Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

As i assume someone else has already pointed out, seing how i am abit late:

He is immune to precog. The Simmurg only sees the world with precog and post cog. He is literaly invisible. She can only react to things he has already altered. He doesn't need to hide, she can only hit him with wide range swats
Well no she can't see him at all, she can see the after effects of what he has done, not who has done it or who will do it.
She is blind to him, he doesn't exist to her at all, Fiat backed means even when seeing how those she can see react that she still can't perceive him at all.
 
Edit: Tybalt is also theoretically copyable, but trying anything like that on the actual God of War has low enough odds of success to basically ignore. It would also just end up with an evil but non-devine Felyne if it worked.

Also, the clone may not inherit Tybalt's ability to be treated based on merit meaning everyone would be shocked at how unnatural the clone is in comparison with the normal parahuman known as Kataklysm.
 
I realise that some people will take this as me being an arse to our Lord and Saviour, who works very hard to pump out quality content for us, but I do just mean this as a joke:

It's quite a shame that we'll all be dead of old age before we actually get into the Summit.
 
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Well no she can't see him at all, she can see the after effects of what he has done, not who has done it or who will do it.
She is blind to him, he doesn't exist to her at all, Fiat backed means even when seeing how those she can see react that she still can't perceive him at all.
right, that is what i meant: She can't see him, and has to target "General area where something isn't right"
 
I have to say I find Lisa very annoying and unlikable in this chapter. Between equating kindness with threats of death and torture, to her constant derision of Joe, idiot with gods like powers, Lisa is presenting as an extremely messed up and unpleasant person.

I also find it frustrating how she seems to act as if Joe is some unpredictable psychopath. Not just because its untrue, but because she shouldn't be so surprised by Joe. Joe's values and character haven't really changed. It should be easy for her to figure out how Joe would react to any specific situation, or at least how he would want to react. What is unpredictable is his available choices. Lisa can't predict what abilities or capacities Joe has available, so the exact response to any situation is impossible to predict, but the kind of response he would have should be obvious to her. Maybe in the beginning when Joe's power levels were low enough that his choices were constrained, but by thus point she should just be ignoring any question of capability and just working off of underlying values and character.
 
Also can I just say, holy shit this chapter!!!! I literally said I was hoping for Jozef to become more active, and here we fucking go!!!!!! I really hope Joe tries to solve the crime problem in the docks through just being more open about his assistance to relief efforts: High quality food items, clothing, etc. No more weird retro stuff, just great quality stuff for the docks. Possibly Apeiron digging out the dust deposits, patrolling in stealth, clearing rubble and doing minor repairs to secure structural integrity.
Imagine Joe setting up a mantic circuit around the docks via the sewers, making the docks more livable.
Unironically hoping Joe goes "warlord" on the Docks. Would be pretty great.
 
He is immune to precog. The Simmurg only sees the world with precog and post cog. He is literaly invisible. She can only react to things he has already altered. He doesn't need to hide, she can only hit him with wide range swats
right, that is what i meant: She can't see him, and has to target "General area where something isn't right"

I mean, blind is sort of how Simmy fights ALL THE TIME though. This is an extra level of blindness, sure, but she's uniquely suited to combating an oponent she cannot directly observe.
Joe's going to throw a wrench in any long term plots, but I wouldn't count Simmy out in a straight fight.

Edit, a quote from the wiki:
"It's not that easy. She knows she'll be blind, here and there. She collects and stacks the pieces. At a certain point, she's got so many factors on her side she can make blind moves and still win. That's where she's at now. There's no king for us to take, no weak point to capitalize on, no silver bullet or special trick," Tattletale said. - Last 20.6"
 
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This part, right here? Prime omake fuel. If I get inspiration then I just might write one myself.

It also inspires a question to mind.

What's the funniest worm parahuman to stick Joe in the costume and life of?

I'm not so much into the idea of healing monster evil cloner girl. Sure, that's something Joe might do, but really? She's a rather mind bendingly bad master. Her various team mates wouldn't make her look good or worth saving. Finding out that they were more than willing to stand by Coil for room and board will instantly make him not care about them so much. They are mainly adults that chose that path.

Her unhealed is a major threat.

Of course, healing her doesn't mean leaving her powers intact.

No wonder Aisha was screaming. Finding proof that your world is fiction would suck.

Personally I'd be like "It'd explain SO MUCH if we were a dark political comedy."
 
right, that is what i meant: She can't see him, and has to target "General area where something isn't right"
Well if she could see where was by seeing where he wasn't then it wouldn't be Fiat , if it wasn't Fiat I would agree with you and it might be possible that is the route Lord is going, but the nature of Fiat backed items are that you can't get around them no matter what.
 
