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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Make it look like accidents. Make it look like someone from Sun Liling faction did it. make it look like some other crafter-track dude did it.
There's ways to throw off suspicion from Ling Qi, if she bothers trying.

I think the bigger issue is that we didn't get anything on the targets. As the chap is written Ling Qi got up and walked away before getting even just their names.
 
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Fu Xiang is a snake, and not the good kind.
That being said, he is the pragmatic and utilitarian sort.
It is highly likely that he is invested in our bussiness partnership, and is interested in all the windfalls said partnership would bring him.
The chances of him double-crossing us is almost nill.
If he turns on us, the whole Cai's council fall on him like a ton of bricks.
 
So, on the topic of Fu Xiang's missions and the debt that we have towards him.

I personally feel apprehension towards these missions not do to our skill level, but to the harm that it can cause to our relationship with Li Suyin. Ling Qi is a greedy person, but she is more concerned about not being lonely again, and creating a strain in the relationship has the potential to hurt that goal. As such, I'm not convinced by arguments saying that this is an opportunity to allow Li Suyin to remove Ling Qi from a pedestal. This fear is not based in creating a healthier relationship between Li Suyin and Ling Qi, but Ling Qi's fear that this action will cause strain in a relationship which creates the potential to have flashbacks to how Ling Qi felt when she and Meizhen had a strain in their relationship.

While I am sure that we can overcome that strain given time and effort, I don't believe that strain should be waved away as a means of allowing Li Suyin to grow as a character. Ling Qi is slightly uncomfortable with the relationship as it is, but it is working, and Ling Qi should feel fear and apprehension in something that could damage that relationship.

That being said, I do think we should do the mission, as we need to repay the debt that we have with Fu Xiang. And if we are doing the mission, going all the way is, I believe, the more appropriate manner of doing it. Our stealth skills are excellent, and while our larceny skills need some work, Fu Xiang gave the information that these people probably won't have as heavy defenses as Yan Renshu. If nothing else, having a person in our debt within the ministry of communications can only be a boon, or we can cash in those debts sooner to get equipment that we desperately need. The problem, I feel, is that we have to do this with our current equipment as buying equipment for larceny missions from the market, and then having a huge theft spree pins the suspicion directly on us.

On the aspect of pinning blame, if we can, I would totally support the planting of evidence to implicate a person. The question is who?

My first wish would be to plant evidence against Yan Renshu, for the simple reason that it will make him look even worse. But if we can, I would leave 2 layers of evidence. The first obvious layer pointing back to us, and the second layer, less obvious, pointing to Yan Renshu. This would make it look like a failed framing attempt against us by Yan Renshu, and the beautiful thing is that Yan Renshu has motive and opportunity to do this thing as well. An operation like this would be much more complicated, but increase our standing as an upright and just person who is being unfairly targeted, and Yan Renshu's reputation as a shady operator who is a sore loser.
 
If Suyin can't handle Ling Qi being a thief it's probably better to have the issue coming out now, than in a couple years when the stakes are actually important.

Ling Qi is a thief and saboteur.
The only path i can see out of that role, be it under CRX, Bai or the Sect, is if she goes full assassin. Which i think everyone can agree is a bad idea.
 
Thor's Twin said:
My first wish would be to plant evidence against Yan Renshu, for the simple reason that it will make him look even worse. But if we can, I would leave 2 layers of evidence. The first obvious layer pointing back to us, and the second layer, less obvious, pointing to Yan Renshu. This would make it look like a failed framing attempt against us by Yan Renshu, and the beautiful thing is that Yan Renshu has motive and opportunity to do this thing as well. An operation like this would be much more complicated, but increase our standing as an upright and just person who is being unfairly targeted, and Yan Renshu's reputation as a shady operator who is a sore loser.
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My feeling is that trying to plant evidence against ourselves in that way is too risky, and would fall under "excessively clever plan that will probably backfire" category.

Better if we just try to avoid any overt connection to it.
 
Personally I would prefer to postpone Fu Xiang's missions to after our breakthrough, the Green boni and an eventual level in EPC/SCS could very well help us if we want to be undetected
 
Erebeal said:
My feeling is that trying to plant evidence against ourselves in that way is too risky, and would fall under "excessively clever plan that will probably backfire" category.

Better if we just try to avoid any overt connection to it.
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Well, there is a problem in not leaving any overt connection to the heist. The fact that we are a known thief and a thief who is excellent makes people have a connection to us already whenever a theft occurs.

