Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[Transreal Cloud]

Premier Phase-smith (Starcraft – Protoss)

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As has been explained that jump was not in the original forge.

I can see the Forge as Troll in play by giving Miniaturization/Efficiency because just as Joe comes up with a subtle way of misdirecting the Simurgh and Dinah, this perk throws up a red flag and siren by blocking them in the face with it. Not subtle.

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WoG is that it synergizes rather than being a detriment. Allowing Joe to craft stuff that fools precogs without needing to worry about blocking away his true plans.

Looking at the Reference doc, there are 6 Star Trek skills left, and yeah, they do look rather important. Really, one could say that at least half of them are necessary foundational skills that Joe is sorely lacking and the other half are very nice to have in and of themselves.

Hmmm, yeah, I hope he lands 600 cp on that cluster and claims them all, espionage and communication especially.

Edit: For whoever updates the Reference doc, the Jumpchain docs and perk counts part is messed up a little.

Stargate SG-1 is listed twice (thankfully with the jumpdoc only posted once) while Symphogear's jumpdoc isn't posted at all.

I am not on the discord, chronic anxiety makes real time chat a nightmare for me, so there may be a reason for this, but I thought I would give a heads up.

Edit2: Thank you dilnu tsani for working toward fixing it

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You're welcome, what happened is that when adding either capstone or companion perks the jump names for SG-1 and symphogear were different and this you had two rows for each. The jump doc list is sadly the most fragile part of the spreadsheet at this point.

 

[MkZ]

By the way, how many words do we need for Joe to get all the powers?

 

[Gregory Crey]

By the way, how many words do we need for Joe to get all the powers?

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I wonder if an in story month with no time skips would do it. So far we are in week 3 or so, with the first week only granting 100 points because of a time skip from trigger to story start, I think?

So, around 4 weeks sounds about right, if there is no time skips imo.

Edit: around 3 times current story length, I guess.

 

[The Shallow]

So in a recent WOG LR reminded me that Tybalt understands perfect greek. Imagine Joe "consulting his team" in ancient greek, causing panic for the more well-learned individuals who recognize some words. Tybalt would be fine, but a Dupe might be needed to translate for the rest... doesn't need to be there in person of course.

I wonder if an in story month with no time skips would do it. So far we are in week 3 or so, with the first week only granting 100 points because of a time skip from trigger to story start, I think?

So, around 4 weeks sounds about right, if there is no time skips imo.

Edit: around 3 times current story length, I guess.

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The math was done a while ago, but that was before the capstone constellation, not to mention the reality constellation if it happens.

 

[Gregory Crey]

So, I was looking through wogs on AO3 and I found this:

When it comes to brands like Natural Puppy there are six 'slots' of clothing that can be worn: top, bottom, uniform, footwear, and accessory. Joe could get considerable defensive bonuses and status protection from a complete Natural Puppy outfit, but even a single item can provide benefits. Joe already has insane defense, so the real value here is status protection. Since this is a psy based effect it could be effective against parahuman effects that are usually very difficult to resist. For example, one of the Natural Puppy items are Black Jeans, described as "Simple black jeans are proven to make your legs look longer and slimmer. Perfect daily wear that can also be a bit more formal.". Joe could get the benefits of their effects just by incorporating that, or a similar item to into his costume. Alternately a single accessory could be used for bonuses as a less obvious element of his outfit. Also, since Joe is going to have to manufacture his own version of Natural Puppy clothing, Garment can probably come up with variations that work for Apeiron while still being 'on brand' enough to count.

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So, does this mean incorporating black pants and an accessory would make Joe immune/difficult to master/mentally affect since it is psy based?