Joe's current costume now no longer provides full coverage since part of his face is exposed. Though I wonder if with all the intent-loaded magic and divinity stuff of his gear and costume would protect Joe from unwanted physical contact and dangerous touch base power use.

Victor is confirmed going to be there by WoG since he's the Empire's thinker who's there to read people.

On Victor's skill stealing on Joe:
Victor would be able to steal any skill that Joe could teach to someone else. FMA alchemy is the most notable, but a lot of advanced technical or martial arts knowledge could technically be stolen. Anything that Joe could not impart to another person through non-supernatural means could not be stolen. "Stolen" in this case mean copied, as Victor needs extensive amounts of draining to actually do permanent damage to someone's ability to use the skill. Otherwise it recovers quickly. Joe has a number of ways of defending against this effect including magical wards that protect against parahuman effects, his own non-conventional biology, and a certain amount of resilience that comes from being a demigod. The pin only blocks mind reading, which doesn't cover Victor's effect, though the Mental Fortress perk would negate it.

Really, Joe's best defense is the fact that he has sensors that can detect magic, and thus parahuman powers. Victor's power works on a number of paths. Part of it triggers on proximity, but other factors like eye contact, physical contact, or Victor actively focusing on a target amplify the effect. The thing is that the nature and limitations of his power aren't well known, so Victor can usually avoid notice by keeping things at the passive proximity level which just skims random abilities off people in the area, not taking enough to be noticed. Joe will know the second Victor's power is active and will be able to see the intensity shift based of the other factors. Victor wouldn't have any time to passively acquire skills because Joe would know right away.

The complication is that Kaiser would want Victor at the meeting both as a show of strength and because he is the strongest thinker in the Empire. He needs to have Victor in the room to get a read on people, using stolen body language analysis, phycology knowledge, and other perception skills. It's a lesser version of the same reason Coil needs Tattletale to be present. The assumption would be that Victor wouldn't be using his power on anyone, at least not to the point they can notice. Joe's ability to detect something as broad as parahuman powers in general is unprecedented, so they're not likely to account for him picking up the passive drain. When it gets down to it, using a power like that at a place like Somer's Rock is grounds for immediate execution. Joe would need to reveal his scanning technology in the process, but the result would be Kaiser needing to placate not just Joe but every slighted party at the meeting.

Why would Joe need to reveal his scanning technology in the process of calling out Victor? He's Apeiron the Enigmatic Artificer he can just tell Victor to stop or else gain his ire.
The E88 is basically banking on the argument that a direct confrontation with them would be too much of a drag even for someone like Apeiron, though considering that torture and mutilation of "Subhumans" are part of their recruitment that might not even be enough given Apeiron's Stance on such extremes. Additionally the presence of the complete Team makes a confrontation even less desirable.
 
I just want to say, Tattletail is literally saying the kindness of someone helping is equal to if not worse than someone actively and maliciously trying to control you, because it's 'harder to escape when you don't want to'. It seems like if she feels that if she isn't in control of everything and doesn't owe any 'debts' (real or just kindness) then she's trapped.

In fairness, she did basically experience Joe's healing power - and the accompanying lack of Thinker headache - as an opioid drug. And she then she briefly wanted to sell herself to him, in as many senses of the word as he would ask for, just so that he could keep her dosed with happy pills.

There are some SERIOUSLY uncomfortable parallels to Coil's relationship with Dinah there, and Lisa doesn't know that Joe won't have agency over her if she does ask for the good stuff. She's still under the impression that he'd have to regularly dose her with nanites and he could take her pain meds away at any time.

When in reality, if she would just stop fucking with him and allow herself to be vulnerable for once in her life, Joe totally has permanent solutions for her power problems on the table, and he doesn't want to be her babysitter any more than she wants to be his charge. Her cocky puppet master BS is keeping Joe from seeing how much pain she's really in, it's keeping him from empathizing with her enough to help her personally, and it's keeping him from being level with her about the things she needs to know in order to make good decisions about her working relationship with him.

There's something really sad about it all, and not in a simple "Lisa is afraid of being shown kindness" way.
 
(She was a teenager wasn't she when she killed Eden?)
That's actually why I can't really hate Contessa, just pity her. She wasn't a teenager. If I remember right, she was 6 years old when she learned how not just her Earth, but ALL Earths and the countless trillions at least would die if nothing changed.

