit will be understandable for me to follow at a glance while not detracting from the actual story in the next thread. Good luck with the refinement, @yrs. *Fingers crossed*
Making a lot of assumptions there, bro.
White tier cultivators are basically strategic assets. If they do 'get dunked on', it will probably be by the Empire as a whole, and even then only if there is no other choice.
We wouldn't stand much of a chance for a few centuries, if ever.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...Where else did you think the term "cultivation" came from exactly?
Also, I'm not liking this new system as the spoiler @Erebeal put out. I at least understood the other one, however vaguely, but this one? My eyes glazed over 3-4 sentences in and that was it for me. Hopefully, when this new thread gets put up(Whenever that may be), it'll be understandable for the common, non-number crunching people who follow this thread.
I follow this because it's well-written, it's what I wish Xianxia was actually like, the characters are interesting, and I can't wait to see the Sun/Cai Shenhua get dunked on. Not because of number crunching. So again, hopefully this shit will be understandable for me to follow at a glance while not detracting from the actual story in the next thread. Good luck with the refinement, @yrs. *Fingers crossed*
1. It's not generally a turn based system now
2. It's almost the same as how it worked beforehand, except instead of reading LQ rolls 40d10 and has 24 successes and Meizhen rolls 50d10 and has 28 successes, it's instead just LQ has 25 and Meizhen has 30, therefore Meizhen is probably going to win unless wackiness.
The more I've thought about the new system the more I'm down for it. The only things I'm really concerned about are things like how character sheets need to not be transported over at a one to one ratio, I would like to know how much impact we can get out of good planning (is there a way for us to beat someone who is better than us at combat by being smart?), and maybe stats/skills might all need to be bumped down a rank. I think skill consolidation is pretty pointless; the skill list as it stands now is totally fine and doesn't really need to be pared down. I think people are really jumping the gun in their reactions because the previews that we've seen and what we've been told are all kinda contradictory. Once we see the actual mechanics, there might need to be some adjustments made or something, but honestly I doubt it. We should all just wait to see the actual system before making any strong statements about the new system.
Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
*Rolls eyes* Not in a face to face battle, idiota. I mean, their own internal plans get ruined. They'd be alive to help the Empire fight off the barbarians, sure. But their own grasps for power get ruined, whether by us or outside parties.
Dude, I don't fucking care beyond being able to read and understand the basics at a glance(Okay, slightly more than a glance). And what little I saw of the bit that was put out? Yeah, no. Unreadable.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
That turn by turn thing was really misunderstanding how the new system would work, and as such is not representative.
In that case, the worst that can happen to them is a setback.
Shenhua, in particular, has most of a millennia to see her designs through.
The other thing, of course, is that we know nothing about what either of them are planning beyond speculation. It's way to soon to be declaring their 'inevitable failure'.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"I'm going to base my entire opinion on this around a turn by turn description of a fight when the new system isn't turn by turn." This is why I'm saying to wait until Yrsillar actually posts the system before saying it's unreadable. You don't know how the system works, so don't try to critique it. Just wait until we get an official document. I'm also not sure how it's even possible to have understood the last system and not this one but w/e. Just try to not make knee jerk reactions and wait until we get the actual doc/see how Yrsillar is actually going to use it.
I haven't bothered to try and read the mechanics preview, but if hte new mechanics are pretty much like the old, except replacing dice with static values, then I'm not sure it really solves the bloat and incomprehensibility problems.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
The idea that there aren't turns isn't supported. What's the point of initiative without turns? All yrs has said is that he won't go into so much detail.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Initiative decides who hits first, speed decides how often you're hitting. Yrsillar has said that the numbers are for fast comparisons, not for him to crunch out every battle.
Those are unsubstantiated presumptions.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
The impression I get is that the mechanics are still technically round-by-round in the natural assumptions they make, but Yrs will be writing with a lot more fudging. Similar to how non-Ling Qi battles went last tourney, where for example Ji Rong and Han Fang both had round by round style sheets but it wasn't written in exactly that way. The general assumption I have is that whoever wins initiative gets the first priority to do things in the narrative, and that after that both characters get to do roughly the same number of things as time goes on.
The assumption that speed determines attack rate now is entirely ridiculous and unfounded. Speed has always defined tactical movement rate in this quest and there's no reason for that to have changed. There's no stat in this quest that gives you raw extra actions per time (though of course things like flurries shove multiple attacks into a single action).
The whole turn structure has always created some fairly bizarre consequences in the background. In particular, the whole way that shooting an arrow apparently takes the same amount of time as playing a song.
FSS is particularly annoying in this regard, because it had so much of the music-ness stripped out of it for the sake of convenience. We don't have to sing SEA. HC is basically burst - it doesn't have any kind of channel or ramp up or singing time at all.
That's all a bit annoying after we went through so much with FVM. I'd prefer it if the advantages and disadvantages of music style were actually worked with rather than just quietly glossed over.