 

[sonicyoash]

Hey, I just realized:

Infusionist (Monster Hunter) 600:
An art form thought lost to the ages and only tangentially unlocked in the rarest of armors, you have discovered the secret to infusing and uplifting weapondry and armor past the typical point even the best blacksmith are capable of taking it. Any weapon that doesn't have an element can be given one, and any weapon that already has one gets a great boost in power. Any armor that this is used on gets a great defensive boost, both to innate defensive capabilities and elemental resistances. This skill can apply to any weapon you have learned how to create - that blue lightsaber you made decades ago? Bet you didn't know it had a latent affinity for ice, did you? That high frequencey blade? It now has enough heat to cauterize as it cuts. This doesn't just apply to melee weapons either - with enough training and focus, you can create bowguns that natively shoot ice or lightning, or gunlances that fire heat beams instead of shells. The possibilities are only limited by your skill and the quality of what you have to work with.

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Does this mean that Taylor's Knife and Baton are both upgraded to be even more powerful than they were?

 

[Carrnage]

Hey, I just realized:

Does this mean that Taylor's Knife and Baton are both upgraded to be even more powerful than they were?

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Poor Aegis.

 

[Gregory Crey]

Does this mean that Taylor's Knife and Baton are both upgraded to be even more powerful than they were?

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I am not LordR, but the wording is "can be given one" and "that already has one", so I don't think the Undersider's knives (or other non-elemental weapons) will be auto-upgraded, but the elemental ones, like the earth rune baton of Taylor's and maybe Alec's taser (I forget if that one has an elemental effect to keep it charged), likely would.

Edit: actually, Taylor's knife has a wind rune doesn't it? Yeah, it too.

 

[Cheetored20]

I don't think it's retroactive, so it probably only applies to new stuff.

 

[The Shallow]

Yeah I think it's saying "you can give anything elemental shit, or upgrade existing elemental shit."
Wonder how that's going to effect his new batch of Dust, hopefully without Heretical Adaption? Dust is not likely to stay long enough for it to matter, and if it does it seems to create more dust before it gets shut down, which is bad.

 

[Mourning Glory]

I asked Lord a question about how Joe would do in Exalted a while ago, but I just realized that Garment in Exalted would probably make her at least the new God of Fashion, but then I remembered that Creation itself is a taspistry, that Garment could control, if Garment gets to the Weave of Fate she would be creations new lord.

All hail Divine Empress God Queen and Fashion Icon Garment, may none be fashion less in her presents less become a model for her Savage Summer Line up

 

[Crake]

Imagine trying to overthrow Her Most Fabulousness only to the fall to the temptation of the new Fall Catalog?

Or hearing all sorts of rumors of the terror her servants live under, only to get to her inner sanctum and find out the dark lord couldn't care less who rules Creation so long as you look good doing it.

You're not even the first godling to get this far, the last batch killed her last vizier and took over everything, it was just easier to say Garment was still in control!

 

[LoquaciousLizard]

Yeah I think it's saying "you can give anything elemental shit, or upgrade existing elemental shit."
Wonder how that's going to effect his new batch of Dust, hopefully without Heretical Adaption? Dust is not likely to stay long enough for it to matter, and if it does it seems to create more dust before it gets shut down, which is bad.

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So... Joe's noble phantasm let's him age things for basically no cost right? I wonder what happens when you combine that with heretical adaptation and infusionist and use it to make dust. I mean it'd probably be a bad idea, but really it can't be THAT bad, right?

Actually, I wonder what happens when you use a strong enough space warping effect, such as that of say... A Maximum power Heretical infused Ezzo +Gravity dust warhead with a bright spear tip on an endbringer. I mean, sure, parahuman space warping has difficulty because endbringers are both Manton effected and are really really dense, but It's probably easier to peel their skin off rather than nuking the planet's surface off trying to get to the core.

 

[Slayer 10321]

So... Joe's noble phantasm let's him age things for basically no cost right? I wonder what happens when you combine that with heretical adaptation and infusionist and use it to make dust. I mean it'd probably be a bad idea, but really it can't be THAT bad, right?