Hell, the 2nd thing she did with her power, after making sure she would remember her Trigger Vision, was find a way to kill Eden, and had to make the choice to abandon her uncle, her only remaining living family member, and the rest of her village, because there was no path that resulted in her able to both save them and kill Eden. The first thing she learned was that even with her power she would need to sacrifice the few to save the may. (Side note, I subscribe to the headcanon that the 3rd Entity, Abaddon, was a saboteur and actually used PtV to set things up for the Thinker to crash land, Fortuna to get PtV and kill her, and then for the Warrior to be something that needs to be dealt with, leading to juicy conflict/data it could swing by later to collect.)

And no, it's not fanon that she is heavily dependent on her powers, its canon. She can function without them, but pretty much all the time she's running a Path constantly, which obviously has serious consequences in regards to her development and ability to grow as a person.
 
Considering Contessa was able to remove powers with a bullet and Joe just got maximum nanotechnology I could see him just taking powers away from his enemies. Short of breakers, Case 53s, Endbringers and Scion that's going to one hit KO most enemies.
I think he'll go beyond just the removal of powers, and literally use the opportunity to download the entirety of the Shard's knowledge base into his own computers for later perusal...some of which he'd be disappointed by (having already figured it out), others appalled with and a few others startled by.
 
It's interesting that Lisa's power isn't twigging that Aisha has a different relationship to the group because her relation to Joe is master-apprentice. Given that everyone but Tybalt has openly acted like they expect Aisha to succeed him if he dies, and act in his place when incapacitated, it's weird that doesnt come across in their dynamics.
The reality isn't that severe. A lot of it was Aisha's stress due to all that's happened and the pressure of expectations. She saw that everything would go to her if Joe died, but the Crew doesn't actually expect her to succeed him to the point of becoming the new leader or taking up the flag.

"Is it true that all of Joe's technology would go to Aisha if Joe died or is it just her own interpretation?":
It was Aisha's interpretation that the tech would go to her, and she wasn't happy about that. The reality would be something like the A.I.s and Garment managing what they could with Aisha providing advice and a bit of direction, but even that would be leagues above what she felt ready to handle.

Cat. Somewhat formal posture. Formal for a cat. Possibly military trained, high probability of service. Military cat. Intensely familiar with spear. Collapsed rifle in small of back, easily within reach. Cat has unique dynamic within group. Less deferential to Apeiron, some authority over other members of group. Second in command? Second cat in command? Feathers on head and tail biological, part of body. Lacks support structures or musculature. Possible parahuman mutation, possible manifestation of power. Parahuman cat. Paracat?
Did Tybalt do something with his Dodgeball perk power to make people lean into him being a cat rather than some changer/monstrous cape?

Coil (who until this moment had still thought Aperion had feared him
Coil no longer thinks it's because Joe's afraid of him. He thinks it's some part of his mad scientist thing.

On Coil's reaction to everything and his plans:
Coil's plans are still broadly the same, in that it's about pointing Apeiron at people he doesn't like. He still believes he has leverage in the Undersiders, and isn't completely wrong seeing as they are the only people who can reliably contact him for requests. Dinah's numbers have also stabilized since March was knocked out. Without her actively directing the ABB the range of her anti-tinker effect is miniscule. She only has numbers on Apeiron up to the point where he entered his workshop, but that's still confirming that he won't attack Coil. At this point Coil is probably considering it some Mad Scientist based psychological limitation rather than the cowardice he originally assumed.

Coil also has the Travelers and he doomsday scenario that Noelle represents if someone forces his hand. Coil's effective access to Apeiron is a major factor in his leverage on the Travelers. They don't like working in a city as hot as Brockton Bay, but are willing to endure it for the possibility of help for Noelle.

Tetra might be copyable. An evil Life Fiber clone would be a world-ending event if it weren't trivially controllable by Garment.
Life Fibers are too out of context to be cloned.

On if Noelle can clone Tetra:
This is something I'm divided on. Life fibers can be genetically altered, so they should be able to be cloned. At the same time, they are such an unusual lifeform I am inclined to believe that Noel's shard wouldn't know what to do with them. Noelle can clone animals and insects, but isn't cloning viruses or fungal spores. It also assumes that there is some kind of evolved form that the shard would be able to shift the life fibers into, and that doesn't make sense with the fibers being all about evolution themselves. I would say the fibers are too out of context for Noelle to do anything with them.

As i assume someone else has already pointed out, seing how i am abit late:

He is immune to precog. The Simmurg only sees the world with precog and post cog. He is literaly invisible. She can only react to things he has already altered. He doesn't need to hide, she can only hit him with wide range swats
Well no she can't see him at all, she can see the after effects of what he has done, not who has done it or who will do it.
She is blind to him, he doesn't exist to her at all, Fiat backed means even when seeing how those she can see react that she still can't perceive him at all.
right, that is what i meant: She can't see him, and has to target "General area where something isn't right"
Inbetween is saying that Joe's mystic codes and OCP defenses are against pre-cog. Not post-cog so she can use that to "see" him and his location/actions in a general sense by looking at the immediate past. She'd need to target his general area.

