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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Lazy Minx said:
Addressing all of you at the same time by saying this: First, all of you are underestimating our combat ability greatly. And, even if you aren't this should be a lesson to make sure that we're able to hold our own.
Second, we should absolutely stop fucking running to someone's skirt to defend us, regardless of losing or not. If we lose the dress, it's worth it to actually stand on our own two.
Last, Zequing likes us, but she does not think like us. She is not likely to help us and going up to her is just going to cause her to drop us by forcing her to see us as weak.
And, she is the type of spirit that disdains weakness, if you haven't noticed. And, that was 100% part of the lesson we learned last time as well. Do you not remember her being all, "If he dies, he dies." with us when we questioned her?
Do you not remember that being part of what shook Ling up, and why she was so against going back up there, because she felt Zequing didn't care if she killed us trying to make her stronger?
Also, we haven't been back in a week. We have no idea how Zequing herself would feel about us and our reaction. She could be dismissaful of us for treating her help this way after almost two weeks of stewing on your actions.
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1) You are hilariously underestimating Sun Liling combat ability if you think that Ling Qi can beat both her and her spirit by her lonesome. That's not even mentioning Sun Liling combat focus and her being in the third realm for 12 weeks.
2) Why would Ling Qi give a fuck about hiding? Her resolve was about not letting go of her friends not rushing in to hopeless fights. As Zhou said, Ling should pick her fights intelligently. Ling already mentioned she doesn't care about honor, and the desire to stand up and get beaten for the moral high ground isn't in character for Ling Qi.
3) Zeqing absolutely cares about Ling Qi to an extant. Otherwise she wouldn't repeatedly spend her time with Ling Qi and throw her into the blizzard in her misguided attempt to help. Ling Qi was shook because Zeqing was being friendly and Ling didn't forsee Zeqing throwing her into the blizzard without warning because spirits have trouble into humans. And to your last point, Zeqing is free only once every other week, Ling has taken steps to apologize as soon as she was able.
 
Lazy Minx said:
Addressing all of you at the same time by saying this: First, all of you are underestimating our combat ability greatly. And, even if you aren't this should be a lesson to make sure that we're able to hold our own.
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You think we can take a rich cultivator above our level specialized in 1vs1? I admire your chutzpah but doubt your ... conclusions ...
Ling Qi is a party buffer, a good one, rapidly tilting the battles in which we have fought as we enhance allies.
This does not translate to 1vs1. At all.
 
Lazy Minx said:
Second, we should absolutely stop fucking running to someone's skirt to defend us, regardless of losing or not. If we lose the dress, it's worth it to actually stand on our own two.
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You assume the dress will be all thats taken by the Social Darwinist Blood Knight who explicitly has had enough of our shit.

If it was someone else trying to 1v1 us, I'd be onboard. If it was Zhang, i'd be onboard.

Not this person, who is a peer to our OP bestie who we'd still likely lose to.

Lazy Minx said:
And, she is the type of spirit that disdains weakness, if you haven't noticed. And, that was 100% part of the lesson we learned last time as well. Do you not remember her being all, "If he dies, he dies." with us when we questioned her?
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That was explicitly because she thinks that freezing to death in a snowstorm is the most inspiring thing she knows. You seem to be confusing knowable with uncaring. She's not. Note that she was more confused by us being miffed at the possibility of dying than 'Meh, so what?'. Not to mention she thought she was helping us out.

Lazy Minx said:
Do you not remember that being part of what shook Ling up, and why she was so against going back up there, because she felt Zequing didn't care if she killed us trying to make her stronger?
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Uh, no? Qi Explicitly stated she'd probably still have taken it had she been asked first. Qi has a problem with people not giving her a choice, but she'd still have taken it.

Lazy Minx said:
Also, we haven't been back in a week. We have no idea how Zequing herself would feel about us and our reaction. She could be dismissaful of us for treating her help this way after almost two weeks of stewing on your actions.
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Honestly, she was more confused than angry or hurt. She might be wondering if we're upset or something, but I don't think she's angry.

Lazy Minx said:
Another benefit of staying to fight is right there in the wording of the vote. "We're not weak anymore."
I feel like if we keep running we'll never stand and fight. Ever. And, honestly, that's incredibly disheartening for this quest and for Ling Qi as a person.
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Again, if this were literally anyone else, i'd agree, and that'd be great. I'd be all for some facepunching.

