Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Waaait, the vision was set in the mountains?
Let me check the relevant passage:
Nothing about this explicitly says 'we're fighting among mountains.' I'm confused.PoptartProdigy said:
On the other hand, it explicitly says we are NOT fighting on the ocean, so ocean is still likely to be a place the dragon is NOT going.
[X] ...ocean. Just barely in view, you can see the western edge of the continent, and the water looks stunning. You wonder what all of the little islands look like in the winter.
The flip side of it is, there's really no reason for a ki user to be lacking economic support when they can fly and bench-press office buildings. Emotional support is a separate matter. On the other hand, the risks can't be that high or there wouldn't be such a thing as planets where the average member of the species has a high power level.
If it were me, I'd quietly retcon away the ability of people with power levels in, say, the thousands or tens of thousands to destroy planets, as opposed to merely scarring them up. I know that contradicts some Dragonball plot points, though.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
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- Away
reminder that the Saiyans were rare for having average members with PLs in the hundreds
and I highly doubt your average inhabitant of the galaxy that isn't a Saiyan has a PL over 100 now
fictionfan
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I expect that the median is under 100, but I expect that the average is over 100. Very high variation you see. Some very big statistical anomalies that really bring up the average.
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On the other hand, we now people with powerlevels that put the Ginyu Forces to shame popping up in what is implied to be a fairly weak group, which is likely lead by someone with a PL over a million since someone close to said leader is sure they'll win against us. And apparently, orbital defences that are a threat against such a group now exist, suggesting weaponry has reached the point it can meaningfully threaten strong Ki users.
And the Dragon awakening vision suggests their are beings in the galaxy it doesn't want to fight, when it can go up against four Golden Oozaru.
I would not discount the possibility that the average civilian PL is now 10,000 at this point.
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fictionfan
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I think they were worried about their ship beginning destroyed. Ki users are at their most vulnerable when on a space ship. At those that need air are.
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- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but the bare fact that this alien army has scouts considerably stronger than the Ginyu Force, and yet is running from something else, suggests that there are quite a lot of beings out there with power levels in the hundreds or single digit thousands. If "the first time someone with a power level of over a few thousand gets sufficiently depressed, the planet dies" was actually a thing, there wouldn't be any planets left.
Strictly speaking, we can't disprove this hypothesis, but it doesn't seem very likely to be true.
I think it more likely that while the average civilian power level is still low, the average power level of any given planet's elite defenders is up into six or seven digits depending on where you go. With true galaxy-bestriding figures that dominate affairs the way Freeza dominated the Milky Way back when Goku and Vegeta were young having power levels of nine or ten digits- hundreds of millions or single digit billions. There might be a few exceptions that go beyond even that.
So the vast majority of the population has no ki powers at all, but the ones who do are much stronger than was the norm Back In The Day, and correspondingly the higher level of competition means that would-be galactic overlords have to climb higher and train more ruthlessly to compete.
(Note that, for example, Freeza spent the vast majority of his time in a low-power form that used less than one percent of his full power, and didn't train very hard, because nothing in the galaxy could challenge him anymore. I'm pretty sure would no longer be the case, and that if Freeza were running something like the PTO today, he'd have been forced to train up his power level to compete with FPSS-level opponents, maybe even higher.
Mitsuba:
"Aaaand that's why I tried to rediscover the Nail Gun."
fictionfan
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"It's a bad a idea. The aliens are not actually a threat to us and we would much rather capture their ships. We currently only have one."
They only need to hold until they reach the atmosphere. Meaning whatever defences exist, they're good enough to prevent that from happening, while also destroying any equipment they have on them, such as a breather mask.
However, it's strongly implied the warriors are still Ki Mutants like in the olden days, not the product of training. Or at least not to the same degree.
The most logical explanation is that Ki Mutants have been breeding, passing on their strength, with their descendants mutating further or interbreeding for new, stronger bloodlines. At this point, selective pressure takes over, and the bloodlines spread fast, as any species that adopts new abilities or an increased PL to more of the population means that they get better odds of even stronger protectors/warriors/leaders, and less chance of being wiped out or enslaved.