I can't think of any other "thieves" on the mountain other than us, which means that we might also be other people's first suspicion on who could be the thief. That is one of the problems with being a well-known thief. While there might be no evidence to implicate us, the lack of evidence has never stopped people from being suspicious of the most likely character. In this case, a complete lack of evidence towards anyone might make people more suspicious of us, by dint that we are the most famous thief. If we want to completely avoid suspicions, then we need to do something about that and be able to deflect people's attention towards someone else.

I frankly don't care how we do it, but planting evidence and framing someone (my first choice would be Yan Renshu) would be a logical method by which to divert attention away from ourselves and towards someone else. By making it look like Yan Renshu is attempting to frame us, we also create the impression that any excuse and rational is a well-crafted alibi and shouldn't be believed. If there was simple attempt to frame Yan Renshu, then a good alibi brings into question whether he is being framed, with the most likely candidates to frame him being Lady Cai and then us by proxy.

Is this a complicated plan? Probably. Will it backfire on us? Since we have very low dice in subterfuge and politics, and not that great dice in wit, my guess is that it would. Should we do it? I would agree with you and say probably not. However, this dance of suspicion and layering a web of lies, deceit, and implicit messages in our actions and thefts is something that we should probably get good at if we want to continue robbing from progressively wealthier and influential cultivators.

If we weren't a known thief, I would say we shouldn't worry about it. But we whiffed the Yan Renshu escape, as well as the scouting of Sun Liling's fortress. Now that the rumor wheel has gotten around and we are marked as a thief, it is something that we will have to deal with and we are going to have to up our game.
 
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Personally I'd go with the simpler plan of sabotaging two of them and framing the third that was suggested earlier. I wonder if Fu Xiang is double-dipping by already getting paid by Cai Renxiang. Still Ling Qi does owe him a favor. I doubt she'd get any valuable loot out of this as they are Yellow-tier craftspeople.
 
It's also possible that those crafters are not part of the people protected by Cai and that has such there is no need for any try to hide our involvement beyond not getting caught.
 
I'd prefer Ling Qi do something that helps his production project - say, hunting down useful components. Unless the target is someone already identified as an 'enemy', of course. Even then, the chance of "preserving evidence it was Ling Qi as useful future material" is a concern (among others).

Ling Qi is an excellent thief - but as I see it, she uses those skills in a different way than she once did. Her targets are already hostile to her, or her actions are more whimsical (the Jiao-directed spree), or she's sneaking around to gain intel, etc. She sees her actions of stealing from those who haven't harmed her (or even helped her, like the old man) in the past as shameful. I rather don't want her to go through some drama over this kind of thing again; it harms her character growth.
 
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Did Fu Xiang say that we could not tell Cai about the favor? If he did not maybe Ling Qi should run it by her to make sure she does not take offense.
 
Taking the tutor's advice into account, I've refined a bit what I feel like Ling Qi should have as a 'path', and it has three components. She could just focus on one, of course, either exclusively or as a base (more or less abandoning the rest), or she could add in more items, but I feel like these can fit together - at least for this stage of her cultivation (I suspect a cultivator's journey through Green involves a lot of pruning and revising of arts - which would be why the Elders aren't really all that concerned about their disciples learning arts that don't fit together conceptually*). These components are (1) Argent, (2) Moon, (3) Music. There's also (4) Archery and (5) Wind to consider, but I feel like those aren't the same. There's also the question of (6) Thousand Ring Fortress and Zhengui.

1. 'Argent' is a shorthand for the balanced path that Master Yuan took, which the tutor warned was difficult to follow, especially "scattered". However, its balanced nature makes it an excellent "learning set" and means it's unlikely to be incompatible with any other components. The coverage of eight elements suggests quite a bit of flexibility - and so far the arts themselves seem to be pretty useful (AC and AS are still in early stages, so still seeing where those go). It also likely helps to mitigate any extreme personality impact from elements and, given as this is Yuan's sect, there is no danger of lacking materials to further this component. I would want Ling Qi to pick up the foundational arts, master them and then the two Cultivation Arts. Now, whether she should go any further down this path...? Probably not. The four Combat Arts and two Cultivation Arts are sufficient here. It might even be that Ling Qi puts aside the four Combat Arts some time in Green - their role being more of a learning tool and balancer as Ling Qi figures out her path. Or perhaps she'll move further towards these "contradictory element" arts.