Given we're standing up against the person my mind categorises as 'Teen Genderbent Lu Bu', who literally crippled us last time, i disagree.
Floom said:
So if we don't stand and fight here, we'll never stand and fight? Despite having done so in the past? Meizhen's ambush, Thunderdomes 1, 2, and 3, the Trial fight with the Giant, all of that becomes undone with this single decision?
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We have, to be fair, played a more supporting role, not a direct fighter. But to say that we've run is just bs to be frank.
 
Floom said:
So if we don't stand and fight here, we'll never stand and fight? Despite having done so in the past? Meizhen's ambush, Thunderdomes 1, 2, and 3, the Trial fight with the Giant, all of that becomes undone with this single decision?
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drake_azathoth said:
...Are you forgetting the numerous times that Ling Qi decided to go out with her homie Gu Xiulan and start some shit with anyone she cared to, upperclassmen included? Or her numerous decisions to plunge head-first into situations that would likely mean a fight with superior foes? There's a difference between being brave and being stupid- outside of a shonen anime, when you decide to bring a knife to a gunfight to prove your bravery, it doesn't end well.
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We have statically run and 'avoided confrontation' more than we have actually stood up for ourselves and fought.
Look at every single one of the situations, lay them all out and tell me I'm wrong.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
 
Lazy Minx said:
Another benefit of staying to fight is right there in the wording of the vote. "We're not weak anymore."
I feel like if we keep running we'll never stand and fight. Ever. And, honestly, that's incredibly disheartening for this quest and for Ling Qi as a person.
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Why fight without a need to do so though?

Mind you, that said, I'm not all that unhappy with Ling Qi's chances in a fight with Sun Liling... if I thought it would be one-on-one. But the spirit makes it two-on-one, and this is not a "see who's better" duel, but "the administering of a lesson" - how far the lesson goes depending on how much Sun Liling sees Ling Qi as a danger to her. Last time she was willing to severely wound her (and destroyed her heirloom but mundane flute)... and there's no allies to take Ling Qi in to get healed up this time. And, of course, the harder the fight, the more Sun Liling knows about what Ling Qi can do - and the more of a threat she'll see her as.
 
Lazy Minx said:
We have statically run and 'avoided confrontation' more than we have actually stood up for ourselves and fought.
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Oh yes, because playing support is oh so cowardly and all problems must be solved by direct application of facepunch that proves that WE ARE A WOMAN!!1!

Except no.

We're not great in a duel, but we don't need to be. We're a trickster no matter what path we may take. We win not because we are more powerful than our foes, but because we know how to leverage our strengths. We have faced conflict. We are not cowards. We do not flinch from dangerous situations. But unlike some people *CoughFanYuCough* we do not treat every situation like its a straight up duel.

Case in point: Zhous challenge. Facing the Corpse worm. Subterfuge and tactical retreat was used, but we fought them and stood up to them.

Just because you run, doesn't mean you're always running away. Sometimes it's just running to where you've hidden your Beartraps.
 
Lazy Minx said:
We have statically run and 'avoided confrontation' more than we have actually stood up for ourselves and fought.
Look at every single one of the situations, lay them all out and tell me I'm wrong.
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Sure:
*Elder Zhou's first test, ambushed enemies
* Elder Zhou's second test, ambushed enemies
*Elder Zhou's third test, took a by
*Vent Golem, killed it
*Huang Da, fought him
*Hong Lin, fought
*Kang Ziaho's minions, fough
*Serpent treasure, fought all fights we could fight except daddy tortoise
*Moonfill, avoided tunnels
*Moonfill, played tag
*Thunderdom redux, fought
*Disappearance/investigation, fought and pushed on
* Growing Pains, talked to Chu Song, Fought, helped friends, retreated => neutral
* Dark Dreams, be hyper agressive all thorought.
* Infiltration of fortress, went there ourself

So yeah, you are wrong.
 