However, training does seem to be at least some factor, and teaching the population has various benefits: less likely to die from accidents or as casualties in battle, their power means they can get more work done, and if a civilian doesn't develop their Ki, civilians that do manage to do so will out compete them.
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The idea is that if you want to punch a hole in a starship, you want something like the Makankosappo, which she's actually rather good at. That lets the air out, but may not hit anything important on the way through. Then again, it might- but the thing is, you can't actually capture a ship without some risk of damaging it. Sooner or later, you just have to accept that you may have to repair the ships to put them back in service.
If the ships turn out to be effective combatants (say, because somebody figured out how to build artificial ki beam weapons, a thought which occurred to Mitsuba), then disabling and capturing them is probably going to take something capable of penetrating the hull and detonating inside without vaporizing the whole ship the way a more indiscriminate blast tends to. That is where Nail Gun is supposed to come in.
Alternatively, the ships are the most valuable things the alien army owns, and they would strongly prefer for those ships not to be destroyed. Especially since if they lose the ships, they're trapped.
Alternatively to the alternative, the alien army may have many noncombatants or support personnel who are not themselves powerful enough to survive getting hit with a nuke or having the spaceship they're riding get blown up in low planetary orbit.
Either way, the ships being destroyed would be a very bad outcome, even if the warriors survive and wreak revenge on the planet below.
I am amenable to all of this.
That still leaves alternatives, such as equipping some of their fastest/strongest with equipment so they can breathe in space, if they don't have a technique/ability that lets them do that already, then fly in and wreck the defences. And while that does raise the possibility of being detected and the planets defenders protecting the defences, they've demonstrated stealth capabilities.
So, the most like situation is that the orbital defences are significantly tough enough to resist such a thing, and strong enough to repel the invaders, either entirely or until the cavalry arrives.
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I think the point is meandering a bit. In any event, I agree with your core conclusion that there almost certainly exist in the wider galaxy weapons that can threaten at least mid-ranking ki users (e.g. power levels in the tens or hundreds of thousands). The weapons may be too large and bulky to issue as infantry equipment, but I fully believe they exist.
After all, Doctor Gero was able to build fully mechanical androids that could fight on equal or superior terms with a super-saiyan. Even a much inferior version of that technology would be enough to make a pretty effective combat starship, given that there's a lot more room to put bulky equipment in a spaceship than inside a humanoid robot body.
After all, Doctor Gero was able to build fully mechanical androids that could fight on equal or superior terms with a super-saiyan. Even a much inferior version of that technology would be enough to make a pretty effective combat starship, given that there's a lot more room to put bulky equipment in a spaceship than inside a humanoid robot body.
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CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
One possibility I've considered is that destroying planets while under a certain PL could be more a matter of technique than power. Over a certain point you could just break the planet, but beneath it you need finesse and might turn the planet into a bomb wity no time indicator if you mess it up a bit.
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- Dual citizen of SV&SB
Freiza's mooks had those, I thought. Or are you talking about weapons actually worth a damn?
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- Somewhere I shouldn't be
Hey, those weapons were fine on anyone ~1 Radditz. Or below.
So, y'know, they could threaten our toddlers.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
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Yes.
I mean, in theory there's nothing stopping someone from basically building "Android Sixteen's right arm, only bolted to the side of a spaceship" and calling it a capital ship energy weapon. Well, except for "only Doctor Gero is smart enough to invent such a weapon." Which is clearly an obstacle.
But something even a small fraction as powerful, one one-hundredth the performance, would still be a pretty significant weapon on the scale of the power levels we're likely to be fighting the aliens at (e.g. Maya's)
fictionfan
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I am starting to think Gero must have had something extra. Just genius doesn't seem like enough. Are we sure he never got a wish on the dragon balls when no one was looking?
fictionfan
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This will be easier after we tell Maya.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Humans are the superscience group in the setting, Bulma was the first mortal to create a time travel device, Senbei created a device that can materialise objects based on what the user imagines. if you go into movies there's numerous unrelated groups either making super robots or cloning high power level fighters.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
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Maybe there was a wish in the past that is not mentioned in the story? The Dragon Balls were lying around for a long time.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
That's as likely as saying that every ability namekians have is because of dragon balls.