Fairly sure that they won't be doing much against big and scaly.
Dragon Ball: After the End
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We have no idea what is needed against the dragon. All the styles seemed to have been made to fight human shaped stuff.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I mean, we could hold it in place with a beam battle while the other saiyans pester it with kienzans and special beams canon. Or we could distract it so that dad hits it with his. Or coordinate via telepathy for mass solar flare. Or they can act as support/healers if we need a break from the fighting. Or we could have IT dedicated people to transport our strongest warriors for mass attack waves since beams add to each other. Or they can help with evacuation or push it around with shin kikohos.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Or throw four Golden Oozarus at it.
I mean, it's maybe probably most likely a kaiju of some sort.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I was working under the assumption wr would face it masqued. Though I don't know if the elders were practicing golden ape.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
If we can face it masqued then we are not really needed.
It triggered every single Seer on the planet. Unlikely to be a threat that can be beaten Masqued.
Also, I want to figure out a mass-transport version of Instant Transmission, and by mass-transport, I mean "teleport an entire planet".
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well it can teleport clothing so it should be possible.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
... Unless it's really tiny.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You know, it would be kind of awesome if we could somehow talk the giant dragon into not eating our planet without fighting. That would be very fun and everyone would be amazed.
...
From the point of view of the Garenhulder natives, going ape to fight a giant invading monster might actually be the optimal strategy. From their point of view, the whole event won't look like "aliens who look suspiciously like us killed the monster." It'll look like "Godzilla appeared mysteriously, Giant Yellow King Kong and his several cousins showed up equally mysteriously to kick his ass, then vanished without a trace, the end."
The problem is that from the point of view of people from the larger galaxy (including the alien scouts that are already here and the army that's coming soon and has nowhere else to go but here)... it's a dead giveaway and massive infohazard for us. Because they will know at least legends or rumors of the ancient saiyans, the tailed humanoids that achieved astounding power through emotion-fueled transformations and could turn into giant ragemonkeys.
There is also the risk that if we pour on enough power to kill the dragon, we may be detected across interstellar distances in the process and the Enemy might home in on that. But that may be an unavoidable scenario- if we have to trigger an existential risk N years down the line in order to avoid one right now, that may be our only option.
Basically, a lot of the contingency plans for fighting a mad Super-Saiyan Two apply, and the dragon is likely to be a bigger target.
There has probably never been a single Exile with greater motivation for intense training in the entire history of their culture. I strongly suspect that Jaffur's incentive to train and idea of a 'rigorous training schedule' exceeds even that of his distant progenitor Vegeta. It certainly matches it.
By the standards of a really committed but basically normal saiyan martial artist, we're probably still not training very hard... but we're training closer to hard.
If we have Perfect Multiform, it's a great idea.
Since "blond and glowy" form is strictly superior to "giant ragemonkey" even if you've got it fully trained and have a base power level of 375 million, most super-saiyans (possibly including the original Z-fighters in this timeline) simply never bothered to even try to attain the form. Once you know it's possible to go super-saiyan while in oozaru form, or vice versa, it's a straightforward exercise to actually do so. The only likely obstacle would be lack of a fully trained oozaru form, and that clearly only takes a year or two to fix.
So given that Berra knows Golden Oozaru is a thing, it's a safe bet that he can do it too. As can Yammar and Apra, and for that matter any prospective super-saiyan rebels we run into.
...
From the point of view of the Garenhulder natives, going ape to fight a giant invading monster might actually be the optimal strategy. From their point of view, the whole event won't look like "aliens who look suspiciously like us killed the monster." It'll look like "Godzilla appeared mysteriously, Giant Yellow King Kong and his several cousins showed up equally mysteriously to kick his ass, then vanished without a trace, the end."
The problem is that from the point of view of people from the larger galaxy (including the alien scouts that are already here and the army that's coming soon and has nowhere else to go but here)... it's a dead giveaway and massive infohazard for us. Because they will know at least legends or rumors of the ancient saiyans, the tailed humanoids that achieved astounding power through emotion-fueled transformations and could turn into giant ragemonkeys.
There is also the risk that if we pour on enough power to kill the dragon, we may be detected across interstellar distances in the process and the Enemy might home in on that. But that may be an unavoidable scenario- if we have to trigger an existential risk N years down the line in order to avoid one right now, that may be our only option.
Massed barrages of Destructo Disks and Makankosappos might be helpful. And we know a lot of Exiles who train in Goku and Vegeta Style cross-train in Krillin Style a bit...
Basically, a lot of the contingency plans for fighting a mad Super-Saiyan Two apply, and the dragon is likely to be a bigger target.
Mato spent a significant amount of slacking off on training and, at a point of time early in the quest, had attained a power level only in the tens of thousands, as I recall. Now granted things might be different if he were the Scion, but it's hardly a certainty that he'd be a stronger warrior than Kakara by now. He almost certainly wouldn't share Kakara's other advantages.
