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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Pandemonious Ivy said:
Oh hey, someone else noticed this.

Like, I just caught up only a handful of updates ago, so I'm not as immediately invested as everyone else. But Ling has never truly lost. Ever. Being outmatched by a teacher doesn't count. Fighting a doomed war in a simulation doesn't count. Training with a superior combatant who's a friend doesn't count.

When has she ever lost in a way that was meaningful? That was impactful?

For the purposes of a story, the protagonist has to eventually fail in order to gain some character growth. Unless the purpose of this is to showcase the effects of constant victory and, at worst, minor setbacks, in which case I'm hoping it's covered more in the future.

As it stands, I don't believe this is handling "what it's like to become a god" as well as "what it's like to embody victory", so the former doesn't preclude loss.

I would love to read a character shift in the MC that comes from being confronted with the consequences of her actions and deciding to deal with it honestly. If she wins, that means something. If she loses, it means more.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
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How about instead of saying things how you want "character growth", and stuff - how about you first explain this "character growth" first. Like. How do you see - how do you believe Ling Qi would 'grow' out of this if she lost against Su Liling because she, out of character, decided to fight Bai Meizhen's Peer and believed that she will win?

Because, let me tell you my opinion: that sounds incredibly ass-backwards.

Like. Ho-boy. You can't claim "character growth" when the action that caused it in the first place is helluva out of character in the first place. It would be another thing if you believe that Ling Qi would win against Su Liling, but nooo, you want her to lose! Why? Because "character growth". Hell, you would be entirely correct if Ling Qi is someone who is cocky, someone cocksure, and someone overly confident who would abandon her friends for the sake of power, and that stuff.

Voting to Stay and Fight so that Ling Qi can have a "character growth" is incredibly, and unfairly punitive towards Ling Qi.

Because Ling Qi had/has lost.

Lots.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
When has she ever lost in a way that was meaningful? That was impactful?
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Yes? Did you not read the part where we failed the Elder's test and missed out on an irreplaceable opportunity? Sure we got a consolation prize of lessons with him, but that was because we did perfect in an unwinnable situation. The rolls for that were amazing enough to impress even the Elder. However, it was clearly that, a consolation prize.

I don't buy into that being an failure without meaning. It had a great deal of consequence, both in story and out. Nor was it lacking in character growth. Just look at Xiulan's face or how Ling Qi forced herself to drop her flute so a similar situation would not happen again.

Then there is the miscommunication with Meizhan that spiralled into weeks of emotional hurt. Or the time she got stabbed so hard she had a spirit vision and the only reason she wasn't crippled was her side won and sold everything to pay for recovery.

There have been other failures we've avoided the consequences of (hopefully including this one), however that didn't happen because the narrative bent over backwards. It's because people played to the best of their ability and did so with intelligent planning. If she rofl-stomped Ji Rong after taunting him or otherwise did stupid shit without consequence, I think your argument would be a lot stronger.

It's one thing to say you want to see another failure. I disagree with the mindset we need to force one instead of letting it happen naturally, but you do you. Don't have a problem with it. Though I do take issue with questioning if there has ever been meaningful failures, or the implication that failures need to be deep and impactful to have meaning or elicit change.
 
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Pandemonious Ivy said:
Oh hey, someone else noticed this.

Like, I just caught up only a handful of updates ago, so I'm not as immediately invested as everyone else. But Ling has never truly lost. Ever. Being outmatched by a teacher doesn't count. Fighting a doomed war in a simulation doesn't count. Training with a superior combatant who's a friend doesn't count.

When has she ever lost in a way that was meaningful? That was impactful?

For the purposes of a story, the protagonist has to eventually fail in order to gain some character growth. Unless the purpose of this is to showcase the effects of constant victory and, at worst, minor setbacks, in which case I'm hoping it's covered more in the future.

As it stands, I don't believe this is handling "what it's like to become a god" as well as "what it's like to embody victory", so the former doesn't preclude loss.

I would love to read a character shift in the MC that comes from being confronted with the consequences of her actions and deciding to deal with it honestly. If she wins, that means something. If she loses, it means more.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
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So you point is, she should stay and fight so she loses, get her dress taken, probably some other stuff (ie: flute!) and maybe crippled. Oh, and lets not forget whom ever else that's hanging around waiting to cash in on Ling Qi's defeat too.
Right, brilliant move that.
 
And, argghhh. I was really hoping our weak spiritual dice wouldn't bite us before we could try to rectify them...

Yeah, that was wishful thinking, considering that our solutions are months out. But still.
 
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The notion that 'we didn't lose Thunderdome 2' when Ling Qi was literally hospitalized, her roommate was forced into alliance with Cai to pay her medical costs, and the flute her mother gave her was destroyed is kinda stupid anyway.

Yeah. Honestly? Maybe team Cai won that fight, but Ling Qi lost it. That was character growth.

Frankly, that's at least half the reason I still dislike Sun Liling.
 