Why would Joe need to reveal his scanning technology in the process of calling out Victor? He's Apeiron the Enigmatic Artificer he can just tell Victor to stop or else gain his ire.
The E88 is basically banking on the argument that a direct confrontation with them would be too much of a drag even for someone like Apeiron, though considering that torture and mutilation of "Subhumans" are part of their recruitment that might not even be enough given Apeiron's Stance on such extremes. Additionally the presence of the complete Team makes a confrontation even less desirable.
I mean, that's WoG and Apeiron would be accusing Victor and therefore the Empire, a gang major faction, that they broke the truce. There's no way Kaiser is gonna just accept Apeiron's word even if others are. He has to at least try to find a way out due what the consequences of breaking the truce is. Breaking the truce means pissing off more than just Apeiron. Not to mention others would be curious and concerned about Apeiron sensing power use.

I have to say I find Lisa very annoying and unlikable in this chapter. Between equating kindness with threats of death and torture, to her constant derision of Joe, idiot with gods like powers, Lisa is presenting as an extremely messed up and unpleasant person.

I also find it frustrating how she seems to act as if Joe is some unpredictable psychopath. Not just because its untrue, but because she shouldn't be so surprised by Joe. Joe's values and character haven't really changed. It should be easy for her to figure out how Joe would react to any specific situation, or at least how he would want to react. What is unpredictable is his available choices. Lisa can't predict what abilities or capacities Joe has available, so the exact response to any situation is impossible to predict, but the kind of response he would have should be obvious to her. Maybe in the beginning when Joe's power levels were low enough that his choices were constrained, but by thus point she should just be ignoring any question of capability and just working off of underlying values and character.
To be fair, I don't think she actually equates them. She knows there's a difference. It's more that she equates the feelings of how those things have impacted her and made her feel trapped. It's more that she just doesn't know how to deal with kindness. I also don't think she actually sees Joe as unpredictable psychopath or some irresponsible person who just does what he want and coasts through waiting for his to power build up. It's just her frustrations with the situation.

I was also a bit upset with that "well-intentioned idiot with gods like powers" line and her other thoughts of him being someone doing things with reckless abandon. I get her frustration but the main reckless thing was just him healing Panacea and that was more from being a new cape and him trusting the PRT handling his actions, intentions, warnings and Thinker predictions competently and professionally. Since then, Joe has done a lot of thinking and worries a lot about the consequences of his actions and abilities. Joe also has a bigger perspective and reasonings behind his actions that Lisa doesn't know of/have.
 
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Well, I for one am excited for the new Tinker!Aisha. Not only has she picked up the equivalent of a few doctorates, but now she can become a better Armsmaster.


Tetra might be copyable. An evil Life Fiber clone would be a world-ending event if it weren't trivially controllable by Garment.

Edit: Tybalt is also theoretically copyable, but trying anything like that on the actual God of War has low enough odds of success to basically ignore. It would also just end up with an evil but non-divine Felyne if it worked.
According to WOG, the only things from the forge which can be copied are abilities which work as knowledge and can be taught to others. (Like FMA alchemy)

So Tybalt being copied would give commando cats as the resulting clones, no divine powers or joequipment.

I'm not even sure if tetra can be copied since the only reason she can even exist is cuz fiat is a thing.
 
That's actually why I can't really hate Contessa, just pity her. She wasn't a teenager. If I remember right, she was 6 years old when she learned how not just her Earth, but ALL Earths and the countless trillions at least would die if nothing changed.

Hell, the 2nd thing she did with her power, after making sure she would remember her Trigger Vision, was find a way to kill Eden, and had to make the choice to abandon her uncle, her only remaining living family member, and the rest of her village, because there was no path that resulted in her able to both save them and kill Eden. The first thing she learned was that even with her power she would need to sacrifice the few to save the may. (Side note, I subscribe to the headcanon that the 3rd Entity, Abaddon, was a saboteur and actually used PtV to set things up for the Thinker to crash land, Fortuna to get PtV and kill her, and then for the Warrior to be something that needs to be dealt with, leading to juicy conflict/data it could swing by later to collect.)