Jaffur thinks we are slacking our training. Jaffur's idea of a "rigorous training schedule" is motivated by "I want to be strong enough to kill my father, a full power super saiyan with decades of experience, by the time I reach the age of twelve. Preferably ten. Eight would be nice. Nothing else matters, period."
There has probably never been a single Exile with greater motivation for intense training in the entire history of their culture. I strongly suspect that Jaffur's incentive to train and idea of a 'rigorous training schedule' exceeds even that of his distant progenitor Vegeta. It certainly matches it.
By the standards of a really committed but basically normal saiyan martial artist, we're probably still not training very hard... but we're training closer to hard.
If we lack Perfect Multiform this is likely to be counterproductive. Three or four giant golden ragemonkeys with power levels of 500 or 375 million each (1/3 and 1/4th of our 1.5 billion maximum in Golden Oozaru, respectively) aren't going to accomplish much that couldn't be accomplished by, say, Kakara, Berra, and Apra working together.
If we have Perfect Multiform, it's a great idea.
There's a line on Berra's character sheet for it, I think. What it comes down to is that in Poptart-canon, Golden Oozaru is trivially easy to access for any super saiyan, as long as they are aware that the form exists in the first place.
Since "blond and glowy" form is strictly superior to "giant ragemonkey" even if you've got it fully trained and have a base power level of 375 million, most super-saiyans (possibly including the original Z-fighters in this timeline) simply never bothered to even try to attain the form. Once you know it's possible to go super-saiyan while in oozaru form, or vice versa, it's a straightforward exercise to actually do so. The only likely obstacle would be lack of a fully trained oozaru form, and that clearly only takes a year or two to fix.
So given that Berra knows Golden Oozaru is a thing, it's a safe bet that he can do it too. As can Yammar and Apra, and for that matter any prospective super-saiyan rebels we run into.
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He was talking about the four free Super Saiyans.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ah.
Yes, that is a viable alternate interpretation of the comment, now that I think about it.
Yes, that is a viable alternate interpretation of the comment, now that I think about it.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
Point of order: it has been generations since a ragemonkey was seen, and the most well-known Saiyans in the galaxy never used that form. It's more likely a 'myth' than a 'known' at this point, considering that most of the legends about Saiyans will be regarding golden hair and huge appetites (for battle, too!).
That said, they did regularly ragemonkey while working for Frieza, so it likely isn't completely forgotten. Just eclipsed, like so much else in history, by hair dye.
Oozaru is fairly well documented Saiysn feature though?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Next year, I'm leaning towards 2 actions for PM and also spending an action searching for the dragon. We can avoid the Masque issue entirely if we go out and fight it instead of waiting for it to arrive.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, it's probably unique to saiyans. And while most individual aliens have forgotten, the unrelenting and powerful Enemy with his commitment to the utter destruction of the saiyan race has not.
So if any of our new alien 'friends' gets on Space Twitter and goes "OMG there were giant ragemonkeys on Garenhuld," we have a problem. Just wanted to mention it.
Bear in mind:
1) Perfect Multiform may or may not be two actions away from success; if it isn't, doubling down could be very counterproductive. I favor a consistent 'one per year' guideline.
2) From the sound of it, the alien army arrives either at the very end of this year, or during next year. We may be quite busy during next year and things may disrupt our plans. Particularly our plans to quietly research and train. We may also have to spend actions on damage control from the aftereffects of whatever Dandeer does to us this year, which is likely to be pretty significant one way or another.
If we were to go out hunting for the dragon, we should probably figure out when we expect the dragon to arrive (as of this moment we don't know). If the dragon arrives in five years we have different plans and priorities than if it arrives in one.
And it might be considerably easier to do so after we deal with the aliens; with luck we can either capture or convince them to share spacecraft.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Using Machine Sensing as a guideline, the absolute minimum number of actions required to reach a reasonable possibility of success is 3 actions. Then, add more onto that on the basis that we unlocked Elite Ki Sensing on our own, rather than working-to-unlock it.
I don't think a single action increase will be enough to obtain it, but I think it's a big enough deal that increasing to 2 actions per year and getting it in ~3 years instead of ~5-6 is worthwhile.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I assume you mean Ki Manipulation, but that's not a bad goal. Overall, I do agree we haven't put enough into training this year, even if Jaffur's opinion on how much training is "enough" likely doesn't line up with my own.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
They'll get over it. Or they won't, and we'll have burned three sets of bridges for no gain. Either/or.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I don't think Kakara has committed a gaffe beyond the power of her Communications skills to overcome. Remember Poptart's comment that she could fairly easily wrap the boys around her finger if she were really trying. They don't hate her, it's just an awkward moment and they're both cranky, unhappy individuals.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
And it came when they were at their lowest social energy.
They probably regret that they blew up like that.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
@PoptartProdigy : What is the difference between ki control and ki manipulation?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Ki control is how much you can regulate thepower you are using and manipulatiob how you can use your ki, I think? So control would be how much wastage, how fast you can raise it andhow well hide it while manipulation is to use techniques.