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Floom said:
Also, I think this proves how much we could use a dedicated anti-scrying/sense concealment art, as if people can just scry on us at will, we will never be able to leave our house without everyone and their mother's ambushing us.
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Well, we don't know how exactly Renshu got our schedule, but there are a few ways. He can have bird puppets looking for us, or minions telling him each time they see us, etc.

After all we haven't really taking steps to conceal our comings and goings and we have been visiting Zequing mountain each two weeks pretty regularly.
 
Lazy Minx said:
You're the one that misunderstands Zequing. I'm not saying she's uncaring. However, she's also proven as someone who wants us to pull our self up rather than spoon feed us.
If you look back, I like Zequing and defended her actions when everyone was cursing her for the blizzard thing. So, as someone who likes her, she's still unlikely to get involved.

She likes us, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just two cultivators fighting in front of her, why should she interfere when the one who she does like responded so negatively to her help, to her?
Like, seriously. In her own way she went out her way to impart her wisdom upon us, to help us reach our breakthrough in that instance and we get upset with her.
Yes, it's a case of human to spirit miscommunication. Yes, it's a minor thing that would easily be solved by a small conversation. Yes, we were on the way to have that conversation.

The problem is that voters are expecting help from someone whose relationship with us has not only been set back, but has always been hindered by the fact that one of the participants doesn't think in a human way.
If we have to run, running back down the mountain is the best idea.
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Do you remember the part where we told her that the problem was that she hadn't asked before doing that to us? She still didn't get WHY that was important to us, but she noted that she'd keep it in mind.

And she DOES have some human traits. Not a lot, not as many as Xin, but she has some.
PrimalShadow said:
How has she proven this? The only thing I can think of is the snowstorm, and that had NOTHING to do with Independence; it was just the best method she knew of giving us the inspiration we were lacking.
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THIS

Lemme get the quote.
yrsillar said:
"To face the slow specter of death by cold, alone and without recourse is the greatest of inspirations in her eyes. How could she deny you the opportunity?"
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Hell, Qi even commented that she'd still have done it, if she'd just been given the choice to.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
Firstly, one of the things I like about FoD is that Ling Qi is not a meathead who thinks that she has to beat all her enemies into submission. That's a defining characteristic of hers as opposed to many (though hardly all) xianxia protagonists. She will fight smart and yes she will pick her fights, avoiding losing or meaningless ones if she can. I certainly don't want to see that change.

'Becoming a god' and 'embodying victory' don't have to be defined by arrogance and stupidity, though I can see why some people would think that. The stupider gods do seem to get all the attention, don't they?

As for loss defining character growth, that's always been a rather stupid idea, but even if it's true it would be more interesting and true to character for Ling Qi to try to avoid said loss rather than uncharacteristically jump into it.
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Erebeal said:
Ok, so I'm going to admit here that one of the things I'm happiest about is that we now have a description of what Sun Liling is wearing these days.

Any, this is great! Our immanent suffering sucks a bit, but we totally deserved this. Honestly, we've been rampaging all over the place far to much, and this kind of consequence was desperately needed for the universe to be remotely credible. And, as @Pandemonious Ivy noted, narratively we do need to lose at some point. That being said, making bad decisions in order to provoke that loss doesn't really make sense. Better that we honestly do what we can to survive, and lose in spite of that if we have to rather than suddenly suffering from testosterone poisoning.

And fighting her is a bad idea. We spar with Meizhen regularly, and she wrecks us. That is the level we should be expecting from Sun. Maybe if we had better spiritual dice, it might be viable. But we don't.



I wouldn't count Thunderdome 2 as a loss for us. Our team won - in no small part due to our actions - and we got sweet recognition and rewards from it.

Also: Dammit Ling Qi. What have I been saying for weeks about how we should be sneaking everywhere? That wasn't just tongue in cheek joking about how to abuse EPC. We are a major target! If they weren't trying to ambush us it would be surprising!
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SoothingCoffee said:
How about instead of saying things how you want "character growth", and stuff - how about you first explain this "character growth" first. Like. How do you see - how do you believe Ling Qi would 'grow' out of this if she lost against Su Liling because she, out of character, decided to fight Bai Meizhen's Peer and believed that she will win?

Because, let me tell you my opinion: that sounds incredibly ass-backwards.

Like. Ho-boy. You can't claim "character growth" when the action that caused it in the first place is helluva out of character in the first place. It would be another thing if you believe that Ling Qi would win against Su Liling, but nooo, you want her to lose! Why? Because "character growth". Hell, you would be entirely correct if Ling Qi is someone who is cocky, someone cocksure, and someone overly confident who would abandon her friends for the sake of power, and that stuff.

Voting to Stay and Fight so that Ling Qi can have a "character growth" is incredibly, and unfairly punitive towards Ling Qi.

Because Ling Qi had/has lost.

Lots.
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Kairos123 said:
Yes? Did you not read the part where we failed the Elder's test and missed out on an irreplaceable opportunity? Sure we got a consolation prize of lessons with him, but that was because we did perfect in an unwinnable situation. The rolls for that were amazing enough to impress even the Elder. However, it was clearly that, a consolation prize.