Actually, I wonder what happens when you use a strong enough space warping effect, such as that of say... A Maximum power Heretical infused Ezzo +Gravity dust warhead with a bright spear tip on an endbringer. I mean, sure, parahuman space warping has difficulty because endbringers are both Manton effected and are really really dense, but It's probably easier to peel their skin off rather than nuking the planet's surface off trying to get to the core.

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Are you trying to make a missile version of the Gravitational Beam Emitter from 'Blame!'? Because that sounds like something designed to ignore durability and render it as an irrelevant concern.

 

[LoquaciousLizard]

Are you trying to make a missile version of the Gravitational Beam Emitter from 'Blame!'? Because that sounds like something designed to ignore durability and render it as an irrelevant concern.

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I mean, it's more of an anti-gravity armor piercing warhead, and we don't really know how the GBE works, but yeah basically. I wouldn't really call it ignoring though, more like "violently moving out of the way" durability

 

[Crake]

The most productive way to deal with an Endbringer would be to herd it away from anything it can damage, destroy or kill until it gives up, with just enough superficial damage being dealt that it would be combat ineffective if it stopped dodging or deflecting attacks.

Effectively, give it three options, with something bad happening in either case. 1, it goes after infrastructure or individuals and it gets status effects that persist over time and damage. 2, it goes after the person attacking it, and is promptly stuck in a tarpit, unable to meaningfully disengage properly or do any damage to anything important. Or 3, it runs away, without really doing anything.

Much easier to accomplish than setting up the right godslaying weapon that won't backfire or hit the wrong thing, and I don't think there's a single Endbringer currently in play who could keep Joe and company at bay unless they prepare ahead of time or attack en masse.

Which would result in escalation and possibly defeat in detail. A rare occasion where if you've declared apocalyptic destruction upon an entire city, you are the one who discovers God exists, and that he's angry.

 

[AntaeusTheGiant]

I was checking out some of the excluded perks, trying to see if there were any worth begging LordR to devour the media necessary to include them. I ran across the Crafting Skills perk Blessing of Dundr from The Banner Saga. It gives a (probably mild by this time) boost to smithing, but also "can weave stories that can capture and entertain people on equal footing of the greatest bards."

Just imaging Jozef telling these long involved stories, in the style as written by LordR, within the story itself. That would be some Scheherazade level of stuff going on in no time. Has anybody played The Banner Saga? Looking at it on the Youtubes, it doesn't seem that exciting to be frank. But maybe it was just the person narrating his gameplay that was sub-interesting?

 

[sonicyoash]

@LordRoustabout
Hey, I was counting how many Points were earned vs spent on Perks for a thing I'm doing, and no matter how I do the math, it doesn't check out for this Perk.
In Chapter 18, it's stated that Workaholic (Sonic) 300 took "every ounce of reach I had to spare", which checks out with how things have gone so far, and every Perk purchased for the next couple chapters is affordable with the amount of points earned and times a Perk was missed, up until Civilian Equipment Package | Cyber-doctor Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) 300 Total. That was rolled and successfully bought when there should have been only 200 points available. Here's my table up to that point:

Spoiler: Roll Table

18 Regroup	Roll 75 (300): Time → Workaholic (Sonic The Hedgehog) (300-300) → (0) Roll 76 (100): Crafting → Miss → (100) Roll 77 (200): Resources and Durability → Element Analysis (Bomberman 64: The Second Attack) (200-100) → (100) Roll 78 (200): Quality → Unnatural Skill: Smith (Percy Jackson) (200-200) → (0) Roll 79 (100): Time → Miss → (100) Roll 80 (200): Vehicles → Miss → (200)
19 Restoration	Roll 81 (300): Size → Miss → (300) Roll 82 (400): Crafting → Armourer (Light of Terra DLC 5 A Sky Filled With Steel - Warhammer 40,000) (400-300) → (100) Roll 83 (200): Knowledge → Engineering (Teen Titans) (200-100) → (100) Roll 84 (200): Quality → Miss → (200) Roll 85 (300): Alchemy → Miss → (300) Roll 86 (400): Vehicles → Valuable Memories: the nature of memories (Big O) (400-300) → (100) Roll 87 (200): Crafting → Fingers of the North Star (Cave Story) (200-200) → (0) Roll 88 (100): Size → Miss → (100)
20 Offensive	Roll 89 (200): Quality → Miss → (200) Roll 90 (300): Magic → Miss → (300) Roll 91 (400): Crafting → Engineer (Super Mario RPG) (400-300) → (100) Roll 92 (200): Knowledge → Miss → (200) Roll 93 (300): Crafting → Master Craftsman (Forgotten Realms) (300-300) → (0)
21 Closing Moves	Roll 94 (100): Knowledge → Miss → (100) Roll 95 (200): Magic → Maliwan Intern (Borderlands) (200-200) → (0) Roll 96 (100): Alchemy → Miss → (100) Roll 97 (200): Toolkits → Workshop (Bubblegum Crisis) (200-100) + Apartment (Bubblegum Crisis) Free → (100) Roll 98 (200): Tollkits → Civilian Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (200-100) + Heirloom Weapon (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Cyber-doctor Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (100-200) + Medic Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Rocket Hammer (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Single Style - T'ai Chi Chuan (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) → (-100) Roll 99 (0): Quality → Tailor Made (Career Model) (0-100) → (-100)

Did I miss a roll somewhere? If not, and if my math checks out, what happened there, and was this ever addressed? I am confused by this.

 

[SiegfriedisOP]

@LordRoustabout
Hey, I was counting how many Points were earned vs spent on Perks for a thing I'm doing, and no matter how I do the math, it doesn't check out for this Perk.
In Chapter 18, it's stated that Workaholic (Sonic) 300 took "every ounce of reach I had to spare", which checks out with how things have gone so far, and every Perk purchased for the next couple chapters is affordable with the amount of points earned and times a Perk was missed, up until Civilian Equipment Package | Cyber-doctor Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) 300 Total. That was rolled and successfully bought when there should have been only 200 points available. Here's my table up to that point:

Spoiler: Roll Table

18 Regroup	Roll 75 (300): Time → Workaholic (Sonic The Hedgehog) (300-300) → (0) Roll 76 (100): Crafting → Miss → (100) Roll 77 (200): Resources and Durability → Element Analysis (Bomberman 64: The Second Attack) (200-100) → (100) Roll 78 (200): Quality → Unnatural Skill: Smith (Percy Jackson) (200-200) → (0) Roll 79 (100): Time → Miss → (100) Roll 80 (200): Vehicles → Miss → (200)
19 Restoration	Roll 81 (300): Size → Miss → (300) Roll 82 (400): Crafting → Armourer (Light of Terra DLC 5 A Sky Filled With Steel - Warhammer 40,000) (400-300) → (100) Roll 83 (200): Knowledge → Engineering (Teen Titans) (200-100) → (100) Roll 84 (200): Quality → Miss → (200) Roll 85 (300): Alchemy → Miss → (300) Roll 86 (400): Vehicles → Valuable Memories: the nature of memories (Big O) (400-300) → (100) Roll 87 (200): Crafting → Fingers of the North Star (Cave Story) (200-200) → (0) Roll 88 (100): Size → Miss → (100)
20 Offensive	Roll 89 (200): Quality → Miss → (200) Roll 90 (300): Magic → Miss → (300) Roll 91 (400): Crafting → Engineer (Super Mario RPG) (400-300) → (100) Roll 92 (200): Knowledge → Miss → (200) Roll 93 (300): Crafting → Master Craftsman (Forgotten Realms) (300-300) → (0)
21 Closing Moves	Roll 94 (100): Knowledge → Miss → (100) Roll 95 (200): Magic → Maliwan Intern (Borderlands) (200-200) → (0) Roll 96 (100): Alchemy → Miss → (100) Roll 97 (200): Toolkits → Workshop (Bubblegum Crisis) (200-100) + Apartment (Bubblegum Crisis) Free → (100) Roll 98 (200): Tollkits → Civilian Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (200-100) + Heirloom Weapon (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Cyber-doctor Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (100-200) + Medic Equipment Package (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Rocket Hammer (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) + Single Style - T'ai Chi Chuan (GUNNM/Battle Angel Alita) (Free) → (-100) Roll 99 (0): Quality → Tailor Made (Career Model) (0-100) → (-100)

