Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
They can unelect them if we say they can.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
They can unelect them if we say they can.
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Uh-huh... that's pretty naive way of thinking.
Also - he wouldn't have power because of election, he would have power because we appointed him. It would require us to un-appoint him even in case of vote of non-confidence.
but this is the exact kind of circumstance that we have the watery bint for tho
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Which we totally have the power to do?
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Thing is - it would require us to get message which would require him not messing that AND it would require said message to find us.
And if we are planning "hands on" approach we can find better manager in the first place.
Tournament Ling Qi
After reading Ling Qi touching her flower hairpin so many times and about how Xiulan did up her hair for the tournament, I decided that I had to try drawing her new hairstyle. Then one thing led to another.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Why do you assume an elected manager would automatically be more corrupt than one who isn't elected?
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
Some thoughts about Shen Hu, both positive and negative:
Pros:
Pros:
- Not only has a Spirit Beast, but a strong one, and one fitting his combat style well. A lot of otherwise strong students have neglected this
- Has a coherent Art suite. Some of this may be influence from his quasi-patron Elder
SuYing, but from our experiences with Elder Jiao I think a lot of it has to be his own judgement and selection - Generally good attitude. We bullied him the whole match and he didn't seem to be sore about it.
- Lack of initiative. We can see this everywhere, in him missing a year of the tourney, in playing a passive style in the match until we forced him out of it, and even in the tendency of his favored Lake and Earth elements. It's quite possible his cultivation art encourages long fugues or similar.
- Mediocre Talent. Despite having a whole extra year, only 1 CL above us. Even considering he lacked the resources of the Inner Sect or First Year mountain, this probably puts him at Talent 5 at best.
- Lack of connections. Even with two years to network Shen Hu doesn't seem to have really made any friends. Who knows what this says about him, though it did mean he was something of an unknown element going in.
- Unknown background. He could be a commoner or he could have some noble lineage that hasn't come out, but probably not a super important one. His only support structure that we know about seems to be being Elder Ying's favored student, and that Elder Su uses him as a cautionary tale.
- He has at least one trick we still don't understand, the breaking free of the mist. Whether that's an art, a spirit beast, or something else is anyone's guess.
- He might have some useful insights on how we fight. That fight was more serious than any spar we've been in and we've never been on speaking terms with people on the other side of our real fights.
- It's very likely he will be going to Inner. Since there are only eight combat slots he will be one of the few rookies in our class and we will likely be interacting with him more next year.
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al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
By the fact that he managed to organize his election. You need somebody who is not already working for somebody, who interested enough in position and who should be talented enough to hold it. Which means either not actually talented or another character flaw that prevents such person from being already too busy to go for it - so all potential good managers either not interested or not personable enough to get elected.
To get competent and honest (enough) manager we likely need either complete newbie with talent, to persuade somebody who don't want to deal with all that shit or to get through personality of somebody who is too abrasive for his own good or see through reputation of somebody who have a bad one. Or poach manager from somebody.
Honest, Competent, Unemployed (enough to participate in election) - chose 2.
PS. Result of vote would not necessary be dishonest. It can be yessayer that would try to keep everything same old and not cause any waves and that would be walked over by everybody in power within our territory.
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We'll have to check regardless, and probably get rid of whatever conman tricked the peasants into picking him so he could make bank. So we might as well skip the election and find a competent manager ourselves.
We're simply harder to fool for multiple reasons. We have contacts and information and status, we can actually cross check facts. And we're a cultivator. We can read mortals like they're an open book.
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
His patron's Elder Ying, not Elder Su.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Your argument straight up makes no sense to me. Fief administration should be a prestigious position, and hence desirable enough to get people. Which means your "pick two" assertion falls apart.
And frankly an election should generate less corruption than than the "obey me or die" typical of the genre.
No why would it. An election will lead to a bunch of not particularly educated or politically aware people picking whoever makes a good pitch, and then we'll have to investigate the people involved anyway. So might as well skip the election and get with the investigating.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
But conman candidates typically don't win popular elections? Frankly, I don't understand why you think anyone who wins an election is obviously unsuitable. RL indicates otherwise.
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
*Looks at the person who's currently staying in the White House*
Yeah, about that...
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Lost by 3 million votes, yes.
Take that shit to CA and leave it there.
Election are non viable in a world where people can train to be supernaturally charismatic. It doesn't matter how good someone is at bureaucracy if they are fighting a manipulation specced cultivator in an election, they will loose.
Secondly, we are better than mortals. We can use our arts and cultivation advantage to find out who is the most competent infinitely more accurately than mortals.
Lastly, we do not want someone dedicated to the people. We want someone dedicated to us. It's very different.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
An election depends on a populace being able to educate themselves about the candidates. That's unlikely to happen here unless we only allow nobles to vote. People in this setting are fundamentally not equal, and the culture of the Empire reflects that. Commoners are seen as children, and while that's not entirely reasonable, it's also not entirely unreasonable. Having uninformed farmers decide which of their "betters" (as far as society sees them) get to rule them is a bad look, and would probably be seen as us not wanting to bother with our responsibility to our citizens. It really would be better for us to handpick someone.
Besides, why would we do that in character? Ling Qi doesn't really like people at large, and if anything would be more prone than most to seeing her common citizens as childlike things in need of protection and coddling.
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al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Ugh, first there are degree of conman... second corrupt and able to get himself elected =/= conman... and third... you know how traditionally some elections for posts with power worked in small communities? "You, you, you and you too. You all owe me and it's way overdue. If I don't get elected - no extensions." And you know - that was pretty prevalent method of village/community head election in ancient China... (well, when elections were involved) (and all over the world - again when elections were involved) On bigger scale it would just involve some handshaking between big honcho and local honchos. So essentially it would come to who of those that want post have bigger pockets and wider connections. And of course they would want to replenish said pockets...
Ugh... Let's look on how "prestige" worked in historical China. Scholars were prestigious, scholars in government positions even more so. Only to be scholar required enormous (in comparison to others) amount of money so when scholar got position he started either taking bribes or serve one who paid for his education. Or he is from big clan/wealthy family/whatever who paid for it and followed need of said clan/family/whatever. 2 and 3 took bribes anyway. Because you can't eat prestige. Government official was expected to be corrupt for all talk of high morals.
Nobody would try to be elected for prestige. They would try to be elected for benefits. And we are unlikely to give enough benefits for somebody who can get elected so they'll plan to take them themselves.
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Budgeting issues, naturally.Why wouldn't we pay our administrator enough that they wouldn't need to take bribes?
We'll have a relatively high amount of dosh to work with.
But only relatively.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
... then tax people more?
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
1. This isn't modern time with free (enough) education. Most of talented aren't educated, most of educated aren't talented. Most of good administrators already have a good job. So chance of established good administrator wanting to participated in our election is near zero. Non-established wouldn't get elected.
2. That is question that is asked from the dawn of times. Usual answer is "there is no such thing as enough".
Essentially we are unlikely to attract somebody who would be satisfied with what we pay, stay out of corruption on general principle and have chance to win election in our territory.
We can find somebody like that, but not through election.
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