Lazy Minx said:
We have statically run and 'avoided confrontation' more than we have actually stood up for ourselves and fought.
Look at every single one of the situations, lay them all out and tell me I'm wrong.
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...Okay? You're wrong. I'm not sure how you could think you're right. Short of running from puppet boy's fortress and Sun Liling's compound when we were hilariously outnumbered, Ling Qi has never run away, often when she probably should have by most people's lights. Such as when facing someone of higher cultivation.

I would be delighted to learn about all these times we've run away when that would not have been incredibly stupid.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Yeah, this is probably the one outer disciple we would have the most trouble with. Bursty damage that ignores our tanking arts. No shame in avoiding this fight today.
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Annnd, this is the attitude, I dislike and want to stomp out of Ling Qi. I'm not saying we'll win. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I feel like we should stop trying to min-max and munchin our way through fights that are largely reliant on luck and the dice.
For all we know today could be an especially unlucky day for her and a lucky day for us. We won't know until we try and I have absolutely no problem with always pushing us to try.
And, to all the people pointing out how her's stronger than us and better suited for 1v1's, I am on record for not only pushing for us to solve that glaring hole in our foundation, but providing art to put points into the skills to do so as well.

In other words, I'm actually trying to do something about that.
 
Lazy Minx said:
We have statically run and 'avoided confrontation' more than we have actually stood up for ourselves and fought.
Look at every single one of the situations, lay them all out and tell me I'm wrong.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
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Everytime Ling Qi was by her lonesome and faced a superior opponent she decided to cut her losses and run rather than get beaten. By contrast, everytime Ling Qi has faced an opponent with ber friends by her side she fought to the bitter end.

Ling Qi doesn't care about superficial pride she has no problems retreating, but when the chips are down and her friends are in peril she will attempt to move heaven and earth.

EDIT: Ling Qi not wanting to get her face punched in isn't a munchkin attitude. It's a realistic assessment of her combat ability. Ling Qi doesn't really have a dog in this fight, it's purely Liling attempt to crush a threat before it can grow larger. Unless you honestly think that Ling can win this fight despite the odds being stacked against her there is no point to fighting.
 
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Dieb said:
2) We were told that the Black Pool 1/4 successes go towards spiritual cultivation couldn't be overflowed to physical cultivation, but I for one assumed that they would overflow to qi anyway. In this quest there hasn't been any way to totally lose successes, at least as far as I know. They've always overflowed somewhere, at least to qi. I totally understand that the spiritual cultivation at peak overflowing to physical is a little cheesy, but going towards qi doesn't seem that way at all to me. Qi is supposed to be the big sink that you just throw tons of successes towards in this system; each success is cheap to get but each success does much less for you then any other thing you can cultivate. Of course it's obviously your decision, just wanted to ask about it.
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Yrsillar has said we can't get overflow from a stat at peak (Spiritual or Physical). I think it's so we can't cheese it by stacking tons of bonii on say Spiritual, then having them all overflow to Qi.
 
[X] Bound up the cliffs, heading for the black pool. Zeqing will be waiting, and Sun Liling is no match for her. It's a long run though.
 
Well, I suppose it is clear enough where this is going.

Dice, please this is not the time to roll four dice out of twenty, or one out of eight. Seriously, no shitty subpar rolls this time, we just got fucked up by one in Liling's fortress.
 
Lazy Minx said:
Annnd, this is the attitude, I dislike and want to stomp out of Ling Qi. I'm not saying we'll win. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I feel like we should stop trying to min-max and munchin our way through fights that are largely reliant on luck and the dice.
For all we know today could be an especially unlucky day for her and a lucky day for us. We won't know until we try and I have absolutely no problem with always pushing us to try.
And, to all the people pointing out how her's stronger than us and better suited for 1v1's, I am on record for not only pushing for us to solve that glaring hole in our foundation, but providing art to put points into the skills to do so as well.

In other words, I'm actually trying to do something about that.
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And if this wasn't, as stated TEENAGE GENDERBENT LU BU, I'd be on board.

Now do I want to learn some face punch and be more rounded? Fuck Yeah I do! I love punching things!

But just because Luck is in play doesn't mean "It could be anyones game". She's got a stacked deck right now. It's not just her in her element, it's us outside of ours. If we want to be able to actually get ready to face her for a Round 2? I'd rather keep our stuff, so we can stack the deck in our Favour as soon as this is over.
 
