Not to mention that binding a spirit doesn't magically make it obedient. You get your passive bonuses, sure - but if you were counting on having an extra ally to fight with, tough luck.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
No idea, just not Argent mirror.
This was what I was thinking of. She can't read, but that's not why she doesn't take advantage of sect resources. She's just too touchy to about her heritage to 'expose' herself like that. So I was wrong.
Grosstoad
Birdbrain - Dick - Rules-Lawyer - Creeper
Su Ling: +evil cackling+
Ling Qi: "What's with her?"
Suyin: "She just beat up those nobles who used to look down at her for being unable to read."
Ling Qi: "So?"
Suyin: "They were carrying unsecured Jade Slips."
Ling Qi: ". . . Well, good for her."
Suyin: "Yes. Now, excuse me as I need to pare down her ego... SU LING! TIME FOR YOUR CALLIGRAPHY LESSON!"
Su Ling: "SHIT! LEMME' GLOAT A BIT MORE, YA QUACK!"
Suyin: "I AM NOT A QUACK!"
Ling Qi watches on as the duo descends into a spar... That somehow includes scrolls, inks, and brushes. She glances aside to her meditating housemate, looking unconcerned as she dodges ink splatters left and right as her shadow somehow shifts her sitting figure without her moving a single hair.
Cui peeks back at Ling Qi from her spot inside Meizhen's collar, and the tiny snake makes a full body shrug. Ling Qi sighs and makes to follow... Only to have ink splatters onto her cheek.
Su Ling: "WHOOPS! SORRY THERE!"
Ling Qi: ". . . I guess I need some calligraphy lesson as well."
Meizhen lets out a small sigh as her housemate descends on the pair of peasants like an owl closing on her prey. A tiny hissing is the only sign of her cousin's mirth.
Ling Qi: "What's with her?"
Suyin: "She just beat up those nobles who used to look down at her for being unable to read."
Ling Qi: "So?"
Suyin: "They were carrying unsecured Jade Slips."
Ling Qi: ". . . Well, good for her."
Suyin: "Yes. Now, excuse me as I need to pare down her ego... SU LING! TIME FOR YOUR CALLIGRAPHY LESSON!"
Su Ling: "SHIT! LEMME' GLOAT A BIT MORE, YA QUACK!"
Suyin: "I AM NOT A QUACK!"
Ling Qi watches on as the duo descends into a spar... That somehow includes scrolls, inks, and brushes. She glances aside to her meditating housemate, looking unconcerned as she dodges ink splatters left and right as her shadow somehow shifts her sitting figure without her moving a single hair.
Cui peeks back at Ling Qi from her spot inside Meizhen's collar, and the tiny snake makes a full body shrug. Ling Qi sighs and makes to follow... Only to have ink splatters onto her cheek.
Su Ling: "WHOOPS! SORRY THERE!"
Ling Qi: ". . . I guess I need some calligraphy lesson as well."
Meizhen lets out a small sigh as her housemate descends on the pair of peasants like an owl closing on her prey. A tiny hissing is the only sign of her cousin's mirth.
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I was writing a one of my little pretend-scripts with Bai Meizhen getting the unenviable role of tsundere when I realized that Meizhen's reaction was quite a lot over the top. We are putting a lot of stock into her pride, but I think that we've neglected how much she cares because she's not a very demonstrative person.
There is another reason for her to alienate us and that's: 'She'd be better off without me.'
I think that at the beginning of our relationship she thought that we wouldn't be able to keep up with her and thus would be something nice to keep around, but ultimately of no great consequence either way. Her presence did more for us than we did for her as was right and proper.
Now though, we've demonstrated real talent. If Thor's calcs are correct, then we can make green in about a sixth of the time she did. We could become fellow Inner Sect disciples, maybe even lifelong allies. By the same token, we don't need need her to thrive: anyone would be happy to take us under their wing. But by hitching our wagon to hers, we've made her enemies our enemies, and after the events of the Thunderdome she's not sure she can keep us safe anymore because, unlike us, people are going to keep seeking her out. And they've already demonstrated a willingness to use us to seek her out. Hence she's pushing herself to an insane degree, trying to go so fast that no one would possibly dare bother her and by extension Ling Qi.
But then they visit the mountain and... Ling Qi dies.