And no, it's not fanon that she is heavily dependent on her powers, its canon. She can function without them, but pretty much all the time she's running a Path constantly, which obviously has serious consequences in regards to her development and ability to grow as a person.
Ah so even younger than I thought!
I know what you mean Contessa or Fortuna as she was known at the time is one of the few characters of worm that I can't dislike or hate, She is indeed someone in a bad situation trying her best to save everyone she can slowly realising that in order to do so she needs to commit to many incredibly evil acts, slowly getting more desperate and desperate as the Path To Victory directs her to her goal one which can only be paid in by the blood of many innocent and guilty people alike.
Unlike other cauldron members who were adults when they joined and therefore truly conscious of what exactly they were getting into which also slowly made their own morals get torn as they also got desperate, she was a kid who just wanted to save everyone from the two terrifying beings that had come to her world.
It is something that is incredibly pitiful, it is something you can understand but not something anyone could like, but then it's not supposed to be cauldron are a group of desperate people doing desperate things to save as many people as they can, slowly loses pieces of their souls and damning themselves without any second thoughts just to save those people.
They know what their doing is wrong, morally questionable at best and extremely distasteful, they were doing things incredibly evil all for the slightest increases to odds of humanity wining and saving as many earths along the way. It doesn't make it right and they know that, they went into it knowing that and it isn't something heroic cause their not heroes there a group of desperate people doing desperate things.

Sort of went of on a tangent there 😅 but yeah It is something I dislike heavily but it is something I can understand and definitely something I feel pity for.
 
This is so fantastic! We will finally enter the arc finale with a determined Apeiron. Roust really picked a good pov and handler her view fantastic.
I both wrong and right on many things regarding Tattletale but her flaws and character boons really shone through her in this chapter. It was really good.
 
According to WOG, the only things from the forge which can be copied are abilities which work as knowledge and can be taught to others. (Like FMA alchemy)

So Tybalt being copied would give commando cats as the resulting clones, no divine powers or joequipment.

I'm not even sure if tetra can be copied since the only reason she can even exist is cuz fiat is a thing.
Ty might even think that they where funny, as he could use his evil highly trained clones for a light no power spar
 
So Tybalt being copied would give commando cats as the resulting clones, no divine powers or joequipment.

I'm not even sure if tetra can be copied since the only reason she can even exist is cuz fiat is a thing.

Ty might even think that they where funny, as he could use his evil highly trained clones for a light no power spar

If Kataklysm kills the clone cats and Apeiron helps him collect the souls it would allow Tybalt to have Catastrophic Clowder of Cats as a personal army specializing in Combined Arms Training and Strategy.
 
It doesn't stop people from noticing that he's a cat. They just don't judge him based on that fact.
He's a cat. So what? It's no big deal.
Yeah, but why does Lisa read him as a parahuman cat instead of assuming he's a changer or monsterous cape who has a form very similar to a cat? She first reads him as a cat then one with military training then reads his feathers as being from a parahuman power then concluded he was a parahuman cat when there was also the possible angle of her assuming he was a parahuman from the very start. Like, it seems like she saw him as a cat from the start. Despite walking on two front legs, wearing gear and having thumbs. Did she think he was a biotinkered project?

I feel like when she first saw him, she leap to the bias of his appearance and concluded he was cat which is something I thought the Dodgeball perk could do since it doesn't just eliminate bias but amplify select ones.
 
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The meeting starts:
Apeiron: I bet you all wonder why I gathered you here.
Kaiser: But you didn't. This meet-
Apeiron: It's to introduce you all to my family!
Everyone: What?
Apeiron: On my right we have Tybalt The Cat! He's my brother, a demigod of war, and a cat.
Apeiron: On my shoulder, Tetra! She's a half alien parasite, half my daughter. Isn't she cute?
Apeiron: On her hand, Skitter! My... I don't know, but it's from eldritch dimension, and it's made from my flesh and my brain matter.
Apeiron: Here we have Survey. She's a mistress of knowledge and my AI daughter. I know she's beautiful, but if I catch you perving on her, I will deatomize you without killing you.
Apeiron: And here we have Fleet. He's my AI son, and he's an ultimate soldier and a Newtype. I know he's handsome, but if I catch you perving on him, I will take away your mouth, and I will make you want to scream. No doubble standards.
Apeiron: Right here, you have Matrix, my youngest. The subatomic perfectionist. If you call them "Gray Goo scenario", you will become "Gray Goo". "Golden Goo" is fine.
Apeiron: And last but no least, Lathe, my aprentice. Since I took her under my wing, she aquired three PhD's two new powers, and we're working on more of them. Again, no perving, or she'll make you forget you need to brethe.
Apeiron: Thank you for your attencion, and I hope we will get allong nicely in the future. This meeting as adjourned. *leaves*
Everyone: *stunned* ...wha?
 
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