I'd prefer it if FSS had more build up options in it, like, HC being a channeled attack that does more damage the longer it goes (which is kinda similar to how it works now, since going HC -> HC means you do more damage on the second turn). SEA not being instant, and instead being a more serious field debuff that is used to lay the groundwork for the rest of the song. Maybe even having a thing where you can layer on SEA repeatedly in order to make it even more powerful, and set up massive attacks. It would create interesting tactical issues, and be more aligned with "being music".
(Not to say that music couldn't have fairly abrupt attacks, but that doesn't really fit Zeqing's style)
FSS is particularly annoying in this regard, because it had so much of the music-ness stripped out of it for the sake of convenience. We don't have to sing SEA. HC is basically burst - it doesn't have any kind of channel or ramp up or singing time at all.
That's all a bit annoying after we went through so much with FVM. I'd prefer it if the advantages and disadvantages of music style were actually worked with rather than just quietly glossed over.
I'd prefer it if FSS had more build up options in it, like, HC being a channeled attack that does more damage the longer it goes (which is kinda similar to how it works now, since going HC -> HC means you do more damage on the second turn). SEA not being instant, and instead being a more serious field debuff that is used to lay the groundwork for the rest of the song. Maybe even having a thing where you can layer on SEA repeatedly in order to make it even more powerful, and set up massive attacks. It would create interesting tactical issues, and be more aligned with "being music".
(Not to say that music couldn't have fairly abrupt attacks, but that doesn't really fit Zeqing's style)
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
The problem here is that narratively @yrsillar likes high intensity high-burst fights, and anything that doesn't follow that paradigm is going to be effectively crippled in the kind of fights that will be written.
Being able to do some really nifty set up in the equivalent of 5 turns doesn't really help when basically any fights is decided within 3 turns. At best we'd be stuck in a paradigm where "Ling Qi wins if she survives the first 5 turns" where everything we'll have to optimise would be about being able to survive those turn... when we should be optimising the field set up and delivery instead.
Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
Violation of Rule 3: Be Civil
...Then why put out a preview at all if it's not even representative?
I'm pretty sure Shenhua is on a time-limit, even if it's only years/decades/centuries before she has to truly ascend. And even so, I'm quite certain her plan is to take place faster than that considering that by tying herself with the Bai and fucking with the Sun seems to be setting themselves on a collision course. Not to mention, we don't have centuries to live, so I doubt yrs is going to actually make her plans last for centuries unless we go into serious timeskip mode frequently.
*rolls eyes harder* I'm not basing my opinion on the whole goddamn system, idiot. Especially since most of us don't even know what the full system is. I'm saying, based on that little preview that was put out, it was fucking unreadable to anyone who doesn't give a shit about number-crunching or in-depth examination. I then went on to say I hope the actual system in the new thread whenever that comes out, will actually be readable to those of us who don't care about spreadsheets and shit. Ironic you mention knee jerk reactions when you seem to be having one, just to me having a minor opinion. Please, learn to read.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
True. If it's a one v one. But if I recall correctly, LQ was designed as a support character for team battles. Where tactics, specialisations and combo-wombo matter more. So only fair that her strengths are not in dueling but other combat types (same as Cai).
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notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Because the person doing the preview is a random guy on the internet, and is also bad at what he's trying to do?
Well, also because it was never made to be a preview. It was made for testing purposes. To check the math and make sure combat resolution made sense.
In that sense, while leaving all the math details in there might be confusing to people who never engaged with the old equally complicated system, it also contains the information that the people who understood the system needed to see to understand it.
Yrsillar could have just released the system explanation, but without seeing how it actually resolves we wouldn't understand the implications anyway. Just like the old system.
- Location
- United States of America
Quite honestly, @yrsillar, if you are still taking suggestions and criticisms for the mechanics, I would suggest completely getting rid of the turn-based part of the mechanics, if it hasn't already been done.
We aren't capable of micromanaging Ling Qi anyways and the turn-based system is mainly used in Turn-based strategy or turn-based tactical games (like X-com). Combat in this quest doesn't fit either of the categories. Quite frankly, it adds a layer in the combat system that does little to nothing and I feel that you would be able to do cooler stuff without the turn-based system.
If a technique or art requires time to fully express itself, just add a snippet saying that it takes time to fully be expressed.
We aren't capable of micromanaging Ling Qi anyways and the turn-based system is mainly used in Turn-based strategy or turn-based tactical games (like X-com). Combat in this quest doesn't fit either of the categories. Quite frankly, it adds a layer in the combat system that does little to nothing and I feel that you would be able to do cooler stuff without the turn-based system.
If a technique or art requires time to fully express itself, just add a snippet saying that it takes time to fully be expressed.
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
*reads comments*
Do I misremember things or dice nearly decided to give us success then and there? Bai and Sun under same roof would've been !!FUN!!
As in !!EVERYBODY ELSE!!
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