I don't buy into that being an failure without meaning. It had a great deal of consequence, both in story and out. Nor was it lacking in character growth. Just look at Xiulan's face or how Ling Qi forced herself to drop her flute so a similar situation would not happen again.

Then there is the miscommunication with Meizhan that spiralled into weeks of emotional hurt. Or the time she got stabbed so hard she had a spirit vision and the only reason she wasn't crippled was her side won and sold everything to pay for recovery.

There have been other failures we've avoided the consequences of (hopefully including this one), however that didn't happen because the narrative bent over backwards. It's because people played to the best of their ability and did so with intelligent planning. If she rofl-stomped Ji Rong after taunting him or otherwise did stupid shit without consequence, I think your argument would be a lot stronger.

It's one thing to say you want to see another failure. I disagree with the mindset we need to force one instead of letting it happen naturally, but you do you. Don't have a problem with it. Though I do take issue with questioning if there has never been meaningful failures, or the implication that failures need to be deep and impactful to have meaning or elicit change.
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Ayashi said:
So you point is, she should stay and fight so she loses, get her dress taken, probably some other stuff (ie: flute!) and maybe crippled. Oh, and lets not forget whom ever else that's hanging around waiting to cash in on Ling Qi's defeat too.
Right, brilliant move that.
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Goodness. I specifically didn't address any individuals, any arguments for anything else, and kept my vote explanation as "me" focused as possible to avoid being dogpiled for having an unpopular opinion.

And... it didn't matter.

This is disappointing. I stand by what I said and why I voted for it, without needing to tear down other people's reasons for voting the way they did. I respect everyone who has a different opinion than my own, appreciate those who happen to feel similarly, and merely wanted to give more than just a flat vote with no reasoning. Tsk.

I'll remember this for the future votes, then!
 
Lazy Minx said:
Art of Bai Meizhan, put my points in Strength, unless anyone has a better idea.
@yrsillar
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First off, really nice art. You did a good job blending the human and snake features together into something mildly unsettling, but very much organic.

Second, if you're taking suggestions, I would suggest Power. It helps resist dispels, and it helps with most offensive spirit arts. But I can't say for certain, and Strength is not a bad idea. Maybe Expression to help with FVM dice? Or pump them into Zhengui?
 
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Pandemonious Ivy said:
This is disappointing. I stand by what I said and why I voted for it, without needing to tear down other people's reasons for voting the way they did. I respect everyone who has a different opinion than my own, appreciate those who happen to feel similarly, and merely wanted to give more than just a flat vote with no reasoning. Tsk.
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Okay, while I sympathise with you, This part feels way too self gratifying man.
 
Lazy Minx said:
Art of Bai Meizhan, put my points in Strength, unless anyone has a better idea.
@yrsillar
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Firstly, very nice art.

Secondly, whilst they're your points you did ask for suggestions:
You could put them into Zhengui as I think that is an option.
I put about 4 points into ossuary scout before this week began so that shouldn't be too far from levelling if you want that (and this may eventually lead to being able to upgrade the formations skill again).
Stamina is at 21/25 and might level up this week with your points as this looks like it might provoke an extended chase scene (thus increasing stamina).
 
Floom said:
First off, really nice art. You did a good job blending the human and snake features together into something mildly unsettling, but very much organic.

Second, if you're taking suggestion, I would suggest Power. It helps resist dispels, and it helps with most offensive spirit arts. But I can't say for certain, and Strength is not a bad idea. Maybe Expression to help with FVM dice? Or pump them into Zhengui?
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Ah, that's what Power does. I guess. I still have no idea what it does in full, but here we are.

Yeangst said:
Possibly not getting fucked in this confrontation?
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I... don't think that's a skill I can put points into.
 
Lazy Minx said:
That good shit.
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Hot damn, that is an adorable picture. Excellent job.

The only criticism I can offer is that the legs are a bit weird. The feet are angled oddly, with the leg itself having wonky proportions, and the lack of one having clear prominence makes it more obvious.

No clue about where to spend your stuff. Don't even know how omake rewards work so all I can offer is a like and some criticism.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
This is disappointing. I stand by what I said and why I voted for it, without needing to tear down other people's reasons for voting the way they did. I respect everyone who has a different opinion than my own, appreciate those who happen to feel similarly, and merely wanted to give more than just a flat vote with no reasoning. Tsk.

I'll remember this for the future votes, then!
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Jolly good? See that you do?

If you're going to justify your opinion at length with a controversial claim, one you know is controversial, and you don't expect that to provoke discussion and an argument from the opposing side you're clearly new to the internet.

If you don't want to discuss the issue, justifying it is rather pointless.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
This is disappointing. I stand by what I said and why I voted for it, without needing to tear down other people's reasons for voting the way they did. I respect everyone who has a different opinion than my own, appreciate those who happen to feel similarly, and merely wanted to give more than just a flat vote with no reasoning. Tsk.
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Debating whether or not certain arguments are justified and should convince other people is kind of what vote discussion is supposed to be about.

We don't just stand around all sharing our feelings and not debating or discussing anything.
 
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