Did I miss a roll somewhere? If not, and if my math checks out, what happened there, and was this ever addressed? I am confused by this.

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I think he explained that the points are based on the amount he wrote on the rough draft not the amount after he edits it.

 

[sonicyoash]

I think he explained that the points are based on the amount he wrote on the rough draft not the amount after he edits it.

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No, if I was counting by posted chapter word count it would be way off. Instead, I counted by how many times he rolled for a Perk, with each time adding 100 to the banked points and then seeing if that can afford the perk. Using the times it's explicitly stated in story that a Perk cost exactly as many points as he had (such as with Workaholic) as a benchmark to make sure the points were adding up correctly (it can't cost exactly as many points as he has if he has any points leftover afterall), the math checks out up until that point, and no matter how many times I double checked my math or check the chapters, I can't see where he got that extra 100 points. So I am asking to be sure.

 

[Transreal Cloud]

Joe's noble phantasm let's him age things for basically no cost right? I wonder what happens when you combine that with heretical adaptation

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My understanding is that heretical adaptation adapts with use not time.

Did I miss a roll somewhere? If not, and if my math checks out, what happened there, and was this ever addressed? I am confused by this.

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In the early chapters Lord often added points between chapters as a result of edits, there's some discussion of this in the comments on Ao3 if you dig for it.

 

[Maelger]

My understanding is that heretical adaptation adapts with use not time.

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It does. I guess someone could get confused by the recent dust transmutation but that adaptation came to improve the continuous effect (increased duration when it's normally instant or short effects).

 

[sonicyoash]

In the early chapters Lord often added points between chapters as a result of edits, there's some discussion of this in the comments on Ao3 if you dig for it.

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Okay, that makes sense. Thanks, that was really bugging me. I'll make note of it in my rolls tracker. Also, just want to point out:
Roll 69 (300): Crafting → High-Frequency Manufacturer (Metal Gear Rising) (300-300) → (0)
The 69th roll of this story acquired a Perk based around giving long, hard things the ability to vibrate... nice.

*Edit: Found it:
@LordRoustabout on Chapter 25: 20 Offensive AO3: "He has 100 points banked going into the next chapter. More points are earned based on word count (1 point per 20 words) and a roll is made every 2000 words. So the first roll in the next chapter could net him up to a 200 point ability. If the roll lands on a power that's to expensive the points are banked for the next roll. Getting a 600 point power takes five failed rolls in a row just to bank the required points."

I'll be sure to also check for that stuff when the rolls don't add up if all else fails.

 

[Whamodyne]

So Lord has mentioned many times that the Somers Rock meeting will be "the season finale" and that things will be different going forward after that. What do you think will be different?

Now that he has an anti-Simurgh charm that he trusts.

I'm thinking, food/health care/clothing/shelter for everyone in BB.

If Joe gets wind of Commissioner Murphy, he might go to Roy and work out a deal to help the city without involving the PRT. Like the PRT wakes up one day and suddenly all the burned down/destroyed buildings have been replaced with tasteful Art Deco apartments, the city handles passing out the keys.

The hospitals get a large supply of the red healing potion. The good stuff.

 

[Slayer 10321]

So I've just finished watching the new Dune movie and (it was amazing!), what I'm currently most curious about is how will it affect the perks related to the setting they're from? Will the movie inspire @LordRoustabout to incorporate more Dune tech or references into his writing? How will it effect Joe?