2. The Moon is going to offer quite a bit of Yin and Darkness. Note, however, that two of the three arts have other elements (I wouldn't be too suprised if Sable Crescent Steps picks up something else - Wind, say), and those are compatible with the other two components. I'm not sure if every Moon-type art is going to have Darkness, mind you - the ones so far are from the Grinning Moon, after all. There's a lot of emphasis on secrets and hidden things in the moon thematics, and I recall one of the phases is associated with music. Ling Qi has really immersed herself in the (Grinning) Moon thematics, but how much of that is really her lingering pre-cultivator life and the deliberate coaxing of a spiritual patron and how much what she wants to be in the future? I do see her as not being limited to a 'thief cultivator' even if she keeps the Moon theme however.

3. Ling Qi only has one Music art (so far), but this definitely seems something that's important to her - heck, it's just about the one hobby she's expressed over the past year that isn't "get stronger" or "nick stuff and stay alive". It also can come almost directly under Moon and, so far at least, the Argent Arts are well compatible with musical attacks. Given Ling Qi can play music without anything so mundane as the need for air or even sound to carry it, it's in some ways the most supernatural of her capabilities (well, it's all supernatural, but hey, music, spheres, etc). While the Argent component might end up simply being "training wheels", as it were, I don't see Music leaving ever.

Now, these are the three components I feel Ling Qi should pursue, at least in the near future. What does this mean? Well, for one, I feel that she shouldn't pick up any more Arts that don't fit together with at least one of the above - more is desirable, of course, and I wouldn't want her to pick up more Argent-type arts beyond the foundations without them being at least connected to a 'second tier' component (see below). And definitely no Cultivation Arts unless they're musical in concept. Yes, that means that I'd be pretty hesitant on her picking up a Wind cultivation art (say, from Cloud Tribe loot).

There are, however, two 'secondary' components that, while currently more a matter of mechanical utility than desired thematics, might end up being promoted.

4. Archery is, as even the proponents seem to admit, a utility skill and not, as for the tutor, a path towards the peak. Archery's been pointed out as a way to force enemies to get close into Ling Qi's misty "domain", or a way to harass from a distance before disengaging, or even early on, as a way to deliver damage. There's not a lot about what an archer is, what it brings to Ling Qi's character or anything like that - just "this is a way to damage or constrain the tactics of enemies". Once FSA is mastered, I would probably not recommend Ling Qi pick up further archery arts unless they fall under Moon or are an Argent archery art (or fits with Music, although that might be a bit rarer). Mind you, it's a useful tool, and one that shouldn't be incompatible with any of the three 'primary' components, but it's simply not broad enough to make for a basis for a path.

5. Ling Qi is quite talented at Wind (there's a bit of a question mark there - I do wonder what would've showed up if she hadn't picked the Wind art and mastered it). In fact, she's got several arts that take advantage of that. And it certainly has the breadth for the basis of a path (at least in part). However, it doesn't really feel like a 'primary' component - probably because while an element is broad, it's sort of subsumed into the Argent component in some sense. Maybe if Ling Qi picks up some arts that are both Wind and one of the other components it'd feel more integrated into Ling Qi's nature - but I donno; Wind, while an element, doesn't seem to feel as 'characterized' as Darkness or Music.

6. Thousand Ring Fortress is kind of the odd man out, as it were - Yang instead of balanced or Yin (admittedly, FSA is also Yang; to be honest, I'm wishing Ling Qi picked up a Yin archery art), Wood instead of part of the Imperial Eight or Darkness and otherwise not really meshing with the rest other than in utility. I'm kind of in favor of Ling Qi retiring it, to be honest... with one sticking point. Zhengui, who's Wood and Fire, growth and destruction. I'd kind of wish that Ling Qi could sort of 'foist' TRF off on to the little guy (I donno - it might be possible, I suppose) since it's just not really meshing currently. It's a strong art and useful... but it's still an oddity. This might change in Green, of course, as the path evolves.

7. Zhengui is Zhengui. It's really tempting to pick up arts that synergize with his elemental nature - both for the learning bonuses (which, admittedly, are currently not all that significant) and for the thematics. But I don't think that Zhengui needs to thematically match Ling Qi in some sense for them to stay together. And, heck, even so while he's a cycle of growth, Ling Qi could be a cycle of elements (Argent) or a cycle of phases (Moon).