And all those comfortable little moments where she got to be friends with someone... they all go away. And it's her fault, she should have waited longer, Ling Qi gets strong so quickly, if she just waited a month Ling Qi would have been strong enough for that dungeon, but no, she had to push, she had to push faster and now she's lost her only friend- And Bai realizes that she'd much rather Ling Qi be alive somewhere rather than dead anywhere.
But Ling Qi's not dead. She's alive. Quite, er, quite obviously so. And, um, casual about it. And Meizhen feels a little stupid for having this emotional breakdown.
And then Ling Qi prods. She prods at her worries and insecurities and Bai doesn't know how to deal with that she's never had friends before so she does what comes naturally to her and tries to chase Ling Qi away partly because she's proud but also, partly, because she thinks if it weren't for me you'd have such a great future...
Well, perhaps not. But it's certainly one of the interpretations of what's happened.
There is another reason for her to alienate us and that's: 'She'd be better off without me.'
I think that at the beginning of our relationship she thought that we wouldn't be able to keep up with her and thus would be something nice to keep around, but ultimately of no great consequence either way. Her presence did more for us than we did for her as was right and proper.
Now though, we've demonstrated real talent. If Thor's calcs are correct, then we can make green in about a sixth of the time she did. We could become fellow Inner Sect disciples, maybe even lifelong allies. By the same token, we don't need need her to thrive: anyone would be happy to take us under their wing. But by hitching our wagon to hers, we've made her enemies our enemies, and after the events of the Thunderdome she's not sure she can keep us safe anymore because, unlike us, people are going to keep seeking her out. And they've already demonstrated a willingness to use us to seek her out. Hence she's pushing herself to an insane degree, trying to go so fast that no one would possibly dare bother her and by extension Ling Qi.
But then they visit the mountain and... Ling Qi dies.
And all those comfortable little moments where she got to be friends with someone... they all go away. And it's her fault, she should have waited longer, Ling Qi gets strong so quickly, if she just waited a month Ling Qi would have been strong enough for that dungeon, but no, she had to push, she had to push faster and now she's lost her only friend- And Bai realizes that she'd much rather Ling Qi be alive somewhere rather than dead anywhere.
But Ling Qi's not dead. She's alive. Quite, er, quite obviously so. And, um, casual about it. And Meizhen feels a little stupid for having this emotional breakdown.
And then Ling Qi prods. She prods at her worries and insecurities and Bai doesn't know how to deal with that she's never had friends before so she does what comes naturally to her and tries to chase Ling Qi away partly because she's proud but also, partly, because she thinks if it weren't for me you'd have such a great future...
Well, perhaps not. But it's certainly one of the interpretations of what's happened.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Regardless, I think we can all agree the Bai Meizhen issue is a complicated one- one I think is best served by dropping the issue and quietly reaffirming Ling Qi is her friend, she isn't going anywhere, and has no plans on dieing anytime soon.
Hell I don't mind in the slightest if Bai still winds up as cynical and distrusting of others' motives as before so long as she excludes Ling Qi from it. And the simplest way to do that isn't to try and change her entire worldview or challenge her family's teachings, it's to reinforce that Ling Qi is an exception, that the few times inadvertant vulnerability Ling Qi could exploit happens, she ignores it, that when Ling Qi by all rights should walk away and wash her hands she stands her ground. Kangaroo Jack might have nearly killed us, but it also reaffirmed Ling Qi as a true friend, and sooner or later if similiar situations keep on happening it's not something even Meizhen can ignore.
And if FU is right and Meizhen is lashing out of desire to protect us, than such actions will reaffirm that Ling Qi is choosing to do this if her own free will. And would be dearly helped by Meizhen realizing Ling Qi is actively trying to be a better person and friend.
Hell I don't mind in the slightest if Bai still winds up as cynical and distrusting of others' motives as before so long as she excludes Ling Qi from it. And the simplest way to do that isn't to try and change her entire worldview or challenge her family's teachings, it's to reinforce that Ling Qi is an exception, that the few times inadvertant vulnerability Ling Qi could exploit happens, she ignores it, that when Ling Qi by all rights should walk away and wash her hands she stands her ground. Kangaroo Jack might have nearly killed us, but it also reaffirmed Ling Qi as a true friend, and sooner or later if similiar situations keep on happening it's not something even Meizhen can ignore.