TheLastOne said:
Like, sometime you lose, which is an idea this thread really doesn't seem to like accepting.
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TheLastOne said:
Because we really don't want to lose, because it would cost, so lots of people would rather seriously raise the stakes rather then entertain the idea that we'll have to suffer the consequences of our actions.
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Oh hey, someone else noticed this.

Like, I just caught up only a handful of updates ago, so I'm not as immediately invested as everyone else. But Ling has never truly lost. Ever. Being outmatched by a teacher doesn't count. Fighting a doomed war in a simulation doesn't count. Training with a superior combatant who's a friend doesn't count.

When has she ever lost in a way that was meaningful? That was impactful?

For the purposes of a story, the protagonist has to eventually fail in order to gain some character growth. Unless the purpose of this is to showcase the effects of constant victory and, at worst, minor setbacks, in which case I'm hoping it's covered more in the future.

As it stands, I don't believe this is handling "what it's like to become a god" as well as "what it's like to embody victory", so the former doesn't preclude loss.

I would love to read a character shift in the MC that comes from being confronted with the consequences of her actions and deciding to deal with it honestly. If she wins, that means something. If she loses, it means more.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
 
Anyway, I do agree we tend to shy away from risky scenarios that aren't about protecting our friends, and often I am annoyed by it.... but that's because they often would give a lot if it goes well.

In this instance, it wouldn't even gives us a lot if we win the fight, and I don't believe we can win it.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
Oh hey, someone else noticed this.

Like, I just caught up only a handful of updates ago, so I'm not as immediately invested as everyone else. But Ling has never truly lost. Ever. Being outmatched by a teacher doesn't count. Fighting a doomed war in a simulation doesn't count. Training with a superior combatant who's a friend doesn't count.

When has she ever lost in a way that was meaningful? That was impactful?

For the purposes of a story, the protagonist has to eventually fail in order to gain some character growth. Unless the purpose of this is to showcase the effects of constant victory and, at worst, minor setbacks, in which case I'm hoping it's covered more in the future.

As it stands, I don't believe this is handling "what it's like to become a god" as well as "what it's like to embody victory", so the former doesn't preclude loss.

I would love to read a character shift in the MC that comes from being confronted with the consequences of her actions and deciding to deal with it honestly. If she wins, that means something. If she loses, it means more.

[X] ...Stay and fight. If she wants a duel she can have one. You aren't weak anymore.
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Whilst I think this is a terrible decision, I respect your reasons for doing so.

This, more than any other argument, has me tempted to switch votes...

Wait, did I actually vote?
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
As it stands, I don't believe this is handling "what it's like to become a god" as well as "what it's like to embody victory", so the former doesn't preclude loss.

I would love to read a character shift in the MC that comes from being confronted with the consequences of her actions and deciding to deal with it honestly. If she wins, that means something. If she loses, it means more.
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Firstly, one of the things I like about FoD is that Ling Qi is not a meathead who thinks that she has to beat all her enemies into submission. That's a defining characteristic of hers as opposed to many (though hardly all) xianxia protagonists. She will fight smart and yes she will pick her fights, avoiding losing or meaningless ones if she can. I certainly don't want to see that change.

'Becoming a god' and 'embodying victory' don't have to be defined by arrogance and stupidity, though I can see why some people would think that. The stupider gods do seem to get all the attention, don't they?

As for loss defining character growth, that's always been a rather stupid idea, but even if it's true it would be more interesting and true to character for Ling Qi to try to avoid said loss rather than uncharacteristically jump into it.
 
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Lazy Minx said:
Addressing all of you at the same time by saying this: First, all of you are underestimating our combat ability greatly. And, even if you aren't this should be a lesson to make sure that we're able to hold our own.
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No, we are not. Let's see what are Ling Qi stregths:

1: She can dodge really well. Shamefully, i am 100% sure Liling is even better at hitting.

2: She can soak lots damage, thanks to TRF and a great Qi pool. But again, Liling can deal perfect damage, so she can surpass this.

3: Our debuffs are so potent than they reach "save or get fucked" territory. But their accurancy is lagging behind a lot, to the point that we can't expect them to land unless Liling rolls the equivalent of a natural 1.

So no, trying to fight her head on is almost certainly a sure way to lose.
 
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