We'll see what Green looks like, of course, and the inner sect. And to some extent, accepting or rejecting Renxiang's offer will have an impact, along with Ling Qi's other decisions. As for where to go in her cultivation... well, again, I suspect that Green will change our perspective as mechanics are revealed or shift. I'm wondering if permanent bonuses from breakthrough aren't strictly speaking truly 'permanent' (that is, if Ling Qi completely ignored Wind during Yellow, she might see that +1 initiative vanish), for example, or if meridians change in their nature, becoming easier or harder to re-adapt or are replaced by something similar (as bodies become less like a mortal's and more like a spirit's).

Up until Green we've got a good idea of what she needs to get - more levels of arts she already has, the fourth Argent foundational art, maybe a few more meridians and a bit more qi if she can.


* They don't give advice about keeping a focus and, moreover, Ling Qi was given (as "art that'd be useful for her") a Yang Wood art, which was pretty far away from everything else she knows. So Yellow is perhaps where you're free to experiment and try things out, but as you move through Green you settle down. Of course, the cultivators that Ling Qi compares herself to are ones who are already more or less set in their 'path'...
 
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CircleTheSkies said:
* They don't give advice about keeping a focus and, moreover, Ling Qi was given (as "art that'd be useful for her") a Yang Wood art, which was pretty far away from everything else she knows. So Yellow is perhaps where you're free to experiment and try things out, but as you move through Green you settle down. Of course, the cultivators that Ling Qi compares herself to are ones who are already more or less set in their 'path'...
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I agree with the general idea, though not all the details. In red no-one even has a complete art suite yet, there's no room to experiment. In yellow, you mainly just have room to get a complete art suite together (which for most people will be from their family), and then experiment with maybe 1 or 2 other arts. Early Green is probably where one has the most room to experiment.

And Ling Qi's friends aren't set in their paths yet. Right now they mostly have their family arts, and are looking around for what their personal style might be. Meizhen is experimenting with Earth. Xiulan seems to be going more of a heaven path. We know that Yanmei and Suzhen are metal cultivators - which is a long way from their family styles. Given that you barely have room to add any new elements to your repertoire in Yellow, I suspect that most of this experimentation happens in Green.
 
Erebeal said:
I agree with the general idea, though not all the details. In red no-one even has a complete art suite yet, there's no room to experiment. In yellow, you mainly just have room to get a complete art suite together (which for most people will be from their family), and then experiment with maybe 1 or 2 other arts. Early Green is probably where one has the most room to experiment.

And Ling Qi's friends aren't set in their paths yet. Right now they mostly have their family arts, and are looking around for what their personal style might be. Meizhen is experimenting with Earth. Xiulan seems to be going more of a heaven path. We know that Yanmei and Suzhen are metal cultivators - which is a long way from their family styles. Given that you barely have room to add any new elements to your repertoire in Yellow, I suspect that most of this experimentation happens in Green.
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Mmmm... I donno. I can see that, and I wouldn't expect experimentation and trying out things to stop in Green, but I still feel like Green's process is about establishing that core. I'm guessing "Appraisal" is about figuring out if what you have is what'll suit you going forward, then you have the further stages where you actually push it forward until it all snaps together.

I suspect Sun Liling's push into Appraisal might be a bit rash in a search for raw power - that the sect generally prefers that by the time their disciples are ready to hit Appraisal, they're in the inner sect where they can get some advice and guidance. But that's just a suspicion.
 
CircleTheSkies said:
Mmmm... I donno. I can see that, and I wouldn't expect experimentation and trying out things to stop in Green, but I still feel like Green's process is about establishing that core. I'm guessing "Appraisal" is about figuring out if what you have is what'll suit you going forward, then you have the further stages where you actually push it forward until it all snaps together.

I suspect Sun Liling's push into Appraisal might be a bit rash in a search for raw power - that the sect generally prefers that by the time their disciples are ready to hit Appraisal, they're in the inner sect where they can get some advice and guidance. But that's just a suspicion.
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Well, that's probably true at the higher levels of green. Remember though that Green takes years. 6 years to complete it is good.

If we took, say, the first 6 months of next year to just get new arts and train them up to Green 1, how many arts could we try? A lot. And proportionally it wouldn't even make a great difference in how long it will take us to get through Green.
 
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