And if FU is right and Meizhen is lashing out of desire to protect us, than such actions will reaffirm that Ling Qi is choosing to do this if her own free will. And would be dearly helped by Meizhen realizing Ling Qi is actively trying to be a better person and friend.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
But yeah, here's hoping giving ground is the right choice here. To be fair, a less well knit group would have probably had a hard time getting this far. The first trial involved a mimic worm that would ambush you (And likely kill anyone who wasn't a complete fucking monster like Meizhen is if they got the drop) if you didn't know your partner well (And from what we saw, it would have tried to trick you into tripping the Formation trap first before it launched a sneak attack). The second trial involved either skill at bypassing a threat as a team, or working as a team to get by a number of opponents. The third test then is to see if at least one of a group of friends is willing to give ground in the face of exigency.
Realistically then, giving ground is probably the correct choice, whichever one of us gives ground anyway, fighting over it or trying to leeroy past are probably the wrong choices. The real question is if taking the right choice still ends up fucking over the one who agreed to sacrifice, or if there'll be a separate reward for the one who did so, to encourage the ones who are willing to suck up their ego for the sake of the group.
Since both of the Elders who provided tutelage were all about fostering competition, but being willing to work as a team when necessary. Hence how Su put up rewards for the top scoring students, but applauded us for working with Suyin despite this. Hence how out of Zhou's trials, only one of them actually tested your individual ability, and the other two were 'How well can you work with a team you chose' and 'How well you can work with a team you didn't choose, and are likely to mesh poorly with you'
I think then the likely outcome is--in the event that the resource at the end is an Art or something rather than an expendable--that the other testee is allowed to access it as well if they conceded. Or alternately, there's another reward prepared that's a bit different--but no less useful. Because it'll be a real dick move for them to try and encourage one sort of behaviour, but still kick you in the face when you do it because "Well, you've got to learn that this is the right thing to do--but you'll still suffer for no gains for doing it, but you still have to do it".
Realistically then, giving ground is probably the correct choice, whichever one of us gives ground anyway, fighting over it or trying to leeroy past are probably the wrong choices. The real question is if taking the right choice still ends up fucking over the one who agreed to sacrifice, or if there'll be a separate reward for the one who did so, to encourage the ones who are willing to suck up their ego for the sake of the group.
Since both of the Elders who provided tutelage were all about fostering competition, but being willing to work as a team when necessary. Hence how Su put up rewards for the top scoring students, but applauded us for working with Suyin despite this. Hence how out of Zhou's trials, only one of them actually tested your individual ability, and the other two were 'How well can you work with a team you chose' and 'How well you can work with a team you didn't choose, and are likely to mesh poorly with you'
I think then the likely outcome is--in the event that the resource at the end is an Art or something rather than an expendable--that the other testee is allowed to access it as well if they conceded. Or alternately, there's another reward prepared that's a bit different--but no less useful. Because it'll be a real dick move for them to try and encourage one sort of behaviour, but still kick you in the face when you do it because "Well, you've got to learn that this is the right thing to do--but you'll still suffer for no gains for doing it, but you still have to do it".
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If so many of the higher up cultivators didn't seem to have vassals or people they trust as seconds I would have an easier time agreeing with this. As it is many of the people that are yellow so far have someone they could arrive here with, and then order to leave, and quite reasonably expect to be obeyed. I doubt this year is an unusual situation in that regard, so I don't think this is actually a friendship test.
I still think we should leave, because this is Bai's find, but but I don't think this is as easy as one person voluntarily giving up the prize is the winning move for both.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I guess that's possible.
Really, the hardest part about these tests is that it's just short of fucking impossible to figure out what they actually want from you.
On the subject of sharing Argent Mirror with others, discussion is a bit premature before we learn it and reassess to see if we even have the jade slip any longer. Sharing also reminds me we agreed to swap shadow walking tips with our roomie. After the third step would feel appropriate to me.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
I think it's the middle between those two: One person voluntaritly giving up the prize means that the other person could share a good part of it. Remember that while we were praised for helping Li Suyin out, it didn't change there was still a limited numbers of prize... except we could share our winnings.
This, I think, is key here. It doesn't matter if we are a vassals or anything. By agreeing to work together, the one winning the prize will have an opportunity to share their jade slips/etc if they do want to. After all, while trusting a team mate and loyalty is important, being betrayed by the person you trust is also something that happens and something we should be aware of.
It fits "preparation for real world" theme well.
Well, keep in mind that even if the jade slip disappears we can still directly teach it. More effort, but still doable, especially with the new action system for paired actions (E.G, attach a 'teach AMA to Lu Sing' to a vent cultivation of AMA action).
OH MY GOD.
I just realized.
There's no freaking reason for Bai Meizhen to be carrying around a super special medicinal tea that can only be used for red realm cultivators, she started at late Yellow. Either she was instructed to gift it to worthy allies or she's been buying super expensive medicinal tea for us and 'pretending' it was just something that happened to be at the bottom of her bag that she couldn't use anymore.
OMG that's actually... really considerate of her??? Did she notice how little we wanted to be in her debt??? I think she might be packing more social dots then she's letting on. Maybe this is what a Composure-type social fu looks like.
I just realized.
There's no freaking reason for Bai Meizhen to be carrying around a super special medicinal tea that can only be used for red realm cultivators, she started at late Yellow. Either she was instructed to gift it to worthy allies or she's been buying super expensive medicinal tea for us and 'pretending' it was just something that happened to be at the bottom of her bag that she couldn't use anymore.
OMG that's actually... really considerate of her??? Did she notice how little we wanted to be in her debt??? I think she might be packing more social dots then she's letting on. Maybe this is what a Composure-type social fu looks like.
It's petty revenge for all the trials the Elders had to do when they were younger.
"Vaneerian Silk Worms!"
"Those northern grubs that smell like necrotic flesh and have a tendency to explode into a substance similar to Nian excrement?"
"The kids will love it!"
"You're a sick man Han Yu."
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I disagree. Everyone is just overthinking this.
Know who your friends are, and treat them well. Know who your enemies are, and beat them up. Stop trying to guess what the elders want. Deal with the test at face value. Tests of character might exist, but are also inevitably mind-reading face-stealing spirits you need to kill.
No, she likes the taste and it perks her up. Re-read the chapter where we give her the tea.
I think it is pretty likely that she was sent off with some stuff she could easily part or didn't have much of a personal use for to serve as bribes. Giving her a way to buy allies definitely seems within the reach of her family when their kids are being sent off to hostile territory. Then this random girl became her friend and she chose not to bother with trying to put out feelers. She has one useful friend and ally, and that is enough. Anything more than that and she would have to go out and talk to people personally, and that would be awful.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
We have been explicitly told Meizhen is much, much, much better at social than people are assuming. She just doesn't have "have all the friends" as goals, in part for political reasons, but she probably have all 5s maybe a 6 in her social stats, and probably socialise at 6.
But yeah, I suspect she did take resources explicitly for red/gold with her so she could make alliances.
Fifth time trying to post this. :<
Alternately...
Elder Jiao: (doing something suitable for a respected Elder like trimming a bonsai tree or something)
Elder Jiao: (sudden realization)
Elder Jiao: ...SHIT, I forgot about the turtle.
Elder Jiao: (considers this)
Elder Jiao: Ehh, whatever.
Alternately...
Elder Jiao: (doing something suitable for a respected Elder like trimming a bonsai tree or something)
Elder Jiao: (sudden realization)
Elder Jiao: ...SHIT, I forgot about the turtle.
Elder Jiao: (considers this)
Elder Jiao: Ehh, whatever.
- Location
- United States
Where was this? I missed it.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
There is a reason I pointed out that while 4 major actions would be harsh it would be doable, yes. However, you do have quite a bit of your numbers probably wrong.
If progress for Physical cultivation and Spiritual cultivation mirrors to what they were in red/gold, it will be 120 mid/240late/360 peak (it was 20mid/40late/60peak). I am expecting a lot of your math are designed to look at 'worst case scenarios', but having a lot of your resource-use seems to be focusing on the less effective and more expensive resources as well as less than optimal repartition means that it gives a skewed representation of how many sect jobs per month we need to keep up close to maximal resource use.
For example, if we take us at Late Yellow, the most effective drug use every weeks are 2 yellow stone, 1 bear marrow, and then maybe pills specifically for combat arts or meridians and Qi if we are also doing those, but even those might be coming into "not worth the price unless we are doing heavy cultivation". Depending on weeks, 'actual' money needed will probably be around 20-25 stones on average I think.... and how much we need strongly depend on how expensive beast cores are.
Things like going into dungeons, hunting actions, etc, are all "more stones" actions. So, for example, Mid Hunting might only give 6 sect point, but if it also gives 50 stones in beast core it means not having to break those sect points, so it might be more effective than hard herb gathering as long as we don't have more than sufficient stones. OTOH, once we do, points are more important.
Another small detail is we don't know if Qi takes into account the normal AS dice as well as tutoring. We know using Sable Light Pill doesn't (just takes into account pills/stones, talent, and auto-successes), but maybe 'normal' Qi actions do.
tl;dr: 5 major actions means we have a significant amount of give both for sect jobs and for exploring actions while still being able to significantly keep up on cultivation.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
You appear to be correct. Still means we can get more than expected, and probably should do so, but yeah.
Can't find the actual post currently
It was when people were arguing about Meizhen being utterly unable to socialise at all/etc, and @yrsillar going "what, no she just has different standards".So looking back the times we have searched the mountain we were with Su Ling both times, and she wouldn't go past the outskirts of the forest with us because the spirit beasts get more dangerous deeper in. We are now quite a bit more powerful than we were the last two times, having achieved yellow and silver, and I can't help but think we should wait until night falls and just go deeper into the forest. We get pretty solid bonuses to speed, initiative, and stealth in the darkness and we have no penalties for acting in the darkness.
If you consider that most people do get said penalties and don't have such a set of modifiers that make night time exploring easier than day time exploring it just makes sense that most people have done their searching through the forest for unique locations during the day. Considering there are moon and darkness spirits, I think it is very likely that there are hidden spots that can only be found at night, and we are well suited to be the first cultivator that finds them in our class. We should get our gear together and spend a major action searching the forest specifically at night.
If you consider that most people do get said penalties and don't have such a set of modifiers that make night time exploring easier than day time exploring it just makes sense that most people have done their searching through the forest for unique locations during the day. Considering there are moon and darkness spirits, I think it is very likely that there are hidden spots that can only be found at night, and we are well suited to be the first cultivator that finds them in our class. We should get our gear together and spend a major action searching the forest specifically at night.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
I'm actually a bit surprised by this. Her year didn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
I will now explain why in extensive and totally irrelevant detail, based upon numbers generated from a mix of loose estimates and guesswork.
We know that the Argent Peak Sect is "one of the three great sects of the province". How many provinces there are in the Empire we don't know, but the general sense I've been getting is that it's fairly low, something like a dozen. If we assume that the overall population of the Empire resembles that of ancient China's estimated highest (which has no basis but seems to fit the themes involved; we know there are "hundreds of thousands" of red/golds, at least), then we're looking at something like 60 million people, so about 5 million per province. Assume a quarter of those go to the Argent Peak Sect (each of the other great sects getting another quarter and the last being divided amongst smaller sects), and we have the sect's cultivators primarily drawn from the young people of an overall 1.25 million population. Given skewed age demographics and more so in lower-tech regions, something like 3% of that population is likely to be at the age to potentially enter the sect in any given year, so the under two hundred people that we see here are the best of an available recruitment pool of 37,500. But we're really only interested in the very peak- it's the mid to late yellow starters that matter to the "high-level rookies" assessment. So we're really looking about ten people out of 37,500, or 0.027% of the population.
I have no trouble whatsoever believing that the most capable(/wealthy) 0.027% of the population had enough Talent and received enough early training with solid arts to kick them into yellow by their mid-teens. That seems pretty reasonable, given the mechanics involved and the fact that their parents are going to be significantly higher-tier cultivators than them, meaning that because of the very nonlinear money scale they could probably pay for all the spirit stones and drugs we've used in our cultivation so far out of the budget they use to purchase a single spirit stone of their tier.
We've got the daughter of a Duchess and some other important types here, but she shouldn't skew anything- it's not like there's any particular shortage of uniquely important people around to have kids. There are rulers, generals, inquisitors, sect leaders, high advisors, and generally all kinds of people achieving prominence because they have high Talent scores and then having their kids inherit those and sending them to school.
The weird year should be when there aren't a handful of particularly